brown diamond vs topaz & its 2 sad ruby friends

[digdeep]

That cleaning really helped. I'm a sucker for nature's colors and it reminds me of a warm summer's day. Please keep us in the loop as this process unfolds and Congrat's again!

 

[pregcurious]

Congratulations! I didn't realize that AGL would ever help you on the spot. Did you work with Chris Smith?

I would go to Rocky Talky and get a recommendation for a diamond recutter who is experienced with colored diamonds. Diamond recutting requires different tools than colored stone cutting, and therefore the trades people who do it are different.

Because your stone is pretty clean (VS2), maybe you can cut it into an emerald cut. An emerald cut, or other step cuts, are very elegant, but they can show flaws. If you want it to sparkle, and want to increase the intensity of the color, you may want to consider a radiant cut. The increased facets of a radiant cut (vs. emerald) makes the light bounce within the stone more before it exits, and from what I understand, this can make the color more intense. A cutter who is experienced with colored diamonds will be able to advise you best. Perhaps Kenny or our posters who are experienced in colored diamonds will chime in.

GIA, AGL, and other labs will not give you an appraisal. You can go to a reputable appraiser and get an insurance and/or replacement value appraisal. A reputable appraiser's services are not cheap. In NYC, I would expect to pay $100-$200 for an appraisal. I got one in the DC area from Martin Fuller, which included shots of the inclusions under a microscope (with a 10X loupe, my stone is clean), and testing that it was an untreated stone.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Congratulations!

I have to admit this was quite a story. Usually, we hear stories of people with large topazes convinced that they are diamonds, not someone with a diamond convinced it is a topaz

Pregcurious has already said everything I was going to, so I will stick to daying how happy I am for you.

 

[movie zombie]

hot dang! its a color diamond!
i'm telling you, i'd rock that thing as an e-ring in a heart beat.....
but its not your dream so a pendant or right hand ring?

 

[periwinklegirl]

Yippee, congratulations! That's fantastic!

I agree with a bunch of pregcurious' points. Step cut vs radiant. The radiant cut would likely make it look more brown, but will give you more flashes. A step cut will show off the simple beauty of the stone. Maybe go to a jeweler and spend some time with both kinds of cuts to help form an opinion.

I had a diamond recut by Brian Gavin and I can't recommend him enough. I found him through asking on here. You could at least email them and ask if he cuts step cuts and does he have any pics?

If you're thinking of having it recut, the recut will affect the value significantly.

Good luck!

 

[chatbandit]

thanks everyone! At AGL i worked with a lovely Thai woman named Monroodee (spelling probably butchered) who had incredible knowledge of brown diamonds. Also she consulted with Chris and a few others which I was happy to hear.

I've just come back from the appraisal and I'm a bit surprised by the results. Also, I found the pricing structure frustrating. It doesn't feel fair that the price of the appraisal should be relative to the carat size. It seems as archaic as Macy's with their appraisal fee being 1% of appraised stone cost. Also, the appraiser kept referring to the stone as a her and even as Brunetta (Brownetta) it made me laugh. So now the added confusion of determining a name for it not to mention setting / recut etc.

Either way, this will likely not be my last appraisal. While I'm not looking to continue spending money just on assessing this stone (my future fiance keeps saying that it's $ we could be putting into the e-ring! but I feel that I need more data. Re: Lady_Disdain's comment about people thinking they have something special vs vice versa, this is the exact opposite of me! I always assume the worst until proven otherwise. That way anything positive is a thrilling discovery! But in this case, I think it's also a little tied into my desire to not wear this stone as an e-ring. (not that i hoped it wasnt real, but it being topaz would have certainly helped me ignore it and focus on the yellow diamond I want!)

That said, I'm not complaining -- it has all been such a happy and unexpected outcome. Just need to focus now on whether there's a way to re-cut it to make it an e-ring I'd be happy with and on finding vendors who can help do that!

 

[chrono]

Hit and run post; too busy to write my explanations which I'll address later tonight.
Coloured diamonds - GIA is #1. I would not get an AGL report.
Is your FCD determined to be untreated? This is key!
GIA will give it a colour grading which is key to its valuation.
FCDs are cut to enhance colour. You have sufficient depth but I would only trust someone who understands FCDs to recut it, not a colourless lapidary.

 

[chatbandit]

oh that's helpful info, I thought AGL was as reputable as GIA for colored stone? It has been determined to be color untreated as well as unheated. That said, I would be interested in the color grading. Thanks for the hit and run post and I look forward to your explanations later, Chrono!

 

[chrono]

AGL = coloured stones (excludes coloured diamonds)
GIA = all diamonds including coloured, which yours is.

What I am trying to write is that your stone, although coloured, is considered a diamond, which is why my preference is GIA over AGL, and also the reason why many advised you earlier to determine whether it is a diamond or a coloured stone, and from there, you'll know whether to fork out the money for a GIA or AGL report.

