Can the human eye see the difference between G and J color?

[Lynn B]

Well, this is one thing I personally have some firsthand experience with.

My first diamond was an AGS-0, 1.53 G/VS round brilliant. A beautiful stone, to be sure. But when DSS set in and I was looking to upgrade, I found my current AGS-0 2.36 J/SI RB. So for awhile (before I sent back the old G/VS stone in the trade-up), I had both diamonds in my hot, sweaty little hands, and I SCRUTINIZED them and compared them under every conceivable lighting condition.

I am an artist and I feel like I see and notice even very slight nuances of color and detail. I was AMAZED at what I felt (feel) was such a SMALL difference in color between the two stones! Yes, upside down and side by side on a white background, I could certainly tell which one was which. That was a no-brainer. But face up with a few inches between them... the color difference was virtually indistinguishable to my eyes. I was (am!) so thrilled with that because it allowed me to get far more diamond size than I ever dreamed of.

A few photos:

I know there are very real limitations to a photograph and a computer monitor, but here's my old G next to my current J.

And a picture of my J stone set; beautiful and (IMO) blazingly *white*. I would never be afraid of a well-cut J stone, graded by a reputable lab.

 

[rockabee]

Date: 11/15/2009 1:13:10 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 11/15/2009 10:48:20 AM
Author: elle_chris
Depends. What size are you talking about and what lighting conditions? I think this plays a major role.

For me, the limit is H in larger sizes if I want a white looking diamond in all lighting conditions. But as others have said, it depends on how color sensitive you are.

I completely agree with this!!! When I met Ellen in St. Louis we walked into a store and I saw some 3 carat rings all lined up and I turned to Ellen (I had never been in that store) but I said I bet those are I''s or J''s. So we asked the sales person to pull out the rings and sure enough they were I''s. Then on another shopping trip I took a friend with me who was getting engaged and I told the sales person to line up the stones from colorless to near colorless (my friend is 2 yrs younger than I am); she has great vision too (20/20) and she couldn''t tell which was the J. So I really think it depends on how color sensitive you are but I don''t think color sensitive means not liking the slightest bit of color though. My earrings were J''s but there were no J''s avail in inventory when I purchased my upgrades so I was happy with I''s but there is more of a price difference in color though, versus clarity.

just out of curiosity, were these ideal cut rounds and were they graded by either AGS/GIA? most stuff you see in jewelry stores are all over the place. an "I" there could be a GIA "K" for all we know.

 

[elle_chris]

rockabee- I own G,H,I''s and a K stone. All AGS0 H&A''s or GIA excellents. Sizes range from .50ct through 2 1/2ct. I can easily see the difference in my G color e-ring and my K color pendant. From the side, on cloudy days I can see the difference between my I''s and my G as well. I once compared my G to my I earrings face up. For a few seconds (the I''s are .70ct each), I saw the difference. In a larger stone, I''m thinking it would be more obvious.

BUT, the lighting has to perfect, and they have to be in just the right position. Once I noticed it though, there was no going back.

 

[FB.]

Date: 11/14/2009 8:56:37 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I found the J and Flor opinion interesting. Oh well, my ''J''s'' don''t have flor, but I personally. have enough to make up for it.

I have a handful of strong or very strong fluor stones.
In the environments where J colour stones would reveal their body colour, the lighting is not likely to have enough UV activate the fluor unless the stone has strong or very strong fluor.
But I suspect that strong or very strong fluor would make the stone appear very blue when outdoors and/or in sunlight, which might be too blue for some people''s taste.

Basically, from my experience, I wouldn''t be bothered either way about fluor (or not) in a J colour stone.

 

[FB.]

The lighting condition makes a big difference to the ability to see colour in a diamond.
In strong light, they all look very white. In medium or low light, or from angles that aren''t directly within the strong light return, it can be obvious that a stone is tinted.
In some normal day-to-day viewing conditions, I can tell the difference between ideal-cut D/G or F/H, even when face-up and mounted.

 

[Laila619]

I would maybe do a J color if the stone were 1.00 ct or smaller. The bigger the stone, I would be too worried that it would be easy to see the yellow tint.

When I was shopping for my upgrade diamond, a few people told me that with the size I was looking for (1.75 ct +) to go no lower than H color.

