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Can the human eye see the difference between G and J color?

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ripstruct8

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At what point can the human eye actually notice the faint yellow? In a "J" color diamond, is the faint yellow noticeable?
 
Date: 11/14/2009 1:15:40 PM
Author:ripstruct8
At what point can the human eye actually notice the faint yellow? In a ''J'' color diamond, is the faint yellow noticeable?
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Without a colorless stone sitting right next to it, the average consumer will notice color in J diamonds, with it being obvious at K. For some people with sensitive eyes, they can notice color in H or I''s.

--Joshua
 
I agree that most people aren''t as color sensitive as some people seem to be. I can see a slight difference between an F and a J, but it so slight to me that I don''t think twice about it. I recently purchased a lot of J''s so that I wouldn''t obsess and engage in endless comparison.

I focus on the sparkle.
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Date: 11/14/2009 1:15:40 PM
Author:ripstruct8
At what point can the human eye actually notice the faint yellow? In a 'J' color diamond, is the faint yellow noticeable?
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Apparently some in the industry have said that at I colour the average person can begin to notice a very slight hint of warmth from the side views of these diamonds, however to my eyes I and J colour are still very white diamonds from all angles, just not the crisp icy white of the colourless grades.

It is always best to view these colour grades in person however ( similar size, shape and lab graded) to see where your preferences lie, people can perceive warmth differently.
 
See for yourself! Here''s a fantastic video from Jon at GOG! It was really helpful for me. I decided after watching this that I didn''t mind the warmth of a J stone. And since having it for 4 months, I''ve confirmed that I love the subtle warmth I see on occasion. I think it adds "character!"
 
Date: 11/14/2009 1:15:40 PM
Author:ripstruct8
At what point can the human eye actually notice the faint yellow? In a ''J'' color diamond, is the faint yellow noticeable?
Click to expand...

It really depends on how sensitive you are to subtle differences in shades of color or tonal value... If you are an artist, a photographer, a commercial painter, a lighting architect, a diamond grader
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etc. then you will likely be sensitive to subtle differences in the gentle variations that occur within the transition to each color grade... There are definitely customers who I sit down with who are capable of distinguishing the difference between D-E-F-G stones with ease and they definitely see color in I-J-K color diamonds to the extent where they express a keen interest in remaining in the higher colors. However there are many, many more clients who don''t seem to be able to distinguish a distinct difference and LOVE diamonds with a little body color in them because their eyes aren''t so sensitive to color and they''re able to pick up a little more size and still get all the sparkle!

Suffice to say, people should spend a little time looking at diamonds without first knowing the paper grade of the color in order to determine what their preference, or perhaps tolerance, is for diamond color and then go diamond shopping...
 
The average person won't know the difference.
But I could easily tell that you had a J. You would see a big difference if you put a J next to a D.
But in bright light, the dazzle of the diamond's flashes hides the body colour. In medium light levels, body colour becomes quite noticeable - especially if you get the angle right.

I thought that the colour tint approximator on JamesAllen's website was among the best that I've seen on the internet:
http://www.jamesallen.com/education/color.asp
 
I can definitely see the difference between a G and a J. Face down or from the side, it''s a no brainer. Even an ideal cut from the top, I can see the difference in good lighting. Generally speaking, to me, the worse the cut, the easier it is to see the difference. However, this is all assuming a side by side comparison. If you had a J in isolation, I could probably notice the warmth if I looked at it for a bit but if I only managed a casual glance (what most people see), it would be nearly impossible to tell.
 
Expanding further.....

G colour is probably a good balance of whiteness and cost. Average jewellery stores have J/I1 or lower stones, with a few "premium" stones of I/SI2. Upper market jewellery stores have a lot of G-H/SI stones.
Personally, I stay in the D-F range unless the stone has a special cut style. For example, I'm currently eyeing a couple of FIC's, which is a fairly uncommon cut.
I can't find any D-F colour that meet my tasts, so there's a good chance that I'll be buying one of a couple that are H-J colour that I've recently seen.

If I'm setting in yellow gold, I would happily go down to almost any colour, since the yellow gold is a much deeper yellow and therefore makes the diamond look whiter.
 
I bought last year from JA a superbly well cut RB 2.01 ct. I had it custom set in platinum head and yellow gold ring. When I received it, I took it to highly recommended appraiser here in Silicon Valley, who is used to deal with the monstruous sized stones of millionnaire software people. She gave a written formal appraisal for my diamond with a grade of H color. I did an internship at Chanel in France a long time ago supervising hand embroidery, so I think I am a color sensitive person. But honestly, I cannot see the difference between H, I, J when they are well cut. I see the color difference between my J and D-E-F of course. Personnally, I would take a well cut I-J over a bad cut or average cut D-E-F anyday.
 
