Can this tourmaline be saved? Recut??

[pinkjewel]

I purchased this pink tourmaline before knowing much about gem cutting- still don't know that much
But I know enough that this one has windows, and it was not an inexpensive stone-so have thought about getting it recut. It is hard to photograph the color as every time I get near it with my black camera it seems to pick up the black color, but face up it is a very pretty bubble gum pink. The color of it sideways is the closest to its color, but without the orange it is picking up. It is 3.55cts and is 10.2 x 8 and I don't have depth, but it is a pretty deep stone.

So my questions are- would recutting it be possible and do you all think it would help? If so, recommended cutters?. Any idea on price? Or would putting it in a rose gold bezel type setting hide the windows by saturating it with the rose gold color?

 

[Thuvia]

I can't speak to the effect that bezeling would have on the window since I usually only bezel set cabs. That aside, how much does the window bother you? Does your eye zero in on it every time you look at the stone or do you only notice it when examining it closely? A recut of the pavilion only might be the way to go if it bothers you enough. A total recut would reduce it not only in carat weight, but also dimensions and depth of color. As for recutting, I send all my stones to Dan Stair and have been satisfied with both the price and results.

 

[minousbijoux]

From the side, the stone looks very deep - too deep to have a window. So I'm thinking it has a tilt window perhaps due to the cut. The window I see is pretty small and I would imagine will close up when set, unless its a tilt window.

What precisely bothers you about the stone - the window, extinction, color or cut? Sorry, but I couldn't quite tell from your post.

 

[webdiva]

Jerry from Gemart recut my stone and I was sooo happy with it! Definitely email him pics and the depth and dimensions and he'll be able to advise you! It was very affordable, too! In the $160 range!

 

[chrono]

I am debating internally whether your tourmaline has a true window or if it is showing a tilt window. It has a decent depth and I'm happy to see a high crown. The second picture shows a very tiny tilt window while the third is iffy to the angle of the tourmaline. To tell the difference between a tilt window (which many lower RI stones will show, like a beryl or tourmaline) and a true window, the stone must be assessed straight down the table. Another helpful picture is if you can photograph it on the back of your hand. This will help you imagine it set - to see if the window will be less apparent or if it'll still bother you.

 

[pinkjewel]

thanks for the replies. It is a tilt window- it looks great when viewing from the top. But just the slightest tilt-and you're looking straight through the stone. I love the color of the stone right now-as I said it was hard to capture as it reflected my black camera color when I could get close enough to shoot. It is a very pretty pink IRL.
Here is a hand shot- what do you all think?
I have been in touch with Dan- by the pictures he thinks if he just recuts the pavillion he can give it a little more life.

 

[ChrisA222]

If that tilt window bothers you, I think you should send it to Dan. I've had him re-cut many of my stones, most of them are ovals with windows/tilt windows. The great thing is that they almost always face up the same size, as he will probably only recut the pavillion. His prices are great and he works quickly too. He will give you another evaluation once he gets the stone, too. I think its a great stone, I don't see that soft pink color often in Tourmaline. It looks clean too. Give it a shot!

 

[chrono]

Perhaps a touch up is will be all that is required although it looks really well cut right now. That's the problem with low RI stones like aquamarine and tourmalines. The slightest shift and they show a glorious tilt window unless you have super fancy or very busy faceting patterns.

 

[ChrisA222]

Thanks Chrono as I didn't know that. I just got a Peridot, Trillion cut. It looks fantastic until you turn it the slightest bit, and there is that big gaping tilt window.

