Blue Fluorescence in Diamonds

[MamaBee]

Gorgeous!

Would not expect medium fluoro to ever cause a transparency issue.

Thank you @Texas Leaguer! I also have an ACA!

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

Because color is so subjective, I would assume the same is true for the effects of fluorescence.

Debate away gentlemen. While I find the topic and discussion very interesting, I'll let my own eyes be the guide.

 

[Karl_K]

I'll let my own eyes be the guide.

That is what it comes down to.
Some will like it some wont.
What I do have a problem with is those in the trade that over hype it or down it to much. (its generally fair here)
Its not the savior of all that's carbon and its not evil incarnate.

The biggest thing is there are a boatload of variables inherent with diamond, florescence, human eyesight, and lighting that saying exactly the opposite things could both be correct but under different conditions or with a different diamond.

 

[Karl_K]

To answer the OPs question about how I feel, opinion and science either way its fun to think about but in the end who cares, I like it! Simple as that.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Three people from the trade of unquestionable experience and integrity arguing. This should be pay-per-view.
One rat research with GIA: My L Asscher has med. blue fluor, looks like a J and icy white in natural light.
My K EC has faint blue fluor, looks like a K indoors and goes quite blue in sunlight.
Maybe GIA has human beings grading color and fluorescence. But I will always look for their report as a starting point.
Thank you, gentlemen.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Four people!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Lets show you Bryan.
To dispel the argument that UV light that causes color whitening in blue fluorescent diamonds does not pass through windows.
This bathroom door is 10mm thick or 0.4 inches! Much thicker than normal windows and probably about the same as many double glazed windows.

The center diamond is GIA Medium Blue. Clearly the diamonds are fluorescing.

What is more, the long wave frequency used for grading fluorescence has around half the effect as these simple cheap torches which work in the near visible range.

It is for this reason that earlier tests (with the wrong light meters) are totally irrelevant. This simple test shows that very long wave UV that is in the just or near visible range does pass through windows.

Garry,
I don't think anyone is arguing that UV cannot pass through clear glass.
The fact remains that intensity diminishes rapidly with distance from the source. If the diamond is inches away from a source of intense UV/VV a reaction can occur. A couple of feet away, it's a different story altogether.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The fact remains that intensity diminishes rapidly with distance from the source.

Bryan, Thankfully, the subject at hand is by no means at serious as all the other stuff folks seem to be arguing about these days...so please don't mistake my natural NY'er skeptisism/aggressive responses as anything but aimed at lively discussion. Based on reading your posts over the years, it's clear that you and I agree on so many more important aspects.
Now, back to the "discussion"

Fact? If so, we need to see definitive studies showing the amount of diminutiuon. And specifically, how it would affect Medium, Faint, and or Strong Blue?
Because real-life experience is contrary to what you are claiming is fact.
eta- re-reading the "fact"...I will agree. Distance from the source matters. So how many million miles are we from the sun? Say we move the diamond 20 feet further from the source ( the sun). Percentage-wise, how does 20 feel compare to millions of miles?

One more point- if there are no transparency issues possible due to fluorescence, why would your brand exclude SB stones?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

The intensity of UV in direct sunlight is orders of magnitude greater than any indoor lighting. (It can cook your skin, damage your vision, and even change your DNA. Yet you can sit in an office with fluorescent fixtures every day for years and decades an not experience these effects.

There is a dramatic dropoff when sunlight is diffused by clouds. Further dramatic dropoff if you are outdoors but under a shade tree. A window also diminishes the intensity of sunlight, varying with different factors such as whether the window has a film on it, type and thickness of the glass, if sun is direct, indirect, diffused etc.

The intensity of UV coming from an overhead fixture drops dramatically within inches from the source, to the point that standard UV meters cannot even detect it at a distance of a few feet.

In the other threads we went through demonstrations with LUX and UV meters. For anyone interested in seeing those measurements, they can be found by searching pricescope fluorescence threads.

Re: no transparency issues possible due to fluorescence
Who said that? It was not me.

What I did say is that if a diamond has a transparency issue caused solely by fluorescence, if you take that stone away from light rich in UV/VV intense enough to activate the fluourescent effect, it will become transparent. Which is most real life lighting environments. Hence, the stigma against fluoro is as overblown as the supposed benefits of fluoro whitening.

 

[LLJsmom]

Because color is so subjective, I would assume the same is true for the effects of fluorescence.

Debate away gentlemen. While I find the topic and discussion very interesting, I'll let my own eyes be the guide.

I agree. There definitely seems to be a list for both pros and cons. (I had a medium fluor F, and I didn't notice the fluor. But I passed on fluor the second time around for different reasons.) If there was a list of both, people could evaluate for themselves and figure out what works for them in their specific situation. For example, a person who is indoors without sunlight 70% of their lives may make a different choice from someone who is outdoors 70% of their days. Some people who prioritize resale value on the market at large may choose something different from someone who never intends on selling. Different people, different priorities.

 

[diamondsR4eVR]

I had/have two diamonds with SBF.

1) was a total dud and very milky and cloudy. It was so disappointing.

2)I am surprised I wear a SBF ER every day now. I swore them off for many (many!) years, but I truly love my ring and have no regrets.

 

[Rockdiamond]

What I did say is that if a diamond has a transparency issue caused solely by fluorescence, if you take that stone away from light rich in UV/VV intense enough to activate the fluourescent effect, it will become transparent. Which is most real life lighting environments.

"Real life".....interesting choice of words.
Needless to say- this is at the crux of the issue.
Say I'm looking at a diamond in the dark. A bathroom with no window, door closed, lights off.
In these circumstances, no diamond is dull. I can't see my hand in front of my face, but there's no impact on the brilliance of the diamond based on fluorescence.
Now say it's low light. A dimly lit real life room ( like if you ever invite me out for a candle-lit dinner....now, over our steaks, we can pick up flashes on our well cut RBC's, and other shapes. If there's enough light to clearly make out the shape, you can get sparkles. Both the D and the J well cut diamonds are winking back at us.
But in a candle-lit room, we cannot detect subtle color differences. We really can't see the difference between a D and a J, face up. Even here, the dullness of an "over blue" is apparent. In this hypothetical story, I happen to have one of these dull fluorescent diamonds in my pocket for just such an opportunity. But it's not winking back at us. It's dull, even now.
We stay so late they turn up the lights ( spoiling that romantic mood) Now the dull fluorescent diamond is still dull- at night, in bright lighting.
It's dull in sunlight- any old time.

Back to real real life-
I have seen many stones that were graded VS or better, strong blue that were dull in any lighting scenario bright enough to make out sparkle.
I simulate that candlelit dinner by holding the diamond under my desk.
You don't need a specific UV light to detect such stones.

Maybe I get to see more of them because I look at wacky goods all the time.
In fancy colors, there are times even the dullness doesn't exclude desirability. Fancy Grey, or Fancy White for example.

In yellow diamonds, it's sometimes simple to pick out the fl ones- sometimes not. And generally due to the dullness factor.....like they're "watery".
Although I suggest avoiding MB/SB on FY, FIY, FVY stones in general.... in rare cases, some of the strongest examples in these colors do have Fluorescence with benefits the color.