Date: 11/14/2009 1:27:41 PM
Author: Travel Goddess
See for yourself! Here's a fantastic video from Jon at GOG! It was really helpful for me. I decided after watching this that I didn't mind the warmth of a J stone. And since having it for 4 months, I've confirmed that I love the subtle warmth I see on occasion. I think it adds 'character!'
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Much as I respect GOG - and would bow to their vast experience - I believe that their use of very bright lighting in the video - while perhaps necessary for filming - is overloading the camera with white light and making the lower colour stones appear much less coloured than they would appear in many normal viewing environments.
I find the best colour detection to be in a room with good daylight, near to a window that doesn't face in the direction of the sun. In such a situation, even colours as high as H have a great deal (almost frightening) of visible colour, to my eyes.
Curiously, looking at a blue-fluorescent D and then looking at a non-fluor D seems to make the non-fluor D look slightly yellow tinted! But I believe that's because my eyes adjust to tone down the reception of blue light when I'm looking at the fluor stone, therefore the blue light return from a non-fluor D is temporarily suppressed, giving it the illusion of a slight yellow tint - more like a G colour.
 
For our anniversary, we recently upgraded a I/J 1.7 round to a 3 carat F radiant. Comparing the stones side by side, I noticed a very big difference in the color of the J to F. . Maybe its the cut of the radiant, but the F color flashes hot white fire, the J round is much more golden tones, but it scintillates and shoots broad rainbow beams of light. In fact, I never noticed the color in the J was until I saw it next to the F. It looked very white to me.. The two stones handle light very differently, the radiant has pin fire bursts of rainbows and the J round emits very broad flashes of color, but the F is noticeably whiter in all light conditions.
 
G_J.jpg


I definitely see it at H and I, from top or side.

That's a high G color in the ring on the left, with a high J that GOG said was almost I (original post said H, but I corrected it), on the right. FB is correct about the warmer stones looking a little washed out in this bright lighting. A J actually looks darker in real life. I have a couple of correctly graded H diamonds that look "tan" to me when viewed face down.

J
I in Platinum
J in platinum
 
Depending on several factors, I believe the most common range of slight eye-visible detection of color tint begins around I and by J most everyone can see it if they are shown the stones in correct lighting from the side view. Experts are trained to discern eye-visible color beow D and truly, some people do not care about any of this. They want a pretty stone and don''t much care about an exzact color grade.

Diamonds are so costly compared to other things that the system for grading them is extremely sensitive. This means that what you can''t see often has a definite effect on value. Making the effort to teach your eyes to appreciate the slight differences between the color grades does not force you to purchase a diamond you can''t afford, but it will help you to select carefully and to get a diamond which really will please you in the long run.
 
Hey guys,
Decided to purchase a diamond with "J" color. This is a MUCH lower color than I originally expected to purchase, but it allowed me to purchase a much larger diamond with a great cut. Thanks for all your help, and if the color is too much for her to deal with, at least I have a 30 day return policy!
 
Date: 11/14/2009 3:24:44 PM
Author: HVVS
G_J.jpg


I definitely see it at H and I, from top or side.

That''s a high G color in the ring on the left, with a high J that GOG said was almost H, on the right. FB is correct about the warmer stones looking a little washed out in this bright lighting. A J actually looks darker in real life. I have a couple of correctly graded H diamonds that look ''tan'' to me when viewed face down.

J
I in Platinum
J in platinum
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hmm, a J that jumps two color grades?
 
Sorry. I meant almost I. I also looked at an I color they had that was almost H, along with that G and J in the photo. I was thinking about whether to throw that one into the mix or not, then decided not to. I gave those three PS I & J color thread links instead. I decided that I or J in that large of a stone had too much tint. The warmer stones do tend to look different (either more or less "warm" or tinted) in various lights. The colorless range tends to look white all the time, so I went with a colorless for my recent upgrade and took a lesser clarity to stay under budget.
 
Depends upon the person. I can see the difference between a G and J. I can also see the difference between an E and a G.
 
I also think color will vary tremendously by cut as well. I saw an Asscher cut H that was in a halo and that thing almost looked fancy color. I wasn''t sure if it was a GIA/AGS (may have been EGL or even not rated), but it was really obvious from 4 feet away. First because of the cut, and second because of the halo that had like F stones in it. I found this site and think it is a very helpful tool when thinking about color:

http://www.truthaboutdiamonds.com/truth-about/diamond-color/

I think his recommendation is that it''s least important for rounds, you need to go one color grade higher for the square/rectangular cuts (emerald, princess, asscher), and yet another grade higher for everything else.
 
I can definitely see tint in Js, no matter how white people say they face up. I is a bit harder. H I don''t really see anything.
 
Interesting topic.

Does anyone know if the the offer by owner of "truth about diamonds" site posted by rockabee which offers to help folks find the best stone for thier situation with no financial gain legit?
 
I don''t know who runs that website, but I have been glued to it since it was mentioned. Interesting.
 
He apparently earns commission from the vendor for the stones he sold.

He used to post here, but his views on eye-clean are questionable.
 
