Calling NewEnglandLady...or any other independent women (who got/are getting married)

[dockman3]

Date: 7/20/2008 12:32:26 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 7/20/2008 9:54:44 AM
Author: dockman3

Date: 7/18/2008 6:05:31 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
Dockman~

May I ask how old you and your GF are? I was only 22 when I married my XH. I was very doubtful that I was doing the right thing, but I just chalked that up to ''cold feet'' and did it anyway. I thought I was ready, but I wasn''t. Does she have friends/family members who are divorced? Maybe that''s what''s scaring her?

Now that I''m remarried, I think my faith in marriage has been pretty much restored . . . I married the right guy this time! But, when DH asked me to marry him, I did have some reservations (as I did when I got engaged to my XH). I think I''m like your GF in that I''m very independent and I don''t want to be known solely as someone''s wife ~ I like having my own identity. And I think you''re like my DH, in that you''re the one who is bringing up the topic of marriage, when traditionally (stereotypically?) it''s usually the woman in that role.

I think a lot of guys don''t realize how much of an adjustment it is for a woman when she gets married. Even if you''ve lived together before the engagement/marriage (as I did with both my XH and DH), things are different. And it''s not just her name that''s (possibly) going to change. When she says ''yes'' to you and puts that (gorgeous, BTW) ring on her finger, she is making a huge commitment. And she''s making an even bigger commitment when she marries you. I think it''s wise that you''re waiting until you think she''s ready before doing the proposal. Now that you have the ring, you can just hang onto it, knowing it will be there whenever the right moment comes along.

About the name change issue: Has she considered dropping her middle name, keeping her maiden name as her middle name, and taking your last name? That''s what I did. To illustrate this a little better, my initials used to be EAW, but they''re now EWR.

Just my thoughts on this issue . . . hope I made sense!

Emm-

Thanks so much for you comments!! We are both 26 right now, but the way it stands, we won''t actually be married until we''re 28. She really doesn''t have any friends or relatives that have been divoriced, and neither do I. Certainly we both know people who''s parents have gotten divorced, but they are in the minority by a long shot.

Its true that I am the one bringing it up, which does makes this slightly different from a more traditional relationship. That''s why there is a LIW forum here and not a GIW (Gentlemen in Waiting)! I guess I didn''t have much of an appreciation for the changes that a woman goes through. I never really had anybody else to talk to on this since all of my friends that did get married who I have talked to about this have just said that it wasn''t a big deal and they all REALLY wanted to get married and had no seconds thoughts at all and couldn''t wait to take their guy''s name. I even had one friend who, no joke, sent out an email the day after she was married with her new name and a new email address to fit!

In the end, I think I''m coming to the conculsion that I just have to wait for her and there''s really not much I can say or do to get her to move up her timetable, other than just be there for her and keep being supportive and keep loving her like I do!

Thanks so much for your insight here. I really appreciate it as I haven''t been able to get it my friends IRL. Its so wonderful to hear about your current DH and restored faith in marriage. I hope you continue to be this happy for the rest of your life. Thanks again!

Dockman, thank you! That was very sweet, and it was nice to hear that today especially, because tomorrow is our third anniversary!

It sounds like you''re getting a lot of good advice here, and it''s great to see that you''re taking it to heart. I''m glad you found PS, and that we''ve been able to help! I know it must be hard to wait, now that you have the ring, and you''re excited about getting engaged. But I think your plan to wait until she''s ready is a good one. Good luck to you, and let us know how things are going!

ETA: I think Katamari made some VERY good points in her post above. Talking to your GF is never a bad thing . . . talking about the issue is the first step toward resolving it. If you had been thinking about proposing at a specific time, maybe let her in on that fact and see how she reacts? Maybe she would be OK with getting engaged now, as long as your engagement would be a long one. Many couples have very long engagements for various reasons, and there''s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Stress to her that you don''t even have to set a date right away . . . just BE engaged for a while before you even discuss a wedding date. Again, good luck, and keep us posted!

