Calling for antique emerald cut experts - close to pulling the trigger on 4+ carat stone!

[RX1990]

Hi,

Over the past month I have been trying to familiarize myself more with antique emerald cut (or "cut-cornered rectangular step cut) diamonds as part of trying to find an ideal center stone for an engagement ring. This process started with browsing antique diamond options (old mine, old euro, etc.) until my girlfriend saw a particular ring that she instantly fell for and I am now trying to recreate. Image of that one is at the bottom of this post.

I started this search with the goal in mind of trying to keep the center stone budget under 6 figures, if possible, with the understanding I'd have some flexibility if the perfect stone came along. In addition to the general grade targets below, what I cared about finding the most is the following: i) reasonably clipped corner cuts (not too boxy), ii) length to width ratio of 1.15x to 1.3x (nothing too square like a traditional Asscher and nothing too rectangular like a modern emerald), iii) open culet , and iv) facets that you can see overhead that are nearly "touching windmills" that almost connect in the center but all connect at the open culet.

On the stats, I was hoping to find a stone with 4.5-5.0 carat weight, VS2 to VVS2 clarity (somewhat flexible), and I color or higher.

Here is a shortlist of diamonds I've been able to narrow it down to (carat, color, clarity - length x width x height - depth, table)

1. 5.05, G, VVS1 - 10.47 x 8.96 x 6.57 - 73.3%, 55.0% - GIA link
   • Note - this one is a bit higher than my original budget
2. 4.07, F, SI1 - 10.48 x 8.04 x 5.72 - 71.2%, 61.0% - GIA link
   • Note - this is the top contender on the list right now that I am very close to moving forward on
   • It's an SI1 but from photos and videos from jeweler, it appears to be pretty clean with inclusions in the corner pocket (covered by prong) and non visible cloud. It also seems to have less height than others that results in length and width suggesting it appears a bit bigger and closer to some of the larger stones on the list
3. 4.09, G, VS1 - 8.84 x 8.16 x 6.58 - 80.6%, 48.0% - GIA link
   • Note - has medium blue fluorescence.
   • This is about as square as I'd be willing to go and not super ideal to me. Also, without being an expert on this style, the depth and table ratios are a bit of an outlier compared to many others I have seen
4. 4.46, K, IF - 9.85 x 8.51 x 6.45 - 75.8%, 47.0% - (no online GIA link due to date of report, but have seen report)
   • Note - has medium blue fluorescence.
   • I am thinking this one is on my short list but need to see in person due to color. Was told it is a very "white" K and guessing fluorescence might help with this, but I am a bit skeptical until I can see this one with my own eyes.
   • Based on measurements, this one might look a bit "small" due to more weight down below?

Video links: side by side of diamond 2 (4.07 F) and diamond 1 (5.05 G) (link), diamond 2 in office (link), diamond 2 in office near window (link), and diamond 1 in office lighting (link). Note - ignore the setting the 4.07 stone is currently in.

I don't want to post exact prices (happy to provide more on that if helpful in getting more feedback). Option 4 is the cheapest (and about 25% and 30% cheaper than options 2 and 3, respectively), followed by Option 2 (9% cheaper than Option 3), then Option 3, the Option 1. All but Option 1 are within my budget, with Option 4 very comfortably in budget likely due to color.

I recognize these stats are all over the place a bit, but it's been a function of checking with a lot of jewelers and seeing what's available that meets my general requirements (the open culet, length to width ratio, facet appearance, etc.). It's taken a lot of leg work to narrow down to even this list of wide stats.

I welcome any input on these from anyone that's an expert in antique emerald cuts and are familiar with this 1.15x - 1.3x length to width ratio I am going for. Keen to hear any thoughts on dimensions for these carat weights, depth and table stats, etc.

Also, image below of the antique setting I'm looking to recreate (includes French-cut side stones). Note that the diamond in this particular ring is ~4.75-4.8 carats with dimensions of 11.07 x 8.65 x 6.11 (length, width, height). It has a 1.28x length to width ratio. With that in mind, I think diamond 2 above is a great "close match" in what I am trying to accomplish here.

 

[musicloveranthony]

My eyes lean toward the one in the ring. I prefer the shape of the unmounted stone, but I don't find the light performance of it to be as impressive as the mounted stone

 

[madelise]

Numbers don’t mean anything much for fancy cuts, specifically for antiques. You need to post actual photos of all your options for appropriate feedback.

The two you showed videos for are very “meh”. The 4.07 has very messy faceting that doesn’t feel antique-y and blocky. The 5.05’s deeper cut corners don’t match the lack of open culet for an antique feel. It looks modern.

