PastryGirl
Shiny_Rock
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I'm also wondering about the original/inspiration ring, why not just buy that one?
Calling for antique emerald cut experts - close to pulling the trigger on 4+ carat stone!
- Thread starter RX1990
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I'm also wondering about the original/inspiration ring, why not just buy that one?
It is still available for sale. Unfortunately it is priced significantly above my budget, and frankly, at a premium that neither I nor any other antique jeweler I have mentioned it to can justify. Let's just say the asking price is in excess of 4x my budget. I believe this partly due luxury retailer selling it and a "collector's premium" given it is the diamond comes with the original, matching setting and also comes with original box and even original bill of sale/receipt from the 1920s.
I am sure it's easy to find online given the details I shared in the original post. It's an incredible ring and I have nothing but the best things about the jeweler selling it, their fantastic collection of antique and modern jeweler, and their customer service.
Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Great idea. They’ll stretch your budget further, too, which is always nice. I’m not sure if Leidy (Sin City) custom searches but Jocelyn (Gilded Lane) certainly does!
I’ll also throw Dolly (bijouxbox) into the mix. I currently have my ring upgrade awaiting to arrive by Dolly, and she’s been so wonderful to work with.
I’ve purchased from all of the above IG sellers and they’re all phenomenal.
lulu_ma
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Agreed. I will ask for an ASET of the 4.07 carat diamond. I am seeing the K color one later this week on Friday. I suspect it will still be in the mount when I first see it but will obviously want to inspect the diamond outside of the mounting if the diamond ends up being a serious contender.
Thank you and @Dreamer_D for these additional recommendations. I have not looked at many of the "IG sellers" up to now aside from starting a conversation with Dovi / londonjeweller. I will try to set some time aside today to see what they have available. Noted on Gilded Lane being able to do some custom searches.
Update here. Dealer with the 4.07 ct F color does not have an ASET scope for that diamond. I could obviously inspect it first hand but will require a large deposit and him to send it across the country (not ideal unless I was ready to really move forward on that one).
Seeing the 4.46 ct K color on Friday. Hoping it will be unmounted and asking in advance for that.
Also been talking to Jonathan at DG. He knows exactly what I am looking for and I am sure he could deliver. Only concerns with this route is timeline (will take longer due to getting a custom cut diamond), the "lab" thing (never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd find myself in a position to consider lab, but that's a whole separate matter), and needing to figure out what to do with the stone if I go with him. On the last part, given the very antique setting I have in mind, I need to make that happen with this diamond.
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lulu_ma
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If the 4.07 stone is a contender, it would be better to assess irl. You just have to make sure that it is returnable.
In terms of the lab question, how will your partner feel about that?
I just saw this video, which I found to be quite surprising...
In terms of a setting, I think David Klass could definitely create that setting for you.
In terms of the lab question, how will your partner feel about that?
I just saw this video, which I found to be quite surprising...
In terms of a setting, I think David Klass could definitely create that setting for you.
100% agree on that 4.07 stone. It is returnable, they just need a big deposit for them to mail it to me for inspection.
I wish I had a someone local who is a personal friend / someone I could trust that has expertise in antique cuts that I could show it to in person. I guess the Pricescope community will have to do
. I say this because I fear once I see the diamond in person, it may look totally great to me but I am not getting an expert's view on value, etc.For what it's worth, the asking price for the 4.07 stone is about ~10% below my target budget all-in (mounting included). There does seem to be some "scarcity" premium on this style of antique diamond based on the datapoints I've gathered so far. By premium, I am looking at the prices of some of these antique rectangular cuts and comparing them to a modern equivalent emerald or Asscher cut of similar carat weight, color, and clarity. Doesn't appear I am saving much (or at all) by going antique. If I do a similar comparison of old European or old Mine cut to a modern round brilliant diamond, there seems to be some more "savings" you get by going antique.
