Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hype?

[KennyPowers]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

As example, at ShaneCo a 1.01ct Triple Excellent Ideal Cut (not Shane Classic), GIA certified, G color, SI2 clarity, 1.4 HCA score for $6300. The clarity is of some concern but if it is eye-clean, I do not see much on James Allen, BlueNile, or even PriceScope that is priced lower than $300-$400 below this price which is a marginal gain.

In the end, do I risk buying online for marginal savings but better selection or do I stick with ShaneCo, get their warranties and find the best option that suits my needs even if it is outside my criterion?

I appologize for the lengthiness of this post but diamond shopping is a daunting task .
Thank you for any help or advice!

this for example, would be a superior choice IMO for less money. I bought my stone from whiteflash and their service and quality is excellent. I am local to them and was able to see the stones in person. my stone is an expert selection as well, and I am very happy and the quality is as good or better than anything ive seen. EDIT : not saying its the best diamond ever, but making the point that I am a very particular guy and I was impressed with the quality and felt like I was getting really good value.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2972977.htm

or

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3144244.htm

personally, Si1 was my bottom line, Si2 typically has noticeable impurities and that price is too high IMO.

here are some choices if you can amp up the budget.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045735.htm

or

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3137130.htm

Bottom line, IMO as an amateur buyer who was in the exact same position as you not long ago, no chance id go with shaneco. the price is NOT competitive and the documentation is nowhere near an AGS certified expert selection or ACA from whiteflash. Good old gold and some other vendors also have great documentation.

good luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

I don't know if Shaneco's in-store selection is the same as that found on their website.
I went to their website. Many of the diamonds had no certification listed. It was not possible to search by cut grade. Most of the stones appeared to be sub-par. There seemed to be none of the tools available that we use to help judge the quality of diamonds, except for certification reports.

This one might be an exception, in terms of quality:



Sorry.

wow - I think this is a definite Freddy diamond!
What a gorgeous plot of stuff - it looks like a sky-map.

It really does Jimmi. I have a map of the heavens from 1953 and it's great, much better than the Ipad app, which although is useful, I prefer to study the stars the old fashioned way. That plot does look like a winter's night sky, it even has it's own bear constellation at 10 o'clock, looks like a flying bear with his arms outstretched.

 

[BrilliantDummie]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Ok, sifting through the volume of replies I would like to address the suggested diamonds one at a time.
I list the following by: price - ct. weight - color - clarity - certification - cut/symmetry/polish.
I will include the original ShaneCo diamond I mentioned in here just for comparison to the suggested diamonds.
After the list I will put some explanations to my rationale.

0. ShaneCo.
$6220 - 1.01ct - G - SI2 - GIA cert. - GIA 3X
1. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-322695
$6650 - 1.01ct – G – SI2 - GIA cert. - Ex/VG/Ex
2. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.90-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-262283
$5440 – 0.90ct – G – VS2 - GIA cert - Ex/VG/Ex
3. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.12-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-318569
$6610 – 1.12ct – H – SI2 AGS cert - AGS0
4. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11574/
SOLD - 0.94ct – G – VS2 – AGS cert - AGS0
5. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5066273-1.02-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5066273&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
$6855 - 1.02ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
6. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.96-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-328353
$6150 - 0.96ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
7. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-default&id=20
$5042 – 0.94ct – H – SI2 - GIA cert - Ex/Ex/VG
8. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12116/
$5531 - 0.96ct – H – SI1 – AGS cert - AGS0
9. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2972977.htm
$6200 - 0.90ct – H – VS2 – AGS cert - AGS0
10. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3144244.htm
$5995 - 0.90ct – G – VS2 – AGS cert - AGS0
11. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045735.htm
Too expensive
12. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3137130.htm
Too expensive

Of all the multiple suggestions mentioned so far, here are my comments.
1. Not good. The ShaneCo diamond is the same weight, color, and clarity while being a GIA 3X and costing $400 less.
2. Not good. #8 provides far better value.
3. Not good. #5 is better for the money.
4. Already sold so cannot comment on value.
5. Excellent value, slightly above my price range but definitely worth considering. HCA score of 1.0.
6. Excellent value. HCA score of 0.8.
7. Not good. Not ideal, poor clarity and #8 is much better.
8. Good value, AGS0 is great but HCA grades it at 3.3.
9. Too expensive for such a small stone, #6 seems like better value
10. Seems like good value but I would preffer to go a little higher in size, atleast 0.95ct.
11/12. Too expensive, far above my budget

