CAD Concerns with Custom Ring Design - Thoughts?

[yssie]

I can summarize the difficulty and why so many jewellers are leery of this project (or are charging a lot).

- Your stone is 4ct, which means that the "attachment" of head to shank needs to be exponentially stronger than with an "average" sized stone
- Plus you don't want a doughnut, which would add some strength
- Plus you want platinum, which is a more malleable metal than gold - whack it and it'll shift out-of-place and stay out-of-place. (Whack alloyed gold and it tries to snap back). Adding to the complexity here in terms of keeping the head on straight
- Plus you want diamonds up the shoulders which turns those load-bearing areas into swiss cheese
- Plus you want the gallery to have no crossbars (but obviously don't want hulk prongs) - which constrains head strength, but at the same time you've got a 4ct stone which means those prongs need to be long. Long prongs + no crossbars = prongs will want to bend out of shape with daily use
- Plus there are only four prongs, which means that those prongs need to somehow be even stronger - because if you lose one prong you lose the stone

This setting is incredibly difficult to execute for a stone this size and your jewellers are right to have concerns...

 

[yssie]

CAD B is superior. Even with the smaller stone depicted.

Two reasons that jump off the page to me:
In CAD B the shank is as solid as can be at the head/shank attachment on the horizontal. Yellow arrow. It splits slightly later and the "back" arm of the split uses the shank itself for support. Orange circle. Whereas in CAD A the split has begin already by the time you reach the centerpoint of the joint, and the "front" arm is attached only on the horizontal - the split has undercut vertical support for that front arm right where it needs to actually be strongest.

White gold would really be better for this design than platinum... But honestly I would recommend against it overall, I think it would require overly delicate handling for an engagement ring.

 

[mjea]

Hi @manhattan_mined

Is outside of NYC a deal breaker? Your ring has Tomasz Donocik vibes but they are London-based and I have no idea if they do outside stones.

In NYC some people on this forum have made some very beautiful rings with Steven Kirsch?
[edited to add Leon Mege in NYC]

Good luck! Please update us when you’ve finalized and receive your ring!

 

[lovedogs]

I think @yssie Is spot on, as usual. I wasn't remembering that your stone is 4ct when I said it seemed like a simple design. I also wasn't Envisioning platinum, which makes things more difficult. 6 prongs would make things more secure for sure, as would crossbars.

Overall, the issue with this type of design is that It requires expertise which Jannpaul has and most others do not.
Also, this design won't allow you to wear a flush wedding band. Are you OK with that?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Spot on @yssie as usual.

 

[manhattan_mined]

@yssie - thanks a million for the detailed breakdown. That makes a lot more sense re: the difficulty. The diamond is 3.7 ct. (so technically closer to 3.5 than to 4 ct.). Might this mitigate the structural concerns at least a little bit? And would adding claws to each prong in lieu of a crossbar assist with stability?

JannPaul has a few videos that detail the creation of the ring; I wonder if there’s anything you see that doesn’t show up in either of these CADs that does show up in the video that better ensures stability. One video is below.

@lovedogs I am okay with the wedding band not being flush; I will have a spacer (which won’t fully address the gap, but will help) and then a wedding band sitting under that.

@mjea Outside of NYC isn’t a dealbreaker, but a vendor outside the U.S. is likely a no-go for us. Thanks for the recs, though! We previously looked into working with Leon, but they only accept heirloom diamonds if the gemstone wasn’t bought directly from them. As for Steven Kirsch, I’ve seen his portfolio, and there doesn’t seem to be a similar piece (but he does do fabulous work, no question). I think I’ll still reach out to him to get his take.

There is one jeweler I accidentally stumbled upon a few days ago whose portfolio might have rings with similar complexity - I’ll have to dig through my search history, but I’ll for sure send updates as they come!

 

[mjea]

@yssie - thanks a million for the detailed breakdown. That makes a lot more sense re: the difficulty. The diamond is 3.7 ct. (so technically closer to 3.5 than to 4 ct.). Might this mitigate the structural concerns at least a little bit? And would adding claws to each prong in lieu of a crossbar assist with stability?

