Buying from CeylonSapphireGems: An expensive mistake

[Cerulean]

Just stop @Ionysis

Your point is more than well established

What happened here is beyond defense. Your continued defense of the vendor is not just unscrupulous, it is offensive at this point and @AnastasiaBeaverhausen has been far more gracious to you than I think is deserving given your persistent provocation

She certainly owes you no explanation. I implore you to not revisit this thread.

 

[kb1gra]

I admit I am utterly baffled by this whole thing, but the concept that as long as you get money back - eventually, someday, at some indeterminate time in the future, everything must be fine, is just so unbelievable as to be pretty much incomprehensible.

So if it takes 10 years, that's fine? That's eventually, right? It should just be 100% on the seller's timeline, whenever he feels like it, and that's just the way it is?

He offered her a refund. Nobody else made him do that. Nobody else made him state a return policy. Nobody made him decide that he could just offer a policy and assume nobody would ever ask him to make good on it. Nobody made him sell stones to foreign markets, which I'm sure he does because he knows there's better money in it for him. Somebody, however, is apparently advising him that just having random clients send money to other clients and take memo for future purchases and involving other dealers in the transaction is a perfectly acceptable method of circumventing financial restrictions, so there's that.

I'm baffled for you, Anastasia, and having been in your shoes with a vendor (not of gemstones) who gave my personal information to everyone, I understand completely how you're feeling right now.

If the other threads are true, this vendor is slime to everyone, not just you, but also to this person who is repeatedly coming to his defense and acting as his bank. There's no reputation worth preserving at that point, whatever "culture" or otherwise you're from.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

@AnastasiaBeaverhausen I have nothing particularly sage to add other than, I'm so pissed out of my mind for you! I'm also sorry this has dragged so long- it beggars belief.
(((hugs)))

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Well well well, I can't help but believe the last paragraph is intended to me. More than anyone else, I want to know what I got. AGL had the stone since Sep and their current turnaround time is 4 to 5 weeks, I'm waiting for the call from the lab every day!

I hope you hear back from AGL very soon!

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

So how does one prevent this from happening?

Paypal? Do they actually help you in these situations?

Credit card? Does credit card buyers protection even help with these transactions?

Paypal has been pretty buyer-friendly in my experience. So I can see why many sellers might refuse to accept it as a form of payment.

With credit cards, here's a blurb I found from Google (it compares it to paying with debit cards so it's a bit long):

"Credit cards generally cap cardholder liability at $50, with many banks offering zero-liability cards that reimburse cardholders for the full amount of fraudulent charges.

Legally, the maximum liability for a debit card user is only capped at $50 if the card is reported lost within two days. If reported lost after more than two days but less than 60 days, the cap is $500. After that, there is no liability limit. As you might imagine, this gets a bit confusing when it comes to eCommerce, since the card might not be lost at all.

This is one of the reasons why consumers are advised not to use debit cards for "risky" purchases like card-not-present (CNP) transactions, situations where the card is taken out of the customer's sight (like restaurants), and instances where the product or services are delivered long after the card is charged, and the time to dispute the transaction may have already expired

In the interest of better serving their customers, however, many banks offer their own protections and liability limits that go beyond what is legally required. Even banks that don't have specific protections in place will often choose not to hold the cardholder liable, even if they could legally do so."

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

I’m sorry too @AnastasiaBeaverhausen . I was bothered for you when a few people came back here asking for updates. I knew that you probably hadn’t gotten your money back and that you would probably update once you did. It reminded me of a few years back when my husband lost his job and every time somebody saw him he would be asked if he found one. Duh he would have said so if he had gotten a new one! It was just painful. So again, I’m sorry it’s still unresolved and it was dredged up again.

I felt so bad because I know people were asking for an update because they care and it sucks being held in limbo. If the situation were any different, I would have rushed back here to say "OMGERD! I got mon-nay!" But when I saw that the money came from @Ionysis again*, I got that niggling feeling that if I speak up too soon, then the money might stop coming :-\

*I know for sure it was @Ionysis, because even though the personally identifying info on the screenshot of the transfer confirmation was redacted more thoroughly this time, my banking app still shows the full name of the sender.

I admit I am utterly baffled by this whole thing, but the concept that as long as you get money back - eventually, someday, at some indeterminate time in the future, everything must be fine, is just so unbelievable as to be pretty much incomprehensible.

So if it takes 10 years, that's fine? That's eventually, right? It should just be 100% on the seller's timeline, whenever he feels like it, and that's just the way it is?

He offered her a refund. Nobody else made him do that. Nobody else made him state a return policy. Nobody made him decide that he could just offer a policy and assume nobody would ever ask him to make good on it. Nobody made him sell stones to foreign markets, which I'm sure he does because he knows there's better money in it for him. Somebody, however, is apparently advising him that just having random clients send money to other clients and take memo for future purchases and involving other dealers in the transaction is a perfectly acceptable method of circumventing financial restrictions, so there's that.

