Choosing a ring designer: Hannah vs Kirsch vs Canera

[caolsen]

I feel like I'm going in circles a bit here, but maybe that's due to my man lizard brain. I completely hear and agree with everyone who has said you can't think about the setting until you have the diamond, but I have effectively done this.

It's going to be either a H&A cushion or AVC. My general setting design is chosen as well: solitaire, cathedral style, pave basket, pave band. Irrespective of the final diamond cut (H&A or AVC), carat, inclusions, etc., all three of the designers I'm looking at are capable of producting this ring and making the necessary adjustments (e.g. prong placement, basket height, melee, etc.) to make it look beautiful.

Therefore, people telling me they can't provide insignts on a designer becasue I don't have the EXACT stone purchased just doesn't compute for me. The major styling decisions that would feed into choosing a designer have all been made at this point. For those still hung up on this, then let's say for the sake of argument that my stone is the 2.12 H&A cushion from BG that I linked to previously. If this is the rock, then who should my designer be?

I think I already know that there is no quantifiable, objective way to determine this, and to a large extent I just need to choose one of the three and run with it, but I thought I should at least actively try to get opinions ahead of flipping a coin. I have gleaned a few good bits from this thread, so I do really apprecaite all the input.

I didn’t understand that you’d landed on a H&A cushion. Once you have the stone in hand, I suspect the existing portfolio of the vendors work will direct your eye to the aesthetic that will work best with you stone. You can’t go wrong with any of them, truly.

 

[caolsen]

Just another perspective: some people don't like H&A cushions because it is taking a round look and stretching out the corners. For people that choose shapes other than round because most people have a round, this is not a desired look.

In terms of light performance: one could in theory quantify the amount of leakage in a cut at one angle, but diamonds are a 3D form which moves, so there are additional preferences of the size of the facets (regular, irregular) as well as the reflection from them.

Great point, I am one of those people. I don’t like H&A that much in rounds and definitely not my cup of tea in a cushion. But that is no inditement of the cut or the execution of the cutter.

As for the ‘there must be a mathematicial approach’ to this mindset, just bear in mind - the moment you drop any stone into a setting, the light performance will change.

 

[caolsen]

I didn’t understand that you’d landed on a H&A cushion. Once you have the stone in hand, I suspect the existing portfolio of the vendors work will direct your eye to the aesthetic that will work best with you stone. You can’t go wrong with any of them, truly.

Oh, forgot. If it was me, I’d use Victor. He’s work is just impeccable.

 

[yssie]

It's pretty hard to offend me, so don't worry about being candid. I don't agree with your assessment, though. I didn't actually know a H&S cushion even existed until I started down the rabbit hole. Ultimately, I started learning about light performance, largely though videos from Jonathan and JAANPAUL, and discovered the ASET tool. I don't like the H&S cut becasue it has been marketed to me in an ad, but becasue I can see it side by side with other types of cushions and the H&A unquestionably has the best light performance. I actually came into this exercise with an open mind and the data I've seen has shaped my opinion, not the other way around.

From everything I've read, the H&A "look" is a by-product of an exceptional cut. In other words, if you're cutting a stone for absolute light performance, then it will always turn out this way (obviously only true for a small number of cuts- I don't think a H&A pear shape exists!). The H&A thing is used as a marketing tool, and as such can demand a price premium as you say, but that's not why I'm attracted to it. If a crushed ice cushion outperformed a H&A, then I'd be looking for one of these right now instead.

Contrary to your comment about opinons and facts, from all the reading I've done on this site, I would say most of what I've seen are opinions without much data backing it up. This is not uncommon, as I've spent a lot of time on watch forums and find the same thing there. I often hear people say "diamond A is better than B," but I'd actually welcome a deeper analysis as to why . . . and not just saying "B is cut better." There has to be some quantifiable way to measure this. For example, even in this thread people have chosen the 2.18 over the 2.12, but from what I've seen as the "perfect" ASET for a H&A cushion, the 2.12 more closely resembles this, so I would choose the 2.12 all other things being equal. I'd love to understand why no one likes this one . . . and then you're right, perhaps my preference will change once I'm further educated. Again, this might be my man lizard brain, but I can't be TOLD something is better, I need to be shown WHY it is.

 

[Bozman52]

Just another perspective: some people don't like H&A cushions because it is taking a round look and stretching out the corners. For people that choose shapes other than round because most people have a round, this is not a desired look.

In terms of light performance: one could in theory quantify the amount of leakage in a cut at one angle, but diamonds are a 3D form which moves, so there are additional preferences of the size of the facets (regular, irregular) as well as the reflection from them.

