Casey Anthony trial...

[diamondseeker2006]

If an intelligent, thoughtful person can be presented with evidence that leads them to be certain about one thing but feels that the law requires that they determine something else, then I do not understand the point of trial by jury at all.

Agree a thousand percent, Maria. And the law does not require that, unfortunately for the jury's verdict here.

A note about the Anthony family's "weirdness." We actually have no evidence they were any stranger than a zillion other families. Since Baez could offer nobody to testify to abuse, we can assume there wasn't any. The parents enabled a self-centered, manipulative, & dishonest daughter, probably throughout her life, but how many thousands of others have done the same? Not good parenting, but not "weird." Dumb, but not bizarre. George may or may not have slept with a woman who professed compassion at a time of stress none of us can imagine -- while his wife seems to have been more wrapped up in once again getting her daughter out of trouble than in giving him emotional support he obviously needed badly. Poor choice, but I wouldn't call it weird.

All other family behavior mentioned took place when the light of their life was missing & their daughter invented one story after another, ditto after this little girl's skeleton was found in the mud & gook, her mother's car reeking of decay & death. Honestly, absent Nazi occupation, I can't picture a worse catastrophe in a family. I don't know how I'd act but I'll guarantee it would not be the way I normally do. Perhaps they weren't ever the most pleasant family or the best balanced, but they don't sound different to me than a good many. Until death & murder entered their lives.

--- Laurie

I totally agree, Laurie. I have thought the same thing. This family is one of millions who had a bad kid, and they didn't know how to deal with her. It is hard to detach from a child because you still love them. I hope they can now, because since she is likely to make some money from murdering her child, she won't need mom and dad for awhile and will ignore them.

I think we do know where everyone stands by now, but I will say again that this evidence was FAR beyond reasonable doubt in my mind.

 

[lulu]

All these alternative theories being propounded are illogical. There are two theories of the case- the Prosecution's and the Defense's. If you come up with any other theory you are saying "Casey lied about the baby drowning" If you say that, how can you interpret any of the other evidence in the Defense's favor?

Would someone please lay out an alternative reasonable theory consistent with the evidence.

 

[Lanie]

[/quote]Casey kept things hidden, she had a lot of well constructed lies. Maybe it is possible that she was involved with something really heinous that--even to save her own life--she couldn't come clean about. Something so gross, something so revolting, something indisputable. I'm NOT saying she didn't kill Caylee--I believe 1000% she did--but I also think there is something, somewhere that was missed.[/quote]

I agree with this, and I think this is where Casey was getting money, and I think this might explain the murder. And yes, I know everyone is going to say "but another person or a kidnapping wasn't in evidence". It wasn't, you're right. So I can't consider that. And I didn't in my reasonable doubt.

Italia -- the point you brought up about the tape of Casey in the jail cell having a freak out when the actual remains were found vs the ones found in a lake and she was cool as a cucumber....I heard today that the original judge didn't admit that into evidence in order for Casey to have a fair trial. I don't understand that for a second. That video tape would be huge in my opinion.

 

[Lanie]

lulu -- I hear you girl, I promise. I see where you are coming from. For me, reasonable doubt was the pics of Caylee crawling up the ladder and opening the patio door. I don't know the cause of death. I'm looking at reasonable doubt's legal definition as I think of all of this. I'm looking at the jury's instructions, which were an eye opener to me. My emotions, however, tell me she's guilty. Now, no one jump on me please. I think the meaning of reasonable doubt should be revisited.

 

[Lanie]

P.S. I'm still wavering. I thought I had myself convinced last night, but I heard the 911 call where Cindy is hysterical and Casey is super calm, and that made me question it all over again. ARGH. I think I'm done posting on this thread.

 

[JewelFreak]

The photos showed Caylee going up the ladder w/her grandmother helping her. They are not proof she could do it by herself, although it's possible she could. But...

...Do any of you have sliding glass doors? Those suckers are heavy! Could your 2-yr-old yank them open? In the pic used by Baez, Caylee was standing beside the closed door with her hand on it. She could barely reach the handle. It did not show her actually opening that door. Cindy, in her testimony, admitted that she had to give it a strong pull herself. Baez used the photo & let everyone assume she's opening it.

Sorry, folks, but this speculation about kiddy **** & that sort of stuff is wild & ugly. It upsets me because there isn't an atom of anything to indicate it's true. Whatever Casey did with the kid when she "was with Zanny" would shock us, but let's not go too far off the rails. That's made-up stories imho. Casey's family rolled over for her -- they probably didn't ask where her money was, just paid & paid for Caylee. She stole a LOT -- and had money from selling Caylee's photos to mags & tv. If she owes $70K to the IRS, she had to have gotten at least $210K for them. Living w/your parents, that will go a long way.

