Childhood Immunizations

[TravelingGal]

For those that don't do some shots or spread them out, that may prove difficult getting them in to public schools depending on where you live. My MIL is a school secretary in California, and there if you start the vaccines, you have to finish them. They won't give you an exemption for only some shots. They also have to be given within certian time frames to be acceptable. And if you do choose not to vaccinate, if there is any threat of a vaccinated illness at the school they will not allow your child to attend until the danger has passed. I imagine other states might have similar rules, I haven't check in AZ yet where I live, but then my son is fully vaccinated.

Never thought about that, but that totally makes sense. Preschools here will not accept children who are not up to date on their vacs. They will make an exception for religious/personal belief reasons for non vaccinated children. However, if your kid is partially vaccinated, obviously those religious reasons do not apply.

Personally I don't think that exceptions should be made at all for any kids who are not vaccinated in situations like this.

People can definitely choose to or not to vaccinate their kids--its their decision. But to enter your child into school or daycare or whatever area where there are lots of other kids, esp babies--I think that they should have to be vaccinated.

To use the kid/dog comparison yet again... when I take Portia to the groomer or to daycare she is required to have proof of her vaccs or else they won't take her.

I'm sure schools (especially private schools like preschools) would love to do that...but in this country, you are in deep doo doo if you discriminate, which this would fall into (discriminating against religious beliefts). The director at my kid's school gave me a very thinly veiled answer when I asked her about if they accepted kids who weren't vaccinated. Obviously, she also thought they shouldn't take kids who weren't.

 

[Dreamer_D]

For those that don't do some shots or spread them out, that may prove difficult getting them in to public schools depending on where you live. My MIL is a school secretary in California, and there if you start the vaccines, you have to finish them. They won't give you an exemption for only some shots. They also have to be given within certian time frames to be acceptable. And if you do choose not to vaccinate, if there is any threat of a vaccinated illness at the school they will not allow your child to attend until the danger has passed. I imagine other states might have similar rules, I haven't check in AZ yet where I live, but then my son is fully vaccinated.

Never thought about that, but that totally makes sense. Preschools here will not accept children who are not up to date on their vacs. They will make an exception for religious/personal belief reasons for non vaccinated children. However, if your kid is partially vaccinated, obviously those religious reasons do not apply.

Personally I don't think that exceptions should be made at all for any kids who are not vaccinated in situations like this.

People can definitely choose to or not to vaccinate their kids--its their decision. But to enter your child into school or daycare or whatever area where there are lots of other kids, esp babies--I think that they should have to be vaccinated.

To use the kid/dog comparison yet again... when I take Portia to the groomer or to daycare she is required to have proof of her vaccs or else they won't take her.

I agree.

 

[Pandora II]

I don't get this at all... if you are going to have an opt out for 'religious' or 'philosophical' reasons then why bother making it mandatory at all? Surely every parent that doesn't will claim one of the above.

So unfair on those children who cannot be vaccinated. Don't the schools have a duty of care towards them that should over-ride religious or philosophical sensitivities?

 

[icekid]

Where did I say that people on PS are not well-educated? Please do not assume or pick apart my post b/c you didn't interpret it correctly.

Actually my thought is this: since everyone here responding here that they did vaccinate, if one person steps in and says they didn't or are postposing they do risk being ripped to shreds. Those who don't vaccinate may feel it's better to keep their mouths shut! I figured a parenting board MAY have a broader range of opinions because MORE may step in with varying views. Not very many moms here responded to the post.

Give me a break. You told pupp to refer to parenting message boards, not original research. Sure, this may be a biased population but what do you think she is likely to find elsewhere?!

You nor other parents need to defend your decision not to vaccinate your child, but that does not mean others need be referred to non-primary sources to collect misinformation.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Where did I say that people on PS are not well-educated? Please do not assume or pick apart my post b/c you didn't interpret it correctly.

Actually my thought is this: since everyone here responding here that they did vaccinate, if one person steps in and says they didn't or are postposing they do risk being ripped to shreds. Those who don't vaccinate may feel it's better to keep their mouths shut! I figured a parenting board MAY have a broader range of opinions because MORE may step in with varying views. Not very many moms here responded to the post.