Neither has the feel of your inspiration ring. I’d pass on both.

 

[madelise]

Your color/clarity combo ask is also atypical for antiques. Most antique stones with higher grades were recut so they don’t really exist much anymore. Plus antiques look “antique” for their warmer colors.

If you’re looking for a high color/clarity combo, plus with your large budget, you might as well go contact Jonathan/Rhino for a newly cut stone fashioned after an antique. I think he has some proprietary antique EC cut that is designed for optimal lighting refraction or something.

 

[lovedogs]

We can only judge w videos. Of 1 and 2, I like the fatter one much better

 

[madelise]

We can only judge w videos. Of 1 and 2, I like the fatter one much better

Ya I technically like the fatter one (5.05) “more” too. But for an up to 6 figure budget, my heart hurts at the idea of settling for it.

 

[RX1990]

Your color/clarity combo ask is also atypical for antiques. Most antique stones with higher grades were recut so they don’t really exist much anymore. Plus antiques look “antique” for their warmer colors.

If you’re looking for a high color/clarity combo, plus with your large budget, you might as well go contact Jonathan/Rhino for a newly cut stone fashioned after an antique. I think he has some proprietary antique EC cut that is designed for optimal lighting refraction or something.

Thanks for the insight. I have certainly heard a bit of that while going through this process. Just as a matter of preference, I am trying to avoid diamonds in the K to P range if possible.

Thank you for the tip on Distinctive Gem/Rhino as well. I just went on that website to take a look. Unfortunately not seeing anything there that is an exact match for what I had in mind regarding the length to width ratio. His vintage asscher looks beautiful but too square (1:1 length:width) for what I had in mind. I will reach out to him on his site though and see if there is something possible here!

 

[RX1990]

Ya I technically like the fatter one (5.05) “more” too. But for an up to 6 figure budget, my heart hurts at the idea of settling for it.

Thanks for this input. Just to be clear as well - the 5.05 VVS1 is a bit out of budget as well and frankly just a little bit more than my absolute limit if I were to come across something that was "perfect". By out of budget, without going into specifics, its about ~30% higher.

Aside from the videos and certs that have been provided to me (and shared here), are there any specifics I should be asking from sellers? Just high quality still photos from overhead and side profile?

 

[madelise]

Thanks for the insight. I have certainly heard a bit of that while going through this process. Just as a matter of preference, I am trying to avoid diamonds in the K to P range if possible.

Thank you for the tip on Distinctive Gem/Rhino as well. I just went on that website to take a look. Unfortunately not seeing anything there that is an exact match for what I had in mind regarding the length to width ratio. His vintage asscher looks beautiful but too square (1:1 length:width) for what I had in mind. I will reach out to him on his site though and see if there is something possible here!

Def reach out to him! He can custom cut anything. He can also search for you.

 

[lulu_ma]

Can you get videos of 3 & 4?

I am curious to see the K. For other antique cuts like OECs and OMCs, K color can look bright white.

 

[madelise]

Thanks for this input. Just to be clear as well - the 5.05 VVS1 is a bit out of budget as well and frankly just a little bit more than my absolute limit if I were to come across something that was "perfect". By out of budget, without going into specifics, its about ~30% higher.

Aside from the videos and certs that have been provided to me (and shared here), are there any specifics I should be asking from sellers? Just high quality still photos from overhead and side profile?

I know most antique dealers don’t believe in using ASET but it gives me peace of mind to know there’s minimal light leakage. For a “steal of a deal” small fun piece, I don’t really care for it to be perfect. But you have a seemingly large budget that I just don’t feel comfortable not recommending considering using an ASET in addition to your eyes.

Video of the diamonds moving from side to side slowly are the most helpful for examining every angle. You want to be able to catch any potential dead zones that might hide in still photography. Diffuse lighting is best. Go outside and use the sunlight! The artificial light indoors doesn’t do any old cut diamonds any good. If they refuse to let you outside, go to a window?

I want you to be VERY picky.

You’re playing with a huge budget and you need to be picky.

 

[Lookinagain]

want you to be VERY picky.

You’re playing with a huge budget and you need to be picky.

absolutely. you shouldn't settle for the amount of money you are spending. I'd reduce size over performance/cut if necessary. Not sure that it is, but I'm just saying don't choose size over the other things that matter. Oh, and what finger size are we talking about? That would help.

 

[RX1990]

Can you get videos of 3 & 4?

I am curious to see the K. For other antique cuts like OECs and OMCs, K color can look bright white.