Out of 12 suggested stones it seems I have only 2 to 3 that are of good value.
5. From B2C $6855 - 1.02ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
6. From J-A $6150 - 0.96ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
8. From GOG $5531 - 0.96ct – H – SI1 – AGS cert - AGS0

Just to add to the mix, 2 more stones form ShaneCo that I have found.
$7020 - 1.01ct - G - SI1 - GIA 3X Shane Classic
$6150 - 0.90 - G - VS2 - GIA 3X Shane Classic

Conclusions:
Looking at WF, I have not seen a single stone that really offered good value. They are either overpriced, compared to other online vendors, or same price as ShaneCo especially looking at the 0.90ct stones above. Seems like an online ShaneCo that offers more "flash" than value.

The 1.02ct diamond from B2C is $150 cheaper than the 1.01ct diamond from ShaneCo but I do trade off color for clarity. But on basic characteristics I do not see a huge difference.

The 0.96 diamonds from J-A and GOG are interesting. GOG is definitely cheaper but leaves me with many questions on SI1 and HCA scores. The J-A diamond seems great but I feel like it should be closer in price to the GOG diamond since the GOG diamond is AGS0 (premium cost) but only one clarity grade lower.

From the current selection, I would be torn between the B2C 1.02ct., the ShaneCo 1.01 ct., and the J-A 0.96ct.
I still see no explanation why an AGS0 diamond scores badly on the HCA? HCA is not a selection tool but rather a disqualification tool. And based on the AGS0 dimensions of the GOG 0.96ct diamond, it should be disqualified.

If anyone could find more diamonds in the same ranges as the 3 that are left from my sleection, I could really make the right choise. I would see an ideal value being a 1.00 ct. G - VS2 - GIA 3X / AGS0 for about $6500. That would present fatastic value and so far the B2C 1.02ct is the closest to it but I would love to see more options of the same quality.

P.S. As I try to be unbiased, from what I can see ShaneCo is far from being out of the race. They are still quite competitive in price and value. It is the selection they have that trully suffers. Even still, I am amazed that I can find stones that come very close to those offered here from online vendors.

 

[teobdl]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

BD--I haven't gone line by line through your analysis, but I agree with the sentiment that buying online isn't universally cheaper. I have seen some better prices in person for great diamonds, but they didn't have the same return and upgrade policies.

Online does give you the biggest combined inventory to sift through. If you really know what you're doing, you can find those diamonds that fit squarely in the category you're looking for without overpaying in any single area.

The price war among different vendors tends to go in waves--sometimes GOG and WF do have cheaper diamonds, but by virtue of their additional services and lower volume than drop shippers, they will almost always be more expensive. B2C, bluenile, JA, solomon bros, and Ritani seem to have the best prices. But of those, I think only JA, Ritani, and B2C can give you additional information to help you make a truly informed decision.

I've been crafting a kind of guide to bargain hunting, and without going too deep into it, you have to commit to limiting your search to your lowest acceptable level in every category--color, clarity, cut-- and maximizing carat while staying under budget. If you go up in even one of the C's, you are almost definitely overpaying.

Generally, eye clean H SI1-2 with near superideal optics will maximize carat without sacrificing anything (including your cash). Going up any more in color, clarity, or cut is a mind-clean issue. Can you see a difference between a near superideal and superideal? Maybe, but it won't make much of a difference. It's the same question as whether you can see a difference between D and H--yes, you can see a difference, but only if you are super critical about it.

Buying online doesn't necessarily give you the best price: being smart about what you're looking for does. You can then go out and compare using a huge combined inventory with the PS database and maybe your local dealer if you want to expand it even more.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

I had a long post typed in buy my PC ate it so I'll just get to the facts below.

Ok, sifting through the volume of replies I would like to address the suggested diamonds one at a time.
I list the following by: price - ct. weight - color - clarity - certification - cut/symmetry/polish.
I will include the original ShaneCo diamond I mentioned in here just for comparison to the suggested diamonds.
After the list I will put some explanations to my rationale.

