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Black Diamond Spinel Sapphire Pricing

R

razshan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
9
Hi All,
I'm in the market for a black stone for a custom engagement ring, with the only guidance is that it has to be big! Bigger The better!
I'm willing to sacrifice the quality of the stone to increase the size of the stone.
I have been looking at Treated Black Diamonds, spinels, and sapphires, but have struggled to find certified stones of the size I'm after.
I've attached a couple of images of a treated diamond that I have been looking at, to give you an idea of the size I was after and these would be possibly over my budget of $US3000
Can anybody provide any info on the pricing of black diamonds and or other stones?
I also have two other stones of similar size and price from the same dealer which could be options.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
Shannon
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Hi, be aware that there are black “diamonds” out there that aren’t actually diamonds so certification is important. You don’t want to be buying $10 Black CZ for more than $10. Even real black diamonds are usually treated and often have crystalline flaws. And you could sort of say a black diamond is diamond completely filled with carbon flecks.
Black Sapphires are very nice, found here in Australia. Will also wear well as a gemstone.
One particularly nice gemstone is black star sapphire.
Other black gems are onyx and obsidian which are often found in men’s signet rings. Spinel and Tourmaline also come in black too.
While black diamonds might seem an interesting proposition, they often have poor finishes to their surfaces (natural chips and flaws) so I think Black Star sapphire a more unique and visually pleasing gemstone.
 
When you say big, where you given any actual numbers? I ask because the stone you posted is certainly too large to wear on a daily basis. The stone you posted is larger than I can depict, but the one on the left is 22 mm x 16 mm and the one on the right is 12x10 -- both on a size 6 finger.

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Real black diamonds cost $1000-$3000 per carat. When they are naturally colored (not irradiated) they can be quite pretty, although will lack the sparkle of more colorless varietals. Dark grey is quite nice, but more expensive. The sparkle of a black diamond will be the facets on the table and crown. You only only going to see sparkle off the table as the light return internal to the crystal is non-existent. Look for a smaller table and large crown facets. A rose cut is actually very successful in black diamonds.

https://www.leibish.com/black-diamonds

I'm not a fan of black irradiated stones, as they are significantly flawed and often quite fragile. Both irridatied and natural stones are so full of inclusions that they can be quite brittle and fragile leading to chips and other damage. These need a protective setting (bezel).

GIA often grades stones as grey that can read as black. This is too small, but shows the point.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ear-shaped/0.27-carat-si1-clarity-sku-4864669

GIA Black Diamond. https://www.asteriadiamonds.com/1-0...amond-marquise-shape-gia-certified-2151958154

For black spinel and (maybe) sapphire, lab-created rough is available for cutters. This will be the same crystal as a natural stone, but created in a lab. They will be structurally more sound than a treated black diamond. You could reach out to one of the following precision cutters and get a quote for a custom-cut stone. You'll be guaranteed to get what you think you are getting in terms of material and they will be cut to maximize light return. The following are all usually happy to work with lab-created rough.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/GeologicSpectrum
https://www.etsy.com/shop/AlternativesLapidary
https://www.etsy.com/shop/WildKatGemCraft?ref=l2-shopheader-name {not sure if he does commission cuts, but worth asking}
 
Just FYI, here in the UK, you can buy a Boi Ploi Black spinel 16 x 12mm cushion cut (in a sterling silver setting) for £10!
 
Wow @rockysalamander, absolutely love the grey pear. Well not so much the shape but color and cut. Black is my favorite color and the grey, while not as dark, allows enough translucency to appear as a diamond and not a flat black stone.

You know I'm a plain guy but this one I could see coupled with a brushed stainless band, obviously in a different shape that is more masculine, for a guys band.
 
sledge said:
Wow @rockysalamander, absolutely love the grey pear. Well not so much the shape but color and cut. Black is my favorite color and the grey, while not as dark, allows enough translucency to appear as a diamond and not a flat black stone.