 

[Kelli]

I have an H/I colored engagement ring (graded I by the GIA, then recut, and graded H by AGS) and an M pendant. Both are really great cuts. I definitely do see the color difference, but to be quite honest, I REALLY have to look for it. In most lighting, it just looks white to me. If I had known this earlier, I would have gone lower in color for my e-ring too!

 

[rockabee]

Date: 11/15/2009 2:11:57 PM
Author: elle_chris
rockabee- I own G,H,I''s and a K stone. All AGS0 H&A''s or GIA excellents. Sizes range from .50ct through 2 1/2ct. I can easily see the difference in my G color e-ring and my K color pendant. From the side, on cloudy days I can see the difference between my I''s and my G as well. I once compared my G to my I earrings face up. For a few seconds (the I''s are .70ct each), I saw the difference. In a larger stone, I''m thinking it would be more obvious.

BUT, the lighting has to perfect, and they have to be in just the right position. Once I noticed it though, there was no going back.

So true. Once its in the head, hard to get out. I wonder if someone were to tell me a true G was an F and a true F was a G, whether or not I would in my head see that the supposed G was darker than the supposed F- when in fact, it is the opposite! elle, thanks for sharing your thoughts. i''m curious, can you see the difference betwen the H and the G?

 

[yssie]

My very untrained eyes can see the difference between G and J in adjacent 0.4ct stones very easily, top-down and from the side.

Between G and I, however, I saw much less difference. I think people have different tolerances of where they suddenly see the tint, but it''s a sudden thing.

 

[iraweissman]

I''m certainly biased, but I believe I''m legit

And just to be clear, I do have a financial interest in my site. I am an affiliate of several online diamond vendors, and therefore make a commission when I refer traffic to them that results in a sale.

I''d just like to throw my 2 cents into the discussion. The analogy I''ve been using lately to explain color grades is that of teeth. People often ask me if J color (round) diamonds look "yellow." The way I explain it is that you have people with white teeth, and you have people with REALLY white teeth. When you look at someone who has left the bleach on too long, and their teeth positively radiate whiteness, that''s like a D color. You also have people who, when you look at their teeth, you immediately see that they look yellow. That''s like a K/L/M color or lower. In between, you have people whose teeth look white, some more white than others. But you would never think that their teeth are YELLOW. In fact, for most people in this middle range, you would only notice that their teeth aren''t as white as possible if you had just seen a set of REALLY white teeth to compare them to.

It''s like that with diamonds. If you didn''t have a basis of comparison in front of you, the vast majority of observers would never describe a nicely made J color round stone as anything but white.

Ira

Date: 11/14/2009 8:04:54 PM
Author: kolchak
Interesting topic.


Does anyone know if the the offer by owner of ''truth about diamonds'' site posted by rockabee which offers to help folks find the best stone for thier situation with no financial gain legit?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 11/14/2009 1:34:03 PM
Author: Todd Gray

Date: 11/14/2009 1:15:40 PM
Author:ripstruct8
At what point can the human eye actually notice the faint yellow? In a ''J'' color diamond, is the faint yellow noticeable?

It really depends on how sensitive you are to subtle differences in shades of color or tonal value... If you are an artist, a photographer, a commercial painter, a lighting architect, a diamond grader

etc. then you will likely be sensitive to subtle differences in the gentle variations that occur within the transition to each color grade... There are definitely customers who I sit down with who are capable of distinguishing the difference between D-E-F-G stones with ease and they definitely see color in I-J-K color diamonds to the extent where they express a keen interest in remaining in the higher colors. However there are many, many more clients who don''t seem to be able to distinguish a distinct difference and LOVE diamonds with a little body color in them because their eyes aren''t so sensitive to color and they''re able to pick up a little more size and still get all the sparkle!

Suffice to say, people should spend a little time looking at diamonds without first knowing the paper grade of the color in order to determine what their preference, or perhaps tolerance, is for diamond color and then go diamond shopping...

Todd says it very well, and I want to add only that many of my clients prefer the color of a warmer gem for the sake of the warmth. Being able to get bigger for the same or even less money is icing on the cake, but for those who give themselves the benefit of looking at stones without knowing the grades first, many are amazed to find they actually like the "less perfect" stones better.

