BEWARE OF SUPERBCERT

[rbjd]

Did it occur to anybody, particularly Tadashi, that the unnamed "local jeweler" he took the diamond to for inscription verification may have lied to him to try to get his business in the future. I wouldn't put it past some B&M jeweler to bad mouth an internet sale to make his own business look better.

And I'll definitely second the "shame on Tadashi" statements. How unprofessional to roast someone so unfairly in public without giving them an opportunity to work it out. And over a girdle inscription. Give me a break! It's probably a gorgeous diamond, and your biggest complaint is that you can't see the inscription? Sounds like you've got some soul searching to do Tadashi.

 

[Giangi]

Barry... You deserve it!

 

[Nate]

Ok shame shame

let's let it go.

 

[AGBF]

On 6/4/2003 11

0:44 AM barry wrote:

"Just to clarify and update. We are quite certain that the inscription was on tadashi's diamond when it left us.


When this post was brought to our attention, we posted publicly and

we simultaneously sent a private e-mail to "tadashi" to call us.


He did call. We explained that there are many reasons why an

inscription may not be visible. We oftentimes have difficulty picking up

the inscription even at 40-45X magnification and need to bump it up

to 50-60X. We proposed to tadashi that he return the stone to us

for examination and re-inscription if necessary. We would pay for round-trip

shipping+insurance as well as any setting costs further incurred by him.

He explained that his fiancee was too excited to part with her SuperbCert at

this time and might consider our offer at a later date. Our response

was that there was no time-limit to our offer and that we would be happy

to do this whenever he was ready."


I find this a very impressive response on Barry's part.

 

[LadyHawk]

AGBF--
You are so right, EXTREMELY impressive on Barry's part and a true indicator of the caliber of business man he is. I find the fact that TADASHI failed to have the integrity or courage to post this info on this thread is a true indicator of the type of person he must be.
MHLady

 

[harry]

----------------
On 6/4/2003 10

1:27 AM fire&ice wrote:

Maybe Harry & Tadashi are one and the same. Same M.O. - has a complaint and immediately takes it to this board without *any* contact with Barry. Barry was given *no* chance to rectify the situation.

Shame on the two of you - very uncivilized indeed!
----------------

to all: the inscription for a branded diamond is very important because it makes your stone a branded stone from that brand. if the tiffany ring that you bought from tiffany doesn't have an inscription then it's value is lower. if the Ferrari you bought looks like a Ferrari in every detail except there is no sign of a Ferrari label on the hood or the steering wheel, then you have a problem. the point is very clear, i don't know why so many people are confused. maybe subconsciously a lot of people don't think Superbcert adds a lot of brand value anyway.

i remember a thread on pricescope where barry sold a diamond that was a lower quality "premium" stone as opposed to a higher quality "Superbcert" branded stone. barry claimed that it was clearly stated on the webpage, but Cut Nut replied (and i will never forget this) by asking something like: "was it in that one place on the webpage where you said it's "Premium" or the 4 other places where you said Superbcert?"

fire and ice: incorrect on the first sentence and incorrect on the second sentence. extending your line of reasoning though, maybe Fire & Ice and aljedway are one and the same. Same M.O. - attacks harry without *any* contact with harry, instead rushes to barry's defense without having ever purchased a stone from him. leonid: fire & ice has attacked me personally on several of my posts without provocation. is this a violation of the rules on this board?

aljedeway: i have no quarrels with you. i have to say though, i am a rough rock with 46 posts compared to your 223 posts, but i should "give it a rest?"

barry: good job on making your offer to tabashi. that is a very satisfactory response. hopefully you will not make any of these mistakes again as this is a very important purchasing decision for the consumer. hopefully you will not need public questions and suggestions (e.g. from me)before telling everyone how mistakes like this are handled. hopefully you will make your return policy clear on your website that it's "for any reason" so that public questions are not required. hopefully you will agree that testing for strain is important (regardless of the durability issue) because treated stones (e.g., GE POL treated stones) are known to show unusual strain. hopefully you will state clearly on your website that you do not sell treated stones even though your prices are much lower than market.

tabashi: can you please confirm if your conversation with barry went as smoothly as he said?

 

[niceice]

----------------
the inscription for a branded diamond is very important because it makes your stone a branded stone from that brand
----------------

Harry reminded us of something when he made this statement... The presence of a brand inscription does add value to a stone in that most insurance companies offer insurance policies which provide for replacement of an item with "similar like and kind". Thus if a diamond is inscribed with the brand name of the seller, the insured is more likely to receive a diamond of comparable quality to what they originally purchased because it can be argued successfully that "similar like and kind" must be sourced from the same brand of diamond... Food for thought, nothing more, we sell both inscribed and non-inscribed diamonds and see the benefit of both options although our personal preference is for inscribed stones.

