Blue diamond question - did we get duped?

[savoybc]

Hi folks,

Last week, my girlfriend and I went to a Helzberg Diamonds store and looked at engagement rings for about a good hour. My girlfriend asked about blue diamonds, and pointed to her earrings, which are treated/enhanced blue diamonds. The associate said she had a natural blue diamond ring and it was the only one left-- after that, no more, gone. It was on clearance priced at $2,299.00.

We didn't really know much anything about diamonds then, and we purchased it. After doing some googling after the fact, we discovered how much blue diamonds really cost (a ton of money!) so we called the Helzberg Diamonds store to mail us the "documents" on the blue diamond ring that we just purchased.

We just got the document today in the mail today. It's not an appraisal or anything, but we noticed that the sales associate applied white out on a small part of the document on the part that reads "14 karat white gold 3 stone ring with 1 round brilliant cut diamond weighing approximately 1/2CTW( RT BL) ....." (bold to place emphasis on the whiteout area - it's where it says RT BL).

We flipped the document around and shined some sunlight through it - and sure enough, the letter that white out was applied on was a T - so it actually reads as TRT BL. Does this mean it is a treated blue diamond and not a real blue diamond?

I scanned the document so you could all read it. Also masked my name/address for my own security. Here is the scanned document: http://s23.postimg.org/cwcajeq8r/blue_diamond_q.jpg

Does TRT BL mean it's a treated blue diamond? I tried googling some jewelry acronyms and didn't really find anything on the TRT acronym.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Niel]

I'm certain its treated. I'd return it. Whether or not its a value, which I don't think it is, but this vendor is unscrupulous and I would not give them my money.

 

[noscrusir]

Any vendor who would try to white out ANYTHING they give me on paper is one I would not do business with. Helzberg is a pretty large chain dealer so I'm optimistic that they would refund your money than risk the bad publicity. Best of luck!

 

[Gypsy]

I don't know if you got duped. You were ignorant and the sales person probably was too. Or worse.

Your lady pointed to her Treated Blue Diamonds. And you guys didn't ask for UNtreated Blue Diamonds. So they gave you Treated Blue Diamonds. The sales person said the diamond was natural and IT IS. It's also treated. So... did they lie or was an honest ignorant error on the sales person's part? A diamond can be both natural and treated.

For 3K you can afford to buy a 8-13 POINT (100 points to a carat) natural VERY light or a grey blue diamond. Here: http://www.leibish.com/blue-diamonds

You got exactly what you paid for. And what you asked for, especially by pointing to those treated blue earrings (treated blues have a different color than natural blues). What you didn't get is what you THOUGHT you were getting, but that's because you didn't know how to ask for it.

As for the white out? Well I wouldn't have bought from Helzberg before and I certainly am not going to now.

But yes, I can guarantee you that the stone is treated. If that's not what you wanted then return the ring. If you love it... you didn't get ripped off exactly. It's vaguely worth what you paid.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Wow. Well if the store led you to believe you were getting a natural untreated blue half carat, then yes, it appears you were duped. And the whiteout issue could indicate intent which is a different thing from miscommunication by an untrained employee.
I assume TRT would mean treated, but I don't think that is at all sufficient enough to put on an invoice to describe the nature of the stone. And I have no idea what RT would mean! It's a pretty lame document all around.

I guess your next step is to determine what you want to get out of it. I'm sure you could get your money back. But if you like the piece, you might want to take a different approach.

Maybe one of the outstanding appraisers here will comment.

 

[chrono]

When most people say "natural" diamond/gem, they usually mean that it was created from the earth, in that it is not synthetic. It says nothing about it being treated or untreated. This is why I prefer to specify "untreated diamond", rather than "natural diamond". In a sense, you were misled by omission. The white-out though is another matter.

 

[Niel]

When most people say "natural" diamond/gem, they usually mean that it was created from the earth, in that it is not synthetic. It says nothing about it being treated or untreated. This is why I prefer to specify "untreated diamond", rather than "natural diamond". In a sense, you were misled by omission. The white-out though is another matter.

