Chicken Kunzite

[minousbijoux]

You didn't by chance ask about the petrol smell, did you? Or ask if there is anything they use in the process of the treatment that might smell...?

 

[Alnitak]

You didn't by chance ask about the petrol smell, did you? Or ask if there is anything they use in the process of the treatment that might smell...?

Drat. No, I didn't think to ask about that. There's no inherent reason it should have that smell, as irradiation doesn't require any compounds like that--you simply put the stone in proximity to the gamma source. However, since most of these are irradiated in Lahore, Pakistan, it could be that the facility there somehow got something on the stone. I'll ask him about it when I go to see him with some crystals.

 

[LD]

You didn't by chance ask about the petrol smell, did you? Or ask if there is anything they use in the process of the treatment that might smell...?

That's the bit I want to know too!

I understand that irradiation can fade but what the heck was the smell all about!

I'm going to take a photo in a minute so you can see that it's still the very palest green and hasn't changed for years so I really don't think it's ever going to hit the pink sweet spot!

 

[Alnitak]

You didn't by chance ask about the petrol smell, did you? Or ask if there is anything they use in the process of the treatment that might smell...?

That's the bit I want to know too!

I understand that irradiation can fade but what the heck was the smell all about!

I'm going to take a photo in a minute so you can see that it's still the very palest green and hasn't changed for years so I really don't think it's ever going to hit the pink sweet spot!

I wonder what would happen if you put it in the sun for a few minutes?

 

[Alnitak]

I think this is fine to post since I'm not selling it. Maybe some day...but not in the near future. I just got a photo of the second stone cut for me from a 199g chunk of dark purple Oceanview kunzite. There will be one more from this original piece of crystal rough. The first one was the Superman-shield I posted here earlier. This is a 46.15 carat pear-shaped stone, faceted in a custom cut by Stephen Kotlowski (an AGTA award winning faceter and a master at his craft), Uniquely K Brilliant Multi Tier Pear Shape, 24.91 x 19.92 x 16.42mm. When I get it in my hands later this week I'll photograph it in the studio and with the other gem from this crystal.

WOW. I might take this one to the grave with me!

 

[LD]

Have just taken some very quick photos. I need to correct myself - last time I looked at this it was still showing some green. It's now absolutely colourless and is simply picking up colour from the background. I've held it up to the light, put it on different surfaces but it's not showing pink or yellow (despite what it looks like in the photo). I wonder if going pink or yellow will be the next step!!!!

Anyway, here's the now un-smelly gem for you to see!

Edit: You do realise I live in the UK don't you? Sun?? What's that then? Actually what I will do is take it on holiday in the summer and leave it out in the sun for a few hours! To be honest I don't care what happens to it so am happy to experiment! What do you think will happen in the sun? I'd presume not much.

BTW, why don't you have some smaller gems cut? I like big statement jewellery but crikey 40ct is even out of my league even as a cocktail piece!!!!!

 

[Alnitak]

Have just taken some very quick photos. I need to correct myself - last time I looked at this it was still showing some green. It's now absolutely colourless and is simply picking up colour from the background. I've held it up to the light, put it on different surfaces but it's not showing pink or yellow (despite what it looks like in the photo). I wonder if going pink or yellow will be the next step!!!!

Anyway, here's the now un-smelly gem for you to see!

Edit: You do realise I live in the UK don't you? Sun?? What's that then? Actually what I will do is take it on holiday in the summer and leave it out in the sun for a few hours! To be honest I don't care what happens to it so am happy to experiment! What do you think will happen in the sun? I'd presume not much.

BTW, why don't you have some smaller gems cut? I like big statement jewellery but crikey 40ct is even out of my league even as a cocktail piece!!!!!

Haha! I didn't know you were in the UK. I have lived there myself for several stretches: about 8 months in 2008 and 3 months in 2010. I was in London and I did see the sun *sometimes*!

As for your gem, it just went through the natural change of all of the manganese from Mn+4 (green) to Mn+2 (colorless). Too little total Mn content to get any real color. If you had put it in the sun right away, it would have likely gone a pale pink and then gone to colorless.

I do have smaller stones cut, but when I get a big piece of fabulous material like this, I try to get something unique cut to maximize the beauty and value. The big ones tend to stay in my collection while I sell the smaller ones for jewelry or collectors. Even with very dark rough, small stones come out more pale-colored, so the other reason for larger stones is better color saturation.

Wait a few months for a really big stone. I have a crystal fragment that weighs in at 3,800 carats that I've sent to my master faceter. It's paler pink-purple, so it won't have this rich color, but at least 35% of it is totally flawless gem material. That means a rough chunk of about 1,300 carats. The thought is that it could yield a few large stones, and hopefully one in the 200-300 carat range. That will likely be donated to a museum for everyone to enjoy. It's special because it came from the Pala Chief Mine, which was the first source of true gem kunzite and the site of its discovery in 1902.