Here is a video of diamond 4 (link). Here is are some photos of diamond 4 (link). This is the 4.46 K color IF clarity with medium blue fluorescence. Disregard the setting it is currently in. I recognize this makes it tough to assess, but it's the best I have until I can see the stone next week...

I don't have one of number 3 but I am already leaning against that one given their minimum price and the fact that it's a bit more square than I would like.

 

[madelise]

Here is a video of diamond 4 (link). Here is are some photos of diamond 4 (link). This is the 4.46 K color IF clarity with medium blue fluorescence. Disregard the setting it is currently in. I recognize this makes it tough to assess, but it's the best I have until I can see the stone next week...

I don't have one of number 3 but I am already leaning against that one given their minimum price and the fact that it's a bit more square than I would like.

I remember this ring from when Grace was selling it. It sold to a PSer, right? Is it still in that setting? Will you be losing $ because you need to compensate for the setting?

THAT is a beautiful stone. It’s an incredible facet pattern. I don’t usually like “IF” grade because you’re paying for something you visually cannot discern from VS1 but you did prefer higher clarity grade.

How do you feel about it being K? J-K is my favorite spot for antiques so I’m biased. The fluorescence will help keep it cool, though, so it may even look whiter than that?

 

[RX1990]

absolutely. you shouldn't settle for the amount of money you are spending. I'd reduce size over performance/cut if necessary. Not sure that it is, but I'm just saying don't choose size over the other things that matter. Oh, and what finger size are we talking about? That would help.

I hear you on that, and I have been continually trying to prioritize other aspects without maximizing on carat weight. I've also learned with these types of diamonds recently that carat weight alone does not give the full picture on size and its appearance.

Her estimated ring size is 5. Need to double check on this.

Below is an image of her trying on the "ideal" ring that I am trying to recreate, which is shown on the bottom of the original post. For reference, this is between 4.75-4.8 carats and measures 11.07 x 8.65 x 6.11 (length, width, height).

 

[RX1990]

Def reach out to him! He can custom cut anything. He can also search for you.

Thank you. First thing on my to-do list tomorrow once I am out of the house and away from her

 

[madelise]

That’s an incredible ring on her, and her ring size is petite enough that it all will look “huge” on her!

Is that inspiration ring not available to buy?

 

[lovedogs]

I love the jewels by grace option. Much nicer than the others even though I usually hate IF due to the $ premium

 

[lulu_ma]

This one is "name brand" but it's in your price range and very pretty so I am throwing it into the mix. Hancock's really has the best selection of elongated asschers imo.

Of course, it's in London so not the easiest to see in person...

4.37ct Asscher-Cut Diamond Ring with Diamond Shoulders | Hancocks London

A stunning asscher-cut diamond ring by Hancocks, the ring centred on a beautiful asscher diamond weighing 4.37cts and of I colour with VS1 clarity, corner claw set in platinum between trapezoid and tapered baguette diamond shoulders weighing 0.73cts in total, the stones rub over set in platinum...

www.hancocks-london.com

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am most taken by the K IF. My understanding is that clarity has less impact on price in this carat range and rarity of cut, so the IF is less of a put-off than it might otherwise be for me. Maybe it’s a little bonus. Like a fun fact. I also imagine that quality was quite special when it was cut. And it’s amazing such a clean stone was spared the cutting wheel as well. All told a nice feature in an old diamond.

I happen to think K-L is a sweet spot for antique stones. They look white most of the time but they also have a lovely warmth that combined with the cutting style that favours coloured light return, really makes them look different than modern stones. Also in this day of lab diamonds I happen to think a little tint in an antique is a good thing to make it stand out as natural.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I hear you on that, and I have been continually trying to prioritize other aspects without maximizing on carat weight. I've also learned with these types of diamonds recently that carat weight alone does not give the full picture on size and its appearance.

Her estimated ring size is 5. Need to double check on this.

Below is an image of her trying on the "ideal" ring that I am trying to recreate, which is shown on the bottom of the original post. For reference, this is between 4.75-4.8 carats and measures 11.07 x 8.65 x 6.11 (length, width, height).

What color is this inspiration ring? Looks warm. How did you feel about the color?

 

[RX1990]

This one is "name brand" but it's in your price range and very pretty so I am throwing it into the mix. Hancock's really has the best selection of elongated asschers imo.

Of course, it's in London so not the easiest to see in person...

