Bit of a game changer - GRAFF

[OoohShiny]

No worries! Thanks for all your help during my search!

I’ll have to check it out. Would you mind posting the link please?

Here you go - I've filtered by the proportions that are similar to yours

Cutwise

cutwise.com

You can see how there may appear to be a ring of leakage under the table, but when you press the little 'play' button to the left of each row of images, they move around and you can see how the leakage disappears away from the head-on position.

You will be viewing it with two eyes from different angles, rather than one eye from one angle (the latter of which is what a camera does) so any leakage may well be even less visible when in motion on the finger.

The fact that you have said it looks great suggests it is performing well for your taste

 

[yssie]

Can you clarify why the loose diamond has no brand value & why they would not claim any association with this stone?
Is it because Graff did not sell it?
I always thought if you buy a branded stone or piece of jewelry it has extra value attached to the brand?
I'm a bit confused

Because if it does indeed originate from a Graff piece (which we don’t know), it was not purchased from Graff, it is no longer part of the piece that Graff had originally set it into, and it may or may not be in the condition that Graff had originally sold it. It is no longer an authentic Graff jewel, and Graff will neither acknowledge it nor service it.

This is how all the big jewellery houses operate. It is inadvisable to ever let anyone (outside brand workshops) work on a branded piece, because most brands will consider a piece that has been worked on by anyone else to no longer be wholly authentic. Separating components of a branded piece - the second they are separate each component ceases to be “authentic” in any capacity, and even putting them back together will not restore authenticity.

Of course there are exceptions... If you’re a VIP customer, or if you’ve got a good relationship with an SA, he or she might be willing to do you a favour (looking up serial numbers, digging up old paperwork, evaluating authenticity of a component, perhaps for a VVIP client even resetting that component).

 

[Polabowla]

Wow i had no idea about any of that! I'm glad you told me.
I'm assuming Graff doesn't sell loose stones ?

 

[yssie]

Wow i had no idea about any of that! I'm glad you told me.
I'm assuming Graff doesn't sell loose stones ?

Not as far as I’m aware - outside of the investment range!!

 

[Polabowla]

Slightly off topic have you been to a Graff boutique @yssie ? It's like a sparkly magical fairy land! And the sales associates are sooo nice there!

 

[yssie]

Slightly off topic have you been to a Graff boutique @yssie ? It's like a sparkly magical fairy land! And the sales associates are sooo nice there!

Yes!! Magical is the perfect description!! I’ve been to the Vegas boutique a few times (basically every time I’ve been in Vegas )
I went to the SF one for the first time last year with another PSer and got to try on this AMAZING strand of south sea pearls... Now I’ve gone completely pearls mad

 

[act1980]

In addition to the GIA my wife has a Canada Mark number engraved on her diamond. Canada Mark maintain a database so the owner can check to make sure their stone was mined in Canada and is conflict free.

Similarly I think Graff might well engrave their diamonds to prove they are from Graff. I would have thought that if GIA noted a Graff signature on a diamond that didn't come from Graff, they would check their records to make sure the stone originated from Graff. If there was a problem they would for sure have informed Graff. GIA make their money from the trade, and maintaining good relations with their trade customers is part of the reason they dominate this business. Certing a fake Graff diamond would not be in their best interest.

Maybe @act1980 might be able to contact Graff and get some confirmation.

Thank you for your post, this is exactly my thinking. I have also done my own research and have read that GRAFF cut their own stones in house, they are then certified by GIA. As you said, they also inscribe a serial number on the stone. Either way I'm excited about it and thats the main thing

 

[act1980]

Here you go - I've filtered by the proportions that are similar to yours

Cutwise

cutwise.com

You can see how there may appear to be a ring of leakage under the table, but when you press the little 'play' button to the left of each row of images, they move around and you can see how the leakage disappears away from the head-on position.

You will be viewing it with two eyes from different angles, rather than one eye from one angle (the latter of which is what a camera does) so any leakage may well be even less visible when in motion on the finger.

The fact that you have said it looks great suggests it is performing well for your taste

Brill! Thank you for this! I think they all look lovely to be honest

 

[prs]

Thank you for your post, this is exactly my thinking. I have also done my own research and have read that GRAFF cut their own stones in house, they are then certified by GIA. As you said, they also inscribe a serial number on the stone. Either way I'm excited about it and thats the main thing

When I look at auction results jewelry pieces by high end name brands such as Tiffany fetch hefty premiums. Graff pieces fetch by far the highest premium!