0. ShaneCo.
$6220 - 1.01ct - G - SI2 - GIA cert. - GIA 3X
1. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-322695
$6650 - 1.01ct – G – SI2 - GIA cert. - Ex/VG/Ex
2. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.90-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-262283
$5440 – 0.90ct – G – VS2 - GIA cert - Ex/VG/Ex
3. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.12-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-318569
$6610 – 1.12ct – H – SI2 AGS cert - AGS0
4. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11574/
SOLD - 0.94ct – G – VS2 – AGS cert - AGS0
5. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5066273-1.02-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5066273&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
$6855 - 1.02ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
6. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.96-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-328353
$6150 - 0.96ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
7. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-default&id=20
$5042 – 0.94ct – H – SI2 - GIA cert - Ex/Ex/VG
8. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12116/
$5531 - 0.96ct – H – SI1 – AGS cert - AGS0
9. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2972977.htm
$6200 - 0.90ct – H – VS2 – AGS cert - AGS0
10. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3144244.htm
$5995 - 0.90ct – G – VS2 – AGS cert - AGS0
11. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045735.htm
Too expensive
12. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3137130.htm
Too expensive

Of all the multiple suggestions mentioned so far, here are my comments.
1. Not good. The ShaneCo diamond is the same weight, color, and clarity while being a GIA 3X and costing $400 less.
2. Not good. #8 provides far better value.
3. Not good. #5 is better for the money.
4. Already sold so cannot comment on value.
5. Excellent value, slightly above my price range but definitely worth considering. HCA score of 1.0.
6. Excellent value. HCA score of 0.8.
7. Not good. Not ideal, poor clarity and #8 is much better.
8. Good value, AGS0 is great but HCA grades it at 3.3.
What numbers did you enter into the HCA tool to get a 3.3?
9. Too expensive for such a small stone, #6 seems like better value
10. Seems like good value but I would preffer to go a little higher in size, atleast 0.95ct.
11/12. Too expensive, far above my budget

Out of 12 suggested stones it seems I have only 2 to 3 that are of good value.
5. From B2C $6855 - 1.02ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
6. From J-A $6150 - 0.96ct – H – VS2 – GIA cert - GIA 3X
8. From GOG $5531 - 0.96ct – H – SI1 – AGS cert - AGS0

Just to add to the mix, 2 more stones form ShaneCo that I have found.
We can't really comment on these without the exact numbers (table, depth, crown and pavilion angles). Make sure the SI1 is
eye-clean to your standards.
$7020 - 1.01ct - G - SI1 - GIA 3X Shane Classic
$6150 - 0.90 - G - VS2 - GIA 3X Shane Classic

Conclusions:
Looking at WF, I have not seen a single stone that really offered good value. They are either overpriced, compared to other online vendors, or same price as ShaneCo especially looking at the 0.90ct stones above. Seems like an online ShaneCo that offers more "flash" than value.
ACA stones from WF have been pre-vetted and have all the information you need to know that you are getting a high quality
stone. AGS000, aset image, idealscope image and hearts image are things you may call "flash" but we use this information
to evaluate stones. This information cost money to produce. If you have this information for the Shane &Co stones please
post it so we can help you evaluate those stones. WF may not be for someone looking for a "great deal" but more for someone
who wants an Ideal stone with all the information needed to support it.

The 1.02ct diamond from B2C is $150 cheaper than the 1.01ct diamond from ShaneCo but I do trade off color for clarity. But on basic characteristics I do not see a huge difference.

The 0.96 diamonds from J-A and GOG are interesting. GOG is definitely cheaper but leaves me with many questions on SI1 and HCA scores. The J-A diamond seems great but I feel like it should be closer in price to the GOG diamond since the GOG diamond is AGS0 (premium cost) but only one clarity grade lower.

From the current selection, I would be torn between the B2C 1.02ct., the ShaneCo 1.01 ct., and the J-A 0.96ct.
I still see no explanation why an AGS0 diamond scores badly on the HCA? HCA is not a selection tool but rather a disqualification tool. And based on the AGS0 dimensions of the GOG 0.96ct diamond, it should be disqualified.

If anyone could find more diamonds in the same ranges as the 3 that are left from my sleection, I could really make the right choise. I would see an ideal value being a 1.00 ct. G - VS2 - GIA 3X / AGS0 for about $6500. That would present fatastic value and so far the B2C 1.02ct is the closest to it but I would love to see more options of the same quality.

If you are evaluating any stone below VS1 (from anywhere), be sure to look at it in as many different lighting conditions as
possible and as many different angles as possible.
P.S. As I try to be unbiased, from what I can see ShaneCo is far from being out of the race. They are still quite competitive in price and value. It is the selection they have that trully suffers. Even still, I am amazed that I can find stones that come very close to those offered here from online vendors.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

I used the PS search engine to search for over 1 carats, G, VS1 or 2 ideal cut GIA or AGS for under $6500...