 

[taovandel]

I heard an interview with the bodyguard that was placed with Casey after she was bailed out. She said that the sliding door was always open a bit so the dogs could run in and out. She also said she had trouble sliding the door open and closed because it was so heavy and she said the picture was "staged" in that it looks like Caylee is opening it but she really wasn't--the door was already a tiny bit open for the dogs.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

She only got the 210k after Caylee went missing...most of that, if not all of that, went to Baez. His upfront retainer was like 90k...but remember, she had Mason and a handful of others...not a one was pro bono. She mentioned to Lee, in a jail house interview, that she had recently opened a check accounting...I'm sure some of it, if there was any left, is tucked away--but probably frozen by the IRS.

She stole money, yes. She stole from her grandmother, her friends, and her parents...the report of that is somewhere in the thousands, maybe low 5 figures. But was it enough to look like 2 years salary minus $400.00 per week for the "nanny"? I doubt it.

Lets be honest. The money HAD to be coming from somewhere, the time Caylee was unattended too by the key players, she had to be somewhere. Is there proof? No. Not a shred of it. But Casey was a brilliant manipulator, and if she wanted to keep something hidden--something her parents didn't know about--I bet she could figure out a way, and if she were involved in anything shady--I'm betting those people she associated with aren't the type to come forward, no matter what. I'm not saying this is fact, I don't know one way or another, but because I know she's a liar and a manipulator, I don't put ANYTHING past her...certainly not anything that would benefit her.

The foreman of the jury has now come forward, and will be on Greta VS this evening but will not show his/her identity. He/she says he/she feel "disgust" over the not guilty verdict. Also saying that many of the jurors, when deliberation began, felt she was guilty--but changed their minds. Of course, they changed their minds without the aid of recall or evidence, but that's beside the point. But, he/she also said they found her "not guilty" because the state didn't prove "how it happened"... Which kind of goes back to everything we've been saying all along...it wasn't a smoking gun case, no one was ever going to present a tape of Casey mid-killing smiling at a camera.

I also wonder why it is, that if they really believed she was not guilty of ANYTHING, so many are saying they feel sick over the decision they made now? Is it because they went home, got rest, saw their families and had time to digest and review the evidence again at their own leisure? Is it that they have heard "reasonable doubt" recounted and explained over and over and realized they held the state to higher burden than was required of them? Is it because they finally had the opportunity to look down every rabbit hole, everything that wasn't evidence per say but was out there for the public to know about?

I think that knowing that would be a great benefit to future prosecutions.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I heard an interview with the bodyguard that was placed with Casey after she was bailed out. She said that the sliding door was always open a bit so the dogs could run in and out. She also said she had trouble sliding the door open and closed because it was so heavy and she said the picture was "staged" in that it looks like Caylee is opening it but she really wasn't--the door was already a tiny bit open for the dogs.

The dogs were yorkies...small dogs, not big honky labs.

I also find the picture strange in general. Who takes a picture of a kid trying to open a door? Does that not seem odd to anyone else?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

.

Italia -- the point you brought up about the tape of Casey in the jail cell having a freak out when the actual remains were found vs the ones found in a lake and she was cool as a cucumber....I heard today that the original judge didn't admit that into evidence in order for Casey to have a fair trial. I don't understand that for a second. That video tape would be huge in my opinion.[/quote]

That's real annoying. Because that's as good as her admitting she knew which remains belonged to a child. To me, evidence is evidence is evidence. If it happened and it's verified, it should be allowed. No different than that stupid, pointless testimony by the prison guard that Casey was a model inmate. What did that have to do with anything? If Casey's jail behavior was going to be entered, let it all hang out and flap in the breeze.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

So, I'm watching the juror right now...and making notes of what he's saying so I can keep my thoughts clear.

1. He admits that, yes, the duct tape was on the skull...it wrapped around from the back, but wasn't "over the mouth"... (then Cheney Mason gets on the show and says duct tape was never across Caylee's face...only in her hair)
Okay...for me, this makes perfect sense. The duct tape was placed across Caylee's face with skin, tissue, muscle still there...as those things decompose, the tape would slip off, since what it was attached too is gone. Accept, of course, for the hair, hair doesn't decompose like tissue.