With a GIA report, you'll know not only the hue (which AGL called an orangish brown IIRC), but the saturation (fancy, intense, vivid or anything in-between) and tone. Knowing this exact colouration will give you a pretty good ballpark idea as to your FCD's valuation. From there, you can decide how much you want to tweak the cut. Getting the right lapidary here is very important because FCDs are all about colour, not sparkle. By going with the perfect cut, you could very well lose enough colour that its valuation drops significantly. This doesn't mean you have to accept the cut as it is; perhaps minor tweaking is all it needs, that balance between cut and colour.

 

[PinkyPie]

Omygosh! What a great read this thread was!! You definitely want a GIA report on that baby.

 

[Niel]

Oh my GOSH!!!!!

how amazing!

Honestly I would recut it to the most stunning emerald cut GoG could possibly do! And I know its not your dream, but would you consider wearing it? Brown isn't yellow I know, but shoot a stone that large I'd wear in any color!! Plus, I've seen a stunning brown three stone before. And shoot with that finger coverage you don't even need a halo!

 

[movie zombie]

and don't forget as mentioned above: recut is going to mean loss of material which will reduce its value.
however, perhaps you'd enjoy it recut and use it as an e-ring in which case a recut may be and/or is the route to go.
stating the obvious: once its cut, its cut and there is no going back.
if you're not wanting it as an e-ring, why not just let it sit and not rush into any decisions?
no sin in that.....or having it set as a pendant or RHR and dealing with it later.
what is important is that you have the e-ring YOU want and will be happy with hopefully for years.

 

[Niel]

Re: brown diamond vs topaz & its 2 sad ruby friends

and don't forget as mentioned above: recut is going to mean loss of material which will reduce its value.
however, perhaps you'd enjoy it recut and use it as an e-ring in which case a recut may be and/or is the route to go.
stating the obvious: once its cut, its cut and there is no going back.
if you're not wanting it as an e-ring, why not just let it sit and not rush into any decisions?
no sin in that.....or having it set as a pendant or RHR and dealing with it later.
what is important is that you have the e-ring YOU want and will be happy with hopefully for years.

I agree with all the above. You should love it. No body else. But as now I am obsessed as that would make a stunning unbelievable rediculous e ring, here I go dreaming.
Like this.

Or one plain halo in rose gold with pink melee... oh golly.

 

[derbygal]

Niel, that is my favorite celeb ring ever! I was thinking the same thing for this stone. Congrats on it being a diamond. So excited to see what you do with it!

 

[carmen1]

Getting the right lapidary here is very important because FCDs are all about colour, not sparkle. By going with the perfect cut, you could very well lose enough colour that its valuation drops significantly. This doesn't mean you have to accept the cut as it is; perhaps minor tweaking is all it needs, that balance between cut and colour.

I wholeheartedly agree with this - which is why I'd suggest you consult an expert in fancy colored diamonds regarding a possible recut rather than someone who may be highly regarded on RockyTalk but deals primarly with near colorless stones - I think in this case you should definitely seek out the advice of an expert in colored diamonds.... a recommendation from David at DBL would be my starting point, which should be especially easy since you are in NYC.

ETA: Although a GIA report would have been preferred for a diamond, at this point since you have already shelled out $350 for an AGL report and you plan to keep the diamond, I personally wouldn't bother with spending money on another lab report.

 

[chatbandit]

who's is that celeb ring? it's STUNNING! all this excitement from you all makes me so happy! if I hadn't discovered PS it would probably be sitting in a box and I would be totally unaware of its value! i'm trying to get excited about it as an e-ring but am not sure I can. 1 - i'm scared of recutting it. and 2- its just not what i pictured.

 

[Niel]

who's is that celeb ring? it's STUNNING! all this excitement from you all makes me so happy! if I hadn't discovered PS it would probably be sitting in a box and I would be totally unaware of its value! i'm trying to get excited about it as an e-ring but am not sure I can. 1 - i'm scared of recutting it. and 2- its just not what i pictured.

Its kristen bells I think her's is only 3cts (only ) I think it would be cute how it is or with long baguettes instead. The thin bezel is sooooo cool. I mean shoot with the budget you were going to spend on your ring you could recut and get a stunning hand forged ring .... but again. I'm just dreaming for you.

 

[carmen1]

That ring is stunning!

 

[movie zombie]

.....i'm trying to get excited about it as an e-ring but am not sure I can. 1 - i'm scared of recutting it. and 2- its just not what i pictured.

this says it all.
1-do not rush yourself on this.
2-do not rush yourself on getting a recut just to please PS.
3-consider just putting it back in the box and thinking about it.
4-why? because it is NOT what you pictured as an e-ring.
5-after putting it back in the box put it in a drawer.
6-keep looking for what you want as an e-ring.
7-if you don't find it you always have that box in the drawer!
8-if you feel obligated to set it do so but you do NOT have to cut it right now but can have it done later.
9- if you do have it set then you can wear it as a right hand ring and see what you think of it.
10-if you still don't like it put it back in the box and back into the drawer.
11-see #6!!!!!!
12-do not feel guilty if you do not use it as an e-ring.
13-do use it as a pendant or RHR if not now, some day.
14-do not feel guilty because some of us want to rock that stone!!!!!!
15-see 11!

we're an opinionated bunch. we like what we like. you have the same right and ability to do the same. if you do not like this stone as an e-ring just say so and move on. if you want help re a pendant or RHR we are here. you've been given good advice re making sure it is a color diamond cutting expert if you do decide later to go for a recut.

your dream e-ring is out there! you won't find it if you 2nd guess yourself on this. stay true to your gut feeling and go with that. you'll have time later to deal with it!

