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Ideal_Rock
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Bush: Has your opinion of him changed?
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Super_Ideal_Rock
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I have never approved but I loathe him more and more every single day he''s in power. From what I hear from folks who used to like him and don''t anymore the biggest reason I hear is that he''s a total liar. But more and more Im hearing the whole "he doesn''t care about anyone other than the rich and the white christians".
Yes & No. I just don''t see much point in b*tching about it. If you truly feel that the admin must go, join a campaign to do so.
That being said - you know my mantra - one has NO RIGHT to b*tch if one doesn''t become involved in our political process - if anything via your VOTE.
Curious as to how many know when you vote & what candidates are running on a local level? You local elected officials have more influence in your daily lives than the feds.
That being said - you know my mantra - one has NO RIGHT to b*tch if one doesn''t become involved in our political process - if anything via your VOTE.
Curious as to how many know when you vote & what candidates are running on a local level? You local elected officials have more influence in your daily lives than the feds.
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I respect you F&I but this is one of the cliches that pushes my button. The constitution gives us rights no matter the level or lack of participation in politics. One''s standing as a ciitzen is entitlement enough IMO to voice an opinion. And just so ya know, I''m one of those voting participating folks. And every now and then, a good bitch session restores one''s equilibrium.
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MINE!!
Ideal_Rock
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cinnabar
Shiny_Rock
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Our local news channel''s website asked viewers for their opinions on how Bush could improve his ratings. While this is a blue state, that''s by no means an indication that the vast majority vote Democrat and last year''s election for the Governor had several recounts because the results were so close (she won by less than 50 votes in the end). Previous political polls done on the same website have gone either way. I was pretty shocked to see page after page of negative comments about Bush, which I thought was a clear sign that many people here are rapidly losing confidence in their leader.
Q13 Talkback
(I don''t know if Q13 didn''t want to, or just didn''t bother to, remove some of the ruder comments. Just to warn you if you''re at all sensitive. There''s no nasty profanity, but some of it is earthy.)
Q13 Talkback
(I don''t know if Q13 didn''t want to, or just didn''t bother to, remove some of the ruder comments. Just to warn you if you''re at all sensitive. There''s no nasty profanity, but some of it is earthy.)
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No it hasn''t changed; my opinion has been the same as it was in 2000 and 2004 (he was a poor choice for a president then, we simply have more evidence why he was a poor choice).
The previous election was hard on me. I work with veterans. I never bring up politics with patients, don''t feel it''s a proper thing to do. But many of the Vietnam veterans would tell me how angry they were how Kerry was attacked, basically if he didn''t deserve his medals then it''s like saying none of them deserved them. As one of them said re: Bush "he just doesn''t get it; he doesn''t know what it''s like"( to be in war). Another patient was someone that actually knew Kerry though didn''t serve under him. According to him Kerry had a great reputation with his fellow soldiers and known for his courage. He said "He was really brave, a really brave guy; if he was leading I would have followed him anywhere." It is hard to describe how hurtful and offensive the campaign against Kerry was to these men. But at that time, even though it was election time everyone would talk in whispers when saying anything about Bush. There was this climate of fear about speaking out, which is finally breaking.
"Curious as to how many know when you vote & what candidates are running on a local level? You local elected officials have more influence in your daily lives than the feds."
The local level does has more influence regarding how much property taxes paid, where that money goes. But I disagree that local elected officals have more influence on my daily life. Things like whether this country is in a war, planning for national emergencies (like hurricane Katrina), whether the country is in a huge deficit that may bring down the economy, even supreme court decisions such as whether a women has a right to an abortion, get decided on federal levels.