The vast majority of my clients gravitate towards the better cut diamonds, but I have been very surprised at how many love the colors warmer. I started out my career having drunk the koolaid about whiter being better, but as I have learned to watch my clients I am now totally convinced that color is and should be a very personal choice. I can "train" you to see and appreciate cutting, but your choice of color is entirely yours.

Wink

 

[Phoenix]

I haven''t read the whole thread, but what I can say is that for the consumers, having lower colours (but ideal cut) is a *great* choice. It allows one to go much bigger without having to spend a whole lot more money.

I myself have been near-"brainwashed" into thinking that higher colours are better; and if money were no object, I''d only buy D-E-F, but boy, am I glad that there are vendors who cut these lower coloured stones into such AMAZING beauties!

To answer the original Q, yes, i can see the difference in G and J, even when they face up, but only in certain lighting conditions. I have J coloured studs that when on the ears, only sparkle, sparkle, sparkle and not a hint of warmth can be seen then.

 

[coda72]

I am one of those people that can detect subtle differences in color. I definitely see a difference between F and H, and even more difference between F and I. J has pretty noticeable color to me. I do have a J colored stone, and it is absolutely gorgeous, but the next time I upgrade I will probably go back to I color. J is just a little too tinted for me. Now, with that being said, I don''t regret getting a J stone at all, and I would still recommend J stones to people who want a bigger diamond on a budget. For me though, I want my forever stone to be I colored or higher.

 

[WinkHPD]

I should add also that as we age our color perception changes. As a younger man I scored a 98 on the Munsell color test. I have not been tested in many years, but would be very pleasantly surprised if I scored 90 or better.

Wink

 

[vespergirl]

Yes, most people can definitely tell the difference in most lighting situations.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 11/16/2009 9:25:11 AM
Author: Wink Jones

The vast majority of my clients gravitate towards the better cut diamonds, but I have been very surprised at how many love the colors warmer. I started out my career having drunk the koolaid about whiter being better, but as I have learned to watch my clients I am now totally convinced that color is and should be a very personal choice. I can 'train' you to see and appreciate cutting, but your choice of color is entirely yours.

I know that I'm going to Hades for this, but I'm 99.9999% positive that people with the last name "Jones" should refrain from comments related to "drinking the Koolaid"

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 11/16/2009 11:13:17 AM
Author: Todd Gray

Date: 11/16/2009 9:25:11 AM
Author: Wink Jones

The vast majority of my clients gravitate towards the better cut diamonds, but I have been very surprised at how many love the colors warmer. I started out my career having drunk the koolaid about whiter being better, but as I have learned to watch my clients I am now totally convinced that color is and should be a very personal choice. I can ''train'' you to see and appreciate cutting, but your choice of color is entirely yours.

I know that I''m going to Hades for this, but I''m 99.9999% positive that people with the last name ''Jones'' should refrain from comments related to ''drinking the Koolaid''

I don''t think so. I think you already spent several years there and you get a pass for piddly things like yanking my chain.

Still, it is hard to believe that for nearly thirty years I could have counted the diamonds I sold that were below an H on one hand and the H''s by using my feet as well. Now I have a reputation as being a low color lover when the truth is I just love diamonds. Cut them right and I don''t much care about color, or clarity for that matter. (So long as the stone is bright and structurally sound of course.)

Wink

 

[Karl_K]

My opinion is the color that bugs someone is very different than the point that they can see tint.
Also the lab color grade is not a very good indication of just how much color one will see.
Lighting makes a huge difference and cut a smaller one that can change what color it appears.

The 100 dollar question is at what color does it start bugging you for any given cut and lighting?
There are many answers to that question.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Good point Karl- Besides lighting, how about setting?
Many stones look totally different color once you set them.
I''ve seen this go both ways, where the stone set looks whiter- and also when it looks more yellow after setting.


IMO Todd''s post was spot on.
It''s a personal thing.
If you were hiring color graders, and interviewed many people you''d find a wide range of how color sensitive people are.
At one end is color blindness, the other incredible color sensitivity.
The important thing for consumers is learning where they fit on the scale.
Clearly, there''s a lot of value in I-J colored diamonds- but not if you see such a stone as "tinted" and it bothers you.

When I worked for Harry Winston, color grading was done only by women ( some of whom were pretty old Wink) who worked in the mornings and early afternoon.
They would never color grade important stones in the later afternoon, or on cloudy days.
But these ladies were SUPER sensitive to the most minor differences in color