Give me a break. You told pupp to refer to parenting message boards, not original research. Sure, this may be a biased population but what do you think she is likely to find elsewhere?!

You nor other parents need to defend your decision not to vaccinate your child, but that does not mean others need be referred to non-primary sources to collect misinformation.

Quit trying to pick apart what I've said and rolling your eyes at me like a teenager (or, more fittingly, as a "kid").

 

[Puppmom]

Just to clarify - we intend to fully vaccinate. Not vaccinating is not an option. What we're weighing is the CDC recommended schedule v. an alternative schedule. I realize that this is a controversial subject and didn't expect to find a lot medical information on a message board that would help us make a decision. What I was hoping for is some parents to share HOW they made their decision on the matter (and a few of you close to the medical community chiming in wouldn't hurt ). I definitely appreciate the input in that sense but realize we need to do our own research. What's frustrating to me is not knowing what to believe...esp since I've got a bit of new mom paranoia.

Thanks Swimmer for posting those links!

 

[ChinaCat]

Hiya Pupp. Here's how I made my decision:

I personally was on the fence while preggo. I started out thinking that I had shots and was fine, as was all of my family, etc., but what IF there was a link between shots and not only autism but seizures, etc. If there was any chance of a link, I thought it would be very easy to avoid that by not vaccinating or by delaying.

So I began researching. There have been a few threads on here that have some links to official research on the subject. I read everything I could on the subject. I also talked to doctors, pedis, etc. I also have a BFF who was preggo at the same time who has NOT vaccinated her now 17 month old. She did a bunch of research on why not to vaccinate and she shared all of her research with me.

The more I researched and read, the more it became an easy decision to decide to vaccinate. The research simply wasn't there to justify not vaccinating. I did read a lot of the mom boards, and while there were many heart-breaking stories, a simple belief that a vaccine caused their child's developmental problems did not convince me. And the more I read, the more it seemed to me that the moms that were anti were offering emotional justification, but not much logical or scientific explanations.

To be honest, I kept LOOKING for one anti-vac to give me real research to back it up. I WANTED to find evidence so I could delay. I wanted a sure answer. I didn't find it.

And while the research didn't give me a compelling reason to not vaccinate, it most definitely gave me compelling reasons TO vaccinate.So for me it was an easy choice. Do I worry? Of course. Do I look at my perfectly normal child and think what if one day he just all of a sudden stops communicating? Will I blame myself? Of course it's scary. But the risks of not vaccinating far outweigh the risks of vaccinating. Not only for my child but for the other children.

I did at first consider delaying the shots. I made sure the pedi I picked was comfortable with me questioning the vac schedule and making my own decisions about it. But honestly, he was born during the swine flu outbreak last year and I was relieved to get him vaccinated. He never had any reactions to any shots, so I just kept the schedule.

I did separate the series of shots this last time because some had potential side effects for up to 2 weeks and we were about to take him out of town and I didn't want to deal with a cranky baby.

My BFF who has not vaccinated is very stressed about it. Her kid has had no problems, but she gets stuck in the house with him for weeks on end when things are out there b/c she doesn't want him to get it. She has met with Dr. Sears I believe and is about to start on some vacs. Her problem is that her in-laws are very anti-vac and none of the kids have gotten them and her husband is anti as well. It's a tough situation.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Great post, CC. Answers the question admirably.

 

[Puppmom]

Thanks, CC! It really was so nice of you to write such a thoughtful post.