On the lab question - I know she does not care. She was actually the one who brought it up (given very limited mined options, she wondered if this was something that could be recreated with a custom cut stone). That said, I personally never liked the idea nor did I ever consider going with one as an option. If I was looking at any other diamond cut/shape that was more common to find (e.g., round), I wouldn't consider it. I'll keep the rest of my thoughts on lab to myself right now, because that is a whole separate topic
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lulu_ma
Ideal_Rock
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I would order an ASET. It’s short money.
In terms of viewing the 4.07 ct, wouldn’t you have to pay for the stone first? How much saving do you get if you have someone else make the setting.
True antique stones, especially those in higher colors K and up, can actually carry a premium versus modern cut stones. So many of them were recut that true antiques are on the rare side.
Perhaps you will have more clarity after you see the K color tomorrow.
In terms of viewing the 4.07 ct, wouldn’t you have to pay for the stone first? How much saving do you get if you have someone else make the setting.
True antique stones, especially those in higher colors K and up, can actually carry a premium versus modern cut stones. So many of them were recut that true antiques are on the rare side.
Perhaps you will have more clarity after you see the K color tomorrow.
Do you have a relatively affordable one that you would recommend?
Appreciate your perspective on antique diamonds. This is helpful to hear as I think about prices and try to find ways to rationalize one option vs. another beyond them just being in my budget and looking at grades.
Seeing the K color stone on Friday. I hope that one goes well! I will try to get some good close up photos of it that I can share here.
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100% agree on that 4.07 stone. It is returnable, they just need a big deposit for them to mail it to me for inspection.
I wish I had a someone local who is a personal friend / someone I could trust that has expertise in antique cuts that I could show it to in person. I guess the Pricescope community will have to do
For what it's worth, the asking price for the 4.07 stone is about ~10% below my target budget all-in (mounting included). There does seem to be some "scarcity" premium on this style of antique diamond based on the datapoints I've gathered so far. By premium, I am looking at the prices of some of these antique rectangular cuts and comparing them to a modern equivalent emerald or Asscher cut of similar carat weight, color, and clarity. Doesn't appear I am saving much (or at all) by going antique. If I do a similar comparison of old European or old Mine cut to a modern round brilliant diamond, there seems to be some more "savings" you get by going antique.
On the lab question - I know she does not care. She was actually the one who brought it up (given very limited mined options, she wondered if this was something that could be recreated with a custom cut stone). That said, I personally never liked the idea nor did I ever consider going with one as an option. If I was looking at any other diamond cut/shape that was more common to find (e.g., round), I wouldn't consider it. I'll keep the rest of my thoughts on lab to myself right now, because that is a whole separate topic
If you’re in San Francisco Bay Area, I have an ASET and I don’t think I’m that shabby at identifying potential light play issues. (My original engagement ring was an antique emerald cut, and I’ve owned OECs and OMCs). Happy to lend you an eye and scope. (Or anyone else reading this who may need to borrow a scope).
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Take videos too. Aim for natural diffuse light and very very slowly move the stone side to side and up and down and round and round so we can check how the light play is moving from all angles.
I find the best way to see contrast is if the light source is coming from behind your hand. E.g. stand in front of a window facing the window and your hand holding the stone either leaning on your fingers or in a stone holder.
Thank you for the very generous offer. Unfortunately I am down in LA but I greatly appreciate it!
Noted regarding tips and instructions on videos and capturing different angles under various lighting conditions. On your last point - essentially face a window and have your hand between the window and the diamond? So your hand is blocking the light from the window from directly hitting the diamond?
Eager to report back tomorrow once I've seen it! My biggest concern at this time is the K color and what I think of that in person.
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I found the advice Yssie gave me years ago when I first went shopping for my antique stone:
I hope this helps.
Lighting - okay, that's tougher in a public venue, likely limited space and I guess you don't want to make it obvious you're carrying a diamond around the floor! Hopefully you'll have some privacy, and *some* mobility and at least a couple of types of lighting to play with, but if not.. what I mean by "type of light" is that in some lights - spotlights - all diamonds show coloured light, in some lights like diffuse office light all diamonds are white and bright, in mixed types of lights diamonds with different proportions and faceting can behave differently, and by seeing the stones in different types of lights you could see if one stood out to you across a variety of lights...
