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Champagne Diamonds

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pyramid

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What is the colour of the best champagne diamond is it on the scale of C1 to C5 or does it have its own name like the yellow diamonds e.g. fancy vivid yellow. (Also, does the fancy vivid yellow or canary diamonds have a number to recognise them with also or just names? Is canary the same as fancy vivid yellow or different?)

Would the best colour champagne diamond be more or less expensive than a white diamonds say colour G/H/I all other things being equal and just colour being the selecting factor?

Thank you for your expertise.
 
shbiplfs1
shbiplfs2
as in "Should Have Been Industrial Polish Lets Find a Sucker 1"
 
strmrdr
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I see what you mean


I have found this thread in which Richard Sherwood explains the colours
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/champagne-diamond-color-scale.4618/



I know the yellow diamonds are expensive does anyone know the answer as whether they have colour scale numbers and what these are?
 
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here's my 0,2

Some look great, and most of times the price will depend strongly on whatever overtones the stones have (could be yellow, orange, pink... gray or green, with the last two not so desirable). Brown is not a highly prized shade in gems - you would hardly ever see a large, attractive brown corundum faceted and sold for jewelry although these could be attractive. Same for diamonds - larger browns look spectacular, if you find one to look at!

Shades being a matter of taste, the one thing to look for in these champagne diamonds is (as far as I know) the depth of color - too much and brilliance is very much gone. C1 is a light tone (some could get these as a bargain brother of whites, although this is a stretch). Often the Argile grades are applied by the seller and the bias would be to call darker stones with a "lighter" name: you may hear 'C5' for something looking more like a expresso than cognac. The size of the stone is critical for how dark it appears face up, making things worse...

Labs would call these "fancy (light or dark) brown" and mention modifiers if any (say "fancy orange brown"). I do not know how the Argile scale relates to GIA's, IGI's and so forth. The color grades are rather broad for these, allowing visual differences among stones of each grade, unlike what is done for colorless diamonds.

I guess I should mention that while brown diamonds tend to be bargains (perhaps comparable with S-T color grades but with exceptions due to size and overtone of color). But also, the brown color modifier in yellow, orange or pink diamonds (called "fancy brownish yellow" and so on) does lower the price substantially.

There are a few brown listed currently at Fancydiamodns (see their list of "sold" items) and Diamonds by Lauren and there is a chart of Argile names on Garry's site (LINK).

Hope this helps. There must be more to say and corrections are surely welcome too
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Oh, and STRMDR is right. There is subtantial marketing for these browns, but I do suspect many are still crushed. Not something that bothers me as long as I like the object
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Thank you valeria101. I was thinking the champagne diamonds were costly like white diamonds but they are not it seems.

Regarding yellow diamonds I saw one in a jewellers here in the UK called fancy vivid yellow it was pear shaped and cost £6,800 or $12,422. Ofcourse I never looked at it out of the window but it looked about 1 carat in size. I really did not like the colour of the diamond neither did my sister who was with me. The diamond was a deep yellow colour sort of like a golden citrine colour I would say. I notice it has gone from the window now so someone must have loved it and bought it.

I take it these diamonds just have names, rather than lab colour scale numbers and letters, such as fancy vivid yellow, fancy intense yellow and that canary is a term for all yellow diamonds, is this correct?
 
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On 8/11/2004 10:13:47 AM pyramid wrote:



I take it these diamonds just have names, rather than lab colour scale numbers and letters, such as fancy vivid yellow, fancy intense yellow and that canary is a term for all yellow diamonds, is this correct?

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Click to expand...


Hm... every lab has a color scale with some name (words and/or numbers) for each step. Argile's scale has those funny C's and P's and GIA coined "fancy" for all non-white diamonds with some obvious dominant color (there are non-whites that GIA would not call "fancy" - yet another story). Also on GIA's scale color intensity goes from "light" to "deep" among fancies and there are quite a few places on the Web to get the details. (LINK to short presentation)

"fancy vivid" on GIA's terms is the most desirable denomination (as far as I know) for any color but brown and gray which do not get these "names" at all (as far as I know) since these are not spectral colors, tecnically. The page mentioned describes this too.

I am not surprised that you found an odd looking fancy vivid yellow - the grade is very desirable, but not all stones carrying it are beautiful: I would expect that poor cut, extensive graining (even if no visible inclusions are there) and strong fluorescence to make stones dull. Unfortunately, the "fancy vivid" wording on the certificate would make the price just as much as the gem's look sometimes
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Thank you valeria101.
 
Some of those pinky and orangy browns on the websites Ana posted are very pretty. They'd look great in rose gold settings.
 
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On 8/11/2004 1:53:23 PM glitterata wrote:

Some of those pinky and orangy browns on the websites Ana posted are very pretty. They'd look great in rose gold settings.----------------
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Exactly what I was thinking... they're absolutely lovely. That they're so much less than white diamonds astonishes me.

Of course, if my taste was anti-expensive, blue diamonds would be dropping like *cough* rocks any day now.
 
Hi Pryamid- and hello to everyone else!

In my opinion, it is the price which prevents many brown diamonds from visiting the GIA. It costs a lot of time and money getting a GIA report- so less expensive stones rarely go there.

