Casey Anthony trial...

[lbbaber]

The jury was sequestered. They had no contact with the outside world - no family, no newspapers, no fun outings. You can be pretty sure that all the waking hours they spent outside of the courtroom were hours that they spent thinking about this case. I wouldn't be so quick to say that the only time they thought about what they heard in the courtroom was during those final 11 hrs.

Have you ever been on a jury?? I have. I was on a double murder trial. The jurors are in no way, shape, or form allowed to discuss ANY part of the trial--their opinions about ANY of the testimony--UNTIL THE CASE IS FINISHED, closing arguments made, and THE JUDGE ALLOWS YOU TO. It is drilled in the jurors OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If you get caught discussing it you can be thrown off the jury. The reason being is that they want you to HEAR EVERYTHING BEFORE discussing....

The trial I was on took 6 weeks and we spent 6 days deliberating--asking for NUMEROUS recalls and POURING over the evidence---and my case was nowhere near as complicated!!

These jurors spent 11 hours deciding this conclusion without reviewing ANYTHING but their own notes."Thinking" about it on their own is not enough. I wish they spent half the time and energy that the PSers did in this thread each night. WHAT A SHAME!!!!

My DH and my father have always said we need professional jurors. I am starting to believe this myself.

Come ON. A jury is constitutionally made up of a "jury of our peers." I get where your DH and father are coming from...but are they serious? Have you even thought through the kind of taxpayer money it would cost to HIRE a jury made up of professionals, let alone the ramifications of doing that? I think you're being flippant but I'm not sure. Please tell me you are? You seem very level-headed from posts I've read of yours...your last statement in the quoted post just caught me off guard, so I'm sorry if I'm coming across as abrasive, I really don't mean to.

No, I dont agree with them or atleast I have always argued that they are wrong. What is bothering me is that I have seen SO MANY cases with jurors that dont even use the law (let alone common sence) when they give their verdicts. Have you heard the alternate juror disccuss WHY he agreed with this verdict? And I'm not just referring to this case now. I know someone that was on a famous case here many years ago that had to be retried several times bc of 'hung' juries before the state actually gave up. The person I know told me that he voted to aquit the guy (and hence hung the jury) "because I could tell he was innocent because of the way he smiled. I am good with people's faces"...No joke. That is what he said. That was when my dad became convinced that a 'jury of our peers' isnt working. There are way too many idiots out there. I don't know what the answer is but this isnt working.

Maybe I am too personally invested bc my sister was murdered at age 3 and her murderer walks free after serving 10 years for manslaughter. He beat her bloody. Her liver and splean was torn apart. Her skull was crushed and numerous broken bones. The jury said they couldnt prove murder bc they weren't there and he claimed she "fell down the stairs". Now I have to see him walk free.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Italia, that was a fictionalized account of opinion on a blog. It wasn't posted to argue "what we know." If anything to point out that we DON'T know and might never know. The main thing I took away from the blog was her question as to what is in those sealed records. What was SO prejudicial that they couldn't be released? I heard the author in an interview and she, based on her experience as a prosecutor working on cases involving crimes like this, said she suspects that Caylee may have been the victim of child pornography and possibly even prostitution...with her mom being the pimp. Again, just theory and conjecture, but interesting.....

That made me want to throw up...even the suspicion, the hint, that that might be true? Well, that's a whole new level of this woman being seriously, seriously...OMG, I can't even go there. Can. Not. Go. There.

I actually took away a lot from the blog, and I do realize it was fictional. But it was, I'm guessing, what closing argument would have looked like, had Baez and his gaggle of misfits stuck to the truth and only punched holes instead of mucking up the issue.

 

[dragonfly411]

Italia, that was a fictionalized account of opinion on a blog. It wasn't posted to argue "what we know." If anything to point out that we DON'T know and might never know. The main thing I took away from the blog was her question as to what is in those sealed records. What was SO prejudicial that they couldn't be released? I heard the author in an interview and she, based on her experience as a prosecutor working on cases involving crimes like this, said she suspects that Caylee may have been the victim of child pornography and possibly even prostitution...with her mom being the pimp. Again, just theory and conjecture, but interesting.....