Emm-

Congratulations on 3 years! That''s wonderful. I''m gald I found this place too. Searching for the ring I realized that there''s just something about diamonds that drew me to them. But this has also been a great place for advice when I''ve tapped out all of my other resources. Especially when I''m trying to figure out what''s going on inside her head.

Kat made some excellent points and I will definitely keep them in mind. And don''t worry, I''ll keep everyone posted as to how things are going and once I finally get engaged, you can bet there will be plenty of hand pics to go along with the others!

 

[dockman3]

Date: 7/20/2008 12:35:59 PM
Author: allycat0303
Well I was deathly afraid of getting married, and am now only moderately afraid of marriage. I think it sometimes boils down to not being ready. There was nothing my fiance could have done to make me change my mind.

I think I was mostly afraid of him holding me back from the things I wanted to do. I wanted to (and still do) want to be able to choose my career path without a man telling me, or complaining, or even having a say in (to be honest) in what I do. I never wanted to take his needs and wants into consideration when it came to my ambitions. What really helped was when I talked to him about what I wanted to do in residency, and he never once tried to influance my decision, or say ''well what about our house, my job etc.'' it was always ''You have to do what you love'' and it turned out that I spent more time thinking ''what about our house, and your job''.

So my advice is to give it time, patience, patience and then more patience. If you now that you are spending the rest of your lives together, a year or two shouldn''t make so much of a difference.

Allycat,

Thanks for the advice! I have tried to do exactly what your FI has done and I can be very patient. I''ll keep at it though. It sounds like that is the consensus and you''re right, as long as we''re together, it doesn''t really matter if we''re married or not. A year or two won''t kill me.

PS- We have the same b-day, 03/03!

 

[dockman3]

Date: 7/20/2008 12:53:29 PM
Author: Selkie
Wow-except for the ages (we were 35 and 42 when we got married), you could be describing me and my now-DH about 3 years ago. We''d been together for 4.5 years, we both knew that we were with the best partner we''d ever find, and I couldn''t imagine leaving him. HOWEVER-I was scared to death, to the point of anxiety attacks and going to individual counseling, of getting married. To anyone. Period. He had brought up marriage and looking for rings about a year into the relationship, but I wasn''t ready at all, and ended up telling him so. Thing was, it wasn''t a deal breaker. He was patient and understanding as he always is, and knew that this didn''t mean I didn''t love him. Gradually, I began to think more about the actual mechanics of getting married-looking at rings, making guest lists, thinking about where to do it, that kind of thing-I realized that was my way of coming to terms with the actual emotional transition of marriage. When he finally did propose for real, on our fifth anniversary, I have to admit I still was a bit scared, but my happiness outweighed the fear, and I was ready to begin planning.

You sound very much like DH-considerate, loving, and patient. All the most critical qualities for successful marriage for both partners. I''m sure she recognizes that as well. I sympathize greatly with both of you. I know how tough it is to be getting the mixed signals, but just think about how tough it is for her to change a mindset she, like I, has had since a very young age. There are two books, the Conscious Bride, and Emotionally Engaged, that helped me a lot. You might even consider reading them, since they''ll give you some additional perspective into the changes involved here. Good luck, you''re a keeper.

Selkie-

Thanks for the response! It sounds like you two made it through just fine, which is wonderful to hear! I didn''t start seriously talking about rings and getting married until this past Feb. I spent the next three or four months looking for rings and just happened to find the perfect one, so I bought it! I wasn''t planning on getting it that soon, but I figured nothing else could happen if I didn''t have that, so why not just get it?

I''ll definitely have to check out these two books. Maybe they will help, and I think you''re the third person to suggest Emotionally Engaged. Thanks so much for your kind words. They mean a lot to me. As for the proposal, I really did want to make it a surprise and even a hint at it would let her know exactly what I''m planning. I''ll think about it though. Thanks again for the advice. I really appreciate it!

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 7/18/2008 2:52:19 PM
Author: dockman3

I''m very understanding of her not wanting to be known simply as Mrs. Dockman. I have no problem with that what so ever, and as I stated earlier, her independence is one of the things that drew me to her. I have known of her feelings on this for some time now and if I had a major issue with it, I would left a long time ago and not stayed with her! The problem is with the rest of the world, who she fears will only see her as Mrs. Dockman. I don''t know what to tell her to calm her fears that to the rest of the world she won''t be just Mrs. Dockman.

