Calling Talented Photographers

[minousbijoux]

So my latest thing is to try and see if I can replicate what the ebay sellers are doing in terms of ramping up color - I figure if I can figure out how they do it, then I can undo it when I am looking at their stones to get a realistic look at the saturation and tone.

I know it probably doesn't work that way or is that straightforward, but I decided to take their photos, save them, and then play around with the saturation, contrast and lightness/darkness levels to see if I could come up with something halfway plausible. It hasn't really worked so far Anybody want to try? I know this seller is reputable, but amps up the color...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Flawless-Mandarin-Orange-Spessartite-Namiba-6-50ct-Rare-/160832551375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25725df9cf#ht_2088wt_1311

(and no, I'm not seriously interested in this stone, as I see a brown modifier)

TIA and Happy 4th!

 

[kenny]

I don't think you have to be a talented photographer to answer the question.

It is done with software, often Photoshop, but there are many other more affordable software that can do it.

I have an iMac that comes with photography software called iPhoto.
It is all I use.
Here are screen captures of how I'd use it to change the amount of color, which iPhoto calls Saturation.
Perhaps someone with a PC or Photoshop or other software can post screen captures of how they do it.

Here I lowered the saturation, notice the slider bar is to the left.



Here is the original.
Notice the slider button for Saturation is in the middle.



Here I raised the saturation.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I know it probably doesn't work that way or is that straightforward

You just answered your own question.

You would have to know exactly what the vendor did to manipulate the original to reverse it and honestly I don't know how you would find out. And some vendors don't JUST use digital manipulation but also lighting and environment.

 

[kenny]

Minousbijoux, what kind of software do YOU use for photos?

Also, you can never know how much a vendor increased the saturation if at all, and yes gems change their color dramatically with environment and lighting.
Plus I have two apple computers, and the color saturation of the same pic looks different on them.

BTW, I DO mess with every image I take to make it look more like I know the gem to look in real life (which itself changes with lighting and environment).
Capturing the "true" color of a gem is a challenge for even the most competent and honest photographer in the world with the finest equipment and software, who is not even selling gems.

It is not dishonest to use Photoshop (or other software) to tweak the image towards what you know to be the correct tone/hue/saturation.
Actually it can be dishonest to NOT Photoshop if the pic you took does not look true.

As a collector of Fancy Colored Diamonds here in the digital age, vendor photo ethics is a HUGE issue to me.

 

[T L]

Speaking of that seller, and not so much to the photography, I bought a mint tourmaline from them many years ago, and while it wasn't as saturated as the photo, it was still very pretty.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

BTW, I DO mess with every image I take to make it look more like I know the gem to look in real life (which itself changes with lighting and environment).
Capturing the "true" color of a gem is a challenge for even the most competent and honest photographer in the world with the finest equipment and software, who is not even selling gems.

It is not dishonest to use Photoshop (or other software) to tweak the image towards what you know to be the correct tone/hue/saturation.
Actually it can be dishonest to NOT Photoshop if the pic you took does not look true.

As a collector of Fancy Colored Diamonds here in the digital age, vendor photo ethics is a HUGE issue to me.

I completely agree Kenny! I also "tweak" every picture I take. It's only fair to the stone. However in general what I see happening on eBay is just ridiculous.

~Justin

 

[kenny]

I never shop on eBay.
Buyer beware.

 

[0-0-0]

You would have to know exactly what the vendor did to manipulate the original to reverse it and honestly I don't know how you would find out. And some vendors don't JUST use digital manipulation but also lighting and environment.

+1

 

[beau-wy]

I consider myself an un-talented but experienced photographer. I do all of my faceted stone photos in natural, mostly indirect sunlight. There is no perfect lighting for all varieties or hues, degrees of saturation, etc. Medium tone stones of moderate to strong saturation and high clarity (e.g., 10x IF) are the easiest to photograph accurately. Stones with pale saturation are very difficult to represent accurately, either washing out, or oversaturating, or picking up a hue that doesn't exist. Medium-dark tones tend to over contrast, meaning color reflections wash out and base color darkens.