JannPaul has a few videos that detail the creation of the ring; I wonder if there’s anything you see that doesn’t show up in either of these CADs that does show up in the video that better ensures stability. One video is below.

@lovedogs I am okay with the wedding band not being flush; I will have a spacer (which won’t fully address the gap, but will help) and then a wedding band sitting under that.

@mjea Outside of NYC isn’t a dealbreaker, but a vendor outside the U.S. is likely a no-go for us. Thanks for the recs, though! We previously looked into working with Leon, but they only accept heirloom diamonds if the gemstone wasn’t bought directly from them. As for Steven Kirsch, I’ve seen his portfolio, and there doesn’t seem to be a similar piece (but he does do fabulous work, no question). I think I’ll still reach out to him to get his take.

There is one jeweler I accidentally stumbled upon a few days ago whose portfolio might have rings with similar complexity - I’ll have to dig through my search history, but I’ll for sure send updates as they come!

Hope it works out! I think the video emphasizes the area that @yssie circled in CAD 2 - she’s spot on. That ring is also designed around a 2.2ct stone I believe.

 

[manhattan_mined]

Hope it works out! I think the video emphasizes the area that @yssie circled in CAD 2 - she’s spot on. That ring is also designed around a 2.2ct stone I believe.

That ring is designed around a 2.27ct. ring, yes. Though I will say that two of the jewelers hesitated upon seeing the video without knowing our carat size. But yeah - our carat size certainly doesn’t make it any easier.

Regardless, every quote we got for the ring (except jeweler 2) was just above or below $2000, and I’m certainly willing to stretch the budget a bit to accommodate for the complexity of the ring.

I very luckily found the jeweler that I stumbled upon a few days ago and just emailed their team. Looks like they create detailed mock-ups before hand-forging their custom pieces. Fingers crossed that it works out. I’ll certainly return and update!

 

[Rfisher]

I have no experience nor knowledge about JP rings and their benches to gauge their ability to make this ring for your diamond size in a secure way. But at least they have invested r&d and experience with it.

I know you have said it is cost prohibitive, and they won’t set outside stones. Sad, yes.

this is similar to asking another jeweler to replicate Mark Morrel’s three prong ring, imo, and not expecting to go thru some trial and error. And time, which is money.
you’ve stated it‘s simple. Sometimes simple is harder to do right!!

and do wonder if JP doing their ring style in a larger center would be noticeably heftier (like MM’s three prong was) to provide stability and security?

I do get wanting what exact style & look you envision that for reasons isn’t easily available.
but do recommend if you do find a jeweler that you click with, love the look of their finished jewelry, if they fail, or shy away from copying another jewelers design -
Do be open to them coming with their own version of
this general idea of ring.
and if it ends up looking like Artcarved or A.Jaffe understand why. I think maybe you’ll need to accept something a bit heftier. Not bulky, but a bit……more.

 

[lovedogs]

I have no experience nor knowledge about JP rings and their benches to gauge their ability to make this ring for your diamond size in a secure way. But at least they have invested r&d and experience with it.

I know you have said it is cost prohibitive, and they won’t set outside stones. Sad, yes.

this is similar to asking another jeweler to replicate Mark Morrel’s three prong ring, imo, and not expecting to go thru some trial and error. And time, which is money.
you’ve stated it‘s simple. Sometimes simple is harder to do right!!

and do wonder if JP doing their ring style in a larger center would be noticeably heftier (like MM’s three prong was) to provide stability and security?

I do get wanting what exact style & look you envision that for reasons isn’t easily available.
but do recommend if you do find a jeweler that you click with, love the look of their finished jewelry, if they fail, or shy away from copying another jewelers design -
Do be open to them coming with their own version of
this general idea of ring.
and if it ends up looking like Artcarved or A.Jaffe understand why. I think maybe you’ll need to accept something a bit heftier. Not bulky, but a bit……more.