I'd want to hear more about the convo. He said he started off the convo by pointing out his girlfriends blue diamond earrings. They knew they were treated. If they had mentioned they were treated, and then the seller said " well we have a natural blue over here" then it seems like as though they are implying its different than the treated blues the OP brought up. See what I mean? If the idea of treated blues was brought up, then excluding it in your further conversation seems deliberately misleading. Especially coupled with the fact they modified the "certificate" to exclude the comment about treatment.

 

[Gypsy]

When most people say "natural" diamond/gem, they usually mean that it was created from the earth, in that it is not synthetic. It says nothing about it being treated or untreated. This is why I prefer to specify "untreated diamond", rather than "natural diamond". In a sense, you were misled by omission. The white-out though is another matter.

I'd want to hear more about the convo. He said he started off the convo by pointing out his girlfriends blue diamond earrings. They knew they were treated. If they had mentioned they were treated, and then the seller said " well we have a natural blue over here" then it seems like as though they are implying its different than the treated blues the OP brought up. See what I mean? If the idea of treated blues was brought up, then excluding it in your further conversation seems deliberately misleading. Especially coupled with the fact they modified the "certificate" to exclude the comment about treatment.

That's assuming the sales person was knowledgeable.

I've been to Helzberg on and off over the years (there always seems to be one near me). Their sales people are a lot of things but KNOWLEDGEABLE is never one of them.

They might have honestly thought that her earrings were not natural diamonds. And that natural and treated are mutually exclusive. They have some INCREDIBLY ignorant sales people there.

 

[chrono]

Niel,
I read through the original post again and interpreted it as to mean the stone isn't synthetic. Remember that PSers are savvy and educated about gemstones. Most know more than regular B&M store employees. I'm afraid you might be giving the saleslady too much knowledge credit.

At the very least, the OP should return to the store and ask the manager about the whitened out part. Price-wise, he probably paid slightly more than he should, but he wasn't ripped off.

 

[Niel]

Niel,
I read through the original post again and interpreted it as to mean the stone isn't synthetic. Remember that PSers are savvy and educated about gemstones. Most know more than regular B&M store employees. I'm afraid you might be giving the saleslady too much knowledge credit.

At the very least, the OP should return to the store and ask the manager about the whitened out part. Price-wise, he probably paid slightly more than he should, but he wasn't ripped off.

Oh quite possibly, I just think that based on the little the op stated, he very well could have been mislead. Id need more info to make the determination.

 

[WinkHPD]

Completely unethical, and illegal in all 50 states. Such a treatment must be disclosed under FTC rulings and regulations.

Ignorance on the part of the sales associate is no excuse.

This type of behavior is reprehensible as well as stupid as well as illegal.

DANG! What is wrong with people that they would do something this stupid and NOT EXPECT TO GET CAUGHT?

Wink, who is fairly disgusted with stupid people today.

P.S. If she did not know, why did she apply white out?

P.P.S. If she did not know, what in the HECK is she doing on the floor talking about them being natural diamonds.

 

[Niel]

Completely unethical, and illegal in all 50 states. Such a treatment must be disclosed under FTC rulings and regulations.

Ignorance on the part of the sales associate is no excuse.

This type of behavior is reprehensible as well as stupid as well as illegal.

DANG! What is wrong with people that they would do something this stupid and NOT EXPECT TO GET CAUGHT?

Wink, who is fairly disgusted with stupid people today.

P.S. If she did not know, why did she apply white out?

P.P.S. If she did not know, what in the HECK is she doing on the floor talking about them being natural diamonds.

Exactly what I'm thinking.

 

[savoybc]

Thanks for the responses so far! Niel, you asked for more info on the conversation. Here's how it went:

We asked the associate if she had any blue diamond rings and were told she had one natural blue diamond. We asked if it was a blue diamond since it looked different than the earrings and the associate said the earrings were enhanced diamonds and held the ring next to the earrings to show difference in color. The associate said the side stones were colorless and that the entire ring was one karat (carat?). The associate also told us she has been working for Helzberg for 10 years.