That made me want to throw up...even the suspicion, the hint, that that might be true? Well, that's a whole new level of this woman being seriously, seriously...OMG, I can't even go there. Can. Not. Go. There.

I actually took away a lot from the blog, and I do realize it was fictional. But it was, I'm guessing, what closing argument would have looked like, had Baez and his gaggle of misfits stuck to the truth and only punched holes instead of mucking up the issue.

That makes me sick too, but I've wondered from the start if something similar might be going on, or if she was doing SOMETHING that used Caylee to make money. Where else did she get money to go party?

 

[Laila619]

That makes me sick too, but I've wondered from the start if something similar might be going on, or if she was doing SOMETHING that used Caylee to make money. Where else did she get money to go party?

From dear old Mom and Dad.

That plus stealing from friends.

 

[lbbaber]

So even with this 4 year sentence she will be out by August. With so much of society HATING her and furious over this, she made an extremely poor chioce trying to argue away the 4 seperate charges. To come in there and have her lawyers argue that those charges should be treateed as one---when even the max sentence would get her out in August was just plain stupid.

If her lawyers wanted to help her at all, they should have had her stand up and take BLAME for her OBVIOUS LIES. No matter what, she will be out soon. Why not TRY to get back in good graces with the public opinion. She has to come back and live in the real world. If she had stood up and taken blame instead of letting her lawyers try to weasel her way out of another one, she would have made a step in the right direction.

 

[JewelFreak]

LBB, I'm so sorry! What an indescribable thing to experience. If it were I, it would take a lifetime of therapy to make even a dent in the anger. But I feel the same about many injustices like that. My best wishes for you & your family.

One thing hasn't been mentioned & Ashton didn't either, in his closing argument. Consciousness of guilt. It's a valid concept to be used in reaching a verdict. Casey did not call police. She lied & lied & lied up to the discovery of the skeleton; then she lied more with new stories. That clearly indicates consciousness of guilt.

she suspects that Caylee may have been the victim of child pornography and possibly even prostitution...with her mom being the pimp.

That is so disgusting it doesn't deserve an answer. I'd freakin' sue her if I were Cindy A. Let's not repeat garbage like this.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Italia, that was a fictionalized account of opinion on a blog. It wasn't posted to argue "what we know." If anything to point out that we DON'T know and might never know. The main thing I took away from the blog was her question as to what is in those sealed records. What was SO prejudicial that they couldn't be released? I heard the author in an interview and she, based on her experience as a prosecutor working on cases involving crimes like this, said she suspects that Caylee may have been the victim of child pornography and possibly even prostitution...with her mom being the pimp. Again, just theory and conjecture, but interesting.....

Uh, no. She would have been prosecuted for engaging in child pornography! The records would not have been merely sealed!

 

[LadyBlue]

HH, I found really interesting what you said. Until I remember that Caylee was found in a blanket, laundry bag and duct tape that belong to the Anthony's family. How this other people would have had access to that?

In my opinion, there was not any hard evidence to make her guilty. But everything point to her, and in my opinion if someone else kill her and Casey prefer to be silent about that, she still deserves to be put in jail for murder. Because that means in some way or another she is guilty of killing her daughter being direct or indirect.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Italia, that was a fictionalized account of opinion on a blog. It wasn't posted to argue "what we know." If anything to point out that we DON'T know and might never know. The main thing I took away from the blog was her question as to what is in those sealed records. What was SO prejudicial that they couldn't be released? I heard the author in an interview and she, based on her experience as a prosecutor working on cases involving crimes like this, said she suspects that Caylee may have been the victim of child pornography and possibly even prostitution...with her mom being the pimp. Again, just theory and conjecture, but interesting.....