2. The duct tape was 100% verified from the Anthony home.


3. The body was dumped in the swamp...but that was a grey area.

4. Not convinced on how she died...speculates there were a number of ways Caylee could have died...there was evidence of chloroform, but there was also a pool, with a door she could open and a ladder she could climb.
Again, where is the proof, outside of a few pictures of a little girl (with her back to the camera) opening a door, on her tip toes (which is hardly any leverage) and her climbing in the pool, in a swim vest, with the help of her Grandmother? What child goes swimming in their street clothes?

5. Chloroform searches on the computer? She may have just wanted to know what chloroform was. No proof she made it. Searches only lasted for 3 minutes.
The site was visited 84 times. The ingredients in Chloroform are house hold products, including Shock Wave--a pool chemical. These were things the Anthony's were bringing into the home anyway, no need for a special trip to the store.

6. They didn't consider the fact Cindy could have lied about the searches, she was in pain, on medication and questioned multiple times.
What about the fact that her employer has her logged in and working at the time of the searches? What about the fact that Chlorophyl and Chloroform are two different things? What about the searches being deleted.

7. Not everyone smelt decomp. Some did, others did not. Evidence of Caylee was in the trunk, but who put her there and for how long remained unknown.
What about the body farm expert who said, yes, without a doubt it was decomp? Who cares how long she was there? It was CASEY'S car..in her possession before/during/after the time Caylee went missing.

8. Evidence of chloroform in the trunk but not on steering wheel or door handles.
Why does the car need to be bathed in chloroform for chloroform to be present? If Casey put the chloroform rag over Caylee's mouth away from the car, washed her hands and then approached the car...it wouldn't be there.

9. Didn't understand why George handled picking up the car like he did--didn't call 911 over smell, didn't call his daughter.

10. Didn't believe molestation claims...but the juror used the word "MANY"...not all.
I get stuck on the use of the word "many"...the molestation, rape, incest was not evidence ALL should not have considered it.

11.Only held George accountable for how he acted on stand. Selective memory. Could tell you everything about June 15, but then couldn't remember things about gas can. All of the things about George--including affair--raised questions...questions about character and involvement. Couldn't answer if George would lie at the expense of his daughter. Suspicion of him...was he a murder?
George Anthony was not on trial of the murder of Caylee Anthony. If Cindy gets a free pass because she was in pain, why wasn't the same consideration allotted to George? He was aggressive on the stand because false accusations were being lobbed at him from the defense--would anyone be buddy/buddy with the guy accusing him of rape? The affair was not relevant--and again--if they were going to consider "bad behavior" ... what did they make of Casey's partying?

 

[Lanie]

I heard an interview with the bodyguard that was placed with Casey after she was bailed out. She said that the sliding door was always open a bit so the dogs could run in and out. She also said she had trouble sliding the door open and closed because it was so heavy and she said the picture was "staged" in that it looks like Caylee is opening it but she really wasn't--the door was already a tiny bit open for the dogs.

The dogs were yorkies...small dogs, not big honky labs.

I also find the picture strange in general. Who takes a picture of a kid trying to open a door? Does that not seem odd to anyone else?

YES. I considered that the defense might have staged the photo or photoshopped it. You don't see Caylee's face. But, they are under oath and they say the whole "fair and accurate representation" bit. But yes, I thought that was an oh so convenient photo to have.

 

[dragonfly411]

So, I'm watching the juror right now...and making notes of what he's saying so I can keep my thoughts clear.

1. He admits that, yes, the duct tape was on the skull...it wrapped around from the back, but wasn't "over the mouth"... (then Cheney Mason gets on the show and says duct tape was never across Caylee's face...only in her hair)
2. The duct tape was 100% verified from the Anthony home.
3. The body was dumped in the swamp...but that was a grey area.
4. Not convinced on how she died...speculates there were a number of ways Caylee could have died...there was evidence of chloroform, but there was also a pool, with a door she could open and a ladder she could climb.
5. Chloroform searches on the computer? She may have just wanted to know what chloroform was. No proof she made it. Searches only lasted for 3 minutes.
6. They didn't consider the fact Cindy could have lied about the searches, she was in pain, on medication and questioned multiple times.
7. Not everyone smelt decomp. Some did, others did not. Evidence of Caylee was in the trunk, but who put her there and for how long remained unknown.
8. Evidence of chloroform in the trunk but not on steering wheel or door handles.
9. Didn't understand why George handled picking up the car like he did--didn't call 911 over smell, didn't call his daughter.
10. Didn't believe molestation claims...but the juror used the word "MANY"...not all.
11.Only held George accountable for how he acted on stand. Selective memory. Could tell you everything about June 15, but then couldn't remember things about gas can. Held that about him, on guard for that behavior. All of the things about George--including affair--raised questions...questions about character and involvement. Couldn't answer if George would lie at the expense of his daughter. Suspicion of him...was he a murder.