 

[Rosebloom]

Re: brown diamond vs topaz & its 2 sad ruby friends

Oh my gosh this thread is going to make me hyperventilate!!!

Obviously, you have to love your ering. That's very important.

But... If it was me...

I'd rush in to see David at DBL to evaluate the stone for a recut. Ideally an emerald cut. Then I'd take it to GIA for a new report. Then I'd take it to Leon Mege who has made some spectacular FCD rings and ask his setting advice. Then I'd have him make me my dream ring!! Maybe one of his amazing step cut five stones? Or a rose gold white diamond halo (might pull out the pinky orange undertones)? I'll pay some inspiration pictures later when on my computer.

What an amazing find!!!

 

[Rosebloom]

Re: brown diamond vs topaz & its 2 sad ruby friends

And I ditto what MZ said above

 

[chrono]

MZ and I are of the same mind the last few days ; do not rush or feel pressured. If it is not the one for you, then it is not the one for you, no matter how much others would love to have it as an e-ring.

 

[VapidLapid]

I have a nearly 5 carat brown diamond, uncut. If it were cut it would make for a sorely disappointing gem.
A small ugly stone is one thing, a larger ugly stone is only larger, which is to say more (ugly) in your face.
If everyday, you look at your hand and see a ring you did not want, that does not appeal to you and does not make you happy it will eat at you all your life.
I think heirlooms are great. I love the idea of passing on special and precious totems that have come to have a family lineage imbued in them. I do not get the sense that this stone has that kind of meaning. It is large and as a diamond has some value despite its being unattractive. In situations like this I am all for using the would be heirloom as leverage to create a meaningful piece. Specifically, I am saying that you can take the value from the stone ( by liquidating it) and turning it into the ring stone that makes you mad with happiness. That then is fine and worthy heirloom.

 

[pregcurious]

I agree with the posters who said you should love your ering. _You_ will have to wear it everyday. No one else.

 

[digdeep]

Liquidating it would not happen for me, no matter what (oop's those are your shoes I'm stepping into!). You have some serious 'time' to consider this Diamond. My steps would be: taking some deep breaths and securing the stone in a safe place or insuring it if kept at home. Regardless of what you decide for an e ring this stone has quite the story and family history behind it. Give yourself some space to look at settings and stones (not just the diamond) and try to relax. This has been an ambush of large proportion and you owe yourself some space. All of us here are so excited because we are living vicariously through you. A lot of good information about choices and resources has been shared.....mull it over, take some time, think about it again and oh yea..........have a glass of bubbly to celebrate how far you've come with this stone! There's more fun ahead no matter what you decide.........

 

[chatbandit]

Liquidating it would not happen for me, no matter what

i was of that mindset RIGHT up until i saw big lemony.

loopiness aside, I dropped brownie off at GIA (same building as AGL so crazy) to get it certed. they were less amenable to my persuasions and it will be a solid 3-5 days. since I got there earlyish I think the earliest I'll get it back would be thursday end of day, more realistically friday or next week. after that i'm back to a new appraiser for what i'm convinced will be an epic drop in value. I'm also pushing the appraiser I just went to to re-evaluate his appraisal given the AGL vs GIA specifications and how much i (over)paid him. We shall see!

 

[eastjavaman]

Looks like re-cut is order for me, but at least get an estimate on how many carats will you lose before making decision, that being said the diamond looks just nice (I love big stones) for your finger. Congrats.

Close up shots for the rubies please.

and of course the GIA cert of your bling2 is compulsory to be posted

I almost forgot, since your stone happens to be a diamond and not topaz, you are in the wrong forum (just kidding)

 

[dragonfly411]

Chatbandit - I would take time to consider the stone. I would also STRONGLY recommend getting your SO and his family's opinions before re-cutting a stone. Everyone here needs to simmer down about that a bit, b/c they could very well take offense to the stone being re-cut to a smaller (though better cut) size. Take time to look at rings with brown stones to see if that is what you like for an engagement ring. Don't let anyone pressure you about it at all! Congrats, this is a really cool story!

 

[movie zombie]

Chatbandit - I would take time to consider the stone. I would also STRONGLY recommend getting your SO and his family's opinions before re-cutting a stone. Everyone here needs to simmer down about that a bit, b/c they could very well take offense to the stone being re-cut to a smaller (though better cut) size. Take time to look at rings with brown stones to see if that is what you like for an engagement ring. Don't let anyone pressure you about it at all! Congrats, this is a really cool story!

worth repeating......

 

[iLander]

Wow!

I'd get it recut, just a little, to up the sparkle, and try to retain the weight and dimensions as much as possible.

Jerry Newman does that all the time for colored stones, but he doesn't do diamonds. So it CAN be done, don't let anyone talk you into a major reduction. A modified emerald cut would be awesome, it will flash dramatically with every movement.

The people over in Rocky Talk can give you the name of good cutters.