Best way to verify color origin

[T L]

So before you leave any feedback I would strongly suggest getting it tested by a lab.

+1.

I don't think an appraiser can tell with standard equipment if a stone is irradiated.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Davi - I'm not sure that an appraiser has the equipment to test for irradiation so I'm pretty sure this is just a guess. I have both irradiated and natural yellows and some I have both which fluor. I have to say that when I first saw yours, my first feeling was that it was natural. I've also bought from that seller and find him to be upfront and honest. So before you leave any feedback I would strongly suggest getting it tested by a lab.

She has a spectroscope, but, we didn't run the stone through it as in her experience, the stone was too intense with a slightly chalky fluor to be natural. She didn't charge me for the visit today, and we did talk for an hour or so about gems and buying smartly. She even put my newest blue spinel from Tan on a refractometer just to make sure it was the right RI for natural and not synthetic.

But you're right. I should just send it to GIA. No more games. I'd hate to sully the vendors reputation by a mistake. Like a second opinion by the best doctor in the world if one will.

I will message him again and tell him I'm sending it to GIA.

 

[kenny]

If the vendor lied I'd say so in my feedback.

Truth is always best.

Opps, I wrote this thinking a lab said it was irradiated, not an appraiser.

AFAIC I would not give a penny to a appraiser for this kind of service; I'd put that money towards a GIA lab report.
Paying anything to not be as sure as possible is not what I'd to.
Frankly at the price of these stones I'd just enjoy them as is with no lab report or appraisal.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

If the vendor lied I'd say so in my feedback.

Truth is always best.

Opps, I wrote this thinking a lab said it was irradiated, not an appraiser.

AFAIC I would not give a penny to a appraiser for this kind of service; I'd put that money towards a GIA lab report.
Paying anything to not be as sure as possible is not what I'd to.
Frankly at the price of these stones I'd just enjoy them as is with no lab report or appraisal.

She didn't charge me so no loss there. I only really care about whether or not the vendor misrepresented his wares. I could care less now, because I know I didn't overpay for it is in fact irradiated, but as a PS'er, I think it's good to let people know if a vendor is scrupulous or not.

 

[LD]

Davi - a couple of things if you don't mind?

For what you paid and the size of the gem I wouldn't waste money getting it tested. You've paid a fair price whether it's irradiated or not. The fact is, you've got a coloured diamond for a good price. I personally wouldn't neg the seller.

However if you feel you have to know then do send it to the GIA. I'm not sure whether I would tell the seller however. I know you don't mean it to but it could come across as a little threatening? I hope you don't mind me saying that? Why don't you just email the seller and say that because it's such a great colour you'd just like reassurance that it's a natural untreated diamond and if it isn't would he consider extending the returns period to allow you to return it (that's if you want to) or consider a partial refund?

More importantly, even if the Appraiser had used the Spectroscope that wouldn't have confirmed irradiation. If it did then we'd all have saved tons in lab fees! Having seen a ton of naturals and irradiated diamonds I generally get a feeling but there's NO WAY I would ever advise anybody based on strength of colour/chalky fluor. I do hope that the Appraiser suggested that you send it to a Lab to get confirmation and that he/she didn't categorically say that it was irradiated?

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Davi - a couple of things if you don't mind?

For what you paid and the size of the gem I wouldn't waste money getting it tested. You've paid a fair price whether it's irradiated or not. The fact is, you've got a coloured diamond for a good price. I personally wouldn't neg the seller.

However if you feel you have to know then do send it to the GIA. I'm not sure whether I would tell the seller however. I know you don't mean it to but it could come across as a little threatening? I hope you don't mind me saying that? Why don't you just email the seller and say that because it's such a great colour you'd just like reassurance that it's a natural untreated diamond and if it isn't would he consider extending the returns period to allow you to return it (that's if you want to) or consider a partial refund?