 

[Dreamer_D]

To answer your question then, Puppmom, how I made my decision:

I have decided that on all health-related matters for my children I will follow the recommendations of Health Canada. It is an accross the board decision to trust those who know better than I. My thought process is that THEY, not I, have made it their life's work and their duty to read all the research and to keep up to date on all of the findings and make an informed decision based upon that when they formulate their recommendations. These are people devoted to assessing health research and also to planning large scale programmes and formulating recommendations for the population as a whole. I trust them because of that. Situations historically are rare where there was a medication or procedure recommended by Health Canada that was later proven to be dangerous. Perhaps thalydimide is the only example I can think of, and the moment it became clear the risks were present, then an announcement was made and new policies were adopted. I can only think that wrt vaccines, which have been around for a very long time, if there was any conclusive research that contraindicated the recommended schedule then the recommendations would have changed. Especially given the public interest in the issue, which is a great motivator for agencies like HC. I generally trust my government agencies, and choose to trust them here.

FWIW I also used the same rule in our decision about circumcision. It is no longer recommended by Health Canada and is not paid for by our socialized health care, though parents may opt for the procedure on their own dime still. HC made the decision to no longer consider it a medically necessary procedure for all infant boys by assessing the preponderance of evidence (something I could never do in a year of researching) and therefore it was the final word for us from a medical perspective.

I suppose the basis for my decision to follow HC guidlines in health related decisions is my knowledge of how long it takes to truly become an expert in a subject area, how long it takes to correctly assess the research and draw a conclusion, and an acknowledgement of my own ignorance in the field of medicine. No matter how much time I spend researching on the internet, it would never equal a PhD is population health or the conclusions drawn by a team of hundreds of researchers devoting their life to the subject. To think otherwise is pure ego.

I also make an accross the board decision to ignore anecdotes and personal opinions from people, and rarely to read the internet for "research". I do listen to these sources when they come my way, but even a cursory check with reputable sources always contradicts such stories. The internet never wins

 

[Mara]

Great post CC.

Dreamer made a great point too--in general I feel like the internet is sooo contradictory on almost every piece of information. You can almost always find something to support what YOU would like to believe or whatever way you are leaning. So when people trot out this article or that article I always try to take it with a grain of salt.

Also TRUST is a big thing in situations like this. Who will YOU trust? PS'ers? Parenting boards? Your pedi? Or someone else? If you can think about whose educated and informed opinion you would trust, potentially with your child's life, then you should definitely take that into account--and talk with that person. I can get 100 opinions but if none of them make me feel more comfortable one way or another, it's not really much help.

I also was thinking about this while preg. I was leaning towards delaying or spacing out vaccs. But I read enough on here from some of the more educated ladies, some of the doctors on here even, and it was definitely eye-opening. Also after we had the baby I was more worried NOT to get the vaccs than to get them. And CC is so right that you still worry even with getting the vaccs. I always worry.

Anyhow, good luck lady!

 

[swimmer]

Just to clarify - we intend to fully vaccinate. Not vaccinating is not an option. What we're weighing is the CDC recommended schedule v. an alternative schedule. I realize that this is a controversial subject and didn't expect to find a lot medical information on a message board that would help us make a decision. What I was hoping for is some parents to share HOW they made their decision on the matter (and a few of you close to the medical community chiming in wouldn't hurt ). I definitely appreciate the input in that sense but realize we need to do our own research. What's frustrating to me is not knowing what to believe...esp since I've got a bit of new mom paranoia.

Thanks Swimmer for posting those links!

Here is another interesting article with lots of linked research from a mom of an autistic boy who chooses to fully vaccinate after really struggling with this. http://networkedblogs.com/93A3h

Great posts CC and Dreamer. We had this thread before, when I was pregnant, and no one could point me towards any sound evidence that vaccinations cause harm. As CC said, those posts were about emotions rather than science. I can't comprehend the incredible need to find a reason for a baby just "slipping away" like they describe. But I don't take medical advice from Jenny McCarthy and I would rather have an autistic baby than one killed by a preventable disease. The most crushing thing to me would be if by my not vaccinating my child, he transmitted a disease to a susceptible person. Like Pandora, Mara, and Tgal pointed out... I would never be able to live with myself for having wantonly killed someone.

 

[icekid]

Just wanted to thank CC, dreamer, Mara for their thoughtful and helpful posts for pupp. Much more useful than the childish denigration around here these days! (and I am sorry for playing any part in it in your thread.)