In a pinch a sheet or two of plain white printer paper (the regular sort, not the ultra-white fluorescent/UV stuff) blocking the overhead lights can be "diffuse light" and a penlight like the type you'd put on a keychain pushed through the paper is a pretty good "spotlight". It's not perfect obviously - it's a very small area and there are other types of lights and colours around you - but it'll give you some idea! If you want to see "leakage" you can take some red paper or a red cloth and hold the stone face-up over it (not touching it) and look for areas of red through the stone. It can be kinda hard to see, since you're leaning over it and obstructing as well - I've cut eyeholes in white paper and looked and photographed through them, the paper prevents over-obstruction from leaning over at such close range, but I guess in a public venue you'd get some strange looks
I hope this helps.
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Re: the K color,
It’s actually my ideal range. J-K is perfect because it’s the tiniest bit of warmth that’s barely visible unless you’re really paying attention or you place it immediately adjacent to whiter stones as a contrast. Antiques’ blockier facets always face up whiter than modern brilliant facets, so you’ll notice the color pretty much only from the side body if it’s on its own.
If you’re color averse, that’s one thing.
If you aren’t color averse, the only time it “may” be an issue is if your intended is comparing her soon-to-be ring to others’ diamonds. Most people don’t just take off their rings and hold them against others, though, as it’s tacky (unless they’re PSers because we’re just nerds and like comparing and admiring it all).
But only your intended can say if it’s an issue. Rap song lyrics are always talking about DEF VVS or whatever but it honestly doesn’t mean much in practicality. Most of us antique lovers wear much warmer stones.
Remember that noticing color difference does not imply having a problem with the color difference. “I can tell the difference between a H and a K when it’s standalone” is very different from “I am bothered by the difference between a H and a K”.
It’s actually my ideal range. J-K is perfect because it’s the tiniest bit of warmth that’s barely visible unless you’re really paying attention or you place it immediately adjacent to whiter stones as a contrast. Antiques’ blockier facets always face up whiter than modern brilliant facets, so you’ll notice the color pretty much only from the side body if it’s on its own.
If you’re color averse, that’s one thing.
If you aren’t color averse, the only time it “may” be an issue is if your intended is comparing her soon-to-be ring to others’ diamonds. Most people don’t just take off their rings and hold them against others, though, as it’s tacky (unless they’re PSers because we’re just nerds and like comparing and admiring it all).
But only your intended can say if it’s an issue. Rap song lyrics are always talking about DEF VVS or whatever but it honestly doesn’t mean much in practicality. Most of us antique lovers wear much warmer stones.
Remember that noticing color difference does not imply having a problem with the color difference. “I can tell the difference between a H and a K when it’s standalone” is very different from “I am bothered by the difference between a H and a K”.
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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For the lab route I would contact AlexPark
He's posted before that antique step cuts are his favorite.
Sold, but he can get more
This is his EGD page
www.instagram.com
His prices are competitive and I believe he'd source for you.
He's posted before that antique step cuts are his favorite.
Sold, but he can get more
This is his EGD page
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His prices are competitive and I believe he'd source for you.
Thank you for all this additional perspective on color and sharing the tips on your lighting in the previous post. This is greatly appreciated and helpful to have before seeing the diamond today!
As an update, I got introduced to another jeweler who is trying to find some additional options for me. First one he immediately found was this 5.41 carat, I color, VS2. Still image below and some short videos here (link) and GIA report (link). Compared to others I've come across so far, I was surprised find out this one is within budget (basically same price as Diamonds 2 and 3 in original post). My primary issue with this one - and this is strictly out of personal preference - is that I wish the open culet was shorter. There also appears to be some visible inclusions (see bottom left of diamond in first video) when under higher magnification - not crazy about where they are located. I also think this one may start to be approaching a pretty overwhelming size once mounted given she is only a size 5 ring. In a perfect world, I'd love to find something like this that's maybe ~0.5 carat lower with a shorter open culet and less obvious inclusions, but I still think this one is worth considering.