Based on what folks said in this thread, it seems to be pretty certain that the blue diamond is treated after all. I'm not totally happy with the white out on the Helzberg certificate because it seems like she was trying to hide it.

 

[Niel]

Ugh. Just what I though. That's outright deception.


Any chance you could post a pic of the ring.

 

[lambskin]

Return it now ! Consumer fraud in the white out. But if you delay they could say that YOU did the white out and the written representations trump the oral representations.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Lack of training and education is a huge problem in large chain stores but that's no excuse. If one doesn't know the correct answer, turn the sale over to someone that does! I met a salesperson many weeks ago who asked me the meaning of "750" stamped inside a ring. The sales associate has been selling jewelry for 15 years. I was speechless at first.... then I replied "18K."

 

[savoybc]

Three pictures of the ring that we bought:

http://s27.postimg.org/6l027kscj/image.jpg

http://s28.postimg.org/9s11afasd/image.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/ke6wsoxbr/image.jpg

 

[Gypsy]

OKAY.

Yes, that is outright deception.

Return it then AFTER you've returned it report them.

Does your lady like sapphires? Cause unless you come into a TON of money a natural blue isn't happening. But sapphires are gorgeous and they come in all kinds of shades.

 

[Niel]

would you have still purchased it if they were upfront with you and told you it was treated??

If so, you have the option of still buying a treated diamond from a reputable vendor and that way you know youre getting a fair price.

also, there are blue diamonds that are lab grown, we cant go into too much detail in this subforum, but pricescope does have a forum dedicated to lab grown diamonds, and im certain they could find you a half ct blue diamond in a diamond and for a similar price.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/laboratory-grown-diamonds-man-made-diamonds-mmd.60/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/laboratory-grown-diamonds-man-made-diamonds-mmd.60/[/URL]

otherwise, there are lots of other options for you including white diamonds, yellow or brown diamonds, and sapphire!

dont get down, but do go strait into Helzburg and dont take no for an answer, get that refund.

 

[momhappy]

As another poster mentioned, treated blue is a very different color than an untreated blue (and quite obvious). I can't imagine that anyone would go in buying a colored diamond and not know the difference….
Having said that, it sounds like the jeweler was being deceptive and you should absolutely seek a return.

 

[Niel]

As another poster mentioned, treated blue is a very different color than an untreated blue (and quite obvious). I can't imagine that anyone would go in buying a colored diamond and not know the difference….
Having said that, it sounds like the jeweler was being deceptive and you should absolutely seek a return.

I dont think thats fair or necessarily accurate statement. I mean yes, they are very different in terms of price and look, but i can imagine a lot of people off of PS that wouldnt necessarily know the difference.

Also its not the uninformed consumer's job to know the difference between completely natural and irradiated diamonds. Ideally you should get informed, but it doesnt excuse a store for exploiting your ignorance. So I agree with you there.

 

[Karl_K]

As another poster mentioned, treated blue is a very different color than an untreated blue (and quite obvious). I can't imagine that anyone would go in buying a colored diamond and not know the difference….
Having said that, it sounds like the jeweler was being deceptive and you should absolutely seek a return.

There are different shades of treated blues and the color has gotten better over the years.
There are also different ways to get the blue color now.
They are no longer always the teal blue to tealish blue that everyone expects treated blues to be like.
I consider all blues to be treated until proven otherwise by a GIA report proven to match the diamond.

 

[savoybc]

Thank you folks! My fiancé read all of your comments and she will decide on what she wants me to do with the ring. I'll keep you posted.

 

[arkieb1]

You are not going to be able to purchase a untreated blue diamond for that price. I'd return the ring personally but if she likes it then goodluck with your decision.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thank you folks! My fiancé read all of your comments and she will decide on what she wants me to do with the ring. I'll keep you posted.