Reading that seriously just makes me furious. I mean REALLY? Really... not even manslaughter based on ALL of the evidence working against her? Sigh.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I heard an interview with the bodyguard that was placed with Casey after she was bailed out. She said that the sliding door was always open a bit so the dogs could run in and out. She also said she had trouble sliding the door open and closed because it was so heavy and she said the picture was "staged" in that it looks like Caylee is opening it but she really wasn't--the door was already a tiny bit open for the dogs.

The dogs were yorkies...small dogs, not big honky labs.

I also find the picture strange in general. Who takes a picture of a kid trying to open a door? Does that not seem odd to anyone else?

YES. I considered that the defense might have staged the photo or photoshopped it. You don't see Caylee's face. But, they are under oath and they say the whole "fair and accurate representation" bit. But yes, I thought that was an oh so convenient photo to have.

I'd hate to accuse anyone of dirty pool...but you're judged by the company you keep. Casey is nothing if not a liar...Baez, for all we know, is a liar just the same. If this was the strategy, and this was the defense...it's something they'd need to prove it.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Reading that seriously just makes me furious. I mean REALLY? Really... not even manslaughter based on ALL of the evidence working against her? Sigh.

Right?!

To the jurors credit, he did come off very well spoken, appeared educated. The second part of the interview is tomorrow--which is when he'll dive into what went on behind closed doors.

But all of that aside, I was able to counter -- with my own approximation of the evidence -- how all of that isn't a cause of doubt, how each bit was systematically rebutted by the prosecution with fact.

All, expect of course, their feelings towards George. I think that is muddy water. They felt he was "off"...he came across as deceptive to them--from his recall, to the affair. Those are things we can't argue with fact, other than his having an affair had no baring on the case. No one, not Lee, not Cindy, not George, had perfect recall. They all remembered, very clearly, points of time. But, I can see that, my own memory works that way...there are things I can bring up in perfect spot on recollection, other things, not as clearly. I think that's human. Would I remember the last time I saw my grandchild? Absolutely. Would I remember which gas can was which? Probably not. One has significant value in my life, the other doesn't. One I'd force myself to remember, the other probably would get lost in the shuffle because it's a gan can.

 

[JewelFreak]

Photoshopping that pic of Caylee by the door hadn't occurred to me -- but I wouldn't put it past Cindy or Baez, except it would take skill not to make it obvious. However, given Baez's background, I don't have lots of confidence in his honesty. I nearly screeched when he put Cindy on the stand saying she made those chloroform searches -- he HAD to have known it was a lie. An ethical atty would have done the same research the prosecution did of work records in order NOT to suborn perjury. Not good ole Jose.

I don't get the lack of belief of George by the jury. After seeing that guy melt into a puddle of anguish on the stand, I believed everything he said (except about the affair -- I don't know & don't care; it's irrelevant). When testimony looked bad for his daughter, he gave it anyway & I can only imagine how painful that was. When it was helpful to her, he gave that too. So he was hostile to Baez; the guy had just accused him, a former policeman, of 1) sexual perversion over years, 2) adultery, 3) the insanity of making an accident look like murder. Gosh, you think he might resent that?

--- Laurie

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I followed GVS up with the Dateline special on the ID network. Dateline had two alternates who weighed in.

The first alternate was the same older man that spoke out initially. He said, that he kept waiting for "the smoking gun"...and yes, that's a quote from him on the Dateline program. The smoking gun.

The second was a younger man, probably around Casey's age. His point was, he understood how Casey felt--that he is young and likes to go out. But it wasn't in the way that convey'd "I like to go out...but parenting should come first" it was "that behavior is normal, she's not a wild party girl, she's a normal average 21 year old"...

It's statement like that that make me sick to my stomach, I could go through the TV when I hear her behavior was normal or there was no smoking gun.