In terms of clarity, macro photos almost invariably over-emphasize visibility of inclusions compared to IRL.

My very worst nemesis is spessartite, I have never taken a decent pic (and Rick M, I definitely appreciate the shared experience, misery is comforted by company). Any gem colored by chrome will be off-hue and under-saturated. Nigerian pink tourmalines are notably hard to photograph where they don't look BETTER than IRL. Opal fire is incredibly difficult to capture accurately under any type of normal light conditions, especially to get both base color and fire right.

I use Photoscape, a freeware digital imaging program, to try and bring images closer to IRL. It is not easy, and only semi-successful.

Based on my experience, the most common photo manipulations are to: 1) photograph in low light with a long exposure and a tripod; 2) lighten the photo to lighten the tone of the stone, and then 3) push the saturation to show a more intensely colored, lighter hue than IRL. I will echo kenny's statement, that it is very difficult to capture a gem's IRL appearance to the greatest degree possible w/o manipulating the picture.

In the end, it comes down to intent; are you trying to sell a gem, or a photo? IMHO, anyone charging a restocking fee is selling an unrealistic photo, and anticipates the buyer being disappointed. Other clues are glowing, bright tweezers, the process I described above will make steel tweezers look like palladium.

 

[0-0-0]

Other clues are glowing, bright tweezers, the process I described above will make steel tweezers look like palladium.

Just be aware that skilled image manipulators can alter the color of the stone without altering anything else in the picture. Natural looking objects in the picture does not guarantee that an image has not been excessively manipulated.

 

[beau-wy]

Other clues are glowing, bright tweezers, the process I described above will make steel tweezers look like palladium.

Just be aware that skilled image manipulators can alter the color of the stone without altering anything else in the picture. Natural looking objects in the picture does not guarantee that an image has not been excessively manipulated.

Very true - I don't think there is any way to discern a deceptively manipulated image w/o buying the stone

 

[T L]

I never shop on eBay.
Buyer beware.

Liebish sells on ebay too Kenny. It depends who you buy from. There are many reputable sellers.

 

[kenny]

I never shop on eBay.
Buyer beware.

Liebish sells on ebay too Kenny. It depends who you buy from. There are many reputable sellers.

Good point TL.
Sorry for painting with such a broad brush.

I keep forgetting eBay is like a telephone or a car.
Both bad and good people use them.

 

[minousbijoux]

Wow, I thought I would be lucky if I got one response! Great discussion.

Kenny, I too, use iphoto. I thought it would be easy to get a sense of what the stones really looked like by playing around with the saturation, contrast, etc. Unfortunately, this didn't work, as any thing I did in terms of adjustments did not result in anything I thought looked realistic. I hoped there might be an easy solution, but was thinking that the answer would likely be as Anon said, which is why I posted for help.

When I take pics of my stones, I, too, strive for accuracy and tweak the settings. I don't like to, because it feels like "cheating" to manipulate. But you all are right - better to adjust the settings and make it more accurate, than to leave it alone. It really blows me away that so many vendors amp up the saturation and brightness of stones.

Beau: I agree with you about lightly saturated stones - they are impossible!

 

[pregcurious]

I think the main issue any picture is, does it present the stone? Some Photoshopped images have been so distorted that they misrepresent the stone.

I think it's fine to Photoshop, but you should always state that you have. I prefer when people post both the untouched picture, and the Photoshopped picture. If don't see an untouched picture, you have no idea how much the picture has been changed on the Photoshopped version.

I also don't mind what people choose to do in this forum (in general) in terms of this, because I think of this place as "fun". A vendor's store, however, is different.

On another note, I have a Nikon Coolpix L4 and a Canon Elph SD1000, and have noticed that the Canon captures the color much better on digital macro than any other setting on the Nikon or the Canon. These are both point-and-shoots. I think reds and greens are the hardest to capture.