Can’t decide between OEC and round brilliant

[beaubeee]

Hi!

I am ering shopping and on the hunt for the perfect diamond. I was just going to go with a round brilliant, close to a carat or 6 mm spread. But then the wonderful and knowledgeable people here introduced me to Jewels by Grace and old European cuts.

I’ve seen a round brilliant in person plenty of times and one old transition cut but never the old European. I’ve asked a couple jewelers by me and they only have some mine cuts I can see. I’ve found a few YouTube videos at least.

So I need to honestly know, is it true that old Europeans are not as brilliant because of poorer cuts? Does anyone have both and can recommend one over the other? What are some shops that sell modern cut OECs besides good old gold and Victor Canera? The sparkle of the diamond is most important to me.

I plan to have a yellow or rose gold Tiffany or cathedral style setting, plain with no side stones.

Thanks!

 

[EvaEvans]

The BEST variety of ideal cut OEC you could find at GOG or AugustVintageInc. Victor Canera OEC are too swallow to be the best classical old cuts. Ivy & Rose does NOT sell ideal OEC diamonds, they just sell old cut diamonds.
Check (click) here

 

[Queenie60]

Go to Augustvintageinc. There you will find beautiful newly cut August Vintage rounds. Good luck!

 

[ericad]

I'm a smidge biased, but nothing beats an OEC in my book! I love having a diamond that's so unique that I can take one look at it and know it's my stone. Precision newly cut OEC's all look similar to each other, while antique OEC's are all unique (but might take more effort to find a great stone that you love), though either is a great choice and will be totally unique from what most other people have. Good luck with your search!

 

[foxinsox]

I think it’s not true that OECs are not as brilliant because of poorer cuts - they’re cut for different sort of light return. They’re a very different look to a MRB. Personally I love the antiques knowing they were hand cut a century or more ago. Also I love the hunt for the right one - there are genuine OECs out there which have superb light return.
Of course the precision cut ones are gorgeous, super brilliant and you can just about get them to order to suit your specs which is pretty damn appealing.

 

[rockysalamander]

I'm with @foxinsox. I don't see any lack of brilliance in well-cut antique diamonds. In fact, they return a unique and wonderfully beautiful rainbow light with big flashes. There is a charm in old cuts, even when you find a little wonkiness. Modern idealized old cuts have gorgeous precision and wonderful light return. But, it is different than a true antique. If anything gives away modern idealized cuts it is that precision and perfection.

 

[yennyfire]

I think you can find a great specimen of either type, it's a matter of what your eye prefers. Once I saw an OEC, I never looked back. The antique cut bug bit me hard. I love their broad flashes of sparkle and the pastel reflections seen in certain lighting. I love their high crowns and small tables. I truly don't care for the modern hearts and arrows round cut stones. They appear splintery to me.

So you need to decide what appeals to you and then find the best specimen of that type. In my opinion, finding a true antique with faceting you love will be harder than finding a modern H&A or modern vintage cut. However, like Erica, I am charmed by their history and find each stone's unique characteristics fascinating. I can pick my stone easily among others, which I love.

Good luck in your hunt!

 

[Matthews1127]

Team antique OEC, here!

 

[Tophat1]

I love both. For a larger diamond, I love OECs (specifically AVRs) more. To me, larger means 2.3ct+

 

[beaubeee]

I think it’s not true that OECs are not as brilliant because of poorer cuts - they’re cut for different sort of light return. They’re a very different look to a MRB. Personally I love the antiques knowing they were hand cut a century or more ago. Also I love the hunt for the right one - there are genuine OECs out there which have superb light return.
Of course the precision cut ones are gorgeous, super brilliant and you can just about get them to order to suit your specs which is pretty damn appealing.

Someone commented on another board once how OECs are a fad and why would anyone pay for a diamond with an inferior cut and it really made me bummed out because I love antiquing and mining and I wanted a diamond that looked beautiful and a little different. I do agree they have a different sparkle, my BF calls them chandeliers

 

[beaubeee]

The BEST variety of ideal cut OEC you could find at GOG or AugustVintageInc. Victor Canera OEC are too swallow to be the best classical old cuts. Ivy & Rose does NOT sell ideal OEC diamonds, they just sell old cut diamonds.
Check (click) here

I've liked my experience with GOG so far and with Ivy and Rose, but I think I'd have to see the Ivy in person to select a diamond. The videos of the august vintage online are breathtaking and they are more in my budget than Canera was.