You both sound pretty level headed and are taking the situation in stride. I am sure you will get it worked out to your satisfaction.

However you resolve the matter, it is important that you report it- at least to industry organizations that have some influence over the behavior of trade members. I am not sure if all the Helzbergs stores are members of the AGS but I know some are. Please contact AGS at some point and give them an account of your experience. (Even if the store works this out with you to your satisfaction, and I believe they will). The kind of verbal and written confusion involved in this transaction is inexcusable and needs to be addressed.
http://www.americangemsociety.org/contact-us

I would still like to hear Neil Beatty or Dave Atlas discuss the invoice document. I believe it is wholly inadequate for a purchase such as this, and most likely fails to comply with FTC guidelines.

 

[FancyIntense]

Here is a yellow and pink diamond ring with white diamonds they are all natural non treated. They are from a trusted vendor here on Pricescope Diamonds by Lauren who specialized in fancy colored diamonds. Pretty awesome fancy light yellow and pink diamonds in your price range plus there is 5% off if you do wire transfer payment which is real easy.

The rest of the links are sapphires. Sorry to hear what happened. I though this might help since you will be looking again after your return.

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-and-pink-diamond-ring-33ct-fancy-light-yellow-vs1-radiant-cut-with-fancy-pink-diamond-halo-r4416

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-sapphire-123ct-pink-antique-cushion-nice-cut-and-sparkle-r3196

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-pink-sapphire-146ct-pink-pear-shape-sapphire-beautiful-shape-r5416

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-sapphire-83-purple-rounded-square-kewl-color-lilac-r3228

 

[momhappy]

As another poster mentioned, treated blue is a very different color than an untreated blue (and quite obvious). I can't imagine that anyone would go in buying a colored diamond and not know the difference….
Having said that, it sounds like the jeweler was being deceptive and you should absolutely seek a return.

I dont think thats fair or necessarily accurate statement. I mean yes, they are very different in terms of price and look, but i can imagine a lot of people off of PS that wouldnt necessarily know the difference.

Also its not the uninformed consumer's job to know the difference between completely natural and irradiated diamonds. Ideally you should get informed, but it doesnt excuse a store for exploiting your ignorance. So I agree with you there.

You're right - I agree that a lot of folks might not know the difference. However, in this case, the GF specifically asked about blue diamonds (and even owns treated blue diamonds), so the assumption is that there is some prior knowledge in this particular case. Still doesn't excuse the store deception, which obviously should be the focal point of this issue. I agree also that it is not necessarily the consumers job to know the difference, but if you're seeking out something as specific as blue diamonds, one would think that you ought to do some research before a purchase is made.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Mom happy, this color blue is quite nice. Did you look? Usually, as Wink said, they are teal blue. Nice ring.


Annette

 

[VRBeauty]

I don't know what the industry standard is, but I've seen e-bay sellers advertising treated diamonds as "natural blue" because, presumably, the stone is a natural (vs. man-made or lab grown) diamond. In other words, they seem to be trying to market on the distinction between a "natural, blue (but treated)" stone and a "naturally blue" stone. To me this goes beyond splitting hairs and ventures into deception, but I suspect their strategy is bullet-proof in ebay's eyes.

A doctored "document" is, of course, a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[momhappy]

Hi,

Mom happy, this color blue is quite nice. Did you look? Usually, as Wink said, they are teal blue. Nice ring.


Annette

Yes, of course I looked and while the blue is lovely, it looks like a treated blue to me. With a blue that intense, one should expect to pay thousands. For example, DBL sold a .29ct fancy blue radiant cut stone (stone alone/no setting) for $14,195 - obviously, lots of factors go into the price tag of a diamond, but that's a ballpark of what one might expect to pay for a fancy intense blue stone.
Again, that really isn't the hot-button issue here though. The real issue is that it sounds like the salesperson outright lied and a document was tampered with and clearly, that needs to be addressed.