Choosing a Sapphire Ain't Easy..............

[LD]

I do think you may be over-analysing the stone (especially when you're only viewing it in poor lighting) - poor gem!!!! There is no right or wrong about extinction. Some can tolerate a little, others can't tolerate it at all. From your posts I think you may be in the latter camp. If so, then send this one back BUT be warned, trying to find a round blue sapphire of the dimensions and colour you want PLUS no extinction is going to take a while.

Having said that, if it was the gem for you then I'm not sure you would be over-analysing. If I get an "OMG" moment when I open the package and that never goes away, it's a keeper! I have done this even with gems that have "issues" For example I have a blue round sapphire that has "issues" but I wouldn't part with it for anything - it's my baby!

On the other hand, there are gems that are slow-burners. I'll open the package and go "mmmm ok" but over a few days I find I can't send it back.

The acid test is if I package it up to send back and then start hesitating!

 

[chrono]

This is a tough one because I'm not sure if the OP is over analyzing or starting to understand gems and training his eyes. Novice eyes see everything as fantastic but once trained, realize that what was once seen as beautiful really isn't.

 

[LD]

This is a tough one because I'm not sure if the OP is over analyzing or starting to understand gems and training his eyes. Novice eyes see everything as fantastic but once trained, realize that what was once seen as beautiful really isn't.

I don't disagree Chrono but if somebody is focusing this much on the negatives then it's probably time to walk away from the stone (which is what I was trying to say in a very clumsy sort of way)! My concern is finding another round sapphire without extinction. I just looked at mine again and it does have a touch - admittedly not much - but it still has some.

 

[Sapphire1]

@ minousbijoux, Chrono and LD :

I appreciate all your feedback, and now I'm even more conflicted lol!

@ minousbijoux
"I think you made the right decision, as the stone was not as nice in hue as I thought it would be based on your description. I notice enough deficiency in saturation as to result in a slightly greyish stone. Please bring whatever other contenders you find, and we'll keep our eyes peeled as well. "
Will do, and I appreciate you keeping your eyes open for me

@ LD
"I do think you may be over-analysing the stone (especially when you're only viewing it in poor lighting) - poor gem!!!! There is no right or wrong about extinction. Some can tolerate a little, others can't tolerate it at all. From your posts I think you may be in the latter camp. If so, then send this one back BUT be warned, trying to find a round blue sapphire of the dimensions and colour you want PLUS no extinction is going to take a while."
I hear you LD. Yes, poor gem You start to get attached to these Sapphires, just like with Black opal.

@ Chrono
"This is a tough one because I'm not sure if the OP is over analyzing or starting to understand gems and training his eyes. Novice eyes see everything as fantastic but once trained, realize that what was once seen as beautiful really isn't."
Yes, it is a combination of both, with some OCD kicking in

It is sunny out today, and I've taken a few picks while inside, near a window through a screen, as it is extremely Windy out today, and the last thing I need is for this Stone to fly away like a dandelion
With this set of photos, besides being in the Sunlight, I've used my Panasonic Lumix camera, as compared to using my S3 camera for the previous pics.
I've also rotated my hand in certain shots.

These picks hopefully will give you guys a little more to go on regarding this stone, and resolve the extinction issues as to whether it is too extinct, not extinct, or a little extinct. Sounds like I'm talking about Dinosaurs. Back to Sapphires

 

[chrono]

There are nice areas of contrast but still some darkness. Overall, it looks like a nice blue sapphire but the saturation is lacking to be demanding such a high price. Tone is just right. Perhaps it is your photography but it reminds me more of spinel rather than sapphire.

 

[minousbijoux]

Perhaps it is your photography but it reminds me more of spinel rather than sapphire.

Agreed. This is because most blue spinels I've seen are slightly lacking in saturation and consequently have a greyish aspect to them. But I happen to know there are some beautiful blue spinels out there **cough, cough Jewelfreak, Chrono cough, cough**

 

[Sapphire1]

I have been searching online regarding sapphires intensely.
I found this stone @ $4500/ct.
http://www.rwwise.com/products/id%7C1669
While it is too small for me, I have linked to it because it appears that pricing can be very subjective, as it usually is, depending on the item, the seller etc.
But it raises questions as to what I can expect to pay for the quality I'm looking for in my price range.
For instance, if I were to compare the linked stone to my stone in person, I may find that my stone is of like quality, lesser quality or better quality.
In addition, if the linked to stone is of better quality, it would be of even a greater per carat price than $4500 per once it reaches the over 3ct mark, and the stone has not reached the 3ct weight yet.
Maybe I'm getting a lot for the money I'm paying for my stone if I were to purchase it, or maybe I would be paying too much.
Anyway, I'll get a better idea once I have someone view it in person maybe later today, and also as been said, see some other stones and what their price ranges are.