You know I'm a plain guy but this one I could see coupled with a brushed stainless band, obviously in a different shape that is more masculine, for a guys band.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Grey is such a nice color. Even in paler shades, they could be quite lovely in a ring.
https://www.leibish.com/gray-diamonds/fancy-gray-radiant-21412
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di.../round-cut/1.01-carat-si1-clarity-sku-3446959
https://www.bluenile.com/colored-diamond-details/gray-LD09599932?elem=img&track=product&vtype=still

Grey spinel are also quite pretty. Really hard to photo, so I find the written description helpful. This has a nice blue undertone and makes the stone more variable in different lighting. They can be flour too!
https://mdmayagems.com/collections/...uish-gray-spinel-unheated-octagon-cut-1-78-ct
 
The spinel is much prettier than the diamond you are looking at. I love onyx but I don’t think it would hold up to every day wear. Why do you want such a large stone?
 
I’m confused about “the only criteria is size”. You can get some butt ugly certified honkers, but is that really what you want? Are you saying you really do not care what the stone looks like? You have no preference for color, shape, faceting, light return, inclusion type? Really?
 
rockysalamander said:
Agreed. Grey is such a nice color. Even in paler shades, they could be quite lovely in a ring.
https://www.leibish.com/gray-diamonds/fancy-gray-radiant-21412
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di.../round-cut/1.01-carat-si1-clarity-sku-3446959
https://www.bluenile.com/colored-diamond-details/gray-LD09599932?elem=img&track=product&vtype=still

Grey spinel are also quite pretty. Really hard to photo, so I find the written description helpful. This has a nice blue undertone and makes the stone more variable in different lighting. They can be flour too!
https://mdmayagems.com/collections/...uish-gray-spinel-unheated-octagon-cut-1-78-ct
Click to expand...

Very glad I popped in here. Agree, the light & medium greys tend to be my favorite.

Not sure I could swallow that kind of coin for me. However, the grey spinel is gorgeous as well and more affordable. This one's sold out but I liked the color and cut.

https://mdmayagems.com/collections/...uish-gray-spinel-unheated-cushion-cut-1-22-ct


scarsmum said:
I’m confused about “the only criteria is size”. You can get some butt ugly certified honkers, but is that really what you want? Are you saying you really do not care what the stone looks like? You have no preference for color, shape, faceting, light return, inclusion type? Really?
Click to expand...

Interesting. I don't see "butt ugly certified honkers". Is that a special new cert I need to research? ;)2 :lol-2:
 
sledge said:
Very glad I popped in here. Agree, the light & medium greys tend to be my favorite.

Not sure I could swallow that kind of coin for me. However, the grey spinel is gorgeous as well and more affordable. This one's sold out but I liked the color and cut.

https://mdmayagems.com/collections/...uish-gray-spinel-unheated-cushion-cut-1-22-ct
Click to expand...

That is nice. Just note the depth on the stone for a man's ring. You need more material to get sufficient performance (think about August Vintage Oval vs. others). But, some shapes need more depth than others. .

When you are ready to buy, post a thread over on the Colored Stone forum. Lots of amazing folks over there and only some visit us on Rocky Talky. They'll help scour the precision cutter's to help you (you really want precision cut!).

Sorry for the tread-jack!
 
rockysalamander said:
That is nice. Just note the depth on the stone for a man's ring. You need more material to get sufficient performance (think about August Vintage Oval vs. others). But, some shapes need more depth than others. .

When you are ready to buy, post a thread over on the Colored Stone forum. Lots of amazing folks over there and only some visit us on Rocky Talky. They'll help scour the precision cutter's to help you (you really want precision cut!).

Sorry for the tread-jack!
Click to expand...

I should be the one apologizing for the thread-jack. Totally sorry OP.

I'm stepping out of the comments here now, but will be silently following for potential sources. When/if I decide on something besides a plain band I will follow your advise @rockysalamander. As I've stated before, it has to be done right as I'm not a much into fluff and it has to be masculine.