These are all very good points. My girlfriend doesn't have much diamond jewelry, and has explicitly said she doesn't want a round diamond becasue everyone has them. I suspect this will be the only diamond ring she ever owns. She's a nurse so she just doesn't have the opportunity to wear jewelry rgularly.

I 100% agree with the point about diamonds moving and light performance varying becasue of this. Trust me, if I could get a vendor to provide me with a rotating ASET and a Gemex analysis, I'd be extremely pleased. But this is pretty much unheard of. Throughout this process, I've become absolutely appalled with how little information jewelers think they owe customers. It's an act of God to get a standard ASET from almost anyone.

 

[Bozman52]

Super helpful response . . . there's one of you in every forum I've ever been on, so not sure why I was expecting PS to be any different.

 

[caolsen]

Super helpful response . . . there's one of you in every forum I've ever been on, so not sure why I was expecting PS to be any different.

Seriously…. Please tell me that was a joke?

 

[Bozman52]

What we are trying to say is that the ASETs for both the 2.12 and the 2.18 are within the very top cut quality range. The 2.12 ASET is NOT better than the 2.18. There is going to be no visible aspect that will make one more desirable than the other. Since the inclusion in the 2.12 might bother you, I suggested the 2.18 since the cost difference is minimal. I think the video of it is absolute perfection, the ASET is outstanding, it is extremely clean, and will be an outstanding performer. It also is perfectly square at 7.52x7.52mm. I'd buy the 2.18 I VS1 for myself if I were shopping for one. I've never seen one any better.

In addition, I respect that she wants a cushion and you are attempting to get the best possible cut. I don't know of any better cut modern cushion currently available than the BG 2.18 (or 2.12 for lower price).

There is no pm option here. Victor is pretty much known as the best with pave. There are certain things I might buy from the others, but his pave is as good as it gets. He made the ring in my avatar picture.

It's really helpful to hear this; I think BG should give you a little bonus for this rave review if I buy a stone! At least I can be confident that I'm not going to mess up horribly by buying either of these stones. I hadn't actually noticed it was perfectly square, so good spot!

 

[Bozman52]

Seriously…. Please tell me that was a joke?

yssie wanted to get real with me, I provided a thoughtful rebuttal to her very direct comments, and I get an eye roll in response . . .

Seems a bit disrespectful to me. I'm not joking, was she?

In any case, @caolsen , you have a fair point that light performance can go out the window once a stone goes into a setting, so all this work upfront could be for nothing. I also note your hat tip for Victor. He sure is accumulating a lot of wins on this thread!

 

[molecule]

These are all very good points. My girlfriend doesn't have much diamond jewelry, and has explicitly said she doesn't want a round diamond becasue everyone has them. I suspect this will be the only diamond ring she ever owns. She's a nurse so she just doesn't have the opportunity to wear jewelry rgularly.

I 100% agree with the point about diamonds moving and light performance varying becasue of this. Trust me, if I could get a vendor to provide me with a rotating ASET and a Gemex analysis, I'd be extremely pleased. But this is pretty much unheard of. Throughout this process, I've become absolutely appalled with how little information jewelers think they owe customers. It's an act of God to get a standard ASET from almost anyone.

This might be a budget blowing suggestion, but the one cutter that I have seen do this is Yorum. He has multiple different cushion cuts that can be seen on this bottom link. You would probably have to custom get a 2ct cut, but he is a master diamond cutter.

GemConcepts Signature Cut Diamonds - Modern beauty with a twist

At GemConcepts we specialize in cutting our unique own designed signature cut diamonds. View the collection

gemconcepts.net

And here's a link from his instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/CT-f_tSIU9i/

 

[Bozman52]

This might be a budget blowing suggestion, but the one cutter that I have seen do this is Yorum. He has multiple different cushion cuts that can be seen on this bottom link. You would probably have to custom get a 2ct cut, but he is a master diamond cutter.

GemConcepts Signature Cut Diamonds - Modern beauty with a twist

At GemConcepts we specialize in cutting our unique own designed signature cut diamonds. View the collection

gemconcepts.net

I actually stumbled across Yorum the other day based on some threads on this forum. I hadn't seen him mentioned that much, so I wasn't sure how many people actaully sourced stones from him. It's probably worth at least an email to see if he can help, so thanks for the prod.

 

[molecule]

I actually stumbled across Yorum the other day based on some threads on this forum. I hadn't seen him mentioned that much, so I wasn't sure how many people actaully sourced stones from him. It's probably worth at least an email to see if he can help, so thanks for the prod.