ZERO...came up so I think that's a deal that's going to be hard to find.

(But, you can check back every day and see what comes up!)

 

[teobdl]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Run the HCA on these. You can also drop down to H.

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results?size__gte=1.00&size__lte=9.03&lab[0]=GIA&lab[1]=AGS&search=&depth__gte=58&depth__lte=63&table__gte=53.0&table__lte=59.0&pair=&is_advansed=1&shape=BR&color__gte=D&color__lte=G&clarity__gte=1&clarity__lte=18&price__gte=0&price__lte=6500&hca_index__gte=0&hca_index__lte=10&symmetry__lte=7&symmetry__gte=5&polish__lte=7&polish__gte=5&fluor_strength__lte=4&fluor_strength__gte=0&type_color=1&type_search=1&country=US&country_long=United+States&region=MA&city=Boston&vendor__country__contains=&vendor__region__contains=&l_country=us&l_region=MA&latitude=42.3583984375&longitude=-71.0597991943&color_m=G-&color_p=H%2B&vendor__latitude__gte=-180&vendor__latitude__lte=180&vendor__longitude__gte=-180&vendor__longitude__lte=180&vlt_g_ct=-180&vlt_l_ct=180&vln_g_ct=-180&vln_l_ct=180&search_key=sk_session_3367&f=3


Check preloved for things close to 1 ct (.80 and up).

 

[BrilliantDummie]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

tyty333 and teobdl thank you for your advice, you make some very good points I need to consider.

Mainly, online vendors truly do offer more information. I simply wanted to move away from the suggestions of some posters that online shopping is a god-send and is the only way to fly, since I see local vendors (ShaneCo being one of the expensive ones) have somewhat similar offerings, with one caveat of limited information. I will get in touch with my contact at ShaneCo and see how far they are willing to examine their diamonds whether IdealScope or otherwise, it is something I never asked of them to do.

I am having a tough time as you can see teobdl suggests even SI grades are fine for purchase while tyty333 is saying anything below VS1 should be highly scrutinized. I know most of this is due to personal preference but is sticking to VS2 a good consensus or is there really no right answer to this clarity dilemma?

In general I am looking for the best deal with the best information and best value.
So far, information is hands down, best to be found online. Honestly, ShaneCo has the best Trade-In/Trade-Up/Return policy and the advantage of being local. With ShaneCo I can even put the diamond on LayAway for 6 months, come in whenever I want to look at it or compare it and still have 60 days after I pay it off to return it, no questions asked plus they cover any work done on the diamond if you buy from them (which can be a headache with insurance companies and claims etc.). Pricing is somewhat up in the air with Internet being about 5-10% better in most cases. In addiiton the selection online is by far the best.

P.S.
The AGS0 stone #8 I entered the exact values on the page into the HCA (Table Percentage: 57.00%, Depth Percentage: 62.20%, Crown ∠: 34.40°, Pavilion ∠: 41.20°) which leads to an HCA score of 3.3. I ahve to add to this that 4/5 stones that I see with AGs0 have poor scores on HCA of 2.5 or higher. Its rare for me to see an AGS0 so far in my searches that recieve good HCA scores. I honestly still do not have a good explanation from anyone as to the reason for this occurence.

P.S.S. The ideal combination I described ofcourse is wishful thinking, I realise the real world is more complicated and ofcourse am prepared to fight to get as close to ideal as possible. I obsess over details, research, data, options, etc. And am determined to find that one stone that will not only satisfy my semi-OCD brain but my future wife as well. Although to be honest I doubt she will be able to tell the difference between and 0.95 I-SI2 and a 1.05 G-VS1. For me though, I need to know that I am getting her the best I can find.

 

[teobdl]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Discrepancy between AGS and HCA is not surprising. AGS looks at the individual diamond, HCA does not.

Copy from a previous post I wrote a while back: "HCA is an experimentally and mathematically created calculator that helps you eliminate likely poor performers, and potentially predict the characteristics of light return. You input 4 measurements from a stone with 57 facets. It tells you nothing about the symmetry of the actual facets of the diamond in question, which is critical to light performance and character of the stone."

Lots of times, AGS diamonds will be in the 2's on the HCA. This is mostly a function of the creator's preference for lower crown angles and some other aspects of diamond cutting and diamond performance when they're dirty. He (Garry) is coming out with a revised HCA that may reflect a large proportion of people's preference for higher crown angles (or at least angles that are more disposed for fire).