If I were going to speak to her, this is what I''d tell her:

1. Don''t frame your decisions based on ''what the rest of the world'' will think. People will ALWAYS make assumptions based on their own limited frames of reference and *their* preconceived notions of what they think marriage is/should be, etc. You won''t be able to change that; it is what it is.

2. Letting others judgments or opinions become a barrier to choosing something you''d otherwise want is actually ceding your independence in another way. Independence isn''t about worrying what other people think and letting that concern impact your decisions; true independence is about recognizing that the only person who can decide what''s right/best for you is you and feeling confident enough to let your instinct guide your choices without regard for others'' approval/acceptance.

3. Don''t worry about what the rest of the world thinks; worry about what your potential spouse thinks. That''s the only other person whose opinion matters about what marriage should be/mean. As long as you and s/he are in alignment, that''s all that really matters.

4. Independence doesn''t mean never compromising; people make compromises every day in relationships with friends, family, spouses, coworkers, etc.

I met my husband later in life. I had forged really solid friendships by then, and I was clear that I wanted to maintain those friendships, too. We take some vacations together; others we take separately. I spend time with my friends, he spends time with his. We also spend joint time with friends on both sides together. We know what works for us.

That doesn''t stop casual acquaintenance (co-workers, etc.) from commentary. Hubby and I work at the same place; I was at work on Monday and he had another day off. A co-worker saw me and said "oh, I thought you were both on vacation." I said, "you thought right - we were." He replied, ''well then where''s Rich today?'' I smiled and said ''he''s still on vacation.....and we are not attached at the hip."

Stuff like that happens. Can''t change it, but I certainly wouldn''t let it keep me from enjoying my married relationship over worrying what others will think.

 

[Allison D.]

Oh, and something I forgot to mention.....

Tell her that you fully expect her to continue being independent after marriage; that you still foresee splitting the housework and having individual hobbies, etc. You may think it goes without saying, but nothing really does go without saying. She may be thinking that your expectations post-marriage will be different from what they are now.

Reassure her that your vision of marriage closely mirrors the pattern of your lives now.

My husband and I had detailed discussions about the things that were important to each of us going into a marriage and making sure each knew exactly what they were getting. He expressed how important his alone time is to him and how his hobbies are important to him. He also expressed how important it was to him to make time for joint activities, too. Similarly, I expressed how important my relationships with my girlfriends were and how we needed to be able to do things individually as well as together. I, too, expressed a desire to carve out time for joint activities too. We were both willing to make the adjustments required to give enough time to the relationship while allowing enough individual time as well.

We talked about how household responsibilities would be divided/handled, etc. and that our roles were that of partners, not provider/providee.

Marriage is about communication, so the more you can communicate and realize your wants are in alignment together, the more confident you'll both be in choosing to move forward.

 

[sevens one]

1. Don''t frame your decisions based on ''what the rest of the world'' will think. People will ALWAYS make assumptions based on their own limited frames of reference and *their* preconceived notions of what they think marriage is/should be, etc. You won''t be able to change that; it is what it is.

Wow Alj! You hit the nail on the head here. It''s deep and it''s real.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 7/20/2008 12:13:05 PM
Author: katamari
She lives in a society where, regardless of whether a couple makes the decision based on gender roles or economics, women largely end up being the ones who stay at home with children because they a) are expected to or b) earn less due to gender inequality or c) have more flexible schedules (which, I know in your case is not going to be the issue, but I am talking in the general here). Or, to belabor the name issue, she lives in a world where women have to choose whether or not to take man's names and explain why they did or didn't to people while the man never has to explain why he didn't consider her name. Plus, as IndyGal mentions, women do statistically do more housework and childrearing in heterosexual relationships post marriage regardless of their previous arrangements.

I am not yet married [wedding is in 2009], and in a same sex relationship, so we don't face nearly as much pressure to confirm to traditional gender roles in marriage as most heterosexual couples do. People we know who might care about that sort of thing are way more hung up about us getting married than about who will do what.