I found the J and Flor opinion interesting. Oh well, my "J''s" don''t have flor, but I personally. have enough to make up for it.
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I disagree with "truth''s" recommendations.
"Round: H-J – higher than H and you’re paying for a feature you won’t be able to appreciate" -- Speak for yourself. She Who Wears The Ring just might appreciate it.
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Given a choice, plenty of RB wearers will opt for D to G, lol. But the idea might be more true for smaller diamonds than for .75ct & up. Maybe it''s written from that point of view? But I''d say F-H and maybe I is more prudent.

"Round: K-M – the yellow color of the gold is absorbed into the diamond color, so anything higher than K is going to look slightly yellowish anyway" -- Okay, maybe I color & down might look slightly *more* tinted in yellow. But D/E/F mounted in yellow gold still look stark white and not the least bit tinted to me. I have some smaller J diamonds that came out of a YG cluster ring and have been reset in WG now. They do look whiter in WG than they did in the YG ring.
 
Date: 11/14/2009 8:04:54 PM
Author: kolchak
Interesting topic.

Does anyone know if the the offer by owner of ''truth about diamonds'' site posted by rockabee which offers to help folks find the best stone for thier situation with no financial gain legit?
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I haven''t worked with him so I can''t vouch for him. Basically, I think he charges a commission on top of the wholesale price. So ultimately it''s not that different from a straight online vendor. Maybe because he doesn''t have a lot of overhead, he can be more competitive?
 
Date: 11/14/2009 9:00:14 PM
Author: HVVS
I disagree with ''truth''s'' recommendations.
''Round: H-J – higher than H and you’re paying for a feature you won’t be able to appreciate'' -- Speak for yourself. She Who Wears The Ring just might appreciate it.
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Given a choice, plenty of RB wearers will opt for D to G, lol. But the idea might be more true for smaller diamonds than for .75ct & up. Maybe it''s written from that point of view? But I''d say F-H and maybe I is more prudent.

''Round: K-M – the yellow color of the gold is absorbed into the diamond color, so anything higher than K is going to look slightly yellowish anyway'' -- Okay, maybe I color & down might look slightly *more* tinted in yellow. But D/E/F mounted in yellow gold still look stark white and not the least bit tinted to me. I have some smaller J diamonds that came out of a YG cluster ring and have been reset in WG now. They do look whiter in WG than they did in the YG ring.
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yeah, i didn''t take what he was saying as an absolute. and even he will agree that going from an H to say an E, you may notice a difference. but he is speaking more about that "difference" relative to the difference in cost. even from an H to a G, it''s a 15-20% increase in price!

i would never say someone who bought a D, IF 1ct RB wasted their money. it''s a personal decision and to me, there are no right or wrong answers. but can you really see a big difference between that and a G VS2 once its set in WG/plat, face up - assuming you have an AGS0 cut? but we all know there is a HUGE cost difference. i think he is just giving some pointers so that people don''t get too carried away with numbers and letters they forget that most of this is all out the window once a bit of lotion, soap, and dust get on their stones.

i would challenge any professional to find the difference to the naked eye between a VG and EX polish on a GIA stone. if you even touch the table of your stone once with the oil on your finger, i would bet an EX polish goes down visually to a GD polish (or something). and yet, many people pay for the EX polish. again, no right or wrong just how much visual bang do you get for your buck.
 
Depends. What size are you talking about and what lighting conditions? I think this plays a major role.

For me, the limit is H in larger sizes if I want a white looking diamond in all lighting conditions. But as others have said, it depends on how color sensitive you are.
 
I can discern the difference starting with D. I have a painfully acute sensitivity to color variances --I notice it in paint, fabric, gems etc. However it seems the main reason for trying to set a defineable line as to when most people will notice color is because people are trying to find the best value. Personally I think the key is yellow verses beige/brown. I dont mind a lower color stone that has a soft beigy quality, It warms the stone up and can give it a vintage feel. Yellow tone however I have a hard time with and find that they do best in yellow gold or on warmer or darker skin tones.
 
Date: 11/15/2009 10:48:20 AM
Author: elle_chris
Depends. What size are you talking about and what lighting conditions? I think this plays a major role.

For me, the limit is H in larger sizes if I want a white looking diamond in all lighting conditions. But as others have said, it depends on how color sensitive you are.
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I completely agree with this!!! When I met Ellen in St. Louis we walked into a store and I saw some 3 carat rings all lined up and I turned to Ellen (I had never been in that store) but I said I bet those are I's or J's. So we asked the sales person to pull out the rings and sure enough they were I's. Then on another shopping trip I took a friend with me who was getting engaged and I told the sales person to line up the stones from colorless to near colorless (my friend is 2 yrs younger than I am); she has great vision too (20/20) and she couldn't tell which was the J. So I really think it depends on how color sensitive you are but I don't think color sensitive means not liking the slightest bit of color though. My earrings were J's but there were no J's avail in inventory when I purchased my upgrades so I was happy with I's but there is more of a price difference in color though, versus clarity.
 
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