 

[Matthews1127]

Team antique OEC, here!

To give full disclosure, I’ve inherited mine. They are dated back as far as the late 1800’s, in some cases. They're the real deal, and they are STUNNING.
I have a 3+ct L-O colored OEC on my wish list. I’d love to have a pendant or a RHR with a rock like that, some day!!!

 

[Krisking]

Hi @beaubeee , I agree these cuts are best seen in person! Here's a few comparison photos in different lighting. The six prong setting has a "superideal" H&A. The ring holder has a modern, precision-cut European round. Both are 7.4 mm and I color.

 

[foxinsox]

Someone commented on another board once how OECs are a fad and why would anyone pay for a diamond with an inferior cut and it really made me bummed out because I love antiquing and mining and I wanted a diamond that looked beautiful and a little different. I do agree they have a different sparkle, my BF calls them chandeliers

There has been a fairly long tradition of recutting OECs into MRBs and therefore assessing their value in terms of the potential MRB. So that could lead to an assumption that the OEC must be an inferior cut.
I think that person who said they were a fad doesn't really know what they're talking about although they are correct that valuing antique stones for their own intrinsic qualities instead of how they could be modernised is a recent phenomenon.

 

[jadesilver]

For me personally, I decided to skip OECs because I have to put my entire “diamond budget” into just one stone, so I picked round brilliant because OECs do not exist in my country (same for cushions, emerald cuts, no one I know has them, sorry we are so traditional!) and I know people will think it’s not a diamond, especially because of the size I want to purchase. I can deal with a fake-looking size and not care but i am not sure it would be wise to purchase something that costs like a diamond and costs a bomb but looks nothing like a diamond in terms of faceting, I think OEC facets look like a very interestingly-cut stone, but not typically diamond. So if I were making a first diamond purchase for an e-ring, I would pick a round brilliant, while for imaginary future purchases I would certainly love to have an OEC.

I am really thinking about buying a big moissanite OEC from Tianyu Gems though because gosh so pretty. https://www.reddit.com/r/jewelry/comments/6j0mfb/moissanite_from_tianyu_gems/

 

[GearGirly]

I am going to echo what others have said here but since I know it can all be overwhelming, sometimes t helps to hear it all a few times. This is a personal preference question, and you may prefer one over the other for your style. I have both as I’m sure many people here do, and I prefer the OEC by far. But for my studs I like the modern rounds much better better. When people are saying August Vintage, that is a new diamond, cut to have the broader facets of the antique stones. It’s a brand name. And those stones in my opinion are to die for. That is in fact absolutely what I would do if the idea of a stone cut over 100 years ago were not so compelling to me. So I would definitely have a look at those. Then you have the beauty of the old cut, but you know it was cut to exacting standards to maximize beauty!

 

[Victor Canera]

Hi Beaubee,

I think only you can make the decision as to you prefer an antique OEC or a modern version of one. Some people understandably love the history or provenance behind a stone that’s been in existence for a long time. Others want the characteristics of an OEC but with modern cut precision and performance. On our end, one of my goals is to have our diamonds look the same and consistent by taking out Cut from the equation in shopping for one of these stones. One thing that I’ve noted is that floral patterns are distinctive in precision cut OECs because of the symmetry of the pavilion mains especially if the planning of the stone takes into account light performance.

I definitely don’t think that OECs are a fad. If so, it’s been a really long, 100+ year one

Lastly, if you’re looking at OECs, take a look at what you love more; older OEC facet patterns or ones that are from the transitional period in OECs. They’re slightly different depending on when the OECs were cut.

Good luck and enjoy the journey, it can be really fun.

 

[Victor Canera]

Victor Canera OEC are too swallow to be the best classical old cuts.

Evaevans,

I very much respect your personal opinion.

I assume that you meant “shallow”? From our experience though, clients don’t want to lose diameter from a MRB by going into an OEC. I’ve been able to keep very similar diameters to a MRB with the CER and most have been very happy that they’re getting a very similar spread to a round brilliant diamond.

All the best,

 

[kathley]

I think it’s not true that OECs are not as brilliant because of poorer cuts - they’re cut for different sort of light return. They’re a very different look to a MRB. Personally I love the antiques knowing they were hand cut a century or more ago. Also I love the hunt for the right one - there are genuine OECs out there which have superb light return.
Of course the precision cut ones are gorgeous, super brilliant and you can just about get them to order to suit your specs which is pretty damn appealing.