That made me want to throw up...even the suspicion, the hint, that that might be true? Well, that's a whole new level of this woman being seriously, seriously...OMG, I can't even go there. Can. Not. Go. There.

I actually took away a lot from the blog, and I do realize it was fictional. But it was, I'm guessing, what closing argument would have looked like, had Baez and his gaggle of misfits stuck to the truth and only punched holes instead of mucking up the issue.

That makes me sick too, but I've wondered from the start if something similar might be going on, or if she was doing SOMETHING that used Caylee to make money. Where else did she get money to go party?

Exactly and chloroform is commonly used to sedate children in these situations. In addition to having anesthetic properties it's also an amnesiac so they don't remember.

 

[Sha]

I've been on a jury before. the magnitude of the responsibility was overwhelming. I was being held responsible for someone else's life. I was not on a death penalty case...I was not even on a life in prison case. But depending on my thoughts, someone was going to go to jail. The trial took a week. The deliberations took a day and a half. And you know what went on in that day and a half? Arguing. And listening over and over to recorded phone calls from the defendant to various different people. Arguing. Poking at the large quantities of drugs sitting in front of us. A LOT of arguing.

Circumstantial evidence is hard to win on (this is also agreed upon by two attorneys I see every day, who would acquit her too, and seemingly by a couple here on PS). Period. The only real witnesses to Caylee's demise are Caylee and her murderer. That may or may not include Casey.

And I would have come to the same conclusion as those twelve jurors. I would have acquitted her too.

There was nothing presented in the case that was absolute proof that she did it. I am not interested in scientific jibber jabber. I imagine the jurors weren't either. Sometimes lawyers will present witnesses that are so incredibly smart and hardly understandable for someone who doesn't have a basic knowledge in what they are experts in. And it usually ends up backfiring. Odds are, the jurors aren't science/medical/etc people and it goes right over their heads, so they discount it. Sure air sampling and bugs and their part on decompensation is fascinating, but...

So here is what I think. I think that she had something to do with Caylee's demise. I don't know what part she had in it, and I don't particularly care, it has no bearing on my day to day life. And in my job I see so many many terrible things, that something like Caylee's story is just a drop of water under the bridge for me. Yeah, that's sad when I think about it too. There was no part of the trial that said, "beyond any doubt, CASEY did this. PERIOD." There were plenty of opportunities for someone besides Casey to have some part in this.

I have read the entire thread, and it really seemed to me that just about everyone already said/felt/proclaimed Casey was guilty from the very beginning. From BEFORE the trial.

The prosecution did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey killed Caylee.

Do I think she did SOMETHING? Yes. Maybe it was just being a terrible negligent mother. Maybe it lead to Caylee's demise. Either way, I do not believe that the prosecution proved that Casey committed the crimes she was accused of in this trial.

Did her car stink? Yes. Is she the only person to ever have driven it? Probably not.

Was she the only one who used that computer? No.

Is Caylee the only person that has ever been dumped in a swamp to get rid of her remains? Heck no.

Was Casey the only person who had access to that pool? No.

Did she lie A LOT? Yes. Certainly. And they found her guilty of that.

Tape over her mouth? Casey wouldn't have been the first.

Casey not wanting to have Caylee? She wouldn't be the first young woman to be guilted by her parents to keep a child, and she will not be the last. Does that mean she killed Caylee to get rid of her? No. She had other options. Murdering is most certainly the messiest of all options I can think of. She could have given custody of Caylee to her parents. She could have put her up for adoption. She could have dropped her off at a hospital. She could have dropped her off with Child Protective Services, or whatever it's called in FL.

It it suspicious that she didn't call 911 when Caylee had been missing for 31 days? Yes. Does it prove anything? No. It's suspicious, but it doesn't PROVE that CASEY killed CAYLEE.Etc.

