Buyer Beware... If you're non-American, think twice before purchasing from the US

[LightBright]

Tell the people in our country who live paycheck to paycheck, cash their check each week to buy food to put on the table and find out their money does not cover the cost at the supermarket for their family, sure, tell those people to sacrifice.

The US Agricultural Trade deficit increased dramatically in 2021 and is now at an all time high favoring other countries. “ The U.S. is projected to experience a record agricultural trade deficit of $45.5 billion in fiscal year 2025, driven by rising imports of high-value goods like fruits, vegetables, and processed foods.”

So yes, these tariffs will increase food prices. Question in my mind is why we have a historic Ag Trade deficit, and can the tariffs change that.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Tell the people in our country who live paycheck to paycheck, cash their check each week to buy food to put on the table and find out their money does not cover the cost at the supermarket for their family, sure, tell those people to sacrifice.

Those people sacrifice daily, not just when there is a trade dispute. Did it occur to you that evening out the trade agreements may make those who live paycheck to paycheck better off in the long run? At this point I've seen a lot of hand wringing about the temporary disturbances in the stock market, non-essential items price raises and what other countries may think of our efforts.

These aren't primary concerns to those living on an economic tightrope. They don't have money in the stock market, non-essential items aren't on their radar and they may be hoping other countries acquiesce to the trade issue and settle it quickly. If you have noticed, those making the loudest noise about the tariffs are the fairly well off.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Is any member an economist?
Likely not.
The issues -such as trade deficits- have been explained in detail in this thread.
You mentioned history.

To those mentioning history…. Please learn the history of tariffs and the results.
Clearly the country is divided.
For a large portion of us, it seems blatantly obvious that the wool is being pulled over the eyes of the rest of us. Experts are ignored and fictitious charts and numbers are used to justify our country breaking treaties and relationships with our closest allies.

Your “side” won. We can scream and cry till the cows come home. No one is standing up. People in our government who are on record saying tariffs are bad are keeping quiet.

As for now- Canada hates us. And pretty much the rest of the free world.
It’s quite likely grocery prices will spike- along with most other things we buy starting Monday. And tax breaks for upper income people are on the way.
We have no choice but to start digging deeper to pay so billionaires can get tax breaks.
AND….a large percentage of Americans are thinking this is all good.
We’re done. This isn’t getting fixed.

 

[WillyDiamond]

Those people sacrifice daily, not just when there is a trade dispute. Did it occur to you that evening out the trade agreements may make those who live paycheck to paycheck better off in the long run? At this point I've seen a lot of hand wringing about the temporary disturbances in the stock market, non-essential items price raises and what other countries may think of our efforts.

These aren't primary concerns to those living on an economic tightrope. They don't have money in the stock market, non-essential items aren't on their radar and they may be hoping other countries acquiesce to the trade issue and settle it quickly. If you have noticed, those making the loudest noise about the tariffs are the fairly well off.

The jobs overseas, and we import their products are there for a reason. People are paid wages not sustainable in the US and if we did bring them back, the costs would be prohibitive to US buyers. Some argue those jobs are lost forever and not coming back. it is like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube, kind of tough. Perhaps we should be looking to build products where the world needs them and we can drive technology and own it, therefore creating sustainable good paying jobs.

I would like to see those people who live paycheck to paycheck, not do so anymore. With the new tariffs how long will that take? It will take years to build or refurbish an auto plant in the US, not days. You want Nike to stop making athletic shoes in Vietnam and China, US labor costs are prohibitive and these are low paying jobs, can’t support a family in the US. Even if Nike could bring a plant to the US, your shoes would now go from $150 a pair to $300 a pair. Most people wont pay that.

The whole point is to help people go from one economic level to another, from no 401-k plan to having one, from no savings in the bank to having a nest egg.

Maybe some of the well off are doing the complaining, perhaps it is not complaining as you mention, but rather empathy or compassion for others.

 

[Lookinagain]

These aren't primary concerns to those living on an economic tightrope. They don't have money in the stock market, non-essential items aren't on their radar and they may be hoping other countries acquiesce to the trade issue and settle it quickly. I

What about retirees, who often have money in the stock market? Taking mandatory distributions from their 401k or IRA? Unless they have kept a fair amount of cash in those accounts things need to be sold regularly. They need that money to supplement SS but also have tax consequences if they don't take those mandatory distributions. And of course, they are afraid that SS will be cut somehow. The wait and see approach just doesn't seem to work for them. And they are very concerned.