I wasn't sure if I should return the stone (otherwise it is very nice, very good brilliance (unlike the last Peridot I bought at about 5 times the price that was 'precision-cut') or not....but if you are saying that a Peridot which has a lower RI, is always going to show a tilt window in a standard cut like a trillion, than I will keep it. Otherwise, the stone is great! (But not worthy of a recut...its only a 2.5ct stone...one of those "Manchurian" Peridots from JTV. I rarely buy stones from them nowadays, but this one was a steal. JTV is quick to discount as most of their stones are overpriced and underquality but occasionally you get a deal on something decent (with a tilt window!!) haha

 

[pinkjewel]

If that tilt window bothers you, I think you should send it to Dan. I've had him re-cut many of my stones, most of them are ovals with windows/tilt windows. The great thing is that they almost always face up the same size, as he will probably only recut the pavillion. His prices are great and he works quickly too. He will give you another evaluation once he gets the stone, too. I think its a great stone, I don't see that soft pink color often in Tourmaline. It looks clean too. Give it a shot!

thanks, Chrissa222. Dan said he thought he could just add a little life by recutting the pavillion, but would know more when I sent it to him. As he is in the process of moving- he won't be able to look at it for at least a week.

 

[pinkjewel]

Perhaps a touch up is will be all that is required although it looks really well cut right now. That's the problem with low RI stones like aquamarine and tourmalines. The slightest shift and they show a glorious tilt window unless you have super fancy or very busy faceting patterns.

Chrono- It is supposed to be a precision cut stone and it was done by an American gem cutter. So, in your opinion- should I just leave it alone? Maybe it will not be helped by anymore cutting- and it was expensive, so if I'm losing carats and not gaining much in a recut-maybe I should just not do anything with it. It is really sparkly face up. Hopefully, once it was set it wouldn't be so noticeable. thoughts??

 

[ChrisA222]

Id absolutely send it to Dan, and have him give you an opinion. Tourmaline isn't one of those stones that has a high value per ct, so even if you lost a half of a ct and still had the same size, the "value" really wouldn't go down. IN fact, that value would go up since the stone would be better-performing.

Not all "precision-cuts" or "precision cutters" are created equally. Dan will tell you if he thinks you should keep it untouched. I had a very valuable stone recut by Dan recently, a rare color-change garnet. It went from 1.81cts to 1.69cts...so yeah, I lost a little weight in a very expensive material, but the stone looks so much better, as it had a very large belly. Much more sparkle. Good luck!

 

[chrono]

PinkJewel,
Your tourmaline is a stone that I doubt will benefit much from a re-cut - that is the nature of tourmalines. That said, I have a few small precision cut pink tourmalines faceted as rounds that do not show the tilt window as easily. I am sure that there are many factors that come into play here which includes the size, facet design, skill of the lapidary, shape and more. Is the tilt window less noticeable on your hand? If so, then having it set might be all that is required for your personal enjoyment.

Chris,
I gifted my mother a concave cut trillion peridot years ago. It didn't show the tilt window as easily (probably because of the faceting design), plus I had it bezel set, which might have made it less apparent.

 

[RedSpinel]

From the side, that stone doesnt look too poorly cut, and you wouldnt think it would have a prominent window in it since its so deep and the pavilion facets arent rounded off at the bottom, and arent too shallow. So its odd that it would have a window, but I guess the light reflective/refractive properties of tourmaline might be whats causing it to show a window even though not shallow cut or rounded at the bottom.

 

[PrecisionGem]

You can window a stone with angles that or too shallow and also too deep

 

[pinkjewel]

You can window a stone with angles that or too shallow and also too deep

Precision Gem- do you think recutting this stone could help the tilt window? Is it too deep?

 

[PrecisionGem]

You are not seeing a tilt window. The last picture you posted looks pretty straight on, and the stone is windowed on both sides of the keel pavilion. This isn't a tilt window, if it were you would only see the window on one side. From the pictures, this looks like a good candidate for a recut as there is plenty of depth to work with.

NOTE: I don't do cutting on other peoples stones, so I have no vested interest in this.

Cute dog in your avitar! If you are in the NYC area, bring him to our Sound for the Hounds event. http://www.soundforthehounds.com

 

[VapidLapid]

It looks like that last tier at the bottom is causing all the trouble. Looks like plenty of depth for a re-cut, and the girdle is crazy thick so there is room there to allow for a more optimally performing cut.