Other people had the opportunity. Do other people have motives? Sure, why not? It also could have been an accident. Is her situation weird? Yes. But the only person who knows what happened or didn't happen is Casey. And she isn't going to incriminate herself. She can certainly still be charged with other crimes.

As a juror, you have to look at things without prejudice. You have to look at it as it's presented to you. And you can only use the evidence put in front of you by the prosecution and defense. You can ONLY use whats in the courtroom. They beat that into you.

After my own jury experience (which I absolutely adored btw) the prosecution team came in and explained that there was a witness that the defendant scared off. They had to drop several charges against the defendant because that witness bailed. And we were totally in the dark. We had NO IDEA that there even was this other person who didn't show, that there were other charges. Being a juror is terribly difficult, but for me it was very satisfying. I did my civic duty; I learned a hell of a lot; I did what I was asked to do and I did the very best I could do. I imagine that these people did the same.

Speaking as a pregnant woman, I cannot fathom killing my own child. Every single twinge I feel makes me worry that something is not ok. And I can't help but think "What a waste it would be" if something happened to my child...a waste of the first trimester where I was nauseous ALL OF THE TIME. A waste of energy, time, etc etc etc. Speaking as a child of a parent who lost a child, it is incredibly devastating to lose something that is literally part of you, something that you invested money and yourself (emotionally and biologically) into. It is a very disturbed person that could harm their own child. But it happens.

And I would still acquit her.

I don't know.... It's easy to find alternative explanations for each of these things (e.g the chloroform searches,the smell in the car, the lies etc)...but taken together, they ALL suggest her guilt. The circumstantal evidence is overwhelming against Casey. Of course, they don't PROVE that she killed her daughter, but if direct proof was needed for every murder case, then how many murderes would be set free? If the circumstantial evidence all point to her, isn't that enough?

Someone remind me about the Scott Peterson case...was there direct proof that he killed Laci in that case? Or was it circumstantial evidence alone?

On another note - I was SO not impressed with Cheney Mason's gloating at the press conference and victory dinner (giving the finger to the media). Totally inappropriate and tasteless, IMO. The focus should not be about who 'won/lost', especially with so many ppl emotional about the verdict - and he made it about that. I really liked how Baez handled it.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

On another note - I was SO not impressed with Cheney Mason's gloating at the press conference and victory dinner (giving the finger to the media). Totally inappropriate and tasteless, IMO. The focus should not be about who 'won/lost', especially with so many ppl emotional about the verdict - and he made it about that. I really liked what Baez had to say.

That part disgusts me. The middle finger? Wow, real classy Cheney, apparently that is the sign of great grief over the loss of a child

 

[Sha]

Ditto, Italia.

Just did some reading on the Scott Peterson case 9another case that sickens me to my stomach). The evidence there was mostly circumstantial too. Cause of death and proof that Scott killed Laci was never determined, since it was only her torso that washed up on the Bay. ( I think the only bit of forensic evidence was a piece of her hair that was found in a pliers on Scott''s boat). And Scott was convicted with the death penalty.

So what's different with this case? Seems like the jurors wanted absolute proof that Casey did it and weren't prepared to convict if they didn't have that. That's how I see it.

 

[Lanie]

Next Wednesday....cue the countdown clock on HLN! (That's a joke...I think it IS getting blown out of proportion)

ETA: llbabber -- that's just awful. I am so very sorry to hear that.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Professional jurors are, in essence, the same as judges. Holland, where I lived for 5 yrs & DH grew up, does not have juries. People are tried by a 3-judge panel. I wouldn't want to put my life in their hands. In the U.S. you CAN always waive a jury trial & have a bench trial -- in which the judge is the jury. Many corporate cases where the evidence is specialized & complex are done that way.

The standard for conviction is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have seen judges in other trials include in jury instructions that "circumstantial evidence is evidence & must be considered along with any direct evidence." Maybe Perry should have done that.

These jurors did not go through all the evidence. In 11 hours they couldn't have examined much of it; there was enough to have required 3 days just roaming through it all, let alone including discussion time.