There are clearly defined color grades- although it is difficult to pin down some of the more unusual colors with a name.
For example: Fancy Vivid Yellow is a distinct GIA color grade. Yet, an indiviual may love one stine with the GIA grade, and dislike another. That's because not every vivid yellow has an identical hue.
It also does not stop individuals with low character, or low knowledge from calling a diamond vivid without a GIA report- a big NO NO.



Now, there's also been mention of the fact that brown diamonds are less expensive than other colors.
This may indeed be the case- BUT- there can be huge variables in desirability that affect the price- in very substantial ways.

501bc.JPG


The 5 carat brown diamond above caught my eye the instant I saw it.
We bought it non certified.
When we submitted it to the normally half asleep GIA intake person ( it's kind of like the DMV over there) her eyes popped open- "WOW- that's an incredible diamond!" she said. We've submitted stones worth 10 times as much with nary a raised eyebrow.
The GIA gave the diamond "Fancy Brown Yellow" - not exactly the most descriptive grade.
I'd say the maket value of brown diamonds, leading less people to submit them, leads GIA to use fewer grades to descibe them.
 
Pyramid the Argyle C1 to C6 (and fancy cognac) is an in house system that no labs use.
There is very little price difference between C2 and C5, it is just personal preference, so unlike all the other grading calls that have huge impact on costing - you will not find a standardization.

As a rule champagne diamonds are poorly cut. Well cut stones can be 1/3rd to 1/4 price of GHI color for the same clarity.
 
Am I turning to the dark side??
Some of the orangish diamonds and some of the honey colored ones are talking to me!
Yummy!
ah well all I have to do is look at a yellow diamond *barf* and I return to sanity :}
 
Thank you diamondsbylauren and Garry H (Cut Nut).

The reason I was asking was because a neighbour's daughter who is a doctor was sporting her engagement ring the other day which is a pear cut and looks yellowish, beige, pink so I assumed it was a champagne diamond and would be costly due to their jobs. Maybe it was not a diamond but it looked like a clear stone.

The fancy vivid yellow I saw in the jewellers was nothing like it but I did not like that one anyway, the stone my neighbour's daughter has is very beautiful. She has it in a custome setting with gold going all around the pear in a sort of loop and the ring looks like a wishbone shape, she said she is getting her wedding band to match the ring shape so it fits. I did not have the courage to ask if it was a diamond as I assumed it must be.

There again she probably has education loans to pay off yet as it is only about 3 years since she qualified. Maybe she preferred this colour of diamond as there was a lot of gold around the ring so maybe the white diamond does not appeal to her anyway.

I was also asking about the yellows as I assumed the description fancy vivid yellow was just that a description and would have code letter such as the G colour diamonds do. I see now that fancies as described in different ways.
 
From your description of the color, it sounds as if it could be a padparadesha sapphire. (Did I spell that remotely like the way it should be spelled?) A pinky-yellowy-peachy color that's highly valued in sapphires.

Why not say to her, "What a beautiful ring! What kind of stone is that?"?
 
glitterata I would love to know but do not want her to think I think it is not diamond. I would not say peach more yellow or beige with a tiny hint of pink and it seemed clearer than a sapphire although it was a pear cut and maybe depends on the cut of the stone.
 
I see. Are you afraid you'd insult her by suggesting that it's not a diamond? I thought it was more common in the UK to have non-diamond engagement rings--like Princess Diana's sapphire. No?

What about an open-ended "What a beautiful ring! Can you tell me about it?"

Or "What a beautiful diamond! I've never seen one that color. Is it a fancy yellow or a pink? That's just heavenly!"

I think if you express your admiration sincerely, she'll be flattered rather than insulted. But maybe that's a cultural difference between the UK and the US. I know we're famous over there for asking boorish questions.

Also, I would think that how much money the engagement ring cost is more likely to reflect the groom-to-be's finances than the bride's.
 
Pyramid- here's a stone that , to my eye, exhibits the colors you mentioned- light: brown/yellow/pink

211a.JPG



And yes - this is a natural non treated diamond
 
I just don't feel comfortable asking about it not being a diamond, we are seeing more diamonds in the UK now I think and when it is a sapphire it is usually blue. I think that it is a diamond but not pink enough or yellow enough to be a fancy vivid or anything. Her groom to be is an engineer so I think he earns a lot too.

It looks like the one diamondsbylauren has posted but with less pink.

I might ask her later if it is a coloured diamond when I see it again if I feel it is definitely not a poor colour white diamond. From my memory I believe it may be a bit like the one diamondsbylauren posted as it seems to have less colour than a sapphire or other coloured gemstone.
 
Hi Valeria101,

Do you happen to know any place that has (or regularly carries) faceted brown corundum? Either loose stones or in a setting? I'm always looking for brown translucents.

thanks
 
The answer to brown diamonds and brown sapphires is the same. Treatments. 6 years ago East Indian dealers had truckloads of brown diamonds that were cleanish 1 ct stones for $400 per ct. A real bargain for anyone who liked the color. Same stone is now $1200 perct. Much of the material is being treated with new tech irradiation which is more predictable, and HPHT which produces much higher $$. Brown sapphire rough which was never popular is now treated to be much more attractive of a brown and often turns orange and redish orange. I had a natural colorchanger from Songea which was brownish, organgish, greenish, depending on light source. 5ct stone in a mens ring, really cool gem.
 
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