A certain subsection of diamond buyers will pay a premium for a Whiteflash or CBI diamond, and expect their diamond to retain some of that premium when they have it set by a different jeweler. I suspect the number of ladies who might recognize the brand value in a Graff diamond will far exceed those who have even heard of Whiteflash or CBI. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but mine is that a GIA certed Graff diamond will definitely demand a premium.

I hope this all works out, for sure you'll be the only girl on your block with a Graff diamond !!!!

 

[CircularBrilliant]

When I look at auction results jewelry pieces by high end name brands such as Tiffany fetch hefty premiums. Graff pieces fetch by far the highest premium!

A certain subsection of diamond buyers will pay a premium for a Whiteflash or CBI diamond, and expect their diamond to retain some of that premium when they have it set by a different jeweler. I suspect the number of ladies who might recognize the brand value in a Graff diamond will far exceed those who have even heard of Whiteflash or CBI. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but mine is that a GIA certed Graff diamond will definitely demand a premium.

I hope this all works out, for sure you'll be the only girl on your block with a Graff diamond !!!!

Completely agree with you on the perceived value, but based on my experience, I disagree about actual dollar value on the name brands. When I was hunting for my e-ring, I shopped at the big jewelry houses, and found to my surprise that Graff was priced significantly lower than the likes of Tiffany, etc for rings with center stones in the range of 3-4ct. In my experience, the sticker price doesn't actually mean anything there, and they will easily take 20-30%+ off. I also found the SA incredibly nice and far more knowledgeable about jewelry than SAs I met at other stores, and their designs were beautiful, had excellent workmanship, and IMO more unique as well. Had I decided to go with a modern branded piece, it would have been Graff for sure. You can't beat the combination of a higher-quality piece with higher perceived value and actual lower price!

 

[Polabowla]

Completely agree with you on the perceived value, but based on my experience, I disagree about actual dollar value on the name brands. When I was hunting for my e-ring, I shopped at the big jewelry houses, and found to my surprise that Graff was priced significantly lower than the likes of Tiffany, etc for rings with center stones in the range of 3-4ct. In my experience, the sticker price doesn't actually mean anything there, and they will easily take 20-30%+ off. I also found the SA incredibly nice and far more knowledgeable about jewelry than SAs I met at other stores, and their designs were beautiful, had excellent workmanship, and IMO more unique as well. Had I decided to go with a modern branded piece, it would have been Graff for sure. You can't beat the combination of a higher-quality piece with higher perceived value and actual lower price!

The SA i worked with at Graff was a certified gemologist, probably why they are much more knowledgeable.

 

[yssie]

A certain subsection of diamond buyers will pay a premium for a Whiteflash or CBI diamond, and expect their diamond to retain some of that premium when they have it set by a different jeweler. I suspect the number of ladies who might recognize the brand value in a Graff diamond will far exceed those who have even heard of Whiteflash or CBI. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but mine is that a GIA certed Graff diamond will definitely demand a premium.

I hope this all works out, for sure you'll be the only girl on your block with a Graff diamond !!!!

I don’t know how many times to clarify that this stone has no Graff brand value. But I’ll try once more, for any lurkers who might persist in hoping:

THIS STONE HAS NO GRAFF BRAND VALUE.

It commands zero market premium over any other unbranded stone of identical specifications.

My prior posts explain why. When you buy a branded diamond, the brand value is in the diamond. This is true for any branded diamond - not just PS boutique options. When you buy a branded piece, the brand value is in the piece as a whole, not its individual components. And Graff does not sell loose stones outside the investment range.

Any PS members’ opinions to the contrary are simply inaccurate and misleading. @prs, please stop propagating misinformation.

Of course, the possibility of owning a stone that was once part of a branded piece may appeal to you personally, but such a purchase should be made with understanding and acknowledgment of market reality.

 

[yssie]

I would have thought that if GIA noted a Graff signature on a diamond that didn't come from Graff, they would check their records to make sure the stone originated from Graff. If there was a problem they would for sure have informed Graff. GIA make their money from the trade, and maintaining good relations with their trade customers is part of the reason they dominate this business. Certing a fake Graff diamond would not be in their best interest.

You wholly misunderstand GIA’s mission.

1. There is no singular “database” to check ownership, branding, etc. against. What “records” would you have GIA check?
2. GIA notes whatever is inscribed on the girdle on the report. GIA is NOT “certifying”, authenticating, validating, or fact-checking any of this information. They are very clear about this in their literature, which is freely and publicly available.
3. GIA is not, has never been, and will never be in the business of playing judge or jury on brand value. This would, in fact, be a clear violation of their (also publicly stated) commitment to impartiality. Each brand is responsible for determining what they consider “authentic”. All houses will be more than happy to explain the details of what is and is not breach of authenticity if you call in.