Murder 1 does not carry an automatic death sentence. If they had found her guilty they could have recommended life in prison & the judge in Florida is prohibited from raising it to death. He can lower a sentence despite jury recommendations, but not raise it.

PC-ness has gone so far, too many people are afraid to judge anyone. It's madness. We're to feel "compassion" for those who do evil. How about justice, for the victim of that evil and for our society as a whole? Yes, boys and girls, even an attractive young woman can do unspeakably horrid things. "It makes me a better person not to judge anyone." It makes you spineless -- even Jesus did it.

Last night a guy said the system worked well. You're guaranteed a jury of your peers: she's a moron and the jurors were morons.

Yes to all of this. The only thing I would add is that hearing all of that evidence would not have required me to go back through all the evidence to make a decision. Casey was responsible for the child's death regardless of how it was done, and I would have compromised on 1st degree murder if I had had to, but I would have NEVER walked out of that court with a compromise of not-guilty on the first charge. Yes, the jury would have been hung, but I would have walked out with my conscience intact.

 

[lizzyann]

I really like Judge Perry!! He's no BS.

Me too. LOVE HIM.

Casey was sentenced to 412 days of jail time for her check forgery...so since JP sentenced her to 4 consecutive years, she could be in prison for a while.

Italia, where did you hear this? HLN is saying she is getting out on Wednesday of next week. Has something changed?

lbbaber, so sorry to hear about your sister. I am sorry justice is not being done for her. Some people who have lesser charges end up in jail for longer than that...that is just not right.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

lbbaber...that is horrific, and another example of incredible injustice. To think of an evil person like that on the streets again is sickening. I can't even imagine how your family must feel.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, she is getting out July 13th:

http://news.yahoo.com/jurors-cried-felt-sick-acquitting-anthony-012228871.html

 

[janinegirly]

llbaber: I am so sorry, that is just heart wrenching to read. We need to stop making excuses for people - there is accountability in society, we shouldn't have to resort to saying things like "he/she will rot in hell,etc."

And she will be released on on Wednesday. I find it interesting that she wore her hair down in court for the first time -hope she's not prepping for more table dancing and tattoos celebrating her new "life".

 

[lbbaber]

Thankyou LizzieAnn, Lanie, Diamondseeker, janine, and Jewelfreak.

The problem with my sister's murder was that it happened in the early 80's---laws have come a long way since then to protect children---AND his family owns a popular bakery here in New Haven. They had alot of political 'friends' and connections. Nobody wanted to believe a rich boy from a "fine white family" would do anything so horrific. My sister was bi-racial and that was part of his motive (according to my family). He currently (on occcasion anyways) drives a van for his family's bakery doing bread deliveries and I have seen him on the road a few times. A face I will NEVER forget (even though I was only 5 the last time I saw him face to face).

This is why I tried to stay out of this thread....way too emotional for me!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I really like Judge Perry!! He's no BS.

Me too. LOVE HIM.

Casey was sentenced to 412 days of jail time for her check forgery...so since JP sentenced her to 4 consecutive years, she could be in prison for a while.

Italia, where did you hear this? HLN is saying she is getting out on Wednesday of next week. Has something changed?

lbbaber, so sorry to hear about your sister. I am sorry justice is not being done for her. Some people who have lesser charges end up in jail for longer than that...that is just not right.

No, but I had figured when she plead guilty to check forgery--a felony, mind you--that there would be SOME jail time. Apparently not.

IIB...I am also sorry about your sister. I really feel for you, and am thankful in so many ways the laws have changed to protect the innocent.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I think Caylee sent a message to everyone...

A tree, where Caylee's remains were found, was struck by lightning and split in half.

 

[dragonfly411]

I think Caylee sent a message to everyone...

A tree, where Caylee's remains were found, was struck by lightning and split in half.

When was this??

 

[Laila619]

lbbaber, I am so sorry. God, that is just heartbreaking. Hugs.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I think Caylee sent a message to everyone...