He was previously a cutter and designer for multiple diamond companies in the US and indirectly supplied many PSers their older style cuts.

 

[caolsen]

yssie wanted to get real with me, I provided a thoughtful rebuttal to her very direct comments, and I get an eye roll in response . . .

Seems a bit disrespectful to me. I'm not joking, was she?

In any case, @caolsen , you have a fair point that light performance can go out the window once a stone goes into a setting, so all this work upfront could be for nothing. I also note your hat tip for Victor. He sure is accumulating a lot of wins on this thread!

Yessir is a respected member of this community. I would submit your response was not thoughtful, it was rude. But that’s me. Good luck because I’m out…

 

[LLJsmom]

Ok, so you specifically said people need to tell you why, and I will tell you why, from a user standpoint, the fatter arrows are more desirable than the skinnier ones.
Bozman52 said:
but I think they could be improved upon (in my very amateur opinion!). For example, the 1.7 and 2.18 seem to have overly "fat" arrows, so to speak.

I too thought I wanted skinnier arrows when I was looking for my recent upgrade, and what I had to compare it with was an AGS 000 modern round brilliant (MRB), top in light performance (though not super ideal), had skinny arrows.

Once my "fatter" arrow MRB was set, I realized why people prefer the fatter arrow. A diamond on a ring on an actual hand is constantly moving. From a viewer's perspective, what you see varies and changes at every second resulting from the viewer's angle of viewing, the level and amount and type of light you get, the angle and movement of the ring itself, on a hand which itself is constantly moving. So, what you want to see is a flash, lots of flashes if you can manage it, which is maximized from uber precision cutting. The "arrow" you see is a split second flash as it crosses your line of vision. So if you can catch the blink of an arrow, that is a good thing. The bigger the arrow, the more likely you will catch the flash. The ASET image you are using to evaluate your diamond is a static image, and in real day to day life, you will NEVER see that, unless you stick your stone under a microscope and examine it. So........the bigger the arrow, the more likely you will see the beautiful flash. I am posting a pic of my gorgeous stone to show you IRL what you will see if you are lucky enough to buy a super ideal cut that will exhibit these arrows. See in the pics below? Big bright arrow, (or a portion of a bright arrow) for a split second, and it's gone. The other arrows? Can't even see them, and one dark part of another one. You don't see them all at the same time, and when you do, you want them to be big enough to actually "see". So what I thought would be an issue, turned out to be a non-issue. However, if you do NOT like these flashes, what you see in the picture below, then truly fatter arrows may not be for you.




And notice the above pics are close ups. From a distance in this pic below, even with a "fatter" arrow, you can barely see the flash.


And another reason why. As one ages, it is a fact of life that one's vision deteriorates. And even with corrective lenses, multifocal contacts, reading glasses, lasik, your vision will not be what it once was. So, the bigger the flash, the better, if you care about seeing flashes. If you hang around long enough, you will notice that as more of us diamond lovers age, we want to go up in size, if for no other reason than the bigger the diamond, the easier to see. The flash of an arrow is the same thing. So for that reason, I would recommend what you see as "fatter" arrows.

Here is link to my thread on my ring if you're interested. The setting is from SK.

Whiteflash ACA + SK 3 Stone = It's about time...

A big birthday is coming up, with my 25th anniversary next year, and I wanted a ring that would commemorate all of it. I wanted flashes so colorful, bright, and endless that they would distract me while I was working, in a setting I’ve tucked away in the back of my mind for years - Steven...

www.pricescope.com

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I thought I had contributed all I could to this thread. But people are taking you off track. You said she is looking forward to a proposal. You know she wants a cushion and to her that means a modern cushion. You’ve found two outstanding choices at BG (and I have absolutely no connection to them whatsoever and own no diamonds from them). I do however know how to choose great diamonds!

I am very familiar with Yoram as he cut the stone in my avatar picture and I have another diamond cut by him. I love Yoram. But I cannot see you getting into other style cushions and try to custom cut when you cannot control where the inclusions will be, etc. Plus, it might take several weeks to months to find rough and get a stone cut. I really urge you to stick with your decision to get a H&A cushion. It could arrive at Victor’s by the end of the week. You are looking at maybe a few weeks at the most to have a finished ring. If you custom cut, you’re buying something you can’t see at all and it will stretch the timeframe out far longer.