I came here to post that a.jaffe ring. I like it, and at least OP knows it is doable because they make it regularly

 

[yssie]

JP’s is fully hand forged. No cast components - all gold from bars, bent and hammered and rolled and polished into shape. Working solid alloyed platinum like that makes it stronger - less malleable - than casting it (liquifying it and letting it set in a mould).

Bit ditto @Rfisher and @lovedogs. Very likely JP themselves would want to change the mount to suit a larger stone. And they have experience doing so - they’d know what to adjust and how to do it. Another vendor trying to recreate that style of mount with a different method of manufacture… It’s not going to look the same. (If it does, it’s wouldn’t be safe to wear)

If you search this forum there are dozens upon dozens of people trying to replicate the Tiffany classic solitaire mount every month. None of those replicas is 100% dead on, even after gobs of iterations. Close, yes, but none exactly match. And that’s a much simpler mount than this one

I’m against having one vendor try to replicate another vendor’s custom designs - in this case, like everyone else, I advise against it for both functional and philosophical reasons.

 

[mjea]

It’s like @yssie, @Rfisher, and @lovedogs knew the things I wanted to say but didn’t know how to, and then put it all together so perfectly.

There are a lot of experienced people here with custom work, with some incredible eyes for detail. Hope you’ll share your journey and CADs.

If this new jeweler you found is a good fit- I hope they’ll give you good guidance about what they can and can’t/won’t do, and I hope you’ll consider some design elements that set this ring apart from JPs and makes it yours in both form and function!

 

[Dreamer_D]

That art carved and the jaffe ones look pretty close. Maybe better to go with one of those or another style all together than to seek someone to make such a difficult to execute setting they have never made before.

 

[manhattan_mined]

Just catching up - thanks, all, for the detailed insight. It certainly has been helpful!

Also, I did some digging and just discovered that my partner sent Jeweler 2 the incorrect diamond cert #. I was still struggling to understand what went wrong, so I asked to see the emails my partner sent to Jeweler 2 as well as the confirmation email from the order. Sure enough, my partner sent the cert. no. for a 1.35 round brilliant diamond. I have no idea where in the heck my partner got the random cert. no. Sometimes, you just gotta laugh out loud. Whew. So, I say that to say I'm truly sorry for this whole thing has been messier than it's needed to be. Guess I'll be the one sending all the emails from now on, hah.

Needless to say, I'm refraining from passing judgment onto Jeweler 2, because it's possible that the massive difference between the 1.35 and 3.70 led to such big differences in their CAD and the CAD from Jeweler 1.

@Rfisher I appreciate you sending the A.Jaffe pieces. Those are very similar, and given the concerns with structural integrity (plus the opportunity to add some personal elements to the ring), I'm on board with some modifications, or a complete redesign with a few nods to the JP ring.

I'm also inquiring to see if it might be a better decision to do 18k palladium white gold (can't do regular WG because of allergies). Given the feedback here on the risk with doing platinum with this style of ring (or a similar style), maybe it's better.

Will continue to send updates!

 

[manhattan_mined]

I know it’s been about a million years since I’ve posted, but I have an update, as promised. We did reach out to SK (which didn’t go too well, but that happens sometimes). We essentially offered him a blank check, so it wasn’t a matter of funds. That’s where I’ll leave it. We reached out to two other NYC jewelers, and those attempts at the ring were okay, but not the best. We also met with JPX Jewelry, and their team is incredible. They could’ve unquestionably made the ring, but I think they wanted to do something a bit more original vs. a replica (which we fully understood). I’d work with their team any day on a future piece, though.

Ultimately, we went overseas (quite unexpectedly stumbled upon a jeweler) and gave it a shot with MDTC Jewelry. I believe they used to operate out of NYC but they are now in Hong Kong. Working with them was an awesome experience, and we were really impressed with their craftsmanship. All handforged, great communication, and pretty fast turnaround time. They got the design pretty much bang-on, and we weren’t made to feel as if we were asking for too much, unlike our experiences with a few of the aforementioned shops. I learned quite a lot from those of you who commented on this thread, and I thank you all for the input!

 

[togal]

They did a beautiful job! It's gorgeous.