A tree, where Caylee's remains were found, was struck by lightning and split in half.

When was this??

Just a little bit ago, shortly after it was announced that she'd finish her jail term in one week...

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/os-casey-anthony-tree-lightning-20110707,0,4481884.story

And yes, I agree with the article, the angels aren't happy.

 

[iheartscience]

I think Caylee sent a message to everyone...

A tree, where Caylee's remains were found, was struck by lightning and split in half.

When was this??

Just a little bit ago, shortly after it was announced that she'd finish her jail term in one week...

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/os-casey-anthony-tree-lightning-20110707,0,4481884.story

And yes, I agree with the article, the angels aren't happy.

If the angels are unhappy, why didn't they just strike Casey Anthony with lightning?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I was just watching Vinnie Pollitan on HLN--I really like him.

He had on two women who sat in front of George and Cindy today in court. They recounted the conversation Cindy and George had with their attorney and it's very disturbing to me.

Apparently, the were discussing how "pretty" Casey looked. Really? Spare me, please! But I guess it's par for the course, same old same old. It disgusts me to no end.

They were also discussing Lee...surprised he and Mallory didn't come to the court house today to welcome Casey home. ::gag:: As if.

I don't get it. Seriously. It's so upsetting that they can sit there, in light of everything she said and everything she's done, and still think of her as a "pretty" person. She's ugly to bone.

 

[dragonfly411]

I think Caylee sent a message to everyone...

A tree, where Caylee's remains were found, was struck by lightning and split in half.

When was this??

Just a little bit ago, shortly after it was announced that she'd finish her jail term in one week...

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/os-casey-anthony-tree-lightning-20110707,0,4481884.story

And yes, I agree with the article, the angels aren't happy.

If the angels are unhappy, why didn't they just strike Casey Anthony with lightning?

Not to take this into forum illegality, but b/c God gave us free will?

Italia I do agree with you, it disgusts me, and it disgusts me that they can say that when their granddaughter was in a garbage bag somewhere. The entire thing is unfathomable to me. It scares me what kind of people exist. What scares me more is that they don't always realize that what they think and feel is wrong.

 

[iheartscience]

I think Caylee sent a message to everyone...

A tree, where Caylee's remains were found, was struck by lightning and split in half.

When was this??

Just a little bit ago, shortly after it was announced that she'd finish her jail term in one week...

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/os-casey-anthony-tree-lightning-20110707,0,4481884.story

And yes, I agree with the article, the angels aren't happy.

If the angels are unhappy, why didn't they just strike Casey Anthony with lightning?

Not to take this into forum illegality, but b/c God gave us free will?

Since God gave angels free will they decided to strike a tree with lightning instead of a human?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I honestly didn't mean to suck religion into this. I was only bringing it up because it struck me as very poignant that on today--when the case is essentially over--as people stood around remember Caylee and wishing her peace and comfort, this massive storm would pass through and cast lightning at that spot, hitting that tree. That's all. And because I felt injustice was done that day, I saw a message. Maybe i should take up reading tea leaves, but that's just me.

On a side note, another juror, not exactly sure which one, explained that they had a hard time finding Casey negligent in the care of Caylee because they were unsure who was responsible for the care of the child are large. They didn't know, couldn't figure out, if it was Cindy or Casey. That made me sick. CASEY was her mother, ultimately and irrevocably in charge of Caylee...period. Cindy taking an active role in raising the child as the grandmother doesn't remove responsibility for Casey in the slightest and should not stand as proof of ANYTHING. But, it goes directly back to my issue with the verdict at large, the evidence was not considered and things that were speculation or assumption were given far, far to much weight.

ETA:

Did anyone else note that Casey will have spent, as of her release next week, 1,043 days in jail? Caylee was alive for 1,042 days.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Italia, I agree about the jury being very wrong. And no, I had not realized the # of days. That is really strange.