The previous election was hard on me. I work with veterans. I never bring up politics with patients, don''t feel it''s a proper thing to do. But many of the Vietnam veterans would tell me how angry they were how Kerry was attacked, basically if he didn''t deserve his medals then it''s like saying none of them deserved them. As one of them said re: Bush "he just doesn''t get it; he doesn''t know what it''s like"( to be in war). Another patient was someone that actually knew Kerry though didn''t serve under him. According to him Kerry had a great reputation with his fellow soldiers and known for his courage. He said "He was really brave, a really brave guy; if he was leading I would have followed him anywhere." It is hard to describe how hurtful and offensive the campaign against Kerry was to these men. But at that time, even though it was election time everyone would talk in whispers when saying anything about Bush. There was this climate of fear about speaking out, which is finally breaking.
"Curious as to how many know when you vote & what candidates are running on a local level? You local elected officials have more influence in your daily lives than the feds."
The local level does has more influence regarding how much property taxes paid, where that money goes. But I disagree that local elected officals have more influence on my daily life. Things like whether this country is in a war, planning for national emergencies (like hurricane Katrina), whether the country is in a huge deficit that may bring down the economy, even supreme court decisions such as whether a women has a right to an abortion, get decided on federal levels.
I have to think twice who I am talking to as your avatar changes like the wind
Humor me.
movie zombie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Actually I have to disagree with you. Nearly all the Supreme Court confrontations came from a local level. State''s Rights is a pretty powerful thing. Here, in VA, we have written several laws regulating abortion. Some have stuck. Local agencies ARE responsible for emergency preparedness in one''s backyard. Road Systems, Growth planning, water supply, pollution control - I could go on and on - all decided at local level including "pork" projects. Our Federal Gov. is run by LOCAL elected officals representing *their* contingency. That person is elected on their platform & thus will vote accordingly. And, it was your State''s Reps that decided to go into Gulf War I.
See, I don''t like the current admin BECAUSE of the erosion of State Rights. A State should be able to grant marriage licenses to same sex couples, etc. 9/11 brought about quite a bit of erosion of State''s Rights.
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For me one''s right to bitch isn''t limited to the single standard of whether or not a person votes. I''m just a little more inclusive and think those who work to make their communities better, who volunteer their time to social causes, who raise their children to be good citizens, who pay their taxes, who live their lives to limit the harm they do others and the planet -- in essence, folks who live as well as they can within our society and contribute equally to it what they take from it -- should be free to bitch regardless of whether they vote. Within that context, I think a nonvoter''s criticism is as honest as a voter''s and has more credibility with me than someone who just votes but isn''t a good mensch.Date: 11/3/2005 5:24:17 PM
Author: fire&ice
Humor me.How can you bitch if you didn''t care enough to vote? Agreed, sure one has the right regardless. But, I don''t think one can be honest in their criticism. To me, it''s not a cliche. It''s something I take very seriously.
Well, we disagree. I think exercising your right to vote is at the very core of being a member of our society. I truly believe it''s a responsibility. On my side of the fence, I can not imagine one would contribute in all the ways listed and not vote. Why wouldn''t you? What reason would you have? If one cares enough to do all the things listed, wouldn''t one care enough to cast a ballot for the very person that would lead more of their charge?Date: 11/3/2005 6:00:58 PM
Author: Matata
For me one''s right to bitch isn''t limited to the single standard of whether or not a person votes. I''m just a little more inclusive and think those who work to make their communities better, who volunteer their time to social causes, who raise their children to be good citizens, who pay their taxes, who live their lives to limit the harm they do others and the planet -- in essence, folks who live as well as they can within our society and contribute equally to it what they take from it -- should be free to bitch regardless of whether they vote. Within that context, I think a nonvoter''s criticism is as honest as a voter''s and has more credibility with me than someone who just votes but isn''t a good mensch.Date: 11/3/2005 5:24:17 PM
Author: fire&ice
Humor me.How can you bitch if you didn''t care enough to vote? Agreed, sure one has the right regardless. But, I don''t think one can be honest in their criticism. To me, it''s not a cliche. It''s something I take very seriously.