I just want to WORD [seriously!] the advice given by katamari above. As a Gender Studies major I learn about gender roles, expectations, and the institution of gender as nauseum. It's totally true that statistically, even heterosexual couples who prior to marriage had non-traditional division of labor equity fall into gendered patterns of behavior post-marriage. It sounds really weird, but it is true. From your description, it sounds like your girlfriend is far more worried about the institution of gender and gender expectations than she is about the institution of marriage. That is good news for you!

While you can't do much to change how other people might react to a non-traditional choice like not changing her name to yours, you can very much change your reaction to it and stand by her if people make comments [even jokingly, which may happen and be awkward or even hurtful to her] about her choices or independence. It sounds like you are committed to doing this, which is an awesome first step. You also seem very aware of the way that your exposure to other relationships, such as your parents' more traditional relationship, might have affected the way you view things like name-changes. Recognizing that is also important. The advice I would give you is that if she is ready to talk about this, which she might not yet be but will eventually be, you have an in-depth conversation with her about each of your expectations, explain to her how your previous experiences have affected your view of things and that you are adjusting to the reality of your personal situation with her. Honestly, there are TONS of times in your hopefully long marriage to her that you will have opportunities to compromise, and you might want to remind both yourself and her that this is not an area where she is willing to meet you halfway. Hopefully you can come up with some other areas that she may be willing to compromise in so it seems more equal to you and you are not the one making all of the sacrifices, so to speak. I think your articulating very clearly that you really do understand and respect at this point her decision to keep her name after you are married. That might diffuse any residual tension about the issue she might have and make her feel more comfortable if she ultimately does decide not to change. She could always change her mind, but neither you nor she know that as this point.

I would also talk about your willingness to consciously try throughout your marriage to continue gender equity and that your expectations will not change after marriage. You said that you are already living together and have been for some time, so make sure she is comfortable with how the situation currently is, and tell her what it seems to me like you are saying here: you don't want it to change either, you are just looking to take your relationship to the next level and make it official. Knowing that there is an existing pattern of falling into traditional gender roles after marriage even if you have been living together for some time before it and sharing equally might make her feel more comfortable. Be conscious of your decisions and expectations and that might do the trick.

Sorry to write a novel here; I obviously feel strongly about the issue, and as I said, I have a lot of experience learning and talking about it. However, keep in mind that I have not personally dealt with it, and I apologize if I misinterpreted anything or am off-base in my suggestions. Good luck. You definitely have the right idea in how to approach things, and that is VERY commendable in my book.

ETA: I obviously have said things that others before me have said- sorry about that, I only read to page 3!

 

[dockman3]

Date: 7/20/2008 4:47:58 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 7/18/2008 2:52:19 PM

Author: dockman3


I''m very understanding of her not wanting to be known simply as Mrs. Dockman. I have no problem with that what so ever, and as I stated earlier, her independence is one of the things that drew me to her. I have known of her feelings on this for some time now and if I had a major issue with it, I would left a long time ago and not stayed with her! The problem is with the rest of the world, who she fears will only see her as Mrs. Dockman. I don''t know what to tell her to calm her fears that to the rest of the world she won''t be just Mrs. Dockman.

If I were going to speak to her, this is what I''d tell her:


1. Don''t frame your decisions based on ''what the rest of the world'' will think. People will ALWAYS make assumptions based on their own limited frames of reference and *their* preconceived notions of what they think marriage is/should be, etc. You won''t be able to change that; it is what it is.


2. Letting others judgments or opinions become a barrier to choosing something you''d otherwise want is actually ceding your independence in another way. Independence isn''t about worrying what other people think and letting that concern impact your decisions; true independence is about recognizing that the only person who can decide what''s right/best for you is you and feeling confident enough to let your instinct guide your choices without regard for others'' approval/acceptance.


3. Don''t worry about what the rest of the world thinks; worry about what your potential spouse thinks. That''s the only other person whose opinion matters about what marriage should be/mean. As long as you and s/he are in alignment, that''s all that really matters.