Carry on kiddos. :cool2:
 
rocky salamander said:
When you say big, where you given any actual numbers? I ask because the stone you posted is certainly too large to wear on a daily basis. The stone you posted is larger than I can depict, but the one on the left is 22 mm x 16 mm and the one on the right is 12x10 -- both on a size 6 finger.

upload_2018-8-7_6-18-23.png
Click to expand...
Hi rocky salamander,
Yes, that's about the size I was looking at, as my partner has a number of rings that size,
Rather clunky I know, but that's her style.
Cheers
 
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rockysalamander said:
Real black diamonds cost $1000-$3000 per carat. When they are naturally colored (not irradiated) they can be quite pretty, although will lack the sparkle of more colorless varietals. Dark grey is quite nice, but more expensive. The sparkle of a black diamond will be the facets on the table and crown. You only only going to see sparkle off the table as the light return internal to the crystal is non-existent. Look for a smaller table and large crown facets. A rose cut is actually very successful in black diamonds.

https://www.leibish.com/black-diamonds

I'm not a fan of black irradiated stones, as they are significantly flawed and often quite fragile. Both irridatied and natural stones are so full of inclusions that they can be quite brittle and fragile leading to chips and other damage. These need a protective setting (bezel).

GIA often grades stones as grey that can read as black. This is too small, but shows the point.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ear-shaped/0.27-carat-si1-clarity-sku-4864669

GIA Black Diamond. https://www.asteriadiamonds.com/1-0...amond-marquise-shape-gia-certified-2151958154

For black spinel and (maybe) sapphire, lab-created rough is available for cutters. This will be the same crystal as a natural stone, but created in a lab. They will be structurally more sound than a treated black diamond. You could reach out to one of the following precision cutters and get a quote for a custom-cut stone. You'll be guaranteed to get what you think you are getting in terms of material and they will be cut to maximize light return. The following are all usually happy to work with lab-created rough.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/GeologicSpectrum
https://www.etsy.com/shop/AlternativesLapidary
https://www.etsy.com/shop/WildKatGemCraft?ref=l2-shopheader-name {not sure if he does commission cuts, but worth asking}
Click to expand...
 
Hi RockySalamander,

Thanks for the info, appreciate it.
I realise that the natural diamonds are better, but more expensive,
Hence why I was leaning towards the treated diamonds in order to get the size I wanted.
Problem being I was hoping to have it set into a solitaire setting,
And from your comments, I deduct that this would lead to damage to the stone,
Being 'brittle and fragile' and being so large and unprotected?
Sounds that for the larger size and ring setting that I want a Spinel or Sapphire would be a better choice?
I'll look into these cutters,
Thanks
 
AprilBaby said:
The spinel is much prettier than the diamond you are looking at. I love onyx but I don’t think it would hold up to every day wear. Why do you want such a large stone?
Click to expand...
Hi April Baby,
It's the style of ring that my partner wears, large and chunky. She actually has a large onyx ring a bit bigger than the size I'm looking at, which she absolutely loves and wears quite often.
Thanks
Shannon
 
scarsmum said:
I’m confused about “the only criteria is size”. You can get some butt ugly certified honkers, but is that really what you want? Are you saying you really do not care what the stone looks like? You have no preference for color, shape, faceting, light return, inclusion type? Really?
Click to expand...
Hi Sacrsmum,
No I never said criteria is the only size? My partner would like a big stone, black, preferably in an emerald cut as it's her style, and I'm just trying to get the best looking stone at the size for a reasonable price.
Thanks Shannon
 
Doug does brillant work and a huge black spinel will look fabulous.
I’m imagining (none of my business of course) a white gold or Platinium ring with just 1 suitable size white diamond (set flush into the band) on each side of the Spinel, just where the Spinel meets the metal of the ring.
 
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