I'm short on time, but I encourage you to use the search tool on PS to learn more about how certain SI1 and 2 inclusions might affect brilliance of the diamond. Search Good Old Gold's website for more information. There can be issues, but it's mostly fine if you're smart about it ("clarity grade based on clouds not shown" is not acceptable; twinning wisps near the girdle are fine, and even under the table usually fine; surface graining is fine; crystals under the table are usually bad; feathers near the table are bad, internal graining can be weird, etc etc). It's more work to find good SI's and 2's (duh) but they're the best deal.

 

[TC1987]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

$5500-$6500 but I am willing to go higher for better qulity. I am trying to get as close to 1.00ct as possible but it is ok if I am under. Also ok if I am over the 100 point mark Looking for something in G-H color, VS1-SI1 clarity, GIA certified Triple Excellent, good HCA score (below a 2.0),

If I were going to pull a price out of the air without looking at the database, I would estimate a 1ct G SI1 - VS1, superideal, totally eyeclean, to be about $7000 - $8000 or more, not $5500 -$6500.

In general, you get what you pay for with diamonds. There have been young men who came here are griped about the prices and fought with us over the "overpriced" diamonds and the recommended vendors and why things like an AGS 000 cut grade and/or an upgrade/tradein/buyback policy might be of value. In the end, you get to decide what you want to buy. If you can't find a suitable 1ct to meet the $5500-$6500 limit, then either drop down to .9ct or increase the budget. 1ct is one of those magical price points where the price per ct may be higher than the price per ct for, say, a .9ct-.99ct stone. You also have to start scrutinizing cut and proportions because some of those 1ct stones are cut to retain weight and get at or above the 1ct mark. As people pointed out, there are nuances as well as obvious things that make two apparently "same" diamonds (on paper) look different in person, and that may account for why one is maybe priced a lot lower than the other.

So, don't bicker and fight with Pricescope. Pricescope is interested in the best performance, and the best-performing and most eyeclean stones are generally priced accordingly.

 

[KenD]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

I ran the HCA tool on #8.
Table: 56.4
Depth: 62.4
Crown angle: 34.5
Pavilion angle: 41.0

I got an HCA score of 1.9.
Can somebody check my work please?

 

[sarahb]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

$5500-$6500 but I am willing to go higher for better qulity. I am trying to get as close to 1.00ct as possible but it is ok if I am under. Also ok if I am over the 100 point mark Looking for something in G-H color, VS1-SI1 clarity, GIA certified Triple Excellent, good HCA score (below a 2.0),

If I were going to pull a price out of the air without looking at the database, I would estimate a 1ct G SI1 - VS1, superideal, totally eyeclean, to be about $7000 - $8000 or more, not $5500 -$6500.

In general, you get what you pay for with diamonds. There have been young men who came here are griped about the prices and fought with us over the "overpriced" diamonds and the recommended vendors and why things like an AGS 000 cut grade and/or an upgrade/tradein/buyback policy might be of value. In the end, you get to decide what you want to buy. If you can't find a suitable 1ct to meet the $5500-$6500 limit, then either drop down to .9ct or increase the budget. 1ct is one of those magical price points where the price per ct may be higher than the price per ct for, say, a .9ct-.99ct stone. You also have to start scrutinizing cut and proportions because some of those 1ct stones are cut to retain weight and get at or above the 1ct mark. As people pointed out, there are nuances as well as obvious things that make two apparently "same" diamonds (on paper) look different in person, and that may account for why one is maybe priced a lot lower than the other.

So, don't bicker and fight with Pricescope. Pricescope is interested in the best performance, and the best-performing and most eyeclean stones are generally priced accordingly.

+1.

Hind sight is 20/20 vision, & invaluable when it comes to expensive purchases. I wish we had found PS at the beginning of our journey.

 

[BrilliantDummie]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

KenD, the #8 link is
8. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12116/
And I got different numbers there than the ones you posted. Are you sure we are looking at the same link?

TC1987
I understand your view point and being that my upper limit is $6500 I realise I may have to bump it up to $7000 but playing with PS search tool here is what I found so far.