4. Independence doesn''t mean never compromising; people make compromises every day in relationships with friends, family, spouses, coworkers, etc.


I met my husband later in life. I had forged really solid friendships by then, and I was clear that I wanted to maintain those friendships, too. We take some vacations together; others we take separately. I spend time with my friends, he spends time with his. We also spend joint time with friends on both sides together. We know what works for us.


That doesn''t stop casual acquaintenance (co-workers, etc.) from commentary. Hubby and I work at the same place; I was at work on Monday and he had another day off. A co-worker saw me and said ''oh, I thought you were both on vacation.'' I said, ''you thought right - we were.'' He replied, ''well then where''s Rich today?'' I smiled and said ''he''s still on vacation.....and we are not attached at the hip.''


Stuff like that happens. Can''t change it, but I certainly wouldn''t let it keep me from enjoying my married relationship over worrying what others will think.

Alj-

Thanks a lot for the advice! I really appreciate it. If I can sum it up in a few words, it boils down to not caring what the rest of the world thinks because there will always be people who will make comments. That makes a lot of sense. I just need to get that through to her. The idea that if she does care about it then she is giving up her independence is a good idea. That might work.

The next time we talk about this, I''ll be sure to expressly say everything that''s on my mind and try not to leave anything as an assumption. It sounds like that could get me into trouble. Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it!

 

[dockman3]

Date: 7/20/2008 10:39:41 PM
Author: WishfulThinking

Date: 7/20/2008 12:13:05 PM

Author: katamari

She lives in a society where, regardless of whether a couple makes the decision based on gender roles or economics, women largely end up being the ones who stay at home with children because they a) are expected to or b) earn less due to gender inequality or c) have more flexible schedules (which, I know in your case is not going to be the issue, but I am talking in the general here). Or, to belabor the name issue, she lives in a world where women have to choose whether or not to take man''s names and explain why they did or didn''t to people while the man never has to explain why he didn''t consider her name. Plus, as IndyGal mentions, women do statistically do more housework and childrearing in heterosexual relationships post marriage regardless of their previous arrangements.

I am not yet married [wedding is in 2009], and in a same sex relationship, so we don''t face nearly as much pressure to confirm to traditional gender roles in marriage as most heterosexual couples do. People we know who might care about that sort of thing are way more hung up about us getting married than about who will do what.


I just want to WORD [seriously!] the advice given by katamari above. As a Gender Studies major I learn about gender roles, expectations, and the institution of gender as nauseum. It''s totally true that statistically, even heterosexual couples who prior to marriage had non-traditional division of labor equity fall into gendered patterns of behavior post-marriage. It sounds really weird, but it is true. From your description, it sounds like your girlfriend is far more worried about the institution of gender and gender expectations than she is about the institution of marriage. That is good news for you!


While you can''t do much to change how other people might react to a non-traditional choice like not changing her name to yours, you can very much change your reaction to it and stand by her if people make comments [even jokingly, which may happen and be awkward or even hurtful to her] about her choices or independence. It sounds like you are committed to doing this, which is an awesome first step. You also seem very aware of the way that your exposure to other relationships, such as your parents'' more traditional relationship, might have affected the way you view things like name-changes. Recognizing that is also important. The advice I would give you is that if she is ready to talk about this, which she might not yet be but will eventually be, you have an in-depth conversation with her about each of your expectations, explain to her how your previous experiences have affected your view of things and that you are adjusting to the reality of your personal situation with her. Honestly, there are TONS of times in your hopefully long marriage to her that you will have opportunities to compromise, and you might want to remind both yourself and her that this is not an area where she is willing to meet you halfway. Hopefully you can come up with some other areas that she may be willing to compromise in so it seems more equal to you and you are not the one making all of the sacrifices, so to speak. I think your articulating very clearly that you really do understand and respect at this point her decision to keep her name after you are married. That might diffuse any residual tension about the issue she might have and make her feel more comfortable if she ultimately does decide not to change. She could always change her mind, but neither you nor she know that as this point.