Pupp- I hope you figure out what makes you comfortable. You are certainly a thoughtful mama

 

[Laila619]

We will be spreading out our child's vaccinations. They get so many shots at one time, and I don't care whether there is an autism link or not... I feel more comfortable giving my child smaller doses of these chemicals over a longer period of time. That's alot for a little body to handle! I also denied the Hep B and will not be giving her the Guardasil since those are sexually transmitted.

Ditto. We'll follow Sears alternate schedule.

I too will not have the baby be given Hep B vax at birth. That's completely ridiculous since Hep B is sexually transmitted. A couple had their infant son die after being given this vaccine that is considered 'routine' and no one even questions. Warning: the photos on this site are very graphic and hard to handle, but it's an important story. http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=937 WHY do we even give this to newborns when Hep B isn't airborne?

 

[Dreamer_D]

We will be spreading out our child's vaccinations. They get so many shots at one time, and I don't care whether there is an autism link or not... I feel more comfortable giving my child smaller doses of these chemicals over a longer period of time. That's alot for a little body to handle! I also denied the Hep B and will not be giving her the Guardasil since those are sexually transmitted.

Ditto. We'll follow Sears alternate schedule.

I too will not have the baby be given Hep B vax at birth. That's completely ridiculous since Hep B is sexually transmitted. A couple had their infant son die after being given this vaccine that is considered 'routine' and no one even questions. Warning: the photos on this site are very graphic and hard to handle, but it's an important story. http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=937 WHY do we even give this to newborns when Hep B isn't airborne?

It can be transmitted by blood as well as other bodily fluids. Here is a link I found about it from health canada: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vpd-mev/hepatitis-b-eng.php The key for newborns: "HBV is transmitted through percutaneous or mucosal contact with infectious biological fluids. It is transmitted from infected mothers to newborns and in settings of close personal contact through unrecognized contact with infectious bodily fluids... In Canada, like elsewhere, almost one-third of infections have no identified risk factors, despite thorough enquiries."

 

[DivaDiamond007]

For those that don't do some shots or spread them out, that may prove difficult getting them in to public schools depending on where you live. My MIL is a school secretary in California, and there if you start the vaccines, you have to finish them. They won't give you an exemption for only some shots. They also have to be given within certian time frames to be acceptable. And if you do choose not to vaccinate, if there is any threat of a vaccinated illness at the school they will not allow your child to attend until the danger has passed. I imagine other states might have similar rules, I haven't check in AZ yet where I live, but then my son is fully vaccinated.

Never thought about that, but that totally makes sense. Preschools here will not accept children who are not up to date on their vacs. They will make an exception for religious/personal belief reasons for non vaccinated children. However, if your kid is partially vaccinated, obviously those religious reasons do not apply.

Personally I don't think that exceptions should be made at all for any kids who are not vaccinated in situations like this.

People can definitely choose to or not to vaccinate their kids--its their decision. But to enter your child into school or daycare or whatever area where there are lots of other kids, esp babies--I think that they should have to be vaccinated.

To use the kid/dog comparison yet again... when I take Portia to the groomer or to daycare she is required to have proof of her vaccs or else they won't take her.

I agree.

I agree as well.

 

[swimmer]

Here is another interesting article with lots of linked research from a mom of an autistic boy who chooses to fully vaccinate after really struggling with this. http://networkedblogs.com/93A3h

Gah, it just take you to the website "A Thinking Person's Guide to Autism" when I was trying to link to a Sept post called "Why My Child With Autism Is Fully Vaccinated" sorry. Not sure if anyone clicked it, but the researched links and her struggle are both useful and poignant.