 

[chrono]

I'm sorry to say that the general PS opinion of that vendor's pricing is that he must be delusional. It is a very poor example of market pricing but an excellent example of vendors free to set however high the $/ct they wish.

 

[LD]

I'm sorry to say that the general PS opinion of that vendor's pricing is that he must be delusional. It is a very poor example of market pricing but an excellent example of vendors free to set however high the $/ct they wish.

+1

The fact of the matter is that vendors price how they want. If you look for a sapphire that is $4,500 per carat then you'll see dreadful examples, excellent examples and then those that you wonder whether the vendor is simply bananas!

My advice is don't search by looking at price. Search by looking at colour/clarity/treatments. I bet if you do it that way (and ignore the prices), you'll come in under budget.

I want to show you something ............. this is a sapphire that I bought many years ago. It's 1.16ct so WAY smaller than I was looking for. The vendor (who is no longer in business) photographed it to show all of it's blemishes. However, he told me that the inclusions weren't visible with the naked eye. I decided to have a look at it - and it was well under $1,000 (with a lab report). When it arrived, my heart missed a few beats and then got very very very fast indeed! The colour screamed at me! It has some extinction as you can see, but hardly anything. It also holds its colour in every lighting. Below are photographs in daylight and incandescent lighting. So that's what I mean about shopping around and ignoring price. You will end up in the right place at the right time BUT it takes patience and you will have to compromise - my compromise was on size.

 

[Sapphire1]

I hear you guys about Outrageous pricing.
Unlike Diamonds, where there is a certain price structure to compare with, apples to apples, Sapphire appears to be like the Wild, Wild West.
@ LD, that is a very pretty stone.
I assume the last pic is taken in incandescent lighting,and the stone holds its color beautifully. Something for me to keep in mind regarding stones that I'll be viewing.
If I have to give something up, t most likely won't be size, as this will be for a pinky ring for myself, and 8.5mm is most likely the minimum I'll go without the stone looking too small.
Although I might go to 8mm if the stone was very beautiful.

 

[Lula]

This is a tough one because I'm not sure if the OP is over analyzing or starting to understand gems and training his eyes. Novice eyes see everything as fantastic but once trained, realize that what was once seen as beautiful really isn't.

This is so true (speaking as a novice )
LD, that is an amazing sapphire. Simply amazing.

Sapphire1, I think you are right to return the stone if you have doubts. From your photos, I agree with minous on the saturation.

I've been looking for a sapphire for many years, and have looked both on line and through a few local jewelers. Interestingly, a few years ago, a friend of mine and I went to a trunk show for a gem wholesaler who supplies stones to several vendors who post on Pricescope. I was really excited to see this company's sapphires, and was hugely disappointed to discover that all of the sapphires available at the show were really dark blue (similar to the RW stone) and very expensive. Maybe most people still believe that sapphires should be the color of the Diana-Kate sapphire, and that's why there's so much dark material out there at outrageous prices.

 

[Sapphire1]

Good point Lula about the Royal stone.
From what I heard regarding that stone, I was surprised to learn that that sapphire was far from ideal.
In fact, with all the Royals money, I'm very surprised that a Kashmir of the best quality wasn't purchased for Diana to begin with. Looks like whomever sold that sapphire to the Royal Family got over, so to speak.
I do hope that I don't have to wait years to find the 'right' stone. One of the reasons is that I may not have the same budget by then. Yes,Sapphire prices may go down or my budget may increase, but the way the economy is doing, I don't think my budget will increase

 

[Lula]

Good point Lula about the Royal stone.
From what I heard regarding that stone, I was surprised to learn that that sapphire was far from ideal.
In fact, with all the Royals money, I'm very surprised that a Kashmir of the best quality wasn't purchased for Diana to begin with. Looks like whomever sold that sapphire to the Royal Family got over, so to speak.
I do hope that I don't have to wait years to find the 'right' stone. One of the reasons is that I may not have the same budget by then. Yes,Sapphire prices may go down or my budget may increase, but the way the economy is doing, I don't think my budget will increase

There is so much misinformation out there about the Kate-Diana stone that it is almost comical (e.g., that it's 18 carats! No, it's probably less than half that size). Photos can be deceiving, of course, but every photo I've seen of it shows a very dull, dark stone. I, too, have wondered why a better stone was not found for her ring, but the story is she chose it from a tray of rings, so who knows what Diana passed up in favor of that sapphire.

I hear you on the budget -- in the time I've been looking, sapphires have jumped in price. And the number of heavily treated stones seems to have increased, too. I have no doubt you'll find a good one if you're willing to invest the time and energy it takes to look. And being able to vet stones here is invaluable. And with each stone you're training your eye -- gem hunting is like a sport with all the training and practice required.

 

[Sapphire1]

@ Lula
If I had the money, it would be much easier for me to purchase a Fancy Intense Blue Diamond of which a 3ct stone will suffice
But then the thrill of the hunt would be missed.... maybe.
So true about training the eye and the invaluable feedback from the members here.