I would also talk about your willingness to consciously try throughout your marriage to continue gender equity and that your expectations will not change after marriage. You said that you are already living together and have been for some time, so make sure she is comfortable with how the situation currently is, and tell her what it seems to me like you are saying here: you don''t want it to change either, you are just looking to take your relationship to the next level and make it official. Knowing that there is an existing pattern of falling into traditional gender roles after marriage even if you have been living together for some time before it and sharing equally might make her feel more comfortable. Be conscious of your decisions and expectations and that might do the trick.


Sorry to write a novel here; I obviously feel strongly about the issue, and as I said, I have a lot of experience learning and talking about it. However, keep in mind that I have not personally dealt with it, and I apologize if I misinterpreted anything or am off-base in my suggestions. Good luck. You definitely have the right idea in how to approach things, and that is VERY commendable in my book.


ETA: I obviously have said things that others before me have said- sorry about that, I only read to page 3!

Wishful-

Thank you soo much for taking the time to respond to me like that! (And don''t worry about reading it all, some of the posts and replies are pretty long!) I really appreciate someone who is actually studying this taking the time to give me advice.

All of your advice is right on. She just might be more worried about the gender roles and expectations more than the actual institution of marriage. I hadn''t really considered that. We will have plenty of opportunities to compromise later in life, so you''re right, we need to be looking towards the future and making sure we are on the same page there and not get hung up here. When we talk, I''ll try to be as open as possible with her and let her know my expectations and hopefully she''ll be just as open with me about her expectations so we don''t have any miss-communications. Thanks again for the advice. I really appreciate it!

 

[dockman3]

I just wanted to take this time to thank everyone who gave me some input here. You have no idea how helpful it is to hear all of this great advice. Thank you again!

While I am still open to any advice that people way want to offer, I also think I have plenty to think about and contemplate now. The next conversation I have with her about this will be very open and I will clearly state all of my expectations and hopefully hear hers. I will totally back off on the name thing, as I know many of you think I should, and you are probably right. But I will make my feelings known on the whole idea and we''ll have a good talk about it and how she feels about it. I think I''m in a much better place now and have a much greater appreciation for what she is thinking and how she is viewing things.

Thanks again to everybody! PS is a wonderful place and I''m so glad I found it! If any of you gals ever need a guys opinion on anything, feel free to ask!

 

[anchor31]

Date: 7/18/2008 8:54:54 PM
Author: Galateia


Whoops, looks like the bolded part got cut somehow when I posted. Not that it makes any huge difference, aside from the fact that many couples up there can and do use it as another step towards marriage. I wonder if it eases the LIWitis of any Canadian girls, knowing that when people ask about their status, they can identify as common-law and don''t need to be embarrassed by being ''only a girlfriend''. Hm. Well, tangent over.

Can I ask what your own motivation is to get married? I mean, presumably beyond the tax breaks and insurance that you mentioned to your girlfriend, I''m assuming that isn''t your primary reason.

I''m impressed that your girlfriend has managed to carve out her own life after being transplanted kit and caboodle into yours. I had forgotten she also essentially migrated for your sake.

Putting myself in her shoes (since as you pointed out, she and I seem to wear similar shoes, so I''m going to take a stab at it) I might feel that a proposal of marriage on top of the transplant, on top of the issues with your mother, and on top of not being firmly established in my own career and thus having a solid, independent self-image; well, it would be just more than I could bear. (I get wonky when we get congrats cards from his mother''s church buddies. I''m serious. I threw the last one across the room and shrieked something incoherent about putting the cart before the horse.)

You may need to dig in and prep for a few years'' wait.

Disclaimer: I have written this post during intervals in dinner-making, so it might be a bit disjointed.

[slight threadjack] Galateia - I just wanted to point out that in Qc, common-law doesn''t apply. MANY Qc-ers think it does, and we still have the highest age average for first time brides and grooms, but legally you can live with someone your entirely life over her and NEVER be common-law spouses. [/slight threadjack]

Dockman - You sound like a great guy and I think it''s great that you''re taking the time to ask for advice here and listening to it. I''m a more traditional woman, but I thought I''d throw in my 2 cents on the name thing... In my province, women not only don''t change their names when they marry, but they legally CAN''T do it. Children have hyphenized names (like me), or they have just the dad''s name; I''ve even seen a few with their mom''s name. So don''t sweat it. It might not be what you''re used to, but it''s done, and it''s not weird.