+1 for everything that foxinsox posted. It took me several years of searching for the perfect antique OEC for me. I was fortunate to have found mine ("high J" color, VS1) which also has superb light return and it's aset shows this as well.

For those who don't have the time, etc. to spend what could be years searching for "the one" antique OEC, the precision-cut ones are truly gorgeous stones!

 

[foxinsox]

For me personally, I decided to skip OECs because I have to put my entire “diamond budget” into just one stone, so I picked round brilliant because OECs do not exist in my country (same for cushions, emerald cuts, no one I know has them, sorry we are so traditional!) and I know people will think it’s not a diamond, especially because of the size I want to purchase. I can deal with a fake-looking size and not care but i am not sure it would be wise to purchase something that costs like a diamond and costs a bomb but looks nothing like a diamond in terms of faceting, I think OEC facets look like a very interestingly-cut stone, but not typically diamond.

I know it's personal choice but OECs are really the original version of the brilliant cut.. so if you were being truly traditional, you'd buy an OEC over an MRB I'm nitpicking and being deliberately silly but I just wanted to comment on that point.
I think they're hugely a matter of taste - I've only seen a couple of MRBs I've liked whereas I would happily have most OECs and OMCs I've seen. I also really like asschers so I wonder if there's something about big flashes vs small flashes that my eyes just prefer.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'd look at Victor's and Jonathan's (augustvintageinc.com) if you want the best of the OEC style with ideal/excellent light performance. My avatar picture is an AVR and I love it. I do know that there are about 50+ AVRs that just came in from being graded, and several in the .75-1 ct range.

I also have an antique asscher, so I love antique stones as well. But I love excellent cut no matter how old a stone is. And the newly cut ones are lovingly handcut as well as the old ones! I have had antique furniture and fine quality reproductions. Both are beautiful, but one is more accessible in excellent cut than the other.

 

[twang07]

My one (and only) diamond is an oec and I absolutely adore it. It's pretty different looking from MRB, like really large chunky sparkles vs more "pinpoint" type flashes. When I was looking I didn't spend a lot of time but I don't really regret it (easier when you have somewhere to go to see it in person).

I think the only thing that I wish I had considered when deciding (and testing) between the two styles was considering how I felt when I looked at it straight on with my head between the light source and hand. I might not be 100% correct but I believe part of the difference between the two is what the "contrast patterns are" in these scenarios. Note, I have 0 experience with a mrb personally (perhaps you don't have this problem like I do). Since I didn't really compare that feature, I don't know if the optics are significantly better or not. However, I love what I see 95% of the time for me. Also when deciding, I liked the idea of dropping color vs mrb, so that let me "get more" for my budget, since I find that these stones face up more white than their grade. So for these reasons, along with their unique look ultimately made me go for an OEC.

When I was deciding between modern oec vs not, that was a budget decision since the AVRs I saw at the time were more expensive. Also mentally I liked the idea of having an older cut diamond anyway. I encourage you to take a look between the two, and closely look at the contrast patterns and type of sparkles you see, to help you decide. The reply by Karl_k on my thread (https://www.pricescope.com/communit...s-vs-mrbs-in-different-light-settings.235202/) helped me see it, although it was after the fact. Seeing his drawings make me think it might have taken me much longer to find one that wasn't too shallow AND had faceting patterns I liked. That being said, my head obstruction events don't really bother me because I love the patterns in the stone and the flashes are so dynamic! My stone sparkles immensely! So oecs definitely have the potential to be super stars in the spark department!

Sorry for the incredibly long post but I just recently made this decision and I don't regret it one bit! Love this stone and all its quirks. Good luck in your decision!

 

[jadesilver]

I know it's personal choice but OECs are really the original version of the brilliant cut.. so if you were being truly traditional, you'd buy an OEC over an MRB I'm nitpicking and being deliberately silly but I just wanted to comment on that point.
I think they're hugely a matter of taste - I've only seen a couple of MRBs I've liked whereas I would happily have most OECs and OMCs I've seen. I also really like asschers so I wonder if there's something about big flashes vs small flashes that my eyes just prefer.

Hi foxinsox! Diamonds (in my country) didn’t exist for us at the time when OECs were around, so I’m basing my comment on my country’s traditions. If I were to buy OECs and call that traditional, I would be following the tradition of a different race and that would be weird to people of my race who are used to what we are familiar with.