Welcome any thoughts on this one based on photos and videos. This community has been so incredibly helpful as I have been going through this learning process with antique step cuts!
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Oo that’s very pretty. If you don’t like that inclusion, it’ll always bother you though. The location and type is very apparent; a “once you see, you can’t unsee” even if from a distance.
If you are okay with the inclusion,
I’d want to just make sure the cut quality is decent. In these photos/videos, the majority of the diamond is dark. I suspect it’s just reflecting the camera or phone of the person filming it based on the location of lighting behind from above/behind them vs. in front, but I’m not 100% positive.
If you are okay with the inclusion,
I’d want to just make sure the cut quality is decent. In these photos/videos, the majority of the diamond is dark. I suspect it’s just reflecting the camera or phone of the person filming it based on the location of lighting behind from above/behind them vs. in front, but I’m not 100% positive.
lulu_ma
Ideal_Rock
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Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thank you for all this additional perspective on color and sharing the tips on your lighting in the previous post. This is greatly appreciated and helpful to have before seeing the diamond today!
As an update, I got introduced to another jeweler who is trying to find some additional options for me. First one he immediately found was this 5.41 carat, I color, VS2. Still image below and some short videos here (link) and GIA report (link). Compared to others I've come across so far, I was surprised find out this one is within budget (basically same price as Diamonds 2 and 3 in original post). My primary issue with this one - and this is strictly out of personal preference - is that I wish the open culet was shorter. There also appears to be some visible inclusions (see bottom left of diamond in first video) when under higher magnification - not crazy about where they are located. I also think this one may start to be approaching a pretty overwhelming size once mounted given she is only a size 5 ring. In a perfect world, I'd love to find something like this that's maybe ~0.5 carat lower with a shorter open culet and less obvious inclusions, but I still think this one is worth considering.
Welcome any thoughts on this one based on photos and videos. This community has been so incredibly helpful as I have been going through this learning process with antique step cuts!
I looooove this
The new 5.41 find is growing on me - I am looking forward to seeing any other options that jeweler comes up with on Monday/Tuesday.
Update on the 4.46 K IF diamond (this is diamond 4 in original post). Saw it yesterday. Immediate reactions to it were: i) stunning clarity and beautiful facets, ii) could see some "hints" of warmer color under certain lighting conditions but at other times looked totally white face up, and iii) this is the one negative, it seems to look a bit "small" for its carat weight at first impression.
Each of these links include a few video clips I took stitched together under different lighting conditions inside:
Welcome any thoughts on the 4.46 diamond! Here are a few still photos of it as well:
Update on the 4.46 K IF diamond (this is diamond 4 in original post). Saw it yesterday. Immediate reactions to it were: i) stunning clarity and beautiful facets, ii) could see some "hints" of warmer color under certain lighting conditions but at other times looked totally white face up, and iii) this is the one negative, it seems to look a bit "small" for its carat weight at first impression.
Each of these links include a few video clips I took stitched together under different lighting conditions inside:
- Video 1: inside with hand between diamond and window (link)
- Video 2: inside with some natural light exposure standing near window (link)
- Video 3: inside at table under normal office lighting (link)
- Weight: 4.46 carat
- Color: K
- Clarity: IF
- Fluorescence: Medium blue
- Length x width x height: 9.85 x 8.51 x 6.45
- Depth: 75.8%
- Table: 47%
- Note: depth seems a bit high and table seems a bit low compared to other diamonds of this period and cut/shape style I have been looking at
- Girdle: thin to slightly think
- Culet: small
- Polish and symmetry: very good and very good
Welcome any thoughts on the 4.46 diamond! Here are a few still photos of it as well:
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Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
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The K is gorgeous and a true antique, if that matters to you.
The D is too shallow. You can see problem area in the pic you posted. See that darkness, it’s likely leakage.
Thanks! Just to clarify, all the still image photos in my last post are actually of the 4.46 K diamond (not the 4.81 ring that's in the one side by side video for size comparison).
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