 

[lovedogs]

Okay, I thought I had contributed all I could to this thread. But people are taking you off track. You said she is looking forward to a proposal. You know she wants a cushion and to her that means a modern cushion. You’ve found two outstanding choices at BG (and I have absolutely no connection to them whatsoever and own no diamonds from them). I do however know how to choose great diamonds!

I am very familiar with Yoram as he cut the stone in my avatar picture and I have another diamond cut by him. I love Yoram. But I cannot see you getting into other style cushions and try to custom cut when you cannot control where the inclusions will be, etc. Plus, it might take several weeks to months to find rough and get a stone cut. I really urge you to stick with your decision to get a H&A cushion. It could arrive at Victor’s by the end of the week. You are looking at maybe a few weeks at the most to have a finished ring. If you custom cut, you’re buying something you can’t see at all and it will stretch the timeframe out far longer.

This. OP has outstanding choices. There is no reason to make things more complicated

 

[Cerulean]

Super helpful response . . . there's one of you in every forum I've ever been on, so not sure why I was expecting PS to be any different.

Sorry to chime in randomly, but I’ve been lurking on this thread and frankly everyone has been super helpful and no one owes you a detailed explanation of WHY anything is what it is, especially when you’ve been rather belligerent. People who have combined decades of experience purchasing diamonds and doing custom jewelry projects are trying to guide you, but you seem rather resolved that you are right despite having no experience doing this personally.

Theres data, sure. But data alone is not going to get you an “ideal” object of beauty. There is no objectively perfect way to make these decisions and they demand some creativity and flexibility in with both procurement and execution, and having people in your corner who have a lot experience with this is tremendously valuable. You seem to be failing to grasp that value.

This is an exciting time. You obviously care very much about making your intended happy! Which is great. But analysis paralysis is real and you are painting yourself into a corner. People will gladly share information with you here, and usually all they ask in return is a bit of courtesy.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

OP, you have a very clear idea of what you want. Those who have contributed on this thread have added value by helping you solidify your vision. That is positive. Everyone here wants the best outcomes for beautiful jewellery--we all look forward to happy stories and, of course, pictures.

That said, as with all free advice, take what you want and leave the rest. Much success to you.

cheers

 

[LLJsmom]

Sorry to chime in randomly, but I’ve been lurking on this thread and frankly everyone has been super helpful and no one owes you a detailed explanation of WHY anything is what it is, especially when you’ve been rather belligerent. People who have combined decades of experience purchasing diamonds and doing custom jewelry projects are trying to guide you, but you seem rather resolved that you are right despite having no experience doing this personally.

Theres data, sure. But data alone is not going to get you an “ideal” object of beauty. There is no objectively perfect way to make these decisions and they demand some creativity and flexibility in with both procurement and execution, and having people in your corner who have a lot experience with this is tremendously valuable. You seem to be failing to grasp that value.

This is an exciting time. You obviously care very much about making your intended happy! Which is great. But analysis paralysis is real and you are painting yourself into a corner. People will gladly share information with you here, and usually all they ask in return is a bit of courtesy.

So well said. Thank you @Cerulean.

 

[yssie]

I am disinclined to provide lengthy rebuttals when all the information you claim we are withholding is easily found in many members’ prior posts, including mine.

if you're cutting a stone for absolute light performance, then it will always turn out this way

Incorrect. If you’re cutting a stone for exceptional optical symmetry and the stone’s faceting demands an eight mains pavilion, H&A may result. If you want absolute light performance go buy a mirror. Otherwise, “cut quality” is an extremely complex subject. The reason H&A is often simply considered best, without further explanation, is that the vendors who sell stones with exceptional optical symmetry also demand a specific style and quality of light return behaviour.

BGD is one of those vendors. Every single stone that has been posted in this thread is a specimen that upholds BGD’s standards for symmetry and light return behaviour. In terms of “cut quality” none are better than the others.

Contrary to your comment about opinons and facts, from all the reading I've done on this site, I would say most of what I've seen are opinions without much data backing it up. This is not uncommon, as I've spent a lot of time on watch forums and find the same thing there.

So why are you here? Feel free to solicit expertise elsewhere.

I often hear people say "diamond A is better than B," but I'd actually welcome a deeper analysis as to why . . . and not just saying "B is cut better."

You claim that from what you’ve seen “thicker arrows are less optimal”. You have neither explained this assertion nor have you cited direct sources. I’m very familiar with all the tools and websites you reference and I know that your claim is unsupported; this may be your personal preference but it is far from fact. If you desire more detail… You can start by searching RT and going through my posts.