 

[togal]

Interesting article from the BBC today. It makes the point that the US has a massive SURPLUS in service industries, and these have been excluded from the calculations. I also read elsewhere that they used AI to do the tariff calculations, which is why penguins have been included

Interesting article from the BBC today. It makes the point that the US has a massive SURPLUS in service industries, and these have been excluded from the calculations. I also read elsewhere that they used AI to do the tariff calculations, which is why penguins have been included

[URLT unfurl="true"]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp34nkj1kv2o[/URL]

I got banned for 1 week from this forum for posting a 'Tariff Timeline' by the Associated Press, which was very informative, except the timeline named a specific person of high authority who imposed the tariffs....so your article will likely get deleted. This forum doesn't allow comments or articles that name politicians. With that said, it's near impossible to find any information online regarding "Liberation Day" tariffs that doesn't have a specific name attached to it.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

( And tax breaks for upper income people are on the way.
We have no choice but to start digging deeper to pay so billionaires can get tax breaks.)

Those awful rich people who float our boats...

"In 2021, taxpayers filed 153.6 million tax returns, reported earning more than $14.7 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI), and paid nearly $2.2 trillion in individual income taxes.

The average income tax rate in 2021 was 14.9 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.9 percent average rate, nearly eight times higher than the 3.3 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.

The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 22.2 percent in 2020 to 26.3 percent in 2021 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 42.3 percent to 45.8 percent.

The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent.

The 2021 figures include pandemic-related tax items from the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA), such as the non-refundable part of the third round of Recovery Rebates and the expanded child tax credit (CTC) and earned income tax credit (EITC).

Capital gains realizations exceeded $2 trillion to reach a 40-year high, driving income growth and taxes paid for high-income groups."

From: Who Pays Federal Income Taxes? Latest Federal Income Tax Data

 

[Ella]

I got banned for 1 week from this forum for posting a 'Tariff Timeline' by the Associated Press, which was very informative, except the timeline named a specific person of high authority who imposed the tariffs....so your article will likely get deleted. This forum doesn't allow comments or articles that name politicians. With that said, it's near impossible to find any information online regarding "Liberation Day" tariffs that doesn't have a specific name attached to it.

Time outs are given when rules are broken blatantly, most often more than once.

That being said, please have discussions here rather than just post links to articles. That solves this problem. Link fights are not productive and when names are mentioned conversation devolves quickly into battles about parties.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@Sunrises Sunsets these tariffs will equalize everything!!
Now the poorest among us will get a new 25%+ tax increase!
If you were to look at the numbers in 1979, you’d see how there’s been a massive growth at the upper end while regular folks have not seen any gains.
It’s a big part of why we are so divided right now. Inequity.
A policy that allows one person to use billions to buy elections.
It’s really genius. They’ve convinced people that the billionaires writing these policies gives a hoot about working people….while firing them by the tens of thousands.
The best horror/ fiction author couldn’t have written a more complete end to everything that made America great.
It’s all gone. Celebrate!!!
Now we all get to pay the price.

 

[empliau]

credit https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

 

[Lookinagain]

Corporate income taxes accounted for 6.5 percent of total U.S. tax revenue in 2022.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

A tax that effects everyone equally, say the price increases for regular purchases such as appliances, auto repairs, old fashion groceries, etc., due to across the board tariffs, disproportionaly impacts the lowest income groups. And particularly if they are on a fixed income.

The impacts on family budgets may not be felt directly by the wealth class, including the broligarchs running this show. The concept of groceries even seems like a quaint, old fashion concept to some. Are they the "real America" that is so often talked about? Or is it the 37% of Americans who cannot cover an unexpected $400 expense in cash? These tariffs will put a lot more people in that category.

A lot of folks, many of whom are presumably middle class, were complaining loudly about the high price of eggs because of bird flu. Now a new car will cost approximately $4K more on average. If, in addition to all the daily products that will become more expensive, middle class family budgets won't be able to afford a new car, guess what happens to those auto manufacturing jobs that this scheme is supposed to bring back, theoretically, someday, maybe in the future.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

A tax that effects everyone equally, say the price increases for regular purchases such as appliances, auto repairs, old fashion groceries, etc., due to across the board tariffs, disproportionaly impacts the lowest income groups. And particularly if they are on a fixed income.

The impacts on family budgets may not be felt directly by the wealth class, including the broligarchs running this show. The concept of groceries even seems like a quaint, old fashion concept to some. Are they the "real America" that is so often talked about? Or is it the 37% of Americans who cannot cover an unexpected $400 expense in cash? These tariffs will put a lot more people in that category.

A lot of folks, many of whom are presumably middle class, were complaining loudly about the high price of eggs because of bird flu. Now a new car will cost approximately $4K more on average. If, in addition to all the daily products that will become more expensive, middle class family budgets won't be able to afford a new car, guess what happens to those auto manufacturing jobs that this scheme is supposed to bring back, theoretically, someday, maybe in the future.

Perhaps the solution is to put a very high tax on all luxury items that are not necessities in life. The poor, who appear to be the only concern for some, would find much relief and then those with extra cash for the goodies would foot the bills.