4.37ct Asscher-Cut Diamond Ring with Diamond Shoulders | Hancocks London

A stunning asscher-cut diamond ring by Hancocks, the ring centred on a beautiful asscher diamond weighing 4.37cts and of I colour with VS1 clarity, corner claw set in platinum between trapezoid and tapered baguette diamond shoulders weighing 0.73cts in total, the stones rub over set in platinum...

www.hancocks-london.com

Thanks for this. I actually came across their site early in this "antique asscher" exploration process and agree this was the best one I could find with regards to my parameters and budget.

I forgot about reaching out to them since I first bookmarked their site given the distance issue with London. I will send them a note though tomorrow to see what's potentially possible with this one. I unfortunately don't see myself being able to make a quick weekend trip to London the next few months...

 

[lulu_ma]

Thanks for this. I actually came across their site early in this "antique asscher" exploration process and agree this was the best one I could find with regards to my parameters and budget.

I forgot about reaching out to them since I first bookmarked their site given the distance issue with London. I will send them a note though tomorrow to see what's potentially possible with this one. I unfortunately don't see myself being able to make a quick weekend trip to London the next few months...

Perhaps you can get more info-dimensions etc and post a video here.

One thing to note, loose stones shipped from out of the country are duty free. So if you were to move forward with this stone, I would have it shipped unmounted and separate from any setting.

 

[RX1990]

What color is this inspiration ring? Looks warm. How did you feel about the color?

It's an E color and VVS2 clarity. I think that might just be the indoor lighting in that particular photo of her wearing it. That one was really taken more so just to get a different point of view/perspective on size.

Here is another shot of that one on her for perspective.

 

[Dreamer_D]

It's an E color and VVS2 clarity. I think that might just be the indoor lighting in that particular photo of her wearing it. That one was really taken more so just to get a different point of view/perspective on size.

Here is another shot of that one on her for perspective.

Yeah lighting really affects color!

I feel like what you are looking for is so rare that rather than trying to find a stone that’s the same as that in proportions etc you focus on finding one that just really captures your heart. Each is unique when it comes to old cuts and that is what is so special about them anyway.

I also really liked the G from the original post but understand why it’s eliminated based on budget.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

The inspo ring is beautiful. If she fell in love with the E color, you might want to ask if she will be ok with I color. (Maybe she will!)

Agree you should contact DG. They can cut and/or find things that are not listed on their website.

Opinions vary on where the diamond market will go. You can see the fast price decrease over the past year and a half for 4+ carat emeralds in D-I color range by going to the PS main page. On the other hand, prices went up slowly for two years before they plummeted, so I’m not saying you should time the market. But waiting is an option.

 

[Tonks]

Someone should really start cutting emeralds like this, with the culet and an antique look. It seems like PSers really love this twist on an EC (including myself in this bunch).

 

[Tonks]

The inspo ring is beautiful. If she fell in love with the E color, you might want to ask if she will be ok with I color. (Maybe she will!)

Agree you should contact DG. They can cut and/or find things that are not listed on their website.

Opinions vary on where the diamond market will go. You can see the fast price decrease over the past year and a half for 4+ carat emeralds in D-I color range by going to the PS main page. On the other hand, prices went up slowly for two years before they plummeted, so I’m not saying you should time the market. But waiting is an option.

Oh! That’s a great idea to contact DG. Totally forgot they have an AV cut like this.

 

[RX1990]

Oh! That’s a great idea to contact DG. Totally forgot they have an AV cut like this.

Thanks. I spoke to Jonathan this morning on the phone and emailed him some examples of what I am looking for exactly. His August Vintage Emerald Cut online isn't exactly a match, but we'll see what is possible on the custom side!

 

[RX1990]

This one is "name brand" but it's in your price range and very pretty so I am throwing it into the mix. Hancock's really has the best selection of elongated asschers imo.

Of course, it's in London so not the easiest to see in person...

4.37ct Asscher-Cut Diamond Ring with Diamond Shoulders | Hancocks London

A stunning asscher-cut diamond ring by Hancocks, the ring centred on a beautiful asscher diamond weighing 4.37cts and of I colour with VS1 clarity, corner claw set in platinum between trapezoid and tapered baguette diamond shoulders weighing 0.73cts in total, the stones rub over set in platinum...

www.hancocks-london.com

Here are two short video clips they sent of this one (link) along with the GIA cert (link). Welcome any thoughts but recognize these aren't the most helpful videos. The price without the mounting (79k GBP) is right at the ceiling of target budget for just the center stone, but I am not sold on this one especially given it's overseas. Maybe it's just the how the video is taken, but I feel like the 4.07 stone "sings" to me more just based on the videos. I also need to check if that price is inclusive of VAT and if that means I catch any break on buying and sending to US if I am serious about this one.