 

[Lula]

@ Lula
If I had the money, it would be much easier for me to purchase a Fancy Intense Blue Diamond of which a 3ct stone will suffice
But then the thrill of the hunt would be missed.... maybe.
So true about training the eye and the invaluable feedback from the members here.

Oh, if only we had the money, blue diamonds of a certain size would be a wonderful solution!

 

[Sapphire1]

Haven't posted in a while, but I've still been searching.
I've seen a few more rounds, and cushions but nothing great.
Today I picked up a:
Cushion
3.03ct
7.66x7.24
Depth - unknown
Med-med dark (I think )
Saturation very nice
No Window
$2000/ct

The color is very nice under the worst of light I have which is CFL incandescent. I'm told it is Unheated, but if I choose to purchase the stone, the purchase would be contingent on verification of no treatment via the AGL cert. The dealer is across the street from AGL.
I'll post a few pics I took with my cph in a while, once I share them with Dropbox, then get on my pc.

A couple of comments I have re the stone:
- the culet is off center, and the stone looks lopsided from the bottom. But from the top, you can't tell.
- from the bottom, there appears to be a small indentation near the girdle, on the pavilion, which can be seen under 10x magnification.
The indentation has 'rings' in it like rings of a tree. May be natural or machine marks.
I know it is most important what the stone looks like from the top, but I want to know if what I mentioned would reduce the carat price.

Pics to follow.

 

[Sapphire1]

Here are some pics I took yesterday in CFL incandescent light.
My modem was down , hence the picture posting delay.
As a side note, I got to view the stone in indirect sunlight today, and the stone looks better in Incandescent light, if that's possible.
In sunlight, the stone does not look that saturated. I'll post some of those later on.










Edit:
Sapphire is going back. 'Nice' Window in stone. Very visible when in indirect sunlight.
Poor saturation, most likely due from poor cutting.
I'll post a couple of pics.



Sapphire hunt continues.................

Indirect sunlight pics:

 

[airplay355]

I think you can tell the cutlet is off center from the top because its making that half of the stone appear darker since it's so deep. I thought it was zoning but I bet it's just extinction from one side of the stone being super deep and the other side being shallow.

 

[Sapphire1]

Yes, 'slightly' off center.
One side of the pavilion looks like a ski slope
The darkness wasn't as apparent in the incandescent lighting as it is in daylight.

 

[LD]

Yes, 'slightly' off center.
One side of the pavilion looks like a ski slope
The darkness wasn't as apparent in the incandescent lighting as it is in daylight.

Good decision to send it back. It looks gorgeous in (which I think is) your direct sunlight pictures. In others it's not good. That culet is more than slightly off - it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. Look at your second or third photo and draw a line up through the centre of the gem. I reckon this was cut by someone who was sitting on a steep hill.

 

[Sapphire1]

Yes, 'slightly' off center.
One side of the pavilion looks like a ski slope
The darkness wasn't as apparent in the incandescent lighting as it is in daylight.

Good decision to send it back. It looks gorgeous in (which I think is) your direct sunlight pictures. In others it's not good. That culet is more than slightly off - it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. Look at your second or third photo and draw a line up through the centre of the gem. I reckon this was cut by someone who was sitting on a steep hill.

Almost swallowed my tongue cracking up about the 'Hill' reference
That's why I put the word 'slightly' in () as that culet was some piece of work

I like to get the stones home where I can take my time looking at them, as compared to viewing them in front of the Seller. This way I can take out my loupe, look under different lighting, etc. and take my time.
I've been able to turn down a few stones then and there, but with some I need more time to evaluate.
The color looked nice in the fluorescent lighting of his office, although I noticed the stone had a 'glassy' appearance, if that's a correct term. That was most likely due to poor saturation and/or cutting.

Yes, the last 3 pics were in indirect Sunlight.

The search continues..........

 

[LD]

It's ok, I understand why you had used quote marks but it tickled me that you used that word!

You are really being sensible in your approach and I love that you're taking your time to evaluate each stone. I can't tell you how wise that is. It took me years to find my blue sapphire. I mean years (that's not an exaggeration). It will be out there, just take your time and it will find you.

 

[chrono]

Sorry about how disappointing the stone is. Colouration is mediocre and even though I'm not a stickler for precision faceting, this one is too "off" even for me. I hope the next one will be IT.

 

[Sapphire1]

Thanks LD
Years?
As they say, 'Patience is a Virtue.'
No rush here to just 'Settle' on a stone, which I'm spending my hard earned money on, which I'll hopefully be spending many years with.
Let the Sapphires rain upon me

Hi Chrono.
Yes, that culet may go down in the record book as the most off centered culet ever to be perpetrated upon a natural sapphire

 

[chrono]

Unfortunately, I've seen worse cutting. Yes, off centered worse than this.