BTW: We are happy to see that the issue that was the catalist for this thread has been resolved and that the thread has turned for the better in our opinion to a conversation regarding whether inscriptions are important or not instead of a slap session

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 6/5/2003 10:56:28 AM harry wrote:

----------------
incorrect on the second sentence. leonid: fire & ice has attacked me personally on several of my posts without provocation. is this a violation of the rules on this board?

----------------

No, I have not attacked you personally. The second statement is correct. It *is* uncivilized to bring public negative feedback about a vendor before trying to resolve the issue privately.

I do not think turing this thread with this headline into a discussion about the merits of inscriptions is appropriate. The merits of signature and/or incriptions should be brought up on it's own thread.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 6/5/2003 10:56:28 AM harry wrote:
fire and ice: incorrect on the first sentence and incorrect on the second sentence. extending your line of reasoning though, maybe Fire & Ice and aljedway are one and the same. Same M.O. - attacks harry without *any* contact with harry, instead rushes to barry's defense without having ever purchased a stone from him. leonid: fire & ice has attacked me personally on several of my posts without provocation. is this a violation of the rules on this board?

aljedeway: i have no quarrels with you. i have to say though, i am a rough rock with 46 posts compared to your 223 posts, but i should "give it a rest?"
----------------

Harry: Even though I know this won't sink in with you, I feel compelled to try.

Let me assure you, F&I and I are separate individuals.

I've never attacked you.....I have, however, disagreed with rash statements that you've made and disagreed with the way you have handled things. I don't feel that my ability to respond is contingent upon "direct" contact with you....you're posting on a public board that is subject to response opinion, and you know that prior to posting. If you are easily offended by disagreement over the content of your posts on a public board, and if you feel that constructive criticism amounts to a personal attack, then I'd suggest this format isn't the most appropriate vehicle for you.

True, I have never purchased a stone from Barry, so I have no vested interest in defending him. In fact, if you read some of those 223 posts, you'd see I've not been a fan of Barry's presentation. My comments previously in your thread have not been aimed at defending Barry the person....I would feel strongly about anyone (not just you) maligning the reputation of ANY vendor here (not just Barry) without first trying to resolve the issue privately and without having any factual basis to suggest unethical business practices. As a matter of principle, I find that to be very poor behavior. You also know I'm not the only one who feels this way.....several other posters commented in kind on your last thread.

I have no quarrel with you personally, either. And yes, I have 223 posts to your 46. However, the greatest majority of my posts are comments on stones and answering questions posted here.....whereas the majority of yours have been directed at publicly flogging a vendor. I wasn't suggesting you should give posting a rest if you have something useful and meaningful and FAIR to contribute....whether praise or criticism. My suggestion of give it a rest was limited only to grinding your ax against Barry....nothing more.

We're all here to help one another....and it would be nice if it stayed that way.

 

[greengator]

Mommy, these people are mean to me!

Boohoo, grow up man.

 

[AGBF]

On 6/5/2003 1:12:21 PM greengator wrote:

"

Mommy, these people are mean to me!"

...and to whom was *this* directed? This is starting to resemble a bar room brawl: I am not sure who is hitting whom. (I just want to follow the action.)

 

[greengator]

AGBF,
I said "grow up man", I didn't say "grow up woman", didn't I?

So if you are a lady, then this isn't directed at you, isn't it?

 

[AGBF]

--
On 6/5/2003 1:21:32 PM greengator wrote:

"AGBF,

I said "grow up man", I didn't say "grow up woman", didn't I?

So if you are a lady, then this isn't directed at you, isn't it?"


Ah! You mistake me. I wasn't concerned that you might be addressing *me*!

As I said, I just wished to follow the action.

By telling us you were speaking to a man you only narrowed the field to half the planet. I wanted you to name a name!

 

[harry]

----------------
On 6/5/2003 11:36:22 AM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
On 6/5/2003 10:56:28 AM harry wrote:

----------------
incorrect on the second sentence. leonid: fire & ice has attacked me personally on several of my posts without provocation. is this a violation of the rules on this board?

----------------

No, I have not attacked you personally. The second statement is correct. It *is* uncivilized to bring public negative feedback about a vendor before trying to resolve the issue privately.

