Tacori E-ring
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Bush: Has your opinion of him changed?
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rubydick
Shiny_Rock
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- Sep 27, 2004
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Mine!! & Fire&Ice,
I guess what many of us are waiting for here are a few specifics. You baldly state that I never listen to others who disagree with me, and yet every time I ask for specifics, it''s off on another rant about how I never listen.
You state that Bush was the best choice, that you could never vote for Kerry, but again a big goose egg when it comes to the why. "Dripping slime" and "snake" are just dandy, but give us some reasons to hate them, too. Strmrdr sports some pretty outrageous beliefs, IMO, but has no problem defending them.
Now I would use "dripping slime" and "snake" with Bush, but then cite some examples to support my beliefs. Here''s an example: He says one thing and does another. He goes to war with Iraq citing WMDs, then outs the CIA wife of a man sent to Niger to research WMDs because the man goes public with the administration''s lies. IMO, that seems to be a contradiction. And this is not simply my belief, but that of an increasing majority of the public, if one believes the polls.
Now here you come, saying, yeah, but she willingly went on the cover of a magazine, and then I say, yeah, but that was after the outing and doesn''t negate the fact that Bush outed her. And you say, yeah, but she went on a mag cover. And then start whinging about how I''m conspiracy addled (meanwhile citing the idea that ''some'' believe Roosevelt had advance warning of Pearl Harbor, this uttered minus the whine; perhaps because Roosevelt was a Dem?).
Nixon was elected in a landslide; 18 months later he resigned in disgrace. What changed was not the crimes that he committed, but the public knowledge of them.
But back to WMDs and the CIA. A number of ex-CIA people have spoken out about the Plame affair. Correct me if I''m wrong, but I don''t know of any who have said they did not believe her outing constituted a crime. Indeed, one had this to say:
"We have noticed that Valerie Plame Wilson has lived in Washington since 1997. Where she was before that is not disclosed by research facilities at my disposal. But even if she was safe in Washington when the identity of her employer was given out, it does not mean that her outing was without consequence. We do not know what dealings she might have been engaging in which are now interrupted or even made impossible. We do not know whether the countries in which she worked before 1997 could accost her, if she were to visit any of them, confronting her with signed papers that gave untruthful reasons for her previous stay -- that she was there only as tourist, or working for a fictitious U.S. company."
I know what you''re thinking. Here goes rubydick again, deep down some conspiracy rabbit-hole, quoting a tin-foil hat loon long ago consigned to political Siberia.
But let''s see his conclusion:
"The importance of the law against revealing the true professional identity of an agent is advertised by the draconian punishment, under the federal code, for violating it. In the swirl of the Libby affair, one loses sight of the real offense, and it becomes almost inapprehensible what it is that Cheney/Libby/Rove got themselves into. But the sacredness of the law against betraying a clandestine soldier of the republic cannot be slighted."
Just who is this obvious pinko? William F. Buckley, Jr. You can read his full column here.
I do not quote Buckley simply because his current views now coincide with mine. I''ve been reading him for years, and often strongly disagree with his opinions. But one must respect that, like Strmrdr, he has the conviction to defend them. And the strength to toss off a politician or three when they betray the public trust. Even when he previously supported them.
I guess what many of us are waiting for here are a few specifics. You baldly state that I never listen to others who disagree with me, and yet every time I ask for specifics, it''s off on another rant about how I never listen.
You state that Bush was the best choice, that you could never vote for Kerry, but again a big goose egg when it comes to the why. "Dripping slime" and "snake" are just dandy, but give us some reasons to hate them, too. Strmrdr sports some pretty outrageous beliefs, IMO, but has no problem defending them.
Now I would use "dripping slime" and "snake" with Bush, but then cite some examples to support my beliefs. Here''s an example: He says one thing and does another. He goes to war with Iraq citing WMDs, then outs the CIA wife of a man sent to Niger to research WMDs because the man goes public with the administration''s lies. IMO, that seems to be a contradiction. And this is not simply my belief, but that of an increasing majority of the public, if one believes the polls.