More importantly, even if the Appraiser had used the Spectroscope that wouldn't have confirmed irradiation. If it did then we'd all have saved tons in lab fees! Having seen a ton of naturals and irradiated diamonds I generally get a feeling but there's NO WAY I would ever advise anybody based on strength of colour/chalky fluor. I do hope that the Appraiser suggested that you send it to a Lab to get confirmation and that he/she didn't categorically say that it was irradiated?

I don't mind at all, This really helps me learn how to make better purchases. Gives me questions to ask myself before buying.

I really don't know what to think any more about this whole thing. I wish I would have waited to send the seller two messages in like 30 minutes saying what I said. You're right they could sound threatening. I did however say that I wouldn't leave any feedback until he replied, so hopefully we can smooth all this out.

What other tests would GIA do besides a spectroscope? Doesn't that test give a tell-tale sign of color treatment? I thought that's all they would do. After reading this_report I don't know what to think. It leaves me somewhat understanding how to test for it, but since I have no idea what those machines are, I'm no more informed than when I started.

Can I live with it if it's

a natural colored diamond. Yes.
an irradiated diamond. Yes

Can I live with not knowing for sure... probably not. It will drive me nuts every time I look at it wondering. It is such a strange color, shifting between an orangey brownish yellow to a greenish brownish yellow.

I appreciate everyone who's posted in the thread. But I think the note that's been ringing through the thread is "if you want to know know send it to GIA.

With that said, is sending it to GIA as daunting as it seems?

 

[minousbijoux]

Not at all! I just sent a stone off under a similar circumstance. If you email them, they will email you instructions. Basically, they want 1) a memo of instruction from you stating what you are sending and what you wanted it tested for, directions from you for return shipping and how much to insure it for; 2) the item plainly wrapped with no indications of origin or seller info; 3) pages 1, 6 & 7 of their online forms filled out and signed and 4) though they didn't ask me, I sent a check. I took it down to Fed Ex. One of the staffers at GIA insisted that Fed Ex insures up to $10,000 for gemstones. That was not my experience in the past and not my experience when I sent the gem the other day - they told me they cap it at $1,000, so keep that in mind in case they indicate you can get more than that. Oops, I just realized that in this case for you this probably doesn't apply , but good to know for future reference.

 

[T L]

More importantly, even if the Appraiser had used the Spectroscope that wouldn't have confirmed irradiation. If it did then we'd all have saved tons in lab fees! Having seen a ton of naturals and irradiated diamonds I generally get a feeling but there's NO WAY I would ever advise anybody based on strength of colour/chalky fluor. I do hope that the Appraiser suggested that you send it to a Lab to get confirmation and that he/she didn't categorically say that it was irradiated?

I agree. I also hope she didn't state it as fact.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Not at all! I just sent a stone off under a similar circumstance. If you email them, they will email you instructions. Basically, they want 1) a memo of instruction from you stating what you are sending and what you wanted it tested for, directions from you for return shipping and how much to insure it for; 2) the item plainly wrapped with no indications of origin or seller info; 3) pages 1, 6 & 7 of their online forms filled out and signed and 4) though they didn't ask me, I sent a check. I took it down to Fed Ex. One of the staffers at GIA insisted that Fed Ex insures up to $10,000 for gemstones. That was not my experience in the past and not my experience when I sent the gem the other day - they told me they cap it at $1,000, so keep that in mind in case they indicate you can get more than that. Oops, I just realized that in this case for you this probably doesn't apply , but good to know for future reference.

Thanks Minous! In your case how did it turn out?

TL/LD, IIRC it was stated as "I would say it's irradiated." To me, that's an opinion, a well educated opinion, but not as definitive as a GIA lab report.

 

[LD]

Davi - based on what you've said I think for peace of mind you should submit to the GIA (by the way, I agree about Fedex limits being lower than stated by the GIA but hopefully that's not a problem in this instance).