 

[LD]

Have just taken some very quick photos. I need to correct myself - last time I looked at this it was still showing some green. It's now absolutely colourless and is simply picking up colour from the background. I've held it up to the light, put it on different surfaces but it's not showing pink or yellow (despite what it looks like in the photo). I wonder if going pink or yellow will be the next step!!!!

Anyway, here's the now un-smelly gem for you to see!

Edit: You do realise I live in the UK don't you? Sun?? What's that then? Actually what I will do is take it on holiday in the summer and leave it out in the sun for a few hours! To be honest I don't care what happens to it so am happy to experiment! What do you think will happen in the sun? I'd presume not much.

BTW, why don't you have some smaller gems cut? I like big statement jewellery but crikey 40ct is even out of my league even as a cocktail piece!!!!!

Haha! I didn't know you were in the UK. I have lived there myself for several stretches: about 8 months in 2008 and 3 months in 2010. I was in London and I did see the sun *sometimes*!

As for your gem, it just went through the natural change of all of the manganese from Mn+4 (green) to Mn+2 (colorless). Too little total Mn content to get any real color. If you had put it in the sun right away, it would have likely gone a pale pink and then gone to colorless.

I do have smaller stones cut, but when I get a big piece of fabulous material like this, I try to get something unique cut to maximize the beauty and value. The big ones tend to stay in my collection while I sell the smaller ones for jewelry or collectors. Even with very dark rough, small stones come out more pale-colored, so the other reason for larger stones is better color saturation.

Wait a few months for a really big stone. I have a crystal fragment that weighs in at 3,800 carats that I've sent to my master faceter. It's paler pink-purple, so it won't have this rich color, but at least 35% of it is totally flawless gem material. That means a rough chunk of about 1,300 carats. The thought is that it could yield a few large stones, and hopefully one in the 200-300 carat range. That will likely be donated to a museum for everyone to enjoy. It's special because it came from the Pala Chief Mine, which was the first source of true gem kunzite and the site of its discovery in 1902.

I've always fancied a bath made out of a gemstone!

So ............ is there anything I can do with my non-smelly colourless (but nicely cut) gemstone OR do I just pretend it's supposed to be like that and set it in some homemade jewellery? BTW would it survive being heated by a handheld torch for around 8 minutes? I'm actually being serious because if it would then I'm tempted to set it in some silver or copper jewellery!

 

[Alnitak]

I've always fancied a bath made out of a gemstone!

So ............ is there anything I can do with my non-smelly colourless (but nicely cut) gemstone OR do I just pretend it's supposed to be like that and set it in some homemade jewellery? BTW would it survive being heated by a handheld torch for around 8 minutes? I'm actually being serious because if it would then I'm tempted to set it in some silver or copper jewellery!

Well, you could get it irradiated again. That would pump the color back up. I would avoid heating it like that--its likely to fracture. Dr. Rossman did tell me that he zaps his faders every five years or so; it is a repeatable process.

 

[LD]

Well it's clearly not material that's going to hold irradiation so I think I'll leave it au-natural!

Thanks for the input.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Thanks for the information. You are allowed to post your address to your website at the bottom of your posts so that people can go to visit when they want to. Check to see what other trade designated persons do. Just can't comment on other tradesmens stones or try to sell your own. Nice to have you here.


Annette

 

[Alnitak]

OK, I just got a photo late yesterday from my friend in Brazil. This past fall I got some pale blue and pale purple kunzite from Afghanistan. It was beautifully clean and I decided to have it faceted. I almost never treat any gems I get as I highly prefer natural colors. However, in this case I wanted to see if this material could be darkened and stabilized. Remember, as I indicated in my other posts in this thread, sometimes treated material can be quite stable in its color. This is most likely the case when the original crystals are high in manganese content, but have never been exposed to natural radiation that would have caused them to change to purple/pink.

The stones faceted beautifully and some of them were a lovely pale purple when complete. Others were very pale. I don't have a good photo of them prior to treatment--the one I got was very blurry. The photo below shows them after being irradiated using a Cobalt-60 source--the same used for sterilizing medical and dental tools, as well as many foods. Its completely safe, and it replicates the process that would naturally occur in the ground over millions of years. As you can see, the stones come out a lovely deep bright green--just like the stone LD has. After this photo was taken, the stones were heated to shift the color to purple-pink and help stabilize the treatment through annealing.

Ultimately, some will likely hold the color and others will not. My friend emailed me this morning to say that he thinks some will not--they are fading after just a few days. All in all, this was an interesting experiment for me. On the positive side, I've learned some interesting things and I will have some lower-cost kunzites for those who can't afford or choose not to spend the money required to buy a deeply-colored natural stone. Top color natural kunzite can sell from $150-250 a carat; given that its best in larger stones (over 20 carats) that means a nice natural kunzite can become quite expensive. Paler treated material will sell for a lot less money, so I'll have that option for folks. All of that said, I don't think I'll be getting any more pale kunzite and getting it treated. I'd rather just have fewer stones that are purely natural. Luckily I ended up with about 70 stones totaling almost 1,000 carats, so I should have plenty to last me for a while.