To me, this is the worst part.

He PROMISED he can easily issue me a refund right away. That was a lie.

He PROMISED to send me a full refund by JULY 26-27 (after he had already received the package the week prior). That was a lie.

He PROMISED he would send the refund through the black market money exchange system. That was a lie.

He PROMISED he would only subtract return shipping from my refund. That was a lie.

I haven’t disputed any of that. But I still think there’s an enormous difference between that and theft / fraud - which would be the case if the stone was sent back and money not returned.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Your argument is that as long as some money is returned, then it's not fraud??

Well, *puts on glasses*, the dictionary defines "fraud" as: "deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage."

Let's break that down:

"Deceit/Trickery/Sharp practice" - the vendor repeated lies and broke promises.

"Breach of confidence" - the vendor repeatedly shared personal info with 3rd parties, which includes him feeding you information about MY business with him.

"Perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage" - the vendor could have ended this fiasco back in July. Instead, he admitted he did not want to incur any loss on this transaction, which resulted in this dragging on for THREE MONTHS and counting.

Furthermore, in order to not incur literally any financial loss here, he subtracted return shipping and custom fees and a "return charge" from my refund.*

*Again, the deductions themselves were not surprising since most vendors have a policy that the client will be expected to cover one or more of these fees. My issue with this is that these fees were not disclosed beforehand. In fact, he PROMISED that he would only deduct return shipping. That was a lie. And so he robbed me of the ability to make an informed decision prior to purchasing from him.

So now, even if I get the remaining balance, I'm still out hundreds and hundreds of dollars more than I had expected initially.

So yeah, this is fraud.

 

[chrono]

I am left so speechless at how the vendor has treated you and continues to treat you to the point I am sorry I don't know what to say other than I am so sorry.

 

[kb1gra]

*Again, the deductions themselves were not surprising since most vendors have a policy that the client will be expected to cover one or more of these fees. My issue with this is that these fees were not disclosed beforehand. In fact, he PROMISED that he would only deduct return shipping. That was a lie. And so he robbed me of the ability to make an informed decision prior to purchasing from him.

So now, even if I get the remaining balance, I'm still out hundreds and hundreds of dollars more than I had expected initially.

So yeah, this is fraud.

I'm really so angry for you. Both for the transaction itself, and now the added stress this forum has brought you related to it.

 

[Sprinkles&Stones]

I felt so bad because I know people were asking for an update because they care and it sucks being held in limbo. If the situation were any different, I would have rushed back here to say "OMGERD! I got mon-nay!" But when I saw that the money came from @Ionysis again*, I got that niggling feeling that if I speak up too soon, then the money might stop coming :-\

*I know for sure it was @Ionysis, because even though the personally identifying info on the screenshot of the transfer confirmation was redacted more thoroughly this time, my banking app still shows the full name of the sender.



To me, this is the worst part.

He PROMISED he can easily issue me a refund right away. That was a lie.

He PROMISED to send me a full refund by JULY 26-27 (after he had already received the package the week prior). That was a lie.

He PROMISED he would send the refund through the black market money exchange system. That was a lie.

He PROMISED he would only subtract return shipping from my refund. That was a lie.



"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Your argument is that as long as some money is returned, then it's not fraud??

Well, *puts on glasses*, the dictionary defines "fraud" as: "deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage."

Let's break that down:

"Deceit/Trickery/Sharp practice" - the vendor repeated lies and broke promises.

"Breach of confidence" - the vendor repeatedly shared personal info with 3rd parties, which includes him feeding you information about MY business with him.

"Perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage" - the vendor could have ended this fiasco back in July. Instead, he admitted he did not want to incur any loss on this transaction, which resulted in this dragging on for THREE MONTHS and counting.

Furthermore, in order to not incur literally any financial loss here, he subtracted return shipping and custom fees and a "return charge" from my refund.*

*Again, the deductions themselves were not surprising since most vendors have a policy that the client will be expected to cover one or more of these fees. My issue with this is that these fees were not disclosed beforehand. In fact, he PROMISED that he would only deduct return shipping. That was a lie. And so he robbed me of the ability to make an informed decision prior to purchasing from him.

So now, even if I get the remaining balance, I'm still out hundreds and hundreds of dollars more than I had expected initially.

So yeah, this is fraud.

I’m so sorry I asked for an update! I wasn’t trying to cause you any drama I am so so sorry this is still ongoing. We support you and so hope this gets resolved ASAP

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

I’m so sorry I asked for an update! I wasn’t trying to cause you any drama I am so so sorry this is still ongoing. We support you and so hope this gets resolved ASAP

No need to apologize! I would have done the same. But mostly bc I'm a nosy nelly.