Just a FYI there are various types of spectrographs. I have a basic one that didn't cost much, going right to the way up to ones that cost a lot of money and are only available in gem labs. I suspect your Appraiser has a basic one too as these are the ones that are most commonly used.

Here's an article that you may find useful and you'll see that the process is far from simple and even gem labs can struggle - you need to be able to run a battery of tests with a number of different machines to be sure! Hope it helps!

http://www.gci-gem.com/pdf/diamond%20color%20treatments%20and%20identification.pdf

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Davi - based on what you've said I think for peace of mind you should submit to the GIA (by the way, I agree about Fedex limits being lower than stated by the GIA but hopefully that's not a problem in this instance).

Just a FYI there are various types of spectrographs. I have a basic one that didn't cost much, going right to the way up to ones that cost a lot of money and are only available in gem labs. I suspect your Appraiser has a basic one too as these are the ones that are most commonly used.

Here's an article that you may find useful and you'll see that the process is far from simple and even gem labs can struggle - you need to be able to run a battery of tests with a number of different machines to be sure! Hope it helps!

http://www.gci-gem.com/pdf/diamond%20color%20treatments%20and%20identification.pdf

Fantastic article LD! Thank you! The lab has "Calcite and Diffraction Grating " spectroscopes.

Tomorrow the stone will be off to GIA!

Thanks all for your help

 

[davi_el_mejor]

YAY! GIA says the diamond is a Fancy Deep Brownish Yellow natural diamond! I don't have the certificate yet, it was mailed today so it should be here tomorrow. I tried to look up the report on the website but none of the numbers are working


So when it comes in a lot more pictures full of love for the diamond!

 

[LD]

YAY! GIA says the diamond is a Fancy Deep Brownish Yellow natural diamond! I don't have the certificate yet, it was mailed today so it should be here tomorrow. I tried to look up the report on the website but none of the numbers are working

So when it comes in a lot more pictures full of love for the diamond!

I am so pleased for you! I just want to say that this is a fantastic learning thread. I wonder how many people in the same circumstance as you would have taken the word of an appraiser and been bamboozled by his/her use of a spectroscope? Just think, that poor Vendor could have been given negative feedback erroneously. I'm so pleased that this has a positive outcome for you and you took the steps you did.

Morale of this thread? One should never take the word of an appraiser and should only rely on a lab report (from a reputable lab). A guess is purely a guess and nothing more!

 

[T L]

Morale of this thread? One should never take the word of an appraiser and should only rely on a lab report (from a reputable lab). A guess is purely a guess and nothing more!

Isn't that a fact!!

Congrats Davi on your great news!!

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Thanks guys! Yes, when in doubt, don't rely on a guess. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to sit and chat with the appraiser, and I could see why she guessed what she guessed based on her experiences, but she is not GIA It was worth every penny to have the report.

Now that it's back home with me, here's a picture of the GIA Natural Fancy Deep Brownish Yellow .35ct diamond.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Davi,

How nice you received a good verdict from GIA. Your diamond color looks much like mine. You responded to my thread in Rocky Talky and I mentioned that GIA had said that the stone had green fluor and Rockdiamond said that was very very rare. I wonder if the vendor TL talked about was the vendor I purchased from, so that maybe we got them from the same batch(if diamonds come in batches). I asked my vendor, but he was vague when answering. Its no real matter to me. I'm very happy with my results.

LD-- I received my brown diamond. I thought it had more orange in it. I didn't like it. It was just beige. I'm not a beige person. Under my chandelier it looked sparkly, by in daylight, it did nothing for me, so back it went.
I don't have the ability to take photos so I can't participate that way. Sorry, but thanks for your encouragement and info.

HIP, HIP HURRAH. FOR FCD. Nice going Davi!

Thanks,
Annette

 

[davi_el_mejor]

SmitCompton: Bid4Desire on ebay is where I got this one and the dark green one. I wonder if they have a couple ebay stores as I've seen a few pages that have the same exact layout and verbage.