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Good questions and I don''t have any answers but I know a few people who are considered prominent, outstanding members of my community who don''t vote. I''ve never broached the subject in discussion because I think it a very private issue but I think curiosity is getting the better of me and next time I have the opportunity, I''ll open a discussion. It should be quite interesting.
rubydick
Shiny_Rock
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It would seem that some might have the right to bitch. Many who wished to vote were prevented from doing so. Rehnquist was infamous in Arizona in the early 1960's for his voter challenges, and how can we forget the Florida debacle in 2000, where a Texas company, DBT/ChoicePoint, scrubbed the voter rolls of minorities. And it was none other than Rehnquist&Co. that appointed bush resident. The slime continued in 2004:
GOP Disrupts the Ohio Vote
You bet, voting is important. Now could you expand on just why voting for Dubya was the best decision "for the time." We're all ears.
movie zombie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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it was the 2000 election and what happened in Florida re the count and the storming of the elections office that got me volunteering here: not on my block was my thought.
however, congress put that damnable law into place requiring electronic voting and now even this county has to comply. i feel like its useless to volunteer in the future because i believe the electronic ballot system is ''a fix'' and my being at the polling place won''t make a difference....so this may be my last appearance as a polling volunteer.
peace, movie zombie
however, congress put that damnable law into place requiring electronic voting and now even this county has to comply. i feel like its useless to volunteer in the future because i believe the electronic ballot system is ''a fix'' and my being at the polling place won''t make a difference....so this may be my last appearance as a polling volunteer.
peace, movie zombie
rubydick
Shiny_Rock
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strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I think he is one of the worse presidents we have had since Carter on the domestic front.
The only consolation is that he isn''t Kerry, Gore or Hillary because we would be worse off.
Im tired of only having a choice of very liberal candidate one and the liberal candidate 2.
neither party represents me and my values and neither is conservative.
They are both the tax and spend party buying votes with my tax dollars.
The only consolation is that he isn''t Kerry, Gore or Hillary because we would be worse off.
Im tired of only having a choice of very liberal candidate one and the liberal candidate 2.
neither party represents me and my values and neither is conservative.
They are both the tax and spend party buying votes with my tax dollars.
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Storm,
Your politics have always interested me.
What foreign policy (if any) do you think that the United States should have? Do you believe it should have any organized armed forces?
Do you think there should be any taxes at all and, if so, for what purpose?
Whom would you like to see as President of the United States?
Deborah
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Ideal_Rock
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strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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That''s just it. When I talk to people who voted for Bush - a prevailing sentiment "this administration can''t leave soon enough". But, none would reverse the clock & vote for the Kerry/Edwards ticket.
Personally, the way that some have expressed such deep sentiment about abhoring Bush. I feel that way about Edwards. I would NEVER vote a ticket with his name on it. I would vote for Mickey Moose before I cast a ballot his way. That said, I did vote Gore/Lieberman ticket - as did many of my Bush voting friends in this past election.
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 11/4/2005 9:32:14 AM
Author: fire&ice
Didn''t we try isolationism? I seem to recall it didn''t work.
there is a difference betwween isolationism, and non interference and being prepared.
In both world wars if we had stepped in from the start history would be very different.
We waited too long to get involved.
Now we are too involved in places we should not be involved in.
Right now there is no reason to have troups in Europe.
MINE!!
Ideal_Rock
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Now could you expand on just why voting for Dubya was the best decision ''for the time.'' We''re all ears.
LOL.. now that is Funny Richard.. I find it hard to beleive that you EVER listen to anyone that does not agree with your rantings of W demonics and your conspiracy theories.
But just as storm said: at least it was not Kerry, Gore or Hillary.
I abhor Kerry and Edwards... I remember when Edwards ran for Senate here in NC. Everyone knew that he wasn''t running for Senate, he was running for the President or Vice President. He was like a snake in the grass then.. as Believe that he will be in the next election when he tries to turn on the Pretty boy.. ''look at me I am like Camelot" campaign.