 

[Lookinagain]

Perhaps the solution is to put a very high tax on all luxury items that are not necessities in life. The poor, who appear to be the only concern for some, would find much relief and then those with extra cash for the goodies would foot the bills.

Well, that at least would be a targeted tariff instead of hitting everything. No one has to have luxury items. They are a luxury. And people with a lot of money will still be able to buy them. And yes, the poor are a concern, since they will end up poorer. Who can that be good for? And why reduce corporate taxes even further? As I posted above, corporate taxes only account for about 6.5% of the tax revenue and they have already gotten the benefit of a good sized tax cut.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Well, that at least would be a targeted tariff instead of hitting everything. No one has to have luxury items. They are a luxury. And people with a lot of money will still be able to buy them. And yes, the poor are a concern, since they will end up poorer. Who can that be good for? And why reduce corporate taxes even further? As I posted above, corporate taxes only account for about 6.5% of the tax revenue and they have already gotten the benefit of a good sized tax cut.

The poor are a concern but they have many safety nets available to them. I think those most at risk are the lower income to lower middle income brackets. I don't anticipate a long tariff period and if good tech, medical innovation and products and industry would return to the USA, it would be an invaluable benefit to our country.

 

[Lookinagain]

The poor are a concern but they have many safety nets available to them. I think those most at risk are the lower income to lower middle income brackets. I don't anticipate a long tariff period and if good tech, medical innovation and products and industry would return to the USA, it would be an invaluable benefit to our country.

Well, I sure hope you're right about it not being a long tariff period. The message just isn't clear right now. Contradictory statements.

 

[Mreader]

auto manufacturing jobs that this scheme is supposed to bring back, theoretically, someday, maybe in the future.

That is part of what makes the entire thing ridiculous. Nobody is going to want to invest in a million to billion dollar plant for many reasons, one of which that it can all be undone (as it was done) with the stroke of a pen. There is no stability. Plus it would take years to build and in the interim the prices are unaffordable.

This is the same thing that happened in the 20s/30s and it was proven then that tariffs do not work!

But again, the data is WRONG. They didn't even use correct data.

It's so bonkers .

 

[Rockdiamond]

I don't anticipate a long tariff period

How long do you anticipate them to last?

I have tried to find someplace where we could learn how long these taxes will last.
As of tomorrow what it feels like is the government increasing the price of pretty much everything we buy.
No declared end or logical goal in sight.
Sunrise…. will you mind having to pay more for things?

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

How long do you anticipate them to last?

I have tried to find someplace where we could learn how long these taxes will last.
As of tomorrow what it feels like is the government increasing the price of pretty much everything we buy.
No declared end or logical goal in sight.
Sunrise…. will you mind having to pay more for things?

There is no crystal ball but, hopefully, there will be a reaching across the table to work out agreements. There have been some agreements so far but it is early in the event.

David, we have paid more for things for the last four years with the large inflation. Our home, under 1400 sq ft has had an increased reassessment 3 years in a row creating a big increase in taxes plus 2 school districts referendums just passed. Our condo association has had special assessments totaling $13,000. per condo in the last 3 years. Electricity, gas, phones, supplemental health insurance along with Medicare coverage, car maintenance, food and on and on have all increased and has taken a big toll on fixed income. We don't travel and may grab a sandwich out once week but sometimes not every week. I cut my own hair and my husband's even though I haven't had formal training.

But we are grateful and are more concerned how this will affect others including family. We don't have a pension behind us and at our ages know that money in the stock market is Russian roulette so our IRA's are savings accounts. I hope, along with everyone else that trades deals can be struck and things are settled shortly.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Perhaps the solution is to put a very high tax on all luxury items that are not necessities in life. The poor, who appear to be the only concern for some, would find much relief and then those with extra cash for the goodies would foot the bills.

The concept has merit. But you would need to do an analyis of how much money would raised as a standalone measure, how would you redistribute this money to "the poor", and how much benefit it would have. You would have to evaluate this in terms of the effects it would have on industry and if it was sustainable. If this put half the businesses currently participating in this industry out of business and all their workers out of a job, there would be a cost associated with whatever benefits were extracted. If the overall benefit to society was a net positive, it would be an idea that could be legitimately debated in the context of differing opinions on free trade.

This is the kind of analysis that is sorely lacking in this case, as evidenced by countries we are currently running a trade surplus with being penalized as well, not to mention penguins.

As a son of a Gold Star family, I am well aware of the need for shared sacrifice. One does not have to be a bleeding heart to understand that we are all better off when we are all better off.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

The concept has merit. But you would need to do an analyis of how much money would raised as a standalone measure, how would you redistribute this money to "the poor", and how much benefit it would have. You would have to evaluate this in terms of the effects it would have on industry and if it was sustainable. If this put half the businesses currently participating in this industry out of business and all their workers out of a job, there would be a cost associated with whatever benefits were extracted. If the overall benefit to society was a net positive, it would be an idea that could be legitimately debated in the context of differing opinions on free trade.

