Burma Blues at NSC

[kenny]

Thanks FC for the honest feedback.
Believe it or not, I'm listening and learning.

Sometimes the best way to learn is to state a bunch of misconceptions.

 

[kenny]

So why are some prices published and some secret at the same vendor?

Any theories?

 

[Indylady]

I don't think its a secret per-se, but rather than collectors of very fine gemstones don't want others to know how much they've paid for a piece in their collection, so its a method to keep those who know the true cost limited. One of Richard Wise's articles even says that if a fine gem has been showed too much, some buyers will shy away from it.

 

[FrekeChild]

I don't think its a secret per-se, but rather than collectors of very fine gemstones don't want others to know how much they've paid for a piece in their collection, so its a method to keep those who know the true cost limited. One of Richard Wise's articles even says that if a fine gem has been showed too much, some buyers will shy away from it.

This makes a lot of sense, the more I think about it...If a buyer knows that many people have looked at it, sometimes they will think, "Well if THEY thought it was undesirable for some reason, they must be right. Or they must see something I don't!"

Hmmm....

 

[kenny]

One of Richard Wise's articles even says that if a fine gem has been showed too much, some buyers will shy away from it.

This makes a lot of sense, the more I think about it...If a buyer knows that many people have looked at it, sometimes they will think, "Well if THEY thought it was undesirable for some reason, they must be right. Or they must see something I don't!"

Hmmm....

How many buyers have rejected a stone has nothing to do with whether the price was published or secret.

They can reject it with a published price.
They can reject it with a secret price after calling.

Of course the seller WILL know how many rejected it if the price was secret so I'm pretty sure secret pricing is all about getting the highest price possible for a gem.
If I'm the vendor I can start high and after a few inquires I will have information to gauge the responses of the market so I can gradually come down to a price it finally sells at, but not one penny below that.
A published price may have been lower than that (which made some money evaporate) , or the published price may have been set higher with no chance to haggle with the customer that never bother calling - hence a lost sale.

 

[empress]

If you noted with Wise's sale - he said that stones without posted prices are more than $5000. Richard will give you the price of any stone you ask about - his quality is assured. His prices are for his experienced and expert eye in picking stones.

One I asked about was over $80,000...that sure took the wind out of my sails!

 

[T L]

If you noted with Wise's sale - he said that stones without posted prices are more than $5000. Richard will give you the price of any stone you ask about - his quality is assured. His prices are for his experienced and expert eye in picking stones.

One I asked about was over $80,000...that sure took the wind out of my sails!

With all due respect to Richard, I rather not pay for his "eye." I always find that comment a bit hilarious and I have heard it on several occasions, and even from him. Many of us give our opinions on this board every day, and although many of us may not be in the trade, I think you can trust many of us to give an honest opinion and our "eye" at no extra cost . Also, as a vendor, I find some of his descriptions of color on some of his material to be a bit over inflated, like the "cobalt blue" spinel that was very grey and dark, and the "color change" sapphire that really wasn't a color changer noted on the AGTA. To be fair, I find many vendors exaggerate quality, and it is part of the selling game.

As for the stone you first posted, I find the color in the video to be quite flat, and there is too much extinction around the edges. It does not appear to be fine Burma quality. In this case, you're paying more for the origin and the size, and it's natural color status.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Cherrypicked's website has been down for awhile, but they dealt in high end stones and people really liked them. They say you can email them still, it might be worth a try.

 

[kenny]

I saw the Richard Homer concave cut sapphires.
Pretty, but not my cup of tea.
I guess I prefer old fashioned cutting in emerald or squarish-cushion cuts.
An asscher cut would be ideal but I'm sure they just ain't out there.

Also every one I checked said Enhancement: H Heating and not a single one had a lab report.

 

[FrekeChild]

What are the specs of what you're looking for Kenny?

Jeff White could custom cut you an asscher...other cutters as well, but you seem like a Jeff White kind of guy.

And I'm not a concave girl either. No offense to Richard of course! Just not my thing. So I hear you!

 

[T L]

Kenny,
Have you even figured out how much you want to pay per carat, and the quality you're willing to pay for? It seems you are just searching around like a blind sheep at the moment doing some learning and research, which is fine. However, once you do decide to get a sapphire, I hope you know the negative criteria you can live with with, and the criteria you cannot live without. In fine colored gems, like the big three, sapphire, ruby and emerald, unless you have the budget of Elizabeth Taylor, there are sacrifices to be made. Have you decided on what those would be?

 

[kenny]

I want to learn what I can get for the money - which I'm doing.

Well I hesitate to get too specific because someone may find a stone that meets XY and Z, but I may not buy it.
I'd prefer to just be told which of the 9zillion vendors listed above have possibilities.
I'm not asking people to find me a stone - just point me to the vendors.
I may buy tomorrow or not for years.

I prefer to shop for already-cut stones since I do not like commissioning work and having to pay for something regardless of how it comes out.

I don't really have firm have specs except natural untreated blue sapphire.
What is more rare appeals to me, Kashmir/Burma origin.
I think I don't mind if the blue has a little little violet and is a little darker than what I (at this early stage) perceive to be considered the peak of desirability.