Again, this might be my man lizard brain, but I can't be TOLD something is better, I need to be shown WHY it is.

My patience for self-assured mansplaining, insulting PS, and arguments based on incomplete “research” is sub-zero. I wish you and your intended good luck and I don’t intend to respond to this thread again.

 

[lovedogs]

@yssie I simply adore you. That is all.

 

[Bozman52]

@LLJsmom : Thank you so much for providing all this additional context around fat vs skinny arrows, as well as the photos. As I've never personally worn a diamond ring (other than trying ones on in a store), it's near impossible for me to ascertain this type of information on my own. Seriously, massively appreciated and really great info! This definitely warms me more to the 2.18ct option much more.

@diamondseeker2006 : Yes, I am indeed being taken off track in this thread, unfortunately. Thank you for this additional perspective on Yoram. If you've had a couple stones from him, then I may have actually stumbled across him from one of your previous threads. I have very little knowledge of the custom cutting process, but it does sound like there's a lot of uncertainty in the output. Given what you can probably glean from my personality, I would not do well with this! I may still email him just to make the connection and see if there's an off chance he does have a pre-cut stone hanging around, or one about to come into stock. I like to at least know that I've expolored and eliminated all viable avenues ahead of making a decision.

@Cerulean : I've never felt that anyone owes me an explanation for anything, and this is certainly not how I'm trying to portray it, so apologies if that's how I came across. I know that people here know far more than I do and I'm trying to extract that knowledge from them beyond just their headline opinion. It's nice to know that an expert PS'er thinks one stone is better than the other, but I want to dig deeper and have them teach me why this is the case. In my own head, I've spoken to everyone with absolute courtesy and respect, as I'm very grateful for anyone who will spend their own time helping me solve my problem. Sometimes the written word expresses the incorrect feeling based on who is reading it, so if you feel I've come off as abraisive at any point, please know that it's not intentional. I would agree that I'm probably entering the analysis paralysis stage at this point and not doing myself any favors, so I may need to take a step back.

@yssie : Thanks for the additional context around cut quality and light return behavior. The "mirror" comment was actually funny, so well played there, and point taken! Regarding my rationale for thinking thinner arrows are better, I did actually state in post #24 that this was becasue of resemblance to "perfect" ASETs (souce is Whiteflash, BTW). That opens a whole other discussion around what perfect means that we probably don't need to go into, and hence why I had it in quotes. Regardless, I by no means was saying my opinion was right, I was simply trying to become more educated as to why someone would choose fatter arrows over thinner ones (which LLJsmom has graciously helped me with).

Nonetheless, your final paragraph is yet again overly disrespectful, but I guess that's just your style. Nothing I've said in this thread is "mansplaining" (emphasizing words in a sentence is certainly not this), so refreshing yourself on the definition of the word would be wise. I also don't know how I insulted PS, as I can assure you if I didn't hold this site in high regard I would not have opened up a thread on it. At any rate, this thread has established that your own tribe won't call you out on your disrespectful demeanor, but I will continue to do so as needed. If standing up for myself makes me a bad guy here, then so be it.

 

[Bonfire]

Are you any closer to making a decision on the stone?

As far as which vendor you choose to make the setting, you’ve been given good advice. I’ve worked with Victor Canera three times and his work is impeccable! He’s wonderful! However, I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the three you’ve mentioned. Good luck in your journey and please show us the finished ring!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I did just want to clarify that neither of my stones from Yoram was custom cut. Both were already cut so I could see them before committing to buy. I also am not a good candidate for custom cutting!

You can see Yoram's available stones here, and I don't see anything that would fit your parameters, but you can certainly look!

Diamonds Search

gemconcepts.net

 

[LLJsmom]

You are welcome for my response. I am glad it helped you.

With regard to you not seeing where you are mansplaining:

...Nonetheless, your final paragraph is yet again overly disrespectful, but I guess that's just your style. Nothing I've said in this thread is "mansplaining" (emphasizing words in a sentence is certainly not this), so refreshing yourself on the definition of the word would be wise.

It just so happened that I looked up the definition of mansplaining (per Google):
the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

Not far into the thread, I already sensed the mansplaining happen.

...Regarding the cushion aspect of your response, you're opening up a huge minefield that I've already gone through several times over!

...As I stated in my original post...