This is the kind of analysis that is sorely lacking in this case, as evidenced by countries we are currently running a trade surplus with being penalized as well, not to mention penguins.

As a son of a Gold Star family, I am well aware of the need for shared sacrifice. One does not have to be a bleeding heart to understand that we are all better off when we are all better off.

If the inference is that I am a bleeding heart, you misjudged. I understand that type of tax would have severe business ramifications as would taxing the devil out of financially successful corporations. But the poor...

I'm weary of the statements tax the rich and everything will be perfect. It won't. I wouldn't rule out closing some loopholes and tightening the wiggle room in everyone paying their fair share.

The bottom started falling out in this country when business and industries moved overseas and across borders. I personally have witnessed so many companies move out of the states. Now this country is dependent on many nations for basic supplies such as prescription medication.

Things need to change and if they don't shortly, I said it earlier, the tariffs will be a nothing-burger compared to what's ahead.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

If the inference is that I am a bleeding heart, you misjudged. I understand that type of tax would have severe business ramifications as would taxing the devil out of financially successful corporations. But the poor...

I'm weary of the statements tax the rich and everything will be perfect. It won't. I wouldn't rule out closing some loopholes and tightening the wiggle room in everyone paying their fair share.

The bottom started falling out in this country when business and industries moved overseas and across borders. I personally have witnessed so many companies move out of the states. Now this country is dependent on many nations for basic supplies such as prescription medication.

Things need to change and if they don't shortly, I said it earlier, the tariffs will be a nothing-burger compared to what's ahead.

No Ma'am. I was not accusing you of being a bleeding heart. Sorry if you got that impression.

I'm glad to hear you won't rule out closing loopholes and tightening wiggle room in everyone paying their fair share. That can be the basis for arriving at a consensus.

Jet planes and internet made the world much smaller and more interconnected. That is a reality we must work with. Going back in time is not an option.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

No Ma'am. I was not accusing you of being a bleeding heart. Sorry if you got that impression.

I'm glad to hear you won't rule out closing loopholes and tightening wiggle room in everyone paying their fair share. That can be the basis for arriving at a consensus.

Jet planes and internet made the world much smaller and more interconnected. That is a reality we must work with. Going back in time is not an option.

Going back in time and removing the future of the USA from China's fingers may be critical. They are wasting no time making advances and control of our country simply by holding our critical supply chain in their control at this point.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Do you not see how the belligerence of this trade war is pushing the rest of the world to China and India?

Tariffs are trade barriers. If a country can no longer do business in America, they will seek other trading partners. They might not want to change, but they have no choice.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Do you not see how the belligerence of this trade war is pushing the rest of the world to China and India?

Tariffs are trade barriers. If a country can no longer do business in America, they will seek other trading partners. They might not want to change, but have no choice.

I firmly believe no one will do business with China any longer than they have to do so. If they are so desperate not to address their trade policies with the USA and would snuggle up to China, are we to stand back if they should be attacked?

 

[maryjane04]

I firmly believe no one will do business with China any longer than they have to do so. If they are so desperate not to address their trade policies with the USA and would snuggle up to China, are we to stand back if they should be attacked?

If I was in any position to do business, this kind of tone would make me reluctant to do any business with the USA. Snuggle up? Wow.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Other countries won't play, they'll just move markets. They already are, making new treaties and trade agreements.
We break trade agreements we initially implemented. Relative stability is what markets are after and we aren't stable.

The futures are showing yet another 1500 pts loss. Some are calling it Black Monday.
We'll just have to see.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

If I was in any position to do business, this kind of tone would make me reluctant to do any business with the USA. Snuggle up? Wow.

Other countries will move their trade to China rather than negotiate fair terms with USA? WOW.

Have you not read the dialog coming out of some countries?

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Other countries won't play, they'll just move markets. They already are, making new treaties and trade agreements.
We break trade agreements we initially implemented. Relative stability is what markets are after and we aren't stable.

The futures are showing yet another 1500 pts loss. Some are calling it Black Monday.
We'll just have to see.

In today's terms, those trade agreements that were negotiated 5-6 years ago are no longer working. So the USA must "suck it up" and not ask for equal trade, right?

Contracts and agreements are renegotiated all the time. When the new head of one of the countries states our country's diagnosis of the current trade agreement is correct, but he doesn't want to address it, why are we tarred and feathered?

Why don't we wait and see which countries will do the right thing and work with us?

 

[Lookinagain]

Other countries will move their trade to China rather than negotiate fair terms with USA? WOW.

I think that many will. And now the reduction in what we used as "soft diplomacy" will leave another vacuum that they will fill.