I was one of those people that voted based on what I knew would be best for the country at theat time.. and THAT WASN"T KERRY and Edwards. Therefore I voted for BUSH!!! YES BUSH!!! BUSH BUSH BUSH!!! Does it sting
This puts you in a position of Monday morning quarterbacking. We have troops in Europe for easier mobilization.Date: 11/4/2005 10:02:31 AM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 11/4/2005 9:32:14 AM
Author: fire&ice
Didn''t we try isolationism? I seem to recall it didn''t work.
there is a difference betwween isolationism, and non interference and being prepared.
In both world wars if we had stepped in from the start history would be very different.
We waited too long to get involved.
Now we are too involved in places we should not be involved in.
Right now there is no reason to have troups in Europe.
Also, keep in mind, up until Pearl Harbor, entering the war had little popular support. To the point where some believe Roosevelt knew about the pending attack and would swing sentiment.
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 11/4/2005 10:39:30 AM
Author: fire&ice
This puts you in a position of Monday morning quarterbacking. We have troops in Europe for easier mobilization.Date: 11/4/2005 10:02:31 AM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 11/4/2005 9:32:14 AM
Author: fire&ice
Didn''t we try isolationism? I seem to recall it didn''t work.
there is a difference betwween isolationism, and non interference and being prepared.
In both world wars if we had stepped in from the start history would be very different.
We waited too long to get involved.
Now we are too involved in places we should not be involved in.
Right now there is no reason to have troups in Europe.
Also, keep in mind, up until Pearl Harbor, entering the war had little popular support. To the point where some believe Roosevelt knew about the pending attack and would swing sentiment.
mobilization to where?
our primary fighting force is the carrier battle groups with the army for mop up.
Yes people here didnt get what was happening in Europe until we were attacked.
My Dad fought in WW2 and he kept on saying we didnt know until we got hit.
A lot of the stuff that went on didnt come to light until after the war.
bar01
Brilliant_Rock
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As some one who decided to get involved by running and getting elected to office in my little town - I can see why most decent, independent, normal folks would avoid public service. It is a lot of work and somebody is always pissed at how you voted, thinks you’re up to no good, and so on. I am seeing first hand how much work is really involved, and some of the dirt digging, mud slinging, misinformation, press bias, empire building, etc. that can take place even at the local level.
I have tried to be fair, independent, open to considering all sides, and really dig into the issues. I don''t get paid for this. It is all on my own time after work and weekends at the expense of my new wife and daughter.
Recently I voted for a controversial plan. It was so controversial that the vote was split evenly and the mayor had to cast the deciding vote. The people opposed to it were very vocal, very angry, but after alot of work I decided the facts supported the plan. It was a good plan, and I knew it in my head and heart. However, the opponents have only gotten more angry and more vocal afterwards, even looking in my background to see if I there something they can find.
I am struggling to decide it this is worth it – suffer slings and arrows, or take arms against a sea of troubles….
I have the utmost respect for people like Senator McCain who seem to be able be a part of the system, yet maintain their own independence and integrity, even while being attacked by members of their own party.
I have tried to be fair, independent, open to considering all sides, and really dig into the issues. I don''t get paid for this. It is all on my own time after work and weekends at the expense of my new wife and daughter.
Recently I voted for a controversial plan. It was so controversial that the vote was split evenly and the mayor had to cast the deciding vote. The people opposed to it were very vocal, very angry, but after alot of work I decided the facts supported the plan. It was a good plan, and I knew it in my head and heart. However, the opponents have only gotten more angry and more vocal afterwards, even looking in my background to see if I there something they can find.
I am struggling to decide it this is worth it – suffer slings and arrows, or take arms against a sea of troubles….
I have the utmost respect for people like Senator McCain who seem to be able be a part of the system, yet maintain their own independence and integrity, even while being attacked by members of their own party.
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