 

[Buttercookies]

I can’t believe I read through 10 pages of this thread and another related crazy thread. I need to lie down.

I am just so sorry Anastasia for having to go through with this. I think you have shown this seller a lot of patience, more than most people. I don’t think it’s fair at all for you having to wait to be “reimbursed”.

He should just issue the refund and swallow the risks of selling to international client.

That’s just business. If he can’t handle it, don’t be in the business.

I’m bumping this thread to keep it active.

 

[Module]

As promised, I will update once I hear back from AGL on the purchase I made. well the good news is that it is a Tsavaorite, not a piece of glass; the bad news is it is clarity treated by oil. I certainly expected an untreated stone originally, but after knowing his shady treatments on Anastasia, am I really surprised? Maybe not too much, a lesson learned.

 

[minousbijoux]

As promised, I will update once I hear back from AGL on the purchase I made. well the good news is that it is a Tsavaorite, not a piece of glass; the bad news is it is clarity treated by oil. I certainly expected an untreated stone originally, but after knowing his shady treatments on Anastasia, am I really surprised? Maybe not too much, a lesson learned.

Wow, @Module: so sorry - this is so unfortunate. I did not even know that oil treatment was a thing for tsavorites! Of course going after him to make you whole is like seeking water from a stone.

 

[icy_jade]

Wow, @Module: I did not even know that oil treatment was a thing for tsavorites!

Neither did I! Gosh.

 

[lilmosun]

Neither did I! Gosh.

My understanding is most stones can be oiled to enhance clarity but that doesn't make it an acceptable standard as it is for emeralds. Unlike heat treatment, it is not an expected treatment for tanzanite so personally I would not call it acceptable. I'm sorry about the outcome @Module but if it's any consolation, at least they deemed the degree of clarity enhancement minor.

Scary article on use of oil in many stones where it is not expected:

Oiled Spinel & Tanzanite • Shocking Revelations

When a red spinel and tanzanite were submitted for testing, oil was found in its fissures. Removal of the oil resulted in a startling deterioration in clarity.

www.lotusgemology.com

I feel awful for all who have been impacted by this vendor's practices. Even the best vendors can make mistakes or run into an occasional issue with a customer. But it is hard to condone or justify the on-going pattern of issues/misrepresentations/broken promises so many have had with this one particular vendor.

@lonysis I won't question your intent but if you want to help someone, reach out to them with the offer to help next time. It's easy enough using LT. Accepting their personal information so that you can try to secretly correct the wrongs of a vendor without the buyer knowing it and defending what is not defendable, gives the appearance of being a defacto agent for the seller. Just my opinion. While this vendor's behavior may be acceptable to you, if his reputation is in shatters over this, it means it is not acceptable to many.

 

[lilmosun]

I just realized that that it was a tsavorite, not a tanzanite.

While there have been rare reported findings of tanzanite being oiled, like others I have never heard of tsavorites being oiled (or having treatments at all) making selling an oiled stone without disclosure even more unacceptable. As I said, mistakes/oversights happen and a reputable vendor would give a full refund. But from the experience of others it seems that unlikely.

Apologies for not reading more carefully.

My understanding is most stones can be oiled to enhance clarity but that doesn't make it an acceptable standard as it is for emeralds. Unlike heat treatment, it is not an expected treatment for tanzanite so personally I would not call it acceptable. I'm sorry about the outcome @Module but if it's any consolation, at least they deemed the degree of clarity enhancement minor.

Scary article on use of oil in many stones where it is not expected:

Oiled Spinel & Tanzanite • Shocking Revelations

When a red spinel and tanzanite were submitted for testing, oil was found in its fissures. Removal of the oil resulted in a startling deterioration in clarity.

www.lotusgemology.com

I feel awful for all who have been impacted by this vendor's practices. Even the best vendors can make mistakes or run into an occasional issue with a customer. But it is hard to condone or justify the on-going pattern of issues/misrepresentations/broken promises so many have had with this one particular vendor. Rest of my thoughts stand.

@lonysis I won't question your intent but if you want to help someone, reach out to them with the offer to help next time. It's easy enough using LT. Accepting their personal information so that you can try to secretly correct the wrongs of a vendor without the buyer knowing it and defending what is not defendable, gives the appearance of being a defacto agent for the seller. Just my opinion. While this vendor's behavior may be acceptable to you, if his reputation is in shatters over this, it means it is not acceptable to many.

 

[Rfisher]

As promised, I will update once I hear back from AGL on the purchase I made. well the good news is that it is a Tsavaorite, not a piece of glass; the bad news is it is clarity treated by oil. I certainly expected an untreated stone originally, but after knowing his shady treatments on Anastasia, am I really surprised? Maybe not too much, a lesson learned.