Good luck!

 

[dockman3]

Date: 7/21/2008 10:19:26 AM
Author: anchor31

Date: 7/18/2008 8:54:54 PM

Author: Galateia



Whoops, looks like the bolded part got cut somehow when I posted. Not that it makes any huge difference, aside from the fact that many couples up there can and do use it as another step towards marriage. I wonder if it eases the LIWitis of any Canadian girls, knowing that when people ask about their status, they can identify as common-law and don''t need to be embarrassed by being ''only a girlfriend''. Hm. Well, tangent over.


Can I ask what your own motivation is to get married? I mean, presumably beyond the tax breaks and insurance that you mentioned to your girlfriend, I''m assuming that isn''t your primary reason.

I''m impressed that your girlfriend has managed to carve out her own life after being transplanted kit and caboodle into yours. I had forgotten she also essentially migrated for your sake.


Putting myself in her shoes (since as you pointed out, she and I seem to wear similar shoes, so I''m going to take a stab at it) I might feel that a proposal of marriage on top of the transplant, on top of the issues with your mother, and on top of not being firmly established in my own career and thus having a solid, independent self-image; well, it would be just more than I could bear. (I get wonky when we get congrats cards from his mother''s church buddies. I''m serious. I threw the last one across the room and shrieked something incoherent about putting the cart before the horse.)


You may need to dig in and prep for a few years'' wait.


Disclaimer: I have written this post during intervals in dinner-making, so it might be a bit disjointed.

[slight threadjack] Galateia - I just wanted to point out that in Qc, common-law doesn''t apply. MANY Qc-ers think it does, and we still have the highest age average for first time brides and grooms, but legally you can live with someone your entirely life over her and NEVER be common-law spouses. [/slight threadjack]


Dockman - You sound like a great guy and I think it''s great that you''re taking the time to ask for advice here and listening to it. I''m a more traditional woman, but I thought I''d throw in my 2 cents on the name thing... In my province, women not only don''t change their names when they marry, but they legally CAN''T do it. Children have hyphenized names (like me), or they have just the dad''s name; I''ve even seen a few with their mom''s name. So don''t sweat it. It might not be what you''re used to, but it''s done, and it''s not weird.

Good luck!

Anchor,

Thanks for the kinds words. I''ll figure the name stuff out. Its not going to be a huge deal for me one way or the other. We just have to sit down and talk about it. I guess I just don''t know many people who haven''t changed their name and changing the name is the norm here. That''s the only thing I was worried about, but it sounds like overall, its not a big deal, so I''m trying not to worry about it so much. Thanks again!

 

[anchor31]

No problem! Did I ever tell you that the ring is DIVINE?!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 7/21/2008 1:11:55 PM
Author: anchor31
No problem! Did I ever tell you that the ring is DIVINE?!

Agreed--when D and I were walking by Long''s on Saturday this setting was in the window and I said "Ooo! It''s Dockman''s ring!!!"...D had no idea what I was talking about. I love how it looks like all the stones are floating.

 

[dockman3]

Anchor-

Thanks so much for the wonderful words!!

NEL-

Thank you very much! That is so flattering that you recognized my ring just walking around! One of the reasons I bought it was that I thought they were floating, and I''m just hoping that she loves it too!

 

[WishfulThinking]

dockman- Again, I just want to say good luck! I also want to chime in that your future FI''s ring is beautiful. How in the world will you ever be able to give it up when you propose?

 

[dockman3]

Date: 7/21/2008 6:23:34 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
dockman- Again, I just want to say good luck! I also want to chime in that your future FI''s ring is beautiful. How in the world will you ever be able to give it up when you propose?

Wishful-

That''s an easy one! I''m going to keep the girl who''s got it on her ringer around for a while so I''ll get to see it everyday, which is more than I see it now!