 

[LLJsmom]

I don’t know how many times to clarify that this stone has no Graff brand value. But I’ll try once more, for any lurkers who might persist in hoping:

THIS STONE HAS NO GRAFF BRAND VALUE.

It commands zero market premium over any other unbranded stone of identical specifications.

My prior posts explain why. When you buy a branded diamond, the brand value is in the diamond. This is true for any branded diamond - not just PS boutique options. When you buy a branded piece, the brand value is in the piece as a whole, not its individual components. And Graff does not sell loose stones outside the investment range.

Any PS members’ opinions to the contrary are simply inaccurate and misleading. @prs, please stop propagating misinformation.

Of course, the possibility of owning a stone that was once part of a branded piece may appeal to you personally, but such a purchase should be made with understanding and acknowledgment of market reality.

This is a useful reminder. Sometimes I want to take my VCA pieces to my local jeweler to have a little thing fixed, or shortened and that would be bad. Not a jewelry piece but I have had an LV zipper fixed outside of LV and they would no longer touch my bag. Sadness.
OP Have you gotten an ASET viewer yet?

 

[Polabowla]

This is a useful reminder. Sometimes I want to take my VCA pieces to my local jeweler to have a little thing fixed, or shortened and that would be bad. Not a jewelry piece but I have had an LV zipper fixed outside of LV and they would no longer touch my bag. Sadness.
OP Have you gotten an ASET viewer yet?

I literally had no idea & im so glad to learn this before ever taking my branded items elsewhere!
I'm sorry about your LV bag.

 

[act1980]

Thanks to everyone thats contributed to this thread, it wasn't my intention to start a debate. I was just pleased to have finally found a stone that I am happy with and I liked the fact that it has the extra inscription as it added a little something (for me anyway). I'm not too bothered if the inscription adds any extra value as I'm not buying this with the intention of selling so whether it appreciates or not is really irrelevant. We've already got a great deal compared to UK pricing as we have bought the stone in Dubai. Value is subjective anyway, something that is worth nothing to someone will be worth everything to the next person.

 

[CircularBrilliant]

That you love it is all that matters! When you get it, you will know if it's the one, and it really won't matter what anyone else has to say about it. I discovered a really neat thing about Graff inscriptions when I was shopping -- on some of the step cuts, I could actually see the "GRAFF" inscription reflected down into a facet when I looked at the stone through a loupe! I doubt it would work that way in an MRB, but I thought it was the coolest effect when I was able to spot it. Not gonna lie, I would absolutely have been willing to pay extra $$ for that effect had I not found a true antique I fell in love with :-p

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sure! I actually contacted GRAFF to get a price for a similar stone. They quoted £60k for this... https://www.gia.edu/UK-EN/report-check?reportno=2307819854. It's get a 5 on the HCA tool, mine gets a 3.3. I decided to go for it anyway as I liked the look of the stone and realised I was getting too hung up on the numbers. I watched a couple of videos on the HCA tool like this

and read up a fair bit on it. I decided to put the numbers to one side and just go with my eyes in the end!

I watched that video the other day and had a bit of a chuckle.
Your diamond can easily have 3-5 points taken off the pavilion to improve its performance Act.
A clever cutter may even be able to make it show hearts and arrows with no weight loss. We often manage to do this when we buy a diamond that is a bit too deep.

 

[act1980]

That you love it is all that matters! When you get it, you will know if it's the one, and it really won't matter what anyone else has to say about it. I discovered a really neat thing about Graff inscriptions when I was shopping -- on some of the step cuts, I could actually see the "GRAFF" inscription reflected down into a facet when I looked at the stone through a loupe! I doubt it would work that way in an MRB, but I thought it was the coolest effect when I was able to spot it. Not gonna lie, I would absolutely have been willing to pay extra $$ for that effect had I not found a true antique I fell in love with :-p

Thats really cool!

 

[act1980]

I do have a H&A's image. It's black and white and taken through a phone but I think it looks pretty good considering.

 

[Polabowla]

I do have a H&A's image. It's black and white and taken through a phone but I think it looks pretty good considering.

Looking forward to seeing the pictures!

 

[act1980]

Looking forward to seeing the pictures!

It’s in HK at the moment, on its way to Dubai next week and then I’m hoping to get out there to collect it next month! If I can’t get there I’ll have it shipped. Sent over my design preferences today so they’re getting a CAD ready. So excited to see it when it’s finished!