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Bit of a game changer - GRAFF

A

act1980

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
144
Thought I'd found a stone but just before I'd put the deposit down my contact sent me over some details of another diamond he'd found. The GIA inscription of the diamond has GRAFF inscribed on it. Needless to say I have snapped it up, really pleased I waited as I've never seen any GRAFF inscribed stones come on the market as they usually go into GRAFF stores. Got it for a good price too which surprised me. Can't wait to see it in the flesh. Just got to design my setting now! :)
 
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They are not that uncommon as a diamond that was traded in or sold back into the trade then on to the wholesale market.
The few I seen the info on where nothing special.
Which lab is the grading report by and how old is the report?
 
Karl_K said:
They are not that uncommon as a diamond that was traded in or sold back into the trade then on to the wholesale market.
The few I seen the info on where nothing special.
Which lab is the grading report by and how old is the report?
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It's a GIA and dated March 2020.
 
That's pretty recent; just make sure it's really a Graff & not a fake.
@Karl_K my Graff is pretty special to me ;)
 
I'm curious what it looks like too !
And the specs.
I never heard of a Graff stone being sold like this (full pieces yes, never a loose stone). Learn something new every day!
 
That's awesome! There's no other distinguishing factors on the diamond that make it GRAFF besides the inscription, correct?
 
Polabowla said:
I'm curious what it looks like too !
And the specs.
I never heard of a Graff stone being sold like this (full pieces yes, never a loose stone). Learn something new every day!
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Nor had I so I was pleasantly surprised :) It’s a 2.32, G, VVS2, XXX, with no Flou. Looks like it gives off a nice amount of fire so I’m excited to see it properly next month.
 
symc820 said:
That's awesome! There's no other distinguishing factors on the diamond that make it GRAFF besides the inscription, correct?
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That’s correct.
 
act1980 said:
Nor had I so I was pleasantly surprised :) It’s a 2.32, G, VVS2, XXX, with no Flou. Looks like it gives off a nice amount of fire so I’m excited to see it properly next month.
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Oooh should be gorgeous! Can't wait to see the pictures!
Is it more cost effective to buy it this way, rather than directly from Graff?
 
act1980 said:
Absolutely! I paid about 60% less than what GRAFF quoted. The price I paid also includes a matching diamond wedding band! :)
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That's amazing!!!! I can't wait to see photos/videos if it once you get it.
 
Wow that is incredible!
 
Can you post the GIA grading report angles etc?

Would be interesting to see what Graff considers a good GIA XXX and how it compares to PS XXX :D
 
@act1980, your journey has been... Winding. I hope you love the stone you chose.

However, some reality checks:

act1980 said:
I would assume it's genuine based on the fact that the inscription is noted on the GIA.
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Bad assumption.

GIA just notated whatever’s on the girdle. They are not verifying, validating, confirming, or authenticating anything that is inscribed on the girdle.

John Graff and Jane Doe could decide to have Graff inscribed on their stone, and GIA would note it in their comments.

I’m not saying that’s what’s happened here. I’m just saying the fact that GIA notes the inscription should give you no confidence regarding its veracity.

The brand premium that Graff commands is irrelevant in this situation - your stone is not worth more (than another unbranded GIA of identical specs) to anyone else because of that inscription. It would be worth a lot more if it came in an authentic setting, but as a lone diamond... Even if it was originally truly from a Graff piece... It has zero brand value. The fact that you are excited about this detail and feel surprised by “a good price for the branding” makes me think you really don’t fully understand this... I hope you paid a fair market price for an unbranded, non precision-cut GIA 2.32, G, VVS2, XXX, with no fluor, because that’s what this stone is worth.

It seems your supplier explained none of this to you, which is... Telling.
 
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OoohShiny said:
Can you post the GIA grading report angles etc?

Would be interesting to see what Graff considers a good GIA XXX and how it compares to PS XXX :D
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Sure! I actually contacted GRAFF to get a price for a similar stone. They quoted £60k for this... https://www.gia.edu/UK-EN/report-check?reportno=2307819854. It's get a 5 on the HCA tool, mine gets a 3.3. I decided to go for it anyway as I liked the look of the stone and realised I was getting too hung up on the numbers. I watched a couple of videos on the HCA tool like this
and read up a fair bit on it. I decided to put the numbers to one side and just go with my eyes in the end!
 
yssie said:
@act1980, your journey has been... Winding. I hope you love the stone you chose.

However, some reality checks:



Bad assumption.

GIA just notated whatever’s on the girdle. They are not verifying, validating, confirming, or authenticating anything that is inscribed on the girdle.

John Graff and Jane Doe could decide to have Graff inscribed on their stone, and GIA would note it in their comments.

I’m not saying that’s what’s happened here. I’m just saying the fact that GIA notes the inscription should give you no confidence regarding its veracity.

The brand premium that Graff commands is irrelevant in this situation - your stone is not worth more (than another unbranded GIA of identical specs) to anyone else because of that inscription. It would be worth a lot more if it came in an authentic setting, but as a lone diamond... Even if it was originally truly from a Graff piece... It has zero brand value. The fact that you are excited about this detail and feel surprised by “a good price for the branding” makes me think you really don’t fully understand this... I hope you paid a fair market price for an unbranded, non precision-cut GIA 2.32, G, VVS2, XXX, with no fluor, because that’s what this stone is worth.