From B2C 0.95 H VS2 62.7% 56.0% GIA 3X HCA-1.7 $5626
From Solomon Brothers 0.95 H VS2 62.7% 56.0% GIA 3X HCA-1.7 $5834

From Solomon Brothers 1.01 H VS2 61.3% 56.0% GIA 3X HCA-1.3 $6625
From B2C 1.01 H VS2 58.8% 60.0% GIA 3X HCA-1.3 $6633
From B2C 1.02 H VS2 60.7% 58.0% GIA 3X HCA-1.0 $6650

From the selection above I think with enough dedicated searching I can find a stone somewhere in the middle of those values. Interestingly I saw none with AGS certification in this search criterion. Do any of these in particular jump out at you guys that warrant further investigation or immediate dissmissal simply looknig at the numbers above? For example the 1.01ct from B2C has a pretty large table and a somewhat shallow depth which might warrant dismissal, or am I jumping the gun on that one?

I appologize if I came off slightly harsh in my evaluations of certain statements made here, I do not mean to bicker. I think my overanalysing and back-and-forth indecision is being misconstrued as offensive and I oppologise if I have ffended anyone. I simply try to extract the best information possible and keep my options open. It is often hard for me to make such decisions when so many uncertainties are presented and trade-offs have to be made. I try to live without regrets and the engagement ring will have to be one of those things that I wil never regret the purchase.

 

[KenD]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

KenD, the #8 link is
8. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12116/
And I got different numbers there than the ones you posted. Are you sure we are looking at the same link?

I think these are the correct numbers:

 

[KenD]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

BrilliantD is this your ShaneCo reference stone?
If so, can any of the more experienced people here, offer an opinion as to the likelihood of it being eyeclean> (i'm guessing it won't be.)



Below is the full report:

 

[BrilliantDummie]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

KenD, yes that is the one from ShaneCo I used as a reference starting point.

 

[John P]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

KenD, yes that is the one from ShaneCo I used as a reference starting point.

There is no way to determine eye-clean from the clarity plot, full stop. Only someone with the diamond in hand can address it.

For what it's worth, the GIA proportions (admittedly averaged and rounded) of 60, 41.0, 33.0 are a candidate for AGS0 in performance. More data is needed to confirm that, but I have to say the basic numbers are promising.

 

[KenD]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

KenD, yes that is the one from ShaneCo I used as a reference starting point.

There is no way to determine eye-clean from the clarity plot, full stop. Only someone with the diamond in hand can address it.

Thank you. Eventually this will get through my head (or what ever the appropriate cliché is).

 

[tyty333]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

I ran the HCA tool on #8.
Table: 56.4
Depth: 62.4
Crown angle: 34.5
Pavilion angle: 41.0

I got an HCA score of 1.9.
Can somebody check my work please?

That's what I got...not sure where BD got his numbers.

 

[teobdl]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

The numbers came from GOG's reading of the diamond (probably Sarin scan). On the right hand side of the link. It says PA is 41.2, not 41.0.

 

[teobdl]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Those prices are really high. You can get 6.1-6.2 mm H SI1 ideal cut for less than 5k. Just go just under 0.9 and prices are about 1k cheaper.

 

[BrilliantDummie]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Hey teobdl, I got my numbers straight off of GOG website on the right hand column and the link they have there to the Sarin (AGS PGS Results on their site) has the same numbers.

This, I would say, is a very interesting find. By the AGS report the numbers are
Depth 62.4%
Table 56.4%
Crown 34.5
Pavillion 41.0
These metrics lead to an HCA score of 1.9

By the AGS PGS Results or the Sarin report or the GOG website, the numebr are
Depth 62.2%
Table 57%
Crown 34.4
Pavillion 41.2
These metric lead to an HCA score of 3.3

Every single metric is off on one or the other. So which stone am I really looking at? To me, a 3.3 on HCA is definite reject where a 1.9 is worth a much closer look. What do you guys say about this? When I do quick diamond searches I look at the first set of parameters and move on if they are not below atleast a 2.5 HCA. As such I would have dismissed this diamond immediately. Help me out guys, am I reading in to this too much? Should I be looking at every single link, report, and image for every diamond when sifting through tens of diamonds? How can I guarantee that their charts, plots, and maps of clarity are accurate and are not misrepresented due to measurement technique just like this incident?

Realistically, an online vendor provides tons of extra information wheras local vendors usually provide only the AGS or GIA report and not much more. So what is the use of all this online information if they cannot even get the measurements correct? How do I know I am looking at the correct representation of the diamond in questions for the more complicated things like Ideal-Scope, ASET, etc.