...there's one of you in every forum I've ever been on, so not sure why I was expecting PS to be any different.
(Every forum should be so lucky to have a member like @yssie)

...Contrary to your comment about opinons and facts, from all the reading I've done on this site, I would say most of what I've seen are opinions without much data backing it up. This is not uncommon, as I've spent a lot of time on watch forums and find the same thing there. I often hear people say "diamond A is better than B," but I'd actually welcome a deeper analysis as to why . . . and not just saying "B is cut better." There has to be some quantifiable way to measure this. For example, even in this thread people have chosen the 2.18 over the 2.12, but from what I've seen as the "perfect" ASET for a H&A cushion, the 2.12 more closely resembles this, so I would choose the 2.12 all other things being equal. I'd love to understand why no one likes this one . . . and then you're right, perhaps my preference will change once I'm further educated. Again, this might be my man lizard brain, but I can't be TOLD something is better, I need to be shown WHY it is.
I understand what you're asking. The tones comes across as demanding, entitled and condescending, even if you didn't mean it to be.

...Nonetheless, your final paragraph is yet again overly disrespectful, but I guess that's just your style. Nothing I've said in this thread is "mansplaining" (emphasizing words in a sentence is certainly not this), so refreshing yourself on the definition of the word would be wise.

...this thread has established that your own tribe won't call you out on your disrespectful demeanor, but I will continue to do so as needed.

I find this insulting, rude and sarcastic to PS and @yssie.

Yah.

 

[Bozman52]

Are you any closer to making a decision on the stone?

As far as which vendor you choose to make the setting, you’ve been given good advice. I’ve worked with Victor Canera three times and his work is impeccable! He’s wonderful! However, I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the three you’ve mentioned. Good luck in your journey and please show us the finished ring!

Thanks for yet another nod to Victor! Clearly he has gained quite a following and many people are happy with his work. I've not decided definitively as of yet. I will say that my initial interactions with Maytal were a bit more in depth than the others, as we've had several email interactions, so that counts for something. At any rate, it does sound like I can't go wrong with any of the three, so if nothing else this thread has provided absolute confirmation that I'm on the right track.

 

[Bozman52]

I did just want to clarify that neither of my stones from Yoram was custom cut. Both were already cut so I could see them before committing to buy. I also am not a good candidate for custom cutting!

You can see Yoram's available stones here, and I don't see anything that would fit your parameters, but you can certainly look!

Diamonds Search

gemconcepts.net

Noted on the clarification; I had incorrectly asumed both of yours were cut to order. I apprecaite you looking into his stones for me. I figure there may be an off chance that he doesn't keep his webiste 100% up to date, so I'm still considering sending an email just to see. I just need to find time to write it!

 

[Bozman52]

You are welcome for my response. I am glad it helped you.

With regard to you not seeing where you are mansplaining:

...Nonetheless, your final paragraph is yet again overly disrespectful, but I guess that's just your style. Nothing I've said in this thread is "mansplaining" (emphasizing words in a sentence is certainly not this), so refreshing yourself on the definition of the word would be wise.

It just so happened that I looked up the definition of mansplaining (per Google):
the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

Not far into the thread, I already sensed the mansplaining happen.

...Regarding the cushion aspect of your response, you're opening up a huge minefield that I've already gone through several times over!

...As I stated in my original post...

...there's one of you in every forum I've ever been on, so not sure why I was expecting PS to be any different.
(Every forum should be so lucky to have a member like @yssie)

...Contrary to your comment about opinons and facts, from all the reading I've done on this site, I would say most of what I've seen are opinions without much data backing it up. This is not uncommon, as I've spent a lot of time on watch forums and find the same thing there. I often hear people say "diamond A is better than B," but I'd actually welcome a deeper analysis as to why . . . and not just saying "B is cut better." There has to be some quantifiable way to measure this. For example, even in this thread people have chosen the 2.18 over the 2.12, but from what I've seen as the "perfect" ASET for a H&A cushion, the 2.12 more closely resembles this, so I would choose the 2.12 all other things being equal. I'd love to understand why no one likes this one . . . and then you're right, perhaps my preference will change once I'm further educated. Again, this might be my man lizard brain, but I can't be TOLD something is better, I need to be shown WHY it is.
I understand what you're asking. The tones comes across as demanding, entitled and condescending, even if you didn't mean it to be.

...Nonetheless, your final paragraph is yet again overly disrespectful, but I guess that's just your style. Nothing I've said in this thread is "mansplaining" (emphasizing words in a sentence is certainly not this), so refreshing yourself on the definition of the word would be wise.

...this thread has established that your own tribe won't call you out on your disrespectful demeanor, but I will continue to do so as needed.

I find this insulting, rude and sarcastic to PS and @yssie.

Yah.