 

[Octavia]

I don't have a child yet, but vaccinations are something I've thought a lot about. Particularly about the combo shots, which make me really uncomfortable. I'm severely allergic to tetanus and almost died when they gave me the DPT shot as an infant. The doctors said it must have been the pertussis part (apparently reactions to it aren't uncommon?) so they only gave me the DT shot the next time. Same reaction. I underwent a "desensitization" to tetanus when I was five, but I'm not allowed to get boosters and I've never been able to get fully vaccinated agains pertussis because the vaccine is ALWAYS combined with tetanus. I know that what happened to me is extremely rare, but it still scares me sh--less. Even so, there's no question that my future children will be vaccinated...I just wish there was a better way to split up the vaccines so it's easier to identify the culprit on the off chance a reaction does occur.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Hi - Dumb question -- do all pediatricians advise to follow the same standard schedule? I am happy to follow pediatrician's advice, have not researched this issue AT ALL on my own, don't intend to, agree with Dreamer that I'll leave it to the experts to decide; however, I am wondering if different pediatricians might advise different schedules. I haven't looked into selecting a pediatrician yet, but I don't want to wind up with one who is recommending something different than the standard. I guess that's one of the questions I have to ask . . .

 

[Nashville]

Hi - Dumb question -- do all pediatricians advise to follow the same standard schedule? I am happy to follow pediatrician's advice, have not researched this issue AT ALL on my own, don't intend to, agree with Dreamer that I'll leave it to the experts to decide; however, I am wondering if different pediatricians might advise different schedules. I haven't looked into selecting a pediatrician yet, but I don't want to wind up with one who is recommending something different than the standard. I guess that's one of the questions I have to ask . . .

It depends on the pediatrician, but I've only ever spoken with those who recommend the standard schedule. If you're worried, once you select a doctor you can always call the office in advance and ask about their vaccination procedures. You can also get the info on what's standard for vaccinations on http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/

 

[Mara]

Hi - Dumb question -- do all pediatricians advise to follow the same standard schedule? I am happy to follow pediatrician's advice, have not researched this issue AT ALL on my own, don't intend to, agree with Dreamer that I'll leave it to the experts to decide; however, I am wondering if different pediatricians might advise different schedules. I haven't looked into selecting a pediatrician yet, but I don't want to wind up with one who is recommending something different than the standard. I guess that's one of the questions I have to ask . . .

It depends on the pediatrician, but I've only ever spoken with those who recommend the standard schedule. If you're worried, once you select a doctor you can always call the office in advance and ask about their vaccination procedures. You can also get the info on what's standard for vaccinations on http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/

Ditto. If you are in the US it's 2mo, 4mo, 6mo and then I think 12mo. But you should def ask any pedi you are considering what they suggest re: vaccinations and make sure that your feelings are inline.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Re pedis & schedules. We go to a group of pedis (there's 8 of them, but N has his "main" pedi). Anyway, the group as a whole recommends the standard schedule. I've heard of some pedi groups where's there dissent among the docs- doesn't sound like a great situation to me! So, i'd make sure that all the docs on the pedi group are in agreement on this topic.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Nashville, Thanks for the CDC link. That is very helpful.

Mara + CG, Thank you. I will def ask. I just looked up a local pedi and think I will just go with them and will see if receptionist can answer my questions. Don't think I'll be doing an official interview (has there been a thread about that?) I figure I will just switch if I do not like him.

Moment of Self-Reflection: I think it's odd that I can spend months researching cribs, hours upon hours researching cloth diapers and photographers, yet I have no interest in researching pediatricians or vaccinations. I guess it's because I know I can just switch pedi's, and I don't think I can research vaccinations beyond what is already established as standard. Ok, moment over.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hi - Dumb question -- do all pediatricians advise to follow the same standard schedule? I am happy to follow pediatrician's advice, have not researched this issue AT ALL on my own, don't intend to, agree with Dreamer that I'll leave it to the experts to decide; however, I am wondering if different pediatricians might advise different schedules. I haven't looked into selecting a pediatrician yet, but I don't want to wind up with one who is recommending something different than the standard. I guess that's one of the questions I have to ask . . .

It depends on the pediatrician, but I've only ever spoken with those who recommend the standard schedule. If you're worried, once you select a doctor you can always call the office in advance and ask about their vaccination procedures. You can also get the info on what's standard for vaccinations on http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/

Ditto. If you are in the US it's 2mo, 4mo, 6mo and then I think 12mo. But you should def ask any pedi you are considering what they suggest re: vaccinations and make sure that your feelings are inline.