 

[lulu]

I have searched everywhere for an unpixelated photo of Caylee's skull without success. Here is a link to the autopsy report which indicates the duct tape was still attached to the skull.


http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2009/06/caylee-anthonys-autopsy-report.html

 

[dragonfly411]

Italia - Unfortunately young pregnancies have been portrayed as more and more normal, as have behaviors associated with the young mothers/fathers being able to hand their children off so they can go be "normal", and party and have fun. Instead of instilling the responsibilities of being a parent into their kids, the grandparents are letting their kids get away with being irresponsible. It's really sad to see because they're learning that they can put all of their problems off on other people, and that they don't have to take responsibility for their own children, and their children will develop closer bonds with the grandparents. It's a pattern in general with the younger generations though. They have to take less and less responsibility. If they don't do their homework, then hey, the teacher offers extra credit. If they don't understand a math problem, ask a calculator to do it for you, they're allowed on all tests now (at least they are around here). If they don't feel like getting a job, mom and dad will make sure they're provided for. I see it more and more and more. I've seen it watching my little sister and her friends as they get older. It really does make me sad.

 

[TooPatient]

What would make sense would be if the picture had been photoshopped. --- I can EASILY imagine Cindy taking a picture of her granddaughter reaching up to the door (knowing full well she wouldn't be able to open it) with the dogs on the other side. A two year old excited to be looking out at the dogs (possibly with the dogs sitting just on the other side looking at her) is just plain cute (when you know they can't open so won't be hurt). I've watched people take pictures like this (I've even done it myself!)!

Anyone with dogs knows that they can get the most adorable look and seem to enjoy sitting looking in the glass door.


What dog-loving 2 year old wouldn't stand by the door (and maybe even reach for it like she's seen her mom & grandparents do) if faced with something like this (and what parent/grandparent could resist taking a picture?):

 

[JewelFreak]

Exactly, TP. Cute babies you have there!

 

[MAC-W]

I have nothing polite to say about Casey Anthony and her family but I've just finished watching an interview with Jayce Dugard and wanted to comment about what a difference there is between these 2 young women and their attitudes and approach to life. Its was quite striking.

 

[choro72]

df, what do being raised by grandparents, calculators, and lazy homework habits have to do with murdering your child?

On another note, news-flash!
http://www.theonion.com/articles/na...eyard-sucking-marrow-from,20925/?mobile=false

 

[JewelFreak]

Choro, I'm sure you know what she meant.

The Orlando police held a news conference today to explain their work on this case after Baez used them as a scapegoat. Haven't seen it -- I suppose it will show up on YouTube or somewhere.

--- Laurie

 

[Italiahaircolor]

df, what do being raised by grandparents, calculators, and lazy homework habits have to do with murdering your child?

On another note, news-flash!
http://www.theonion.com/articles/na...eyard-sucking-marrow-from,20925/?mobile=false

Do you see the irony in what you posted? People calling NG tabloid ... and then you direct us to the onion? Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I have nothing polite to say about Casey Anthony and her family but I've just finished watching an interview with Jayce Dugard and wanted to comment about what a difference there is between these 2 young women and their attitudes and approach to life. Its was quite striking.

I saw the same thing.

How about the distinct difference between the two mothers? Both had children go missing. One moved heaven and earth to find her daughter, the other ... well, we know all of that. It's just very jarring to see the difference. It makes me sad for Caylee. Sure, the entire nation wanted her found, posted links and searched and hung posters...but a mother diligence cannot be underrated.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Choro, I'm sure you know what she meant.

The Orlando police held a news conference today to explain their work on this case after Baez used them as a scapegoat. Haven't seen it -- I suppose it will show up on YouTube or somewhere.

--- Laurie

Wonder how all the cops are going to process having to protect her now? She's going to need protection. I personally do not believe in vigilante justice, and I would hate to see anyone waste their life on the likes of Casey...cause lord knows, they'd be found guilty.

 

[iheartscience]

df, what do being raised by grandparents, calculators, and lazy homework habits have to do with murdering your child?

On another note, news-flash!
http://www.theonion.com/articles/na...eyard-sucking-marrow-from,20925/?mobile=false

Do you see the irony in what you posted? People calling NG tabloid ... and then you direct us to the onion? Pot, meet kettle.

The Onion is a satirical newspaper, not a tabloid.

The article Choro linked to is completely apt and absolutely hilarious. Funny 'cause it's true and all that.

 

[lulu]

Nancy Grace( who can make me crazy with her rudeness, but who also keeps these missing kids in the spotlight) is showing interviews with Cheney Mason before he came onto the Defense team, criticizing Baez and the Defense team. Very entertaining.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

ES has filed their civil suit to the tune of 112k ... ouch! But, I think it's great! I hope they can recoup every single red cent and put it towards other missing children. Casey abused their resources and wasted their time...now, she can pay for it.