Finally, I may have an answer for the smell of LD's stone. It's possible that the stone had minute fractures. Kunzite is susceptible to fracturing, especially if the faceting is not done very carefully. Most likely the stone LD has fractured or had small internal fractures that only became apparent after faceting. If they reach the surface, the fractures can be filled. Typically what's used to fill the fractures is a synthetic resin or an oil like cedar wood oil, although in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan regular oils like 3-in-1 have been known to be used. I suspect that this is the case with your stone. A soak in acetone or paint thinner would likely dissolve the oil away showing the fracture(s). For this reason I wouldn't heat the stone or clean it in an ultrasonic cleaner, as it could cause the fracture to open all the way. If I'm right, the fractures will also naturally become visible at some point in the future as the volatile components of the oil slowly vaporize.

Jeff
www.facebook.com/EarthsTreasury

 

[chrono]

Are you saying that LD's stone has been clarity enhanced with some sort of cheapo oil?

 

[Alnitak]

Are you saying that LD's stone has been clarity enhanced with some sort of cheapo oil?

Sorry, yes. I should have been more clear--that's exactly what I meant.

 

[LD]

Are you saying that LD's stone has been clarity enhanced with some sort of cheapo oil?

Sorry, yes. I should have been more clear--that's exactly what I meant.

Jeff - sorry but that's not the answer. There are no fissures or cracks (I have louped it). The smell/oily substance washed off and was only on the surface!

 

[Alnitak]

Are you saying that LD's stone has been clarity enhanced with some sort of cheapo oil?

Sorry, yes. I should have been more clear--that's exactly what I meant.

Jeff - sorry but that's not the answer. There are no fissures or cracks (I have louped it). The smell/oily substance washed off and was only on the surface!

Well, it was a theory! Don't rule it out completely, though. If the filler has a refractive index close enough to that of the stone and the crack is completely filled, a loupe won't reveal it. You would need some more sophisticated tools to view the stone, either in specially polarized light or with UV lights that can activate some resins and oils.

So far I haven't heard of any reason it would have an oil coating like that. There isn't a need for oil in the irradiation process. It may have just been a random accident that got it in contact with some oil.

Jeff

 

[Alnitak]

LD, I was amazed at how these looked exactly like your stone--and all that was done here was a Cobalt-60 treatment. Too bad it doesn't hold this color--I like it!

 

[LD]

LD, I was amazed at how these looked exactly like your stone--and all that was done here was a Cobalt-60 treatment. Too bad it doesn't hold this color--I like it!

I agree they're amazing until they fade! I was so disappointed when mine literally changed before my eyes! I'd never seen it happen before so fast. I did wonder whether the smelly stuff (which was all over the cotton wool that surrounded the stone when it was shipped) was a substance to avoid the fading. If so, I have no idea what it was but the smell wasn't like an oil it was definitely petrol.

By the way, I have a microscope and various other pieces of testing equipment. This stone isn't filled!

 

[Kunzite]

I think this is fine to post since I'm not selling it. Maybe some day...but not in the near future. I just got a photo of the second stone cut for me from a 199g chunk of dark purple Oceanview kunzite. There will be one more from this original piece of crystal rough. The first one was the Superman-shield I posted here earlier. This is a 46.15 carat pear-shaped stone, faceted in a custom cut by Stephen Kotlowski (an AGTA award winning faceter and a master at his craft), Uniquely K Brilliant Multi Tier Pear Shape, 24.91 x 19.92 x 16.42mm. When I get it in my hands later this week I'll photograph it in the studio and with the other gem from this crystal.

WOW. I might take this one to the grave with me!

I always feel a little strange posting in kunzite threads but my goodness Alnitak, that is gorgeous!!

What a fascinating discussion!

 

[Alnitak]

I always feel a little strange posting in kunzite threads but my goodness Alnitak, that is gorgeous!!

What a fascinating discussion!

With a nickname like yours, you should be required to post on EVERY kunzite thread!

Thanks--glad you like the stone.

 

[Alnitak]

I finally got the second gem cut from my kunzite crystal into my hands yesterday. Here's a picture of it I took in my studio. I'm also attaching a photo of it with its friend that was cut earlier from the same piece. I'm hoping for a total of three gems from this piece, and either 2 or 3 from another one I sent to get cut--its a little less deep purple, but still very nice.

 

[minousbijoux]

That is SOME color!

 

[chrono]

Lovely! Just cautionary advice but these aren't for sale, right? We love having you around and would no want you to be on PS time out for breaking one of the PS policies for trade members.

 

[Alnitak]

Lovely! Just cautionary advice but these aren't for sale, right? We love having you around and would no want you to be on PS time out for breaking one of the PS policies for trade members.

I was pretty clear on this topic earlier. I'm not actively selling them right now, but everything I ever own is always for sale. If someone wants to ban me for that, so be it. I simply ended up here because I saw something that I could help address. I'll share what I think is interesting within what I can see are the boundaries of the rules here.

So, try to find these for sale somewhere: you won't. Call me up and offer me a fabulous price for them, and I'd sell them. Just like I'd do with my car, my house, my computer, my...you get the point.