Cut shape in order of preference:
Asscher
Emerald - the more square the better - I don't like long emerald cuts
Squarish cushion

Weight 1.5 to 3.5 ct.
Very high clarity
Full AGL or Gubelin report with origin documented
Published prices, but I'm not going to set a budget.

 

[FrekeChild]

With 100% of the vendors I've worked with, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, even if you commissioned it.

 

[jstarfireb]

Did you check out Wildfish Gems yet? Ed's prices are transparent and all of his gems are completely untreated/unheated.

This seems like a nice one, if you're willing to extend the square into a rectangle...
http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/9761

(ETA: Sorry I didn't answer your question about the window right away...logged off for a while to do work. But now I don't have anything to add that wasn't already said.)

 

[T L]

With 100% of the vendors I've worked with, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, even if you commissioned it.

Jeff White charges a non-refundable deposit on his commissions. Not sure if that has changed, but that's what I remember.

 

[jstarfireb]

Or this one, but note that it has a window and looks pretty shallow, so I'd ask for a head-on shot. It's kind of squarish and a really nice color...
http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11442

 

[FrekeChild]

With 100% of the vendors I've worked with, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, even if you commissioned it.

Jeff White charges a non-refundable deposit on his commissions. Not sure if that has changed, but that's what I remember.

Well I haven't worked with Jeff White.

 

[kenny]

Or this one, but note that it has a window and looks pretty shallow, so I'd ask for a head-on shot. It's kind of squarish and a really nice color...
http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11442

Thank you.
The listing says, "GRADING REPORT CBS288, Certificate No: 19031054"

Which lab is that?
It appears the lab reports (if they exist) are not clickable.

 

[jstarfireb]

No idea on that one; your best bet is to contact Ed if you're interested in the stone.

 

[kenny]

I believe he posts here.
Perhaps he'll answer the question so everyone will know.

 

[Edward Bristol]

[quote="LtlFirecracker
Once again, what exactly makes it look windowed to you?
Can anyone here put it into words?[/quote]

The Japanese call a window a "Fish-Eye". That describes it well, I think.

 

[Edward Bristol]

I believe he posts here.
Perhaps he'll answer the question so everyone will know.

Unfortunately I did not upload all certificates right from the beginning, and now, after 8 years and over 1500 gems in stock, it is too much to re-do.

I always scan specific certs if somebody is interested. From the top of my head that 2.88 has a cert from Tokyo without origin. As my comment says "a big face in trade-off for a bit of a window", so you do not need to to much guessing. Nothing compared to a fat tuna-eye however.

 

[kenny]

Thanks so much Ed.

 

[klewis]

Hi Kenny - A Sapphire was my first stone purchase and it's what I consider my "learning stone" - badly windowed, a pavillion bellied just to retain weight and a surface breaking inclusion to top it off. What else could you not want. There were lots of lessons in that stone!

Of course no one vendor is the best or only vendor to deal with but I wouldn't discount Richard Wise, his "eye" is well recognised and acknowledged by his peers. Who ever you buy from, I would recommend his book Secrets of the Gem Trade and particularly the section on gamut limits - the optimum combination of tone and saturation for each hue.

 

[chrono]

Kenny,
Have you checked out Pala (prices have to be quoted by a jeweller, be it local to you or online though as they sell directly to the trade only)? Even if you do not buy from them, just looking to see the different hues and levels of saturation, plus cut might be interesting.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I think it's very difficult to comparison shop when it comes to very rare and high end stones. Based on what I've observed on PS, it seems a lot of people who are seeking something very specific or rare often go the custom route, sometimes even asking a cutter or a vendor to seek out the rough specifically for them. It's vastly different from diamonds where there are many online dealers who specialize only in diamonds, and have thousands in inventory.

For the sake of price comparison purposes for high end sapphires, I'd say
Richard Wise (even if you aren't necessarily going to buy today, asking him for a price on a stone your interested in would still help you get an idea, and give you one more data point for comparison purposes)

Pala gems
Lembeck gems
Wildfish (which you've seen)
Simplysapphires (they have fewer "investment" stones, but a large collection of sapphires)

And while Jeff White is a popular guy for sapphires, he doesn't often have many pre-cut gems on hand for the sake of comparison shopping so I don't know how helpful it would be for you.

Anyways, best of luck and have fun learning! I think the variables in fine colored gems vastly outnumbers diamonds while the availability is magnitudes lower, which is partially why I find them so much more addictive and interesting.

 

[chrono]

MTG,
When it comes to something rare or high end, I rarely approach a lapidary as most are not able to source such material, but I agree with you wholeheartedly that it is difficult to comparison shop such items. What I normally do is contact the vendors who are most likely to have access to such material and ask them to look out for something with my requirements. It may take some weeks or months for them to find the right stone.

 

[movie zombie]

ditto the cut.....but that window is big enough to be called a door.....

mz

 

[movie zombie]

duplicate

 

[smitcompton]

Dear Kenny,

Some people at CS have used Wink as the jeweler who gets their stones from Pala, with the prices. I remember something about Karl helping in your diamond purchase, so I assume you can deal well with him. He may also serve as your dealer with Pala, as has been noted, Pala only sells to the trade. This way you can compare prices at the high end. I think this is one more way to go in your search.

If you can take a trip to Pala. I understand their collection is worth seeing.

Thanks,
Annette