I do not think turing this thread with this headline into a discussion about the merits of inscriptions is appropriate. The merits of signature and/or incriptions should be brought up on it's own thread.


----------------

fire & ice: i said incorrect in 1st and 2nd sentence. you are referring to the 2nd part/paragraph

ajldeway: you are incorrect in a lot of your assumptions, especially the ones about me not having had any0 contact with barry. i think you do not realize that you do not mean what you're writing in which case you should write what you mean.

barry: care to explain some of the fishy aspects of Suerbcert stones/policies or are you speechless after some exposure to a critical eye? pricescope is a forum for you to do business. if someone questioned my ethics and my products in the forum that I do business, i would certainly volunteer information to protect my reputation.

i wonder if Superbcert's "Premium" stones are supposed to have a Superbcert inscription. if not, did tabashi order a lower quality "Premium" cut stone instead of a "Superbcert" stone and didn't know it? i again refer to the other thread on pricescope where barry claimed that he clearly stated on the webpage that the stone is a "Premium" cut when he had Superbcert written in 4 other places on the same page.

this is interesting. if "Superbcert" is also inscribed on the lower quaility "Premium" cut stones then it is clearly misleading. if "Superbcert" is not inscribed on the lower quality "Premium" cut stones and tabashi did unknowingly order a "Premium" cut stone, then all barry has offered to do is inscribe "Superbcert" on the "Premium" cut stone at tabashi's request.

look at the link below. with 40x magnification, a child can see the nucleus of an onion skin cell but barry with his 20 years of diamond experience has trouble seeing an inscription on a girdle. is the inscription playing hide-and-seek when you're looking for them? maybe it's time for you to lift your game. perhaps play with greenator since he's calling for his mommy.

http://www.kent.k12.wa.us/staff/rlynch/sci_class/chap02/cell_photos.html

 

[homer_j]

Let it go.

 

[jlim]

Though I agree the warning on the thread might be a bit extreme but since I'm not the one personally affected, I might think it is extreme. But if I'm the affected person, like tadashi, my response might be slightly different.

In anycase, I don't feel postings that urge people to just "drop it" is a good idea. If it is a problem, we need to acknowledge it and deal with it rather than sweeping it under the carpet.

This might be an extreme example, but it happened on a car forum:

Read it here if you are interested:
http://ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14473&highlight=vuitton

The gist of the story is, someone was trying to sell an LV bag. For less than 1/2 the price. He is selling it as a real LV bag. Whether or not he knows it is fake is not known. A few people caution that the bag might be a fake but he insisted that it is the real thing. Once someone pointed out the clues that might lead one to believe it is a fake, he succumb and said, he lost money and got cheated by the seller he bought it from.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Bill D.]

----------------
On 6/6/2003 10:10:53 AM harry wrote:


i wonder if Superbcert's "Premium" stones are supposed to have a Superbcert inscription. if not, did tabashi order a lower quality "Premium" cut stone instead of a "Superbcert" stone and didn't know it? i again refer to the other thread on pricescope where barry claimed that he clearly stated on the webpage that the stone is a "Premium" cut when he had Superbcert written in 4 other places on the same page.

this is interesting. if "Superbcert" is also inscribed on the lower quaility "Premium" cut stones then it is clearly misleading. if "Superbcert" is not inscribed on the lower quality "Premium" cut stones and tabashi did unknowingly order a "Premium" cut stone, then all barry has offered to do is inscribe "Superbcert" on the "Premium" cut stone at tabashi's request.


l----------------

That stone costs $3000 less than similar Super-Ideals on that site. There is also an idealscope which clearly shows it's not H&A. So basically, if you went to buy that thing you would probably be paying a reasonable price.

The only real problem is not getting what you paid for. And this refers to cut/color/carity/carat and not an inscription. I haven't bought my diamond yet and have a serious interest in finding out if someone will scam you. The hypotheses you are making without the facts are
very shaky.

 

[aljdewey]

LEONID: Can you please put an end to this nonsense?

Pretty please?

Al

 

[69gm]

i second the motion...or commotion...or something...

 

[DiamondExpert]

...amen to that!

 

[optimized]

While I have a great many thoughts on the happenings in this thread, I've thus far reserved comment since the various other contributors seemed to be saying it all. I now hesitate to comment due to a distinct feeling that the thread is now perched over a precipice and might turn extremely ugly if my comments were to body-check it over the edge (which seems a likely result).