 

[chrono]

If the stone is truly windowed, I question the skill of the lapidary. I would certainly get it tweaked if that is the case.

 

[pinkjewel]

You are not seeing a tilt window. The last picture you posted looks pretty straight on, and the stone is windowed on both sides of the keel pavilion. This isn't a tilt window, if it were you would only see the window on one side. From the pictures, this looks like a good candidate for a recut as there is plenty of depth to work with.

NOTE: I don't do cutting on other peoples stones, so I have no vested interest in this.

Cute dog in your avitar! If you are in the NYC area, bring him to our Sound for the Hounds event. http://www.soundforthehounds.com

thank you so much for your opinion. I think with that in mind I will go ahead and pursue a recut.

Thank you for your compliment on my maltese, Candy. She is a cutie!! Unfortunately, I am not in the New York area or would love to attend the Sound for Hounds event. I love dogs- I have two more at home,too. They are not too spoiled and have me trained well-LOL.

 

[pinkjewel]

It looks like that last tier at the bottom is causing all the trouble. Looks like plenty of depth for a re-cut, and the girdle is crazy thick so there is room there to allow for a more optimally performing cut.

looks like another vote that a recut is in order!! thank you for your thoughts

 

[pinkjewel]

If the stone is truly windowed, I question the skill of the lapidary. I would certainly get it tweaked if that is the case.

I agree, I'm questioning his skill also. Good to know it can probably be recut fairly easily and would not be a major job or expense.

 

[wordie89]

First of all thanks to all contributors; the information is helpful as I am debating recutting a 3 ct red spinel with a big belly.

Vapidlapid I wondered why you thought the last tier of cuts on the pavilion were causing the trouble? When I looked at the picture again I can see that it doesn't appear as shiny.

 

[chrono]

Windowing is always caused by incorrect angles used in the last few tiers in the pavilion, usually the last 3 tiers or so. When looking down through the table, the last few tiers are the ones smack dab in the middle of the stone which is why a windowed stone looks like it has a hole in the center. The shininess or lack of it is just where the light happens to hit the stone in the photograph and has no bearing on whether a stone is windowed or if the angles are incorrect.

 

[wordie89]

Chrono thanks for the info! Of course! It makes sense when you explain it that way.

 

[wordie89]

I have another question, not really about the stone but about settings. I have a 9 x 7 cut corner emerald shaped stone and wonder if it would be difficult to set in a solitaire made for an 8 mm princess? Would the prong positions be adjustable in a platinum ring? The current owner of the ring said it's too big for her 2.6 tourmaline. Thanks.

 

[chrono]

The setting is too square for your stone. Yours is 0.5 mm too wide on one side and 0.5 mm too tall on the other side. Although there is some give (it is about the same for both gold and platinum), it is only +/- 0.5 mm each way. Even if for some unforseen reason it somehow fits, you'll get an overhang of metal on the shorter 7 mm side which is unslightly to some wearers.

 

[wordie89]

Chrono, this is tardy but thank you for the feedback. I did pass on the setting. sigh. it was pretty. But no sense in squishing a carefully selected stone into the wrong setting.

 

[LD]

I also don't think that's a tilt window. Several of your photos are angled head on not slightly tilted. One problem you have is that the stone is very deep - so you'll have to have a setting that sits quite high off the finger. In turn, that can prohibit having a basket that would minimise the window UNLESS you go custom. A ready made setting would, probably, have your stone sitting too high.

So, your options are (a) a partial recut that may be possible because of the depth (b) a custom setting with a relatively closed basket (possibly rose gold) that should help to minimise the window or (c) leave it well alone because in terms of windows, it's not huge! Can you live with it the way it is????? In the photo where you've put it between your fingers the window is much less noticeable and you're likely to get a similar effect once set.

 

[pinkjewel]

thanks LD- I already had Jerry recut the pavillion. It turned out wonderfully. There's a thread on the recut. Here's Jerry's photo.