If I were in the US, I think the CDC would be my own personal standard of "expert" in this area.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Moment of Self-Reflection: I think it's odd that I can spend months researching cribs, hours upon hours researching cloth diapers and photographers, yet I have no interest in researching pediatricians or vaccinations. I guess it's because I know I can just switch pedi's, and I don't think I can research vaccinations beyond what is already established as standard. Ok, moment over.

haha.. that is because those other things are of little consequence and so it gives us the illusion of control to research them ad nauseum! But when it comes to medical issues, for me personally, I do not get an illusion of control over trying to become and MD online in a week. It makes me feel less control! So bowing to the experts it is

 

[MonkeyPie]

I too will not have the baby be given Hep B vax at birth. That's completely ridiculous since Hep B is sexually transmitted. A couple had their infant son die after being given this vaccine that is considered 'routine' and no one even questions. Warning: the photos on this site are very graphic and hard to handle, but it's an important story. http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=937 WHY do we even give this to newborns when Hep B isn't airborne?

I'm not going to even bother justifying the Hep B usage but omfg. I have been crying and miserable for an hour thanks to that link. I need to learn to stay away from this crap. I am never clicking another link like this again.

 

[E B]

How did you make your decision about your child's immunizations? Have you used an alternate schedule to the CDC recommendation? Did your pediatrician try to convince you otherwise? If you work in the medical community, where do you stand?

Henry is fully vacc'ed, but we felt more comfortable with splitting them up over a few doctor visits instead of all 6 (or 7) at one time, and will continue to do this until he's in school. I felt that the recommended schedule was a lot for his little body to handle at once, and was told by the nurses at the hospital that it's suggested as it is because it assumes parents wouldn't follow through with multiple visits, whatever the reason(s). I'm a stay-at-home mom and felt the risks of him contracting/passing on any of these diseases between appointments were very, very, very low. Had we put him in daycare, we would have followed the CDC's recommendation.

We've had two pediatricians since his birth, and both have been completely supportive of our decision. Each gave their opinions of which vaccs were the most important to have, and those were given first, followed by the less important.

(We also declined the Hep B vac. at birth.)

 

[lyra]

We will be spreading out our child's vaccinations. They get so many shots at one time, and I don't care whether there is an autism link or not... I feel more comfortable giving my child smaller doses of these chemicals over a longer period of time. That's alot for a little body to handle! I also denied the Hep B and will not be giving her the Guardasil since those are sexually transmitted. No chicken pox either since thats really not serious...

I would ask that you reconsider your last statement. There actually was no chicken pox vaccine when my girls were toddlers. My oldest daughter got chicken pox and the worst part about it was that she was left with 2 prominent pox scars on her face. She is now 23 and has the most beautiful skin, but for these 2 marks that never went away. If there was a vaccine available when she was an infant, I definitely would have given it to her to save her from lifelong facial scarring.

 

[Laila619]

I too will not have the baby be given Hep B vax at birth. That's completely ridiculous since Hep B is sexually transmitted. A couple had their infant son die after being given this vaccine that is considered 'routine' and no one even questions. Warning: the photos on this site are very graphic and hard to handle, but it's an important story. http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=937 WHY do we even give this to newborns when Hep B isn't airborne?

I'm not going to even bother justifying the Hep B usage but omfg. I have been crying and miserable for an hour thanks to that link. I need to learn to stay away from this crap. I am never clicking another link like this again.

Sorry MP. It's a devastating story.

 

[Pandora II]

Is the Hep B a standard in the USA? Here it's only offered if you are in a very high risk group.

My father caught HepB when he cut himself operating on a patient and was very ill for nearly a year. My mother was vaccinated but none of us kids were at all. None of us contracted it and that was living in close contact with an infected person. We were all little at the time, my brother only a few months old. If none of us caught it, I can't see how it can be seen as a real risk for the general population.

I wouldn't have Daisy vaccinated against Hep B unless there was a serious threat of her getting it, just seems very unnecessary.