I was secretly hoping we could put this part of the thread to bed and move on, but I do sincerely appreciate you taking time to point these things out. The same analysis could be done to yssie's posts and you'd find very similar language, though, so this does seem overly one sided.

It's extremely difficult to capture tone in written language; the same sentence can be read by two different people and each can take home a different message based on their own biases. My default is to write in an abrupt, direct way and my intended tone is not always received the way I want it to be, so I am somewhat self-aware of this. My tone has obvioulsy been misinterpreted on several occasions, and this has created some conflict, but it was not my intent.

My intention has never been to speak in a condecending/patronizing way to anyone. That being said, there were some very intentional shots over the bow- on both sides- between yssie and me. These comments were intentionaly loaded, but I wasn't attemping to explain anything, so would therefore be outside of "mansplaining."

It feels to me that "mansplaining" has become a bit of a catch-all for when someone doesn't like the way things are phrased. It feels like the sheer act of me challenging an opinion (or asking for information in a different way) is being conflated with being condecending. Nonetheless, your perception is your reality, so if you feel I was condecending, then nothing I say now will likely change that, so I suppose I need to rethink how I phrase things moving forward. I do apprecaite your feedback.

In the end, I'm genuinely here to learn more about diamonds/rings. I've received some really hepful advice from numerous people, yourself included, and I'm very thankful for this. It's disappointing that this thread has gone sideways, but it has been somewhat enlightening nonetheless. It's clear that the dynamic of PS is far different to other forums I've been in, so I guess I'll need to alter my approach if I want to carry on here. At any rate, I do still maintain that it's hypcritical to not uphold any accountability on yssie for rude things said on that side.

At the end of the day, if anyone responds to my post wtih an eye roll (on any forum), then they're going to get a pretty frosty comment in response. That shouldn't seem unreasonable, as I would expect the same if I'd done that to someone. Yes, now everyone chip in and keep the thread going with eye roll replies, this is your freebee . . .

 

[LLJsmom]

I was secretly hoping we could put this part of the thread to bed and move on, but I do sincerely appreciate you taking time to point these things out. The same analysis could be done to yssie's posts and you'd find very similar language, though, so this does seem overly one sided.

It's extremely difficult to capture tone in written language; the same sentence can be read by two different people and each can take home a different message based on their own biases. My default is to write in an abrupt, direct way and my intended tone is not always received the way I want it to be, so I am somewhat self-aware of this. My tone has obvioulsy been misinterpreted on several occasions, and this has created some conflict, but it was not my intent.

My intention has never been to speak in a condecending/patronizing way to anyone. That being said, there were some very intentional shots over the bow- on both sides- between yssie and me. These comments were intentionaly loaded, but I wasn't attemping to explain anything, so would therefore be outside of "mansplaining."

It feels to me that "mansplaining" has become a bit of a catch-all for when someone doesn't like the way things are phrased. It feels like the sheer act of me challenging an opinion (or asking for information in a different way) is being conflated with being condecending. Nonetheless, your perception is your reality, so if you feel I was condecending, then nothing I say now will likely change that, so I suppose I need to rethink how I phrase things moving forward. I do apprecaite your feedback.

In the end, I'm genuinely here to learn more about diamonds/rings. I've received some really hepful advice from numerous people, yourself included, and I'm very thankful for this. It's disappointing that this thread has gone sideways, but it has been somewhat enlightening nonetheless. It's clear that the dynamic of PS is far different to other forums I've been in, so I guess I'll need to alter my approach if I want to carry on here. At any rate, I do still maintain that it's hypcritical to not uphold any accountability on yssie for rude things said on that side.

At the end of the day, if anyone responds to my post wtih an eye roll (on any forum), then they're going to get a pretty frosty comment in response. That shouldn't seem unreasonable, as I would expect the same if I'd done that to someone. Yes, now everyone chip in and keep the thread going with eye roll replies, this is your freebee . . .

I do agree with you that tones from different forums can differ widely. I am a participant in some watch forums and my comments which seem to me very innocent can be turned into jokes that are very distasteful and offensive to me. In order to avoid that and continue to participate in the forum, I state my opinions in a very neutral manner and choose my words wisely. I appreciate that you recognize tone and intent can be construed differently from what you intended, and that may be something you would be helpful to be more aware of while posting on PS. Also if you are interested, members’ historical posts can be found if you right click on a members avatar and see their past posts and threads. That is a good way to do research as well. I am currently learning from @yssie about pearls. I am a complete novice but I know she has posted many educational posts about pearls so I have been looking up those threads and studying. Many years ago she has posted just as many threads about diamonds, super ideal cuts, cut quality, H&A, etc. Her explanations right now may not be pages long the way they used to be, but the point is is that she knows what she’s talking about. If there is something you don’t understand, something specific that doesn’t make sense to you, it is fine to ask. It’s a matter of how the questions are phrased. You don’t need to defend yourself while asking the question.