Having said that, the recent posts by a couple of the people here lead me to just say that I for one wouldn't mind seeing the thread moved to "The Steam Room." Those of us who would be interested in taking it further would have that opportunity while the folks who (understandably) see it as an unbecoming addition to the "Rocky Talky" portion of the forums would not have to be subjected to the continued torture. That's what the Steam Room is all about, no?

Short of that, I would also cast a vote for a lockdown by Leonid.

-Tim

 

[harry]

hey if leonid wants to lock the thread and remove it from this board that is his prerogative. it will not affect me one bit because i have already decided not to buy from superbcert. the only people it'll affect are future shoppers who are denied the information.

sometimes i choose not to respond to specific posts because i know that the person has already purchased from superbcert, and i have no wish to hurt that person's feelings. future consumers need to know though, and if there's a way for me to inform future consumers without alerting those who have already purchased from superbcert i would do it that way.

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 6/7/2003 1:33:18 AM harry wrote:

hey if leonid wants to lock the thread and remove it from this board that is his prerogative. it will not affect me one bit because i have already decided not to buy from superbcert. the only people it'll affect are future shoppers who are denied the information.

sometimes i choose not to respond to specific posts because i know that the person has already purchased from superbcert, and i have no wish to hurt that person's feelings. future consumers need to know though, and if there's a way for me to inform future consumers without alerting those who have already purchased from superbcert i would do it that way.

----------------


Future customers need to know what? That Barry once sold a Premium stone on a page that had SuperbCert written on it 4 times? Oh the horror.

I don't know the old thread you are talking about, nor is this a defense for SuperbCert persay. However, the bottom line here is that mistakes can be made and people should be given the benefit of the doubt or have a chance to explain themselves before being raked across the coals on a public forum where future and current customers reside. Barry, like any other HUMAN BEING, can make a mistake and if the mistake has been identified and rectified in the past, why drag it up again and again? This goes for any vendor who sells stones. You don't think that GOG or WF or anyone else has ever had a disgruntled customer? You cannot please everyone and those who try end up discouraged and cynical. You focus on your top clientele and those who respect you and what you do, and to hell the with the rest.

I've followed this thread from the original post through the morph into this strange odd attack on SuperbCert...and for me it all boils down to one thing. The original post was not inappropriate, it was the title and tone of the post that I think many take offense to, myself included. YES future customers should know the history of a company they are considering--yes that is what Pricescope is about, among other things. Sure they should know the good and the bad. But to title a post BEWARE and then say that the only thing to complain about is an inscription is very petty in my eyes. Did they say the appraiser said it was a crappy stone and is really an I as opposed to whatever it was sold as? No. They can't find the inscription. Oh and by the way, at some point in the past, a stone was sold on a page where the person buying didn't realize what they were getting. Repeat after me....educated purchase. You don't read the page? You don't know the specifics? You deserve what you get. It may sound harsh, and yes maybe the page should be re-worded for the general masses who skim read then place thousands of dollars on the table for an order they don't read about, but to me it is the responsibility of the buyer to know what they are getting. Confirm it. Confirm it again. This is not a few pennies we are talking about here...but rather large sums of money.

Could we really be any more dramatic here? Any other dirty SuperbCert laundry that needs to be aired while we are at it?

That said...I actually don't agree that Leonid should nix this thread...as that is not the spirit of the forum--moving it to the Steam Room makes sense to me. Those who wish to continue battling back and forth can have at it, and RT can stay free from bitter poison.

My two very late nite cents...oh and I was so close to continuing to type nothing...

 

[mdx]

While some my feel that this type of thread is constructive and maybe they.are.

There exists a little problem that may cause some serious repercussions.

These threads are picked up by the search engines and in most cases will be indexed under the vendor’s name.

This fact could be horribly abused and lead to some serious litigation by vendors unfairly slated.

I think most will agree that this forum is the worlds best for assisting the public in making an informed decision. Consumers should respect this and try all avenues to resolve any disputes or misunderstanding with before posting a negative comment.

Wayne

 

[jlim]

Though I disagree with tadashi on the choice of the title but since he's personally affected, he has every right to use words that he sees fit.

But what Harry said about warning future customers is valid. We have so many tools and search engine at our disposal and at times we fall into the trap believing everything we read on the internet is the truth if the search engine finds any link to any postings that somewhat confirm out believe.

Are you so gullible that you think everything you read on the internet is true? Even when I read how good vendor xxx is etc. I read it with a grain of salt. I'll make my own judgement when I personally deal with them. But at least I'm prepared knowing the good and the bad.