I am sorry for such a sudden doubt storm but maybe I am simply uneducated about Sarin reports or just how GOG puts out their metrics but honestly seeing this discrepancy made me wonder about all other things. Honestly guys am I just benig paranoid about making sure that everythign is perfect or does this make anyone else wonder?

 

[teobdl]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

They are fair questions, but I would respond that Good Old Gold is a super reputable place. It's worth asking them why there is a discrepancy.

It also brings up some important points about the HCA and judging diamonds online:
1. For some, the HCA is a flawed methodology that cannot accurately capture diamonds on the edge of being really nice. I think that is an overly harsh statement, but it does take some experience to know what input variable(s) is/are driving a poor score. If you know why it's not scoring well, you you can make a judgement about whether you trust the output (always a binary accept/reject).
2. Very small differences in proportions in combination with other small differences can make a huge difference in how a diamond looks
3. You always need more information that an HCA number.

That said, you already have the best important information about that diamond you can find online: AGS grading report, ASET, hearts image, and Sarin scan with estimated AGS cut grade. All these show that the diamond is great. A next step is to look at it in motion. Diamonds must be seen.

 

[Sunstorm]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

OP, do remember that the people here try to offer you sound, educated advice to protect you as a customer and to assist you in making you as happy as possible. Also, please remember that when it comes to diamonds in general there is no such thing as a deal or a bargain, there is a reason for a lower price. Generally when all other things are made as equal as possible the difference is in the cut. Nothing will rival the fire, and thus the life of an ideal cut stone like ACA or CBI, there are others out there but these are the ones I can think of first when it comes to online retail. Also, GOG like others suggested have some really nice stones and special cuts too. You should take this into consideration, this is the reason for the difference in price. If you have never seen a truly outstanding cut then you may never know the difference but once you have seen such a stone, you may never want something else and you understand why there is a premium price on such stringent cuts.

 

[John P]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Every single metric is off on one or the other. So which stone am I really looking at?

BrilliantD, it's the same diamond.

The reason for two sets of numbers is two different scans.
* AGSL made a 3D scan of the diamond to arrive at the numbers on the AGS Report.
* The seller made their own 3D scan of the diamond in order to run it through the PGS software they have onsite.

It's possible the seller's scanner was near the end of calibration that day, there was a slight orientation issue or even detritus on the scanning-stage.

The "numbers of authority" are typically considered those on the grading report (with the exception of GIA reports, where a local scan provides non-rounded data). And, as others have said, the actual grading report - particularly one from AGSL - and the images provided trump HCA.

In that sense, you have an AGSL ASET imprint, a PGS ASET simulation and an actual ASET photo to examine, all for the same diamond. It may be useful to know the environmental differences between each:

1. The AGS ASET imprint is produced with no backlighting (meaning leakage is black).
2. The PGS ASET simulation is calculated with backlighting (meaning leakage is white), thus somewhat harsher.
3. The actual ASET photo has stronger backlighting (meaning leakage is white and other colors lighten), thus most harsh.

All three pieces of information agree, as you can see slight brillianteering adjustments in two areas. These come with increasing graduation as expected, given the different environments, from Report imprint to PGS simulation to actual image. It should help to have so many views, and this specimen serves to show the different type of information you receive from ASET, as opposed to Ideal-Scope or DXR.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[BrilliantDummie]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Thank you John Pollard that was actually the exact explanation I was looking for. I am an Engineer by trade and love to understand not just the "what" about a subject but also the "how" and the "why". I previously used the HCA tool simply to narrow down the immense amount of options available to a few choices but I see that may not have been the best conclusion from studying the HCA. I am moving over to using PS as a selection tool instead .

On another note, I see WF ACA and CBI and other branded diamonds mentioned here quite often. Knowing I am not a diamond expert and that my girlfriend is not a huge jewelry fanatic (this wil be her first and most likely only ring ever, she does not wear earrings, rarely wears bracelets, and only wears pendants with expensive gem-stones on occasions). Is it wise for me to look at such branded stones? Will I see a difference between an AGS0 (or GIA 3X) if you guys approve it on here and an ACA branded stone if I ever only see one of them? I understand this is more of a personal preference where some poeple are willing to pay a premium for even 1% increase in sparkle or fire but I think an amateur like myself or a non-jewelry fan like my girlfriend would never notice such subtleties even if you put the stones next to each other. So is there a point fo me to even look at branded options or should I just stick to general ideal cuts from GIA or AGS and take my pick from that? Most forums suggest AGS000 as the top of the line without going overboard. My hopes really are to get it right the first time around, I am not really a big fan of the buy->return->repeat process.