I hope you are up to showing pictures (yours and listing) when you can.
totally understand expecting wholly untreated and receiving not that as a true disappointment.
not excusing the vendor in any capacity - but I’d be lying to say not still curious if the look is superb, if the price you paid is still very competitive even with the minor oil.

 

[yssie]

I had no idea that oiling garnets was a Thing. TIL.

 

[Module]

I hope you are up to showing pictures (yours and listing) when you can.
totally understand expecting wholly untreated and receiving not that as a true disappointment.
not excusing the vendor in any capacity - but I’d be lying to say not still curious if the look is superb, if the price you paid is still very competitive even with the minor oil.

In my case, the vendor's pictures represented the color fairly close to my eyes I see. If it is an untreated stone, I also think the price is fair, I paid $1,800 for it. But after knowing the clarify enhancement by oil, I'm not sure how it appearance will change after oil evaporated.

Here are the listing and vendor's pictures:





and below are my pictures quickly taken before sending to AGL:

 

[blingmeupscotty]

Buying from CeylonSapphireGems: An expensive mistake​

• Thread starterAnastasiaBeaverhausen
• Start dateAug 13, 2021

I can't even.. you poor girl..and STILL no full refund. ****ing obscene.

This entire story BEGS me to ask-do we have a vendor black list anywhere on PS? If we don't we should. This is unreal.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

In my case, the vendor's pictures represented the color fairly close to my eyes I see. If it is an untreated stone, I also think the price is fair, I paid $1,800 for it. But after knowing the clarify enhancement by oil, I'm not sure how it appearance will change after oil evaporated.

Here are the listing and vendor's pictures:





and below are my pictures quickly taken before sending to AGL:

Oh man this sucks. It's like paying for a new pair of [rhymes with HairPods], only to find out that they're actually refurbished (or worse, knockoffs). Doesn't matter how good they look now. They're not as described and not what you paid for.

 

[wildcat03]

I have a sapphire purchased from him that is still loose. I think I might send it for a lab report just out of curiosity's sake. It's on my to do list...so maybe some time in 2023.

 

[cheegg]

I have a sapphire purchased from him that is still loose. I think I might send it for a lab report just out of curiosity's sake. It's on my to do list...so maybe some time in 2023.

Same here. I have been thinking about doing that too, but really concerning if there is something wrong with it. All the stress dealing with him...??? I would rather just give myself a break at this point...
This seller is beyond dishonest and irresponsible

 

[Module]

Oh man this sucks. It's like paying for a new pair of [rhymes with HairPods], only to find out that they're actually refurbished (or worse, knockoffs). Doesn't matter how good they look now. They're not as described and not what you paid for.

I would not make the purchase had I known that it is clarity treated, it is not a mind-clean stone for me anymore. I thought tsavorite is a relatively safe bet, safer than ruby or emerald, the AGL report is quite an eye-opener.

@wildcat03 and @cheegg, I would suggest to get a separate lab report for your stone as well, for the peace of mind. My stone came with a local CGL (Ceylon Gem Lab) report but didn't mention any treatment in it.

 

[maru8888777]

I'm super confused by the tsavorite treatment.... is it baby oil that they are using? Green oil? I've heard of oil or wax being used, but then if the stones are cleaned (acetone?) the reports come back as not enhanced. Is it possible that this could be the case here too?
In any case, I'm sorry about this debacle. What a nightmare.

 

[chrono]

The tsavorite's oil treatment can be reversed but it will no longer be eye clean. I don't know the extent of the treatment but the inclusion that are now visible to the eye can be distracting.

 

[Ceylon Sapphire Gems]

As promised, I will update once I hear back from AGL on the purchase I made. well the good news is that it is a Tsavaorite, not a piece of glass; the bad news is it is clarity treated by oil. I certainly expected an untreated stone originally, but after knowing his shady treatments on Anastasia, am I really surprised? Maybe not too much, a lesson learned.

 

[blingmeupscotty]

Things that make you go hmmm

Two of the most popular man-made garnets used as diamond stimulants are Yttrium Aluminum Garnet and Gadolinium Gallium Garnet. Man-made garnets are cut similarly to natural garnets. There are a variety of color variations among gemstone stimulants. When impurities are incorporated into the garnet lattice, different color variations are produced.

Color of the garnet becomes predominately red when combined with magnesium. The stone turns green with chromium, yellow with titanium and purplish with vanadium. Blue garnet is available in man-made form with cobalt in its lattice. Other more rare combination produce pink and orange color stones.

 

[lovedogs]

I'm going to go ahead and trust AGL on this one. Given your appalling behavior and dishonesty, selling a treated stone as untreated is a tiny drop in the proverbial bucket.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

@Ceylon Sapphire Gems Oh there you are! How's the rest of my refund coming along?