For example. When I read on this forum, Vatche makes the Tiffany Lucida setting, I used google to search. While I didn't find press releases nor statements from respective websites confirming it, I did find several postings on enthusiast websites of people speculating on it, saying it is and confirming it is. While it may be true, but all of these to me are speculations. There's no official statement from any of the affected parties. All we have is reading about someone who called Eclipse and was told they make the Lucida setting, or the similarity bet. the X-Prong and Lucida setting.

This is similar to an experiment where you tell the first kid about your furry white pet rabbit and the 1st. kid tells the next and so forth, and by the 50th. kid, you have a blue rabbit.

If "BEWARE OF XXX VENDOR" is a bad choice of title in the negative,
what about "EXCELLENT SERVICE FROM XXX VENDOR". Would that be a bad choice of title in the positive??

Maybe tadashi was going to go with "XXX VENDOR IS A CROOK" or "XXX VENDOR SCREWED ME OVER". But he mellow down to the final choice of title.

Are we on a public forum going to police what choices of words some other people we haven't even met use?

 

[pricescope]

----------------
These threads are picked up by the search engines and in most cases will be indexed under the vendor’s name.
----------------

No worries, Wayne. This thread won't be googled

 

[homer_j]

Why not let it be googled. If it weren't for this ability someone like Stuart Moore would not have been able to respond to a posting here and clear up an outstanding issue. In that case I think it started out poorly, but quickly came around becasue nobody came right out and attacked him or his business. We asked for questions and clarifications and he responded effectively, and I respect him for that and hope he didn't get a bad taste and will continue to visit and offer his perspective and expertise.

While I think that the Tadashi's approach was not the most appropriate or responsible course of action, I do agree with Jlim. There should be freedom here to express dissatisfaction as equally as satisfaction. Any intelligent and I stress INTELLIGENT consumer or purveyor of this forum will make their own decisions based on their own beliefs and experiences. Remember, no matter what you reead or hear, BUYER BEWARE! This forum is a guide, a knowledge base. Not the end all and be all for information. If it were, myself and all other rough rock should not be allowed to weigh in on some of the more technical issues such as pointed out by some of the appraisers that frequent. What I would rather like to see is a respectable discussion/debate regarding all issues. Make your points clearly and concisely, if you have an opinion state it and don't resort to bickering back and forth. I'm not referring to any one or two individuals here, but just as a general rule.

So let it be known now that there are a couple people dissatisfied with a particular vendor's service. And there are very many who have been satisfied. OK, point taken and lessons learned. I hope any responsible consumer will consider both points and in the end make their own decisions. I also hope that people continue to post both good and bad experiences, just in a less volatile manner.

Just my opinion, please don't take it for any more than that.

 

[harry]

leonid: this is your website and you are free to do as you wish, but jlim and homer do bring up good points. if negative feedback should be blocked from search engines then why shouldn't positive feedback also be blocked?

to all: i think jlim's point that "we fall into the trap believing everything we read on the internet is the truth" is important. consider barry's response on this thread:

"We oftentimes have difficulty picking up the inscription even at 40-45X magnification and need to bump it up to 50-60X."

i think a lot of people just took this at face value without asking themselves if this is likely. again, i offer a picture below of what can be seen with a microscope at 40x magnification. the picture is from a school district somewhere. with a 40x microscope, a kid/teenager can see the spots inside the nucleus of an onion skin cell but barry with 20+ years of experience cannot find the inscription on a girdle? i really find that doubtful. if you disagree with me that's fine, but it is completely fair for me ask questions such as this.

http://www.kent.k12.wa.us/staff/rlynch/sci_class/chap02/cell_photos.html

 

[slukster]

"We oftentimes have difficulty picking up
the inscription even at 40-45X magnification and need to bump it up
to 50-60X. "

While I believe that finding the inscription with a 10x loupe is difficult for the average person, I am surprised to hear that people are having difficulty seeing it under higher magnification, especially people in the business. Barry was able to show me the inscription of my Superbcert under I think it was 30x with no problem and I am able to find it using my 10x loupe. Granted the inscription is REAL small with the 10x but I see it no problem.

Is the reason it is sometimes hard to see under high magnification because of the point others have brought up earlier about the black type being steamed off? I even showed the inscription to my seeing eye dog and he was also able to see it with the 10x loupe.

 

[Greatcall]

YOU GET THE FEELING THAT SUPERCERT IS A PAID VENDOR HERE. EITHER THAT OR HE HAS LOTS OF FANS THAT ADORE HIM.

HMMMMMM