My country was still a forest with nobody living in it when round brilliants were invented. There was a lot of yellow gold and jade being purchased in the recent past, and I think diamonds for us hopped right into RBs since the average person didn’t buy diamonds until the younger Chinese (my mom’s generation maybe and then my generation) started being influenced by Western traditions and buying 0.2-0.5ct diamonds. My mother and grandmother and many other Asians still believe that plain 916 gold is the only type of jewelry that is acceptable to buy, which makes sense since its value is calculated by weight and current gold prices which have been somewhat stable compared to trying to resell diamonds.

I hope this clarifies what’s traditional for me. It’s probably a very short tradition given my country’s short history and lack of historical interest in diamonds. I thought my conclusions might be helpful to OP given that it is possible that people around her may be equally unfamiliar with OECs and thus perceive them in a certain way. I think it’s an interesting thought for us that your experience with traditional diamonds is completely different from mine, given that we are of different race, different cultural backgrounds and live in literally opposite parts of the world

 

[foxinsox]

Hi foxinsox! Diamonds (in my country) didn’t exist for us at the time when OECs were around, so I’m basing my comment on my country’s traditions. If I were to buy OECs and call that traditional, I would be following the tradition of a different race and that would be weird to people of my race who are used to what we are familiar with.

My country was still a forest with nobody living in it when round brilliants were invented. There was a lot of yellow gold and jade being purchased in the recent past, and I think diamonds for us hopped right into RBs since the average person didn’t buy diamonds until the younger Chinese (my mom’s generation maybe and then my generation) started being influenced by Western traditions and buying 0.2-0.5ct diamonds. My mother and grandmother and many other Asians still believe that plain 916 gold is the only type of jewelry that is acceptable to buy, which makes sense since its value is calculated by weight and current gold prices which have been somewhat stable compared to trying to resell diamonds.

I hope this clarifies what’s traditional for me. It’s probably a very short tradition given my country’s short history and lack of historical interest in diamonds. I thought my conclusions might be helpful to OP given that it is possible that people around her may be equally unfamiliar with OECs and thus perceive them in a certain way. I think it’s an interesting thought for us that your experience with traditional diamonds is completely different from mine, given that we are of different race, different cultural backgrounds and live in literally opposite parts of the world

That's fascinating! thank you for the reply. I've started looking at jade a bit recently - here in New Zealand where I live and grew up, the indigenous people prize jade, or pounamu (greenstone) and it's the most glorious rich green colour. I had no idea how many other beautiful lighter colours of jade there were. It's still not valued as highly here as it should be.
The European settlers brought diamonds and all their sparkly glory to New Zealand towards the end of the 19th century, about when diamonds were being cut as OECs. The majority of diamonds here are still mall-quality MRBs though - we're too small a market I think for a lot of different cuts to be popular

 

[LLJsmom]

Hi foxinsox! Diamonds (in my country) didn’t exist for us at the time when OECs were around, so I’m basing my comment on my country’s traditions. If I were to buy OECs and call that traditional, I would be following the tradition of a different race and that would be weird to people of my race who are used to what we are familiar with.

My country was still a forest with nobody living in it when round brilliants were invented. There was a lot of yellow gold and jade being purchased in the recent past, and I think diamonds for us hopped right into RBs since the average person didn’t buy diamonds until the younger Chinese (my mom’s generation maybe and then my generation) started being influenced by Western traditions and buying 0.2-0.5ct diamonds. My mother and grandmother and many other Asians still believe that plain 916 gold is the only type of jewelry that is acceptable to buy, which makes sense since its value is calculated by weight and current gold prices which have been somewhat stable compared to trying to resell diamonds.

I hope this clarifies what’s traditional for me. It’s probably a very short tradition given my country’s short history and lack of historical interest in diamonds. I thought my conclusions might be helpful to OP given that it is possible that people around her may be equally unfamiliar with OECs and thus perceive them in a certain way. I think it’s an interesting thought for us that your experience with traditional diamonds is completely different from mine, given that we are of different race, different cultural backgrounds and live in literally opposite parts of the world

If you were to look at the history of the diamond itself, rather than a particular country's experience with the stone, you could trace the entire evolution of the MRB.

To the OP, get what speaks to you and your heart. Be honest with yourself. Because in the end, your eyes are the only ones that will be looking down on your hand every day. I am sure that even if you get the more stone that you think you "should" like/get, your heart will not forget or let go of the one you really loved.

 

[soxfan]

Hi!

I am ering shopping and on the hunt for the perfect diamond. I was just going to go with a round brilliant, close to a carat or 6 mm spread. But then the wonderful and knowledgeable people here introduced me to Jewels by Grace and old European cuts.