Thanks everyone!
I know I am a pain to deal with sometimes but I honestly try my best to question every single thing, with respect and humility, in order to learn more and be 100% confident in my purchases knowing exactly why I made the purchase.

 

[John P]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

BrilliantD, you're welcome.

Be careful: Engineers, architects, mathematicians and musicians can get deliriously lost in this stuff. I sure have. My first degree was in science but I'm a long-time percussionist and educator. The math and beauty of diamond performance appeal to me in the same way as the structure and artistry of music - and I enjoy discussing it, as do many others here.

I am moving over to using PS as a selection tool instead

Excellent choice.

 

[teobdl]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Best bang for your buck...
probably this: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.22-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-320035
maybe this: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-275239

 

[Lorelei]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Thank you John Pollard that was actually the exact explanation I was looking for. I am an Engineer by trade and love to understand not just the "what" about a subject but also the "how" and the "why". I previously used the HCA tool simply to narrow down the immense amount of options available to a few choices but I see that may not have been the best conclusion from studying the HCA. I am moving over to using PS as a selection tool instead .

On another note, I see WF ACA and CBI and other branded diamonds mentioned here quite often. Knowing I am not a diamond expert and that my girlfriend is not a huge jewelry fanatic (this wil be her first and most likely only ring ever, she does not wear earrings, rarely wears bracelets, and only wears pendants with expensive gem-stones on occasions). Is it wise for me to look at such branded stones? Will I see a difference between an AGS0 (or GIA 3X) if you guys approve it on here and an ACA branded stone if I ever only see one of them? I understand this is more of a personal preference where some poeple are willing to pay a premium for even 1% increase in sparkle or fire but I think an amateur like myself or a non-jewelry fan like my girlfriend would never notice such subtleties even if you put the stones next to each other. So is there a point fo me to even look at branded options or should I just stick to general ideal cuts from GIA or AGS and take my pick from that? Most forums suggest AGS000 as the top of the line without going overboard. My hopes really are to get it right the first time around, I am not really a big fan of the buy->return->repeat process.

Thanks everyone!
I know I am a pain to deal with sometimes but I honestly try my best to question every single thing, with respect and humility, in order to learn more and be 100% confident in my purchases knowing exactly why I made the purchase.

Hi BD,

John explained it beautifully as he always does! Also you are not a pain but a smart shopper, we get a lot of engineers here that really enjoy the nuts and bolts of diamond purchasing, I grew up with a close relative that was an engineer so I 'get it'! With your purchase options there are a few ways to look at it. If you went with a branded cut and didn't want to put a lot of work into getting the best cut stone possible, and you wanted an upgrade package that was generous in case for the future, your 'home runners' are a branded CBI, ACA, BGSI, or GOG selected top cut as examples might be the best way to go. If you don't mind putting in a bit more work, then AGS0 and GIA Excellent will get you in the ballpark, then you will just need to evaluate each on their own desirable visual and physical properties in order to make a decision - especially with GIA Ex, you can of course always ask for suggestions or post the details of any diamonds you may be interested in here for opinions.

 

[BrilliantDummie]

Re: Best bang for my buck. Is buying online worth all the hy

Thanks for the engineering understanding Lorelei and John,
Given a larger time frame I would spend the next half a year pouring over angles and percentage values but seeing as I want to make the proposal next month, I am running slightly pressed for time and will have to make due with the information at hand and all of your hard work fellow PSers.

Your response is pretty much what I expected to hear. I do not mind putting in the leg work to find the best out of the GIA/AGS Ideals and I think that is the direction I want to head in as of now. If I ever change my mind, finding a good diamond in a brand should be super quick. With the ucrrent course of action, I cannot seem to find any really good guidelines abuot narrowing down my selections other than having to post here about each diamond I find. The criterion for table/depth % and crown/pavillion angles seem to be quite wide and there are exceptions to each rule. The HCA tool is, as of now, no use to me really. Would the best course of action be me looking at the diamond pictures ASETs, IS images, etc., then post here whatever appeals to me most and have you guys help me pick the best? Are there some criterion I could use to narrow down a search in between the ideal ranges of AGS0 and GIA 3X? My previous post on general angles and % values was somewhat dismissed as being either too constrictive or not inclusive enough.