Now here you come, saying, yeah, but she willingly went on the cover of a magazine, and then I say, yeah, but that was after the outing and doesn''t negate the fact that Bush outed her. And you say, yeah, but she went on a mag cover. And then start whinging about how I''m conspiracy addled (meanwhile citing the idea that ''some'' believe Roosevelt had advance warning of Pearl Harbor, this uttered minus the whine; perhaps because Roosevelt was a Dem?).
Nixon was elected in a landslide; 18 months later he resigned in disgrace. What changed was not the crimes that he committed, but the public knowledge of them.
But back to WMDs and the CIA. A number of ex-CIA people have spoken out about the Plame affair. Correct me if I''m wrong, but I don''t know of any who have said they did not believe her outing constituted a crime. Indeed, one had this to say:
"We have noticed that Valerie Plame Wilson has lived in Washington since 1997. Where she was before that is not disclosed by research facilities at my disposal. But even if she was safe in Washington when the identity of her employer was given out, it does not mean that her outing was without consequence. We do not know what dealings she might have been engaging in which are now interrupted or even made impossible. We do not know whether the countries in which she worked before 1997 could accost her, if she were to visit any of them, confronting her with signed papers that gave untruthful reasons for her previous stay -- that she was there only as tourist, or working for a fictitious U.S. company."
I know what you''re thinking. Here goes rubydick again, deep down some conspiracy rabbit-hole, quoting a tin-foil hat loon long ago consigned to political Siberia.
But let''s see his conclusion:
"The importance of the law against revealing the true professional identity of an agent is advertised by the draconian punishment, under the federal code, for violating it. In the swirl of the Libby affair, one loses sight of the real offense, and it becomes almost inapprehensible what it is that Cheney/Libby/Rove got themselves into. But the sacredness of the law against betraying a clandestine soldier of the republic cannot be slighted."
Just who is this obvious pinko? William F. Buckley, Jr. You can read his full column here.
I do not quote Buckley simply because his current views now coincide with mine. I''ve been reading him for years, and often strongly disagree with his opinions. But one must respect that, like Strmrdr, he has the conviction to defend them. And the strength to toss off a politician or three when they betray the public trust. Even when he previously supported them.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2003
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Well, this is tangential, but what the heck? My next door neighbors are very conservative Republicans. Since I am close to the female of the couple, we often have them to dinner or we all go to dinner when my parents visit Virginia. My parents are very left wing, but also very polite. They never disagree with anything political my neighbors say. Everyone is very friendly when we are together.
Well, the male of the couple decided to tease my mother by saying he would get her a subscription to, the "National Review" and I had to tell him that she had had one for years in order to understand the conservative viewpoint!
Buckley can be supercilious and obnoxious on television, but he is not only bright and literate, but consistent in his world view. I used to love to watch him and Gore Vidal drawl at each other in words that would strain the vocabulary of a lexicographer! Now that was intelligent entertainment!
Deb
You crack me up. I''ve explained myself numerous times. You fail to listen - it''s fruitless to repeat myself. Again, you don''t ask questions (and if you do they have been answered over and over again - just not the answer that is exceptable to you) You ask WHY I don''t AGREE with you. I''ve just been here the longest saying the same thing.
That said, Mine stated one reason why Edwards is not worthy. He has no EXPERIENCE. He ran just to run in another race. He failed to serve his State. He''s a pretty boy trial lawyer who just took his cut in his settlements. And, my statement was from one NClian to another. You wouldn''t understand how despised Edwards is in his own back yard. I had no strong feelings about Kerry until after he picked his running mate. Precisely what I said would happen in this election after his pick is exactly what happened. Cracked me up that they said Edwards would weigh in the South. He couldn''t carry his own county, state or homestate. He didn''t. Not even close.
And, *I* did not state that Bush was the best pick at the time. I said nothing of the like. This is precisely why I don''t listen to you anymore. You lump *anyone* who doesn''t buy all your "stuff" in the same catagory. Same ole Same ole.
movie zombie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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rubydick
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2004
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Note that there were two names at the top of that post, not just one. The "you" was used in the collective sense in that your criticisms of me are like an echo machine. I guess I can sum up my feelings as follows. I have no problems with you attacking my ideas, but I''d appreciate it if you''d keep the personal attacks to yourself.
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