I’ve seen a round brilliant in person plenty of times and one old transition cut but never the old European. I’ve asked a couple jewelers by me and they only have some mine cuts I can see. I’ve found a few YouTube videos at least.

So I need to honestly know, is it true that old Europeans are not as brilliant because of poorer cuts? Does anyone have both and can recommend one over the other? What are some shops that sell modern cut OECs besides good old gold and Victor Canera? The sparkle of the diamond is most important to me.

I plan to have a yellow or rose gold Tiffany or cathedral style setting, plain with no side stones.

Thanks!

Hi beau bee, I did have both. I sold my MRB to buy a .93 carat 6 mm OEC. And the stone is like a disco ball- I chose it over an august vintage round. Erica at LAD helped me in that decision, she has a great eye for stones. Since then, I have bought a 1.59 OEC pear diamond and a 2.28 OEC. My rings get a lot of attention. I like explaining that they are an old cut and have a lot of history. Very different than your average e-ring where I live.

So yes, you can get a true antique OEC that performs like the newly cut ones, you just have to search and get recommendations from the vendors. Good luck!

 

[poshmommy]

I have one of Victor's CERs and love it! It is a truly special stone. I have some modern round ACAs for earrings and love those as well...for earrings. For me I like how special the CER cut is for an engagement ring. People comment on it all the time. It's a classic shape with an interesting, beautiful cut. It's worth a trip to one of the modern european vendors to see the stones in person if you can swing it.

 

[Sagefemme]

I have a Crafted By Infinity 2.25 c in a solitaire, a 3 c antique OEC in my avatar picture, and a three stone with AVRs. So I have all three! They are different flavors of the same delicious treat. Every time I switch from one ring to another I think, THIS one is fantastic---and then I enjoy it for a few weeks or months, then switch to the next. But if I had to pick one ring to rule them all? The OEC. But it may be because it's the biggest stone in the setting I love the most. So maybe I'm not sure which I would pick if I could only have one. The CBI is amazing in a totally different way. I'm a lucky woman........

I do think if you're considering an OEC you should spend time with them in person. Most women who like jewelry know what a MRB looks like, but most have never seen an OEC. People say to me, what is it about that stone that is so different? Broad facets, pastel flashes, and drop dead beautiful in candlelight. Yum.

 

[arkieb1]

The BEST variety of ideal cut OEC you could find at GOG or AugustVintageInc. Victor Canera OEC are too swallow to be the best classical old cuts. Ivy & Rose does NOT sell ideal OEC diamonds, they just sell old cut diamonds.
Check (click) here

No clue where you get your info but August Vintage rounds and Canera OECs are pretty similar in depth. I've owned an August Vintage Cushion and while cut perfectly it was cut way shallower than an Antique Old Mine cut and many true Antique cushions, so any point or assumptions you are making about light performance are incorrect.

Ivy and Rose, Jewels by Grace, Love Affair Diamonds, Old World Diamonds do in fact sell OECS (which stands for Old European Cuts) they are mostly genuine Antique stones and not new old cuts. They are all called "OECs" both the new stones and the old stones it refers to a cut pattern nothing else. You do deserve 10 points for giving really bad inaccurate advise.

As for the original question modern round brilliants have a faster scintillation pattern, OECs have a much broader slower one. It isn't a question of one stone having more fire than the other, provided you buy a decently cut one they they just have a different cut pattern and usually one appeals more to certain people than the other.

 

[EvaEvans]

No clue where you get your info but August Vintage rounds and Canera OECs are pretty similar in depth.

I'm getting this information from my own observations. I am enough knowledgeable to make my own research based on the lab certificates. August Vintage Rounds have more variety in cutting style and their average depth is larger than Canera OEC. Canera OEC in fact has pretty the same depth as Modern Round Brilliant (62-63%).

I've owned an August Vintage Cushion and while cut perfectly it was cut way shallower than an Antique Old Mine cut and many true Antique cushions

I'm not talking about cushions at all. I was commenting only the round OEC. In fact, I do no like enough the shape of these cushions. When the ideal OEC that Jonathan and Victor supply are pretty close to the classical OEC, their cushions are not so close to the old mine stones, so not my taste.

so any point or assumptions you are making about light performance are incorrect.

Not me, but you make assumptions. I do not talk about light performance at all, I comment the shape, the visual appearance. Many cut proportions could give ideal light return, but the aesthetic beauty is something different.