It seems your supplier explained none of this to you, which is... Telling.
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Thats copyright though isn't it? Surely if this was happening GRAFF would have something to say about it?
 
act1980 said:
Thats copyright though isn't it? Surely if this was happening GRAFF would have something to say about it?
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I am sure Graff would have no idea of a single random diamond floating out there with their name inscribed on it. I imagine it likely is from Graff. But this is another example of a nice diamond sold by a high end vendor that is not cut to ideal cut proportions. I am sure it is beautiful and certainly above average in the overall scheme of things. But if it didn't have Graff on it, I am betting you wouldn't have bought it and we wouldn't have approved it based on those numbers. Judging with your eyes is fine if you have seen a significant number of ideal cut stones before looking at others.

Still, I think as long as you look at it and see a gorgeous stone, that is all that really matters. No one will know what's inscribed on it. The positive side is that you got it at a good price and didn't pay a brand premium.
 
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act1980 said:
Absolutely! I paid about 60% less than what GRAFF quoted. The price I paid also includes a matching diamond wedding band! :)
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@Polabowla I want to clarify this - your ring is a Graff ring and has all the brand market value and heritage that buying an authentic Graff piece has to offer.

This diamond, whether or not it originated from a Graff piece, has no Graff brand market value whatsoever. OP has not bought a piece from Graff, and if she walks into a Graff boutique the house will not claim any association with this stone, so there really isn’t any comparison to be made in terms of cheaper ways to buy Graff pieces.

Polabowla said:
Oooh should be gorgeous! Can't wait to see the pictures!
Is it more cost effective to buy it this way, rather than directly from Graff?
Click to expand...
 
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yssie said:
@Polabowla I want to clarify this - your ring is a Graff ring and has all the brand market value and heritage that buying an authentic Graff piece has to offer.

This diamond, whether or not it originated from a Graff piece, has no Graff brand market value whatsoever. OP has not bought a piece from Graff, and if she walks into a Graff boutique the house will not claim any association with this stone, so there really isn’t any comparison to be made in terms of cheaper ways to buy Graff pieces.
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Thank you, I am aware of this. I would also like to clarify that I wasn't suggesting that you could buy other GRAFF stones on the open market. I should have been clearer, I meant you can buy GIA certified diamonds for much less which will essentially be the same, if not better than branded stones. I have a Tiffany engagement ring so my reasons for upgrading and buying a lose stone is to save money and not pay a premium for a branded piece of jewellery as I've been there and done that :)
 
act1980 said:
Here you go... Gets a 3.3 on HCA but as I said, I decided to go with my eyes in the end!

Screenshot 2020-11-06 at 14.58.37.png
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Thank you for posting the info :)

It's a touch steep-deep but Serg has said that some combos work well, because one eye will see brightness that cancels out any leakage from a facet.

It could be worth looking at the Cutwise platform to see how such a combination works in terms of fire etc. :)
 
OoohShiny said:
Thank you for posting the info :)

It's a touch steep-deep but Serg has said that some combos work well, because one eye will see brightness that cancels out any leakage from a facet.

It could be worth looking at the Cutwise platform to see how such a combination works in terms of fire etc. :)
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No worries! Thanks for all your help during my search! :))

I’ll have to check it out. Would you mind posting the link please?
 
yssie said:
@Polabowla I want to clarify this - your ring is a Graff ring and has all the brand market value and heritage that buying an authentic Graff piece has to offer.

This diamond, whether or not it originated from a Graff piece, has no Graff brand market value whatsoever. OP has not bought a piece from Graff, and if she walks into a Graff boutique the house will not claim any association with this stone, so there really isn’t any comparison to be made in terms of cheaper ways to buy Graff pieces.
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Can you clarify why the loose diamond has no brand value & why they would not claim any association with this stone?
Is it because Graff did not sell it?
I always thought if you buy a branded stone or piece of jewelry it has extra value attached to the brand?
I'm a bit confused :?:
 
I would have thought that a Graff stone would have tighter crown and pavilion proportions. These seem a bit off to me, although there could be other compensating factors. I've posted elsewhere that GIA XXX does not equate to super ideal---not that OP is classifying this stone as such. With Graff's reputation (and cost factor), I'd expect any stone to come out of his shop to be top of the line in terms of proportions, but I suspect GIA XXX is considered top of the line for the majority of people.
 
In addition to the GIA my wife has a Canada Mark number engraved on her diamond. Canada Mark maintain a database so the owner can check to make sure their stone was mined in Canada and is conflict free.

Similarly I think Graff might well engrave their diamonds to prove they are from Graff. I would have thought that if GIA noted a Graff signature on a diamond that didn't come from Graff, they would check their records to make sure the stone originated from Graff. If there was a problem they would for sure have informed Graff. GIA make their money from the trade, and maintaining good relations with their trade customers is part of the reason they dominate this business. Certing a fake Graff diamond would not be in their best interest.

Maybe @act1980 might be able to contact Graff and get some confirmation.
 
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