I’m not an expert in technical areas. I have seen my share of super ideal and non-super ideals over the past 10 years (a very short diamond history compared to many others here), but I am not among those who understand the physics, the geometry, the numbers. My very basic and rudimentary understanding is that there can be stones that are “called” H&A that are not super ideal, and that there is no industry standard in terms of actual cut parameters that H&A diamonds need to fall into for a diamond seller to call their diamonds H&A. I might be wrong. The issue can be quite complex. I just looked up "H&A" in the search function and found a recent thread discussing H&A stones. Reading this might help give you some context about your comments about H&A and other people's responses.

H&A Cut

Hello, I am confused about identifying a true H&A diamond. Common advice is to use a H&A scope and if the images are crisp (both hearts and arrows views) then it’s a H&A cut. However I have viewed a few diamonds through such a scope and although the images appear crisp, the diamond is not...

www.pricescope.com

My point is that there is a lot of information to be found on PS. People do try to answer questions. Not every expert weighs in on every thread because there are so many. The search function is your friend. If you are very curious about a particular topic, you can start a new thread and ask and maybe other experts will answer more extensively. Or again, use the search function. There are many threads about H&A and light performance.

And I just noticed your eyeroll at the bottom of your most recent comment to me. I don't know why you feel the need to eyeroll at me, but I am NOT going to send you one in return. My response to you was to explain where I felt you were mansplaining when you said you did not. It is all about perception anyway. You felt you were not. However, multiple members felt like you were rude and condescending. Yes, I do think it is worth your giving your choice of words more consideration.

And also, I don't know if this you or if this is due to your participation in watch forums, but warning people that you will give "tit for tat" per your comment below...

...if anyone responds to my post wtih an eye roll (on any forum), then they're going to get a pretty frosty comment in response. That shouldn't seem unreasonable, as I would expect the same if I'd done that to someone

is EXACTLY the kind of attitude that will cause people to STOP responding to your posts. If you read carefully, the people who do stop responding will comment on what they find offensive and just stop responding. They don't try to insult you. See @Cerulean's response at #47.

I'm sorry that you would "expect the same if I'd done that to someone". I think a lot of people on THIS forum do NOT retaliate. That is why I responded to you with information even though I felt you were mansplaining. That is why @diamondseeker2006 kept providing feedback and helpful responses. That is why @Bonfire and @canuk-gal responded nicely. A lot of people will want to continue to assist you because we know you come from a good place. You want to make you fiance happy and are doing your best to do so. We as a forum applaud that and are very supportive of that.

However, if you come in hot, warning people to expect retaliation, it turns many people away. If you continue on PS, it worth your consideration, if for no other reason to keep getting responses to your questions.

 

[LightBright]

I’m late to the thread. I don’t think we know if this is supposed to be a surprise to your girlfriend or not. Is the diamond supposed to be a surprise? Is the setting supposed to be a surprise?

How old is your girlfriend? Antique style cuts are hotter than hot right now, especially with the young generation. The setting you want is suitable for both a modern H&A cushion or an antique style cushion.

Splintery, thin facets in H&A cut style is a preference. There is no scientific reason that a superideal cut diamond can’t have either skinny arrows or chunky arrows. LLJsMom is correct in saying that as many jewelry lovers age, they start to appreciate both larger size diameters and fatter arrows so they can see them better. Because of limited supply of superideal diamonds right now, you may just have to take what you can get, and your choice of skinny or fat facets is a mute point (any superideal coming out of BGD will be exceptional).

That said, if you pick a diamond that YOU prefer, are you sure your girlfriend will prefer it? Does she know what she wants?

If the engagement ring is truly up to you, then I believe this is a simple task because you say you want an H&A. Buy what you like in the cushion shape that your girlfriend likes, and that seems to be a modern H&A cushion, and have the setting you love made for it. I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the three designers via Show Me Threads here. If you cannot tell the difference between the three designers, then I think Victor Canera is a great choice because he is very consistent, has impeccable customer service, is generous with his time, is approachable and professional, and he makes the style of ring you want, beautifully.

Good luck with your choices, I can tell the outcome is extremely important to you. I’m excited to see what direction you go in.