Clear Cut Gems: Experiences?

[FrekeChild]

I'm really disgusted with the new pictures.

 

[LoversKites]

And the faceting is so nice! What a shame that this is what some sellers do.

I hope it is okay, but I email them this thread just in case they want to say something.

 

[katharath]

I'm really disgusted with the new pictures.

I must admit that I find it off putting. I'm unfamiliar with the seller - but this makes me uncomfortable, looking at it from a buyer's perspective. I would be questioning all of the seller's pics.

 

[FrekeChild]

Hmmm...

I posted a link to his website several hours ago with the second round pictures up (http://www.clearcutgems.com/sapphire/s4.html) to his thread with the new pictures, and no other comment. He has since deleted the link I posted and posted the following:

"Clear Cut Gems This stone has no treatment and was re photographed with the correct white balance and corrections to show the correct color as it photographed blue before,it has very slight blue but barely noticeable."

I shall attach screen shots of the above.

 

[FrekeChild]

Also, unrelated to the sapphire saga above, I have also had two separate people private message him about one stone on the same day, and they were given two very different prices. He does not post prices publicly to Facebook.

At this point, I would not do business with Clear Cut Gems, and anyone else who does, I would recommend they do so at their own risk.

 

[royalstarrynight]

Thanks Freke for doing your due diligence and honestly talking about this vendor.
I know our community appreciates it! I hope he stops altering the color of that stone and just prices it accordingly instead of playing with photoshop.

It seems like a pretty stone in it's own right...if it was advertised that way, there would be much less disappointment.

 

[chrono]

Freke,
Have you discussed the colour issue with CCG openly? This is more important to me because there might be return and tax considerations for those who are outside the USA. The difference in pricing to individual customers isn't a new thing and has been brought up in CS many times. Often times, regular or old time customers tend to be given a better discount. That said, some vendors prefer to be fair and charge a "one price for all customers". It is up to the vendor how they choose to run their business and it is up to us to decide whether we support or don't support their policies by buying or avoiding them.

 

[chrono]

Normalized the pictures... as this is never fair to the potential buyer.

Freke,
Does it look like these IRL?

 

[LoversKites]

Do you think they should be taken off the trusted vendors list???

 

[pregcurious]

That list is more like the "some of us have had luck" list. I think we should ask Ella to retitle it?

 

[T L]

Do you think they should be taken off the trusted vendors list???

I'd give him another chance to be honest. He's not the only vendor on that list that greatly enhances the color of their gems in photos, and some that did in the past have changed their ways due to constructive criticism.

I looked at his FB page and there were some really unsaturated photos of certain gems. Perhaps he should also be given a chance to defend himself, and to make changes to his photos if they are deemed unrealistic????

If he's on that list, then someone had a favorable experience with him. Unfortunately for Freke, this did not happen, but at least she was able to return the gem, with what I assume, no hassles (I hope!).

 

[T L]

That list is more like the "some of us have had luck" list. I think we should ask Ella to retitle it?

Or a note above the list stating that these are the vendors that people have had positive experiences with, and perhaps this might not be the same for everyone. At the very least, these vendors should have a good return policy, as I think that's more important than anything. If you don't like an item, you should not have a huge hassle to return it, and refunds should be prompt. JMO.

 

[FrekeChild]

Freke,
Have you discussed the colour issue with CCG openly? This is more important to me because there might be return and tax considerations for those who are outside the USA. The difference in pricing to individual customers isn't a new thing and has been brought up in CS many times. Often times, regular or old time customers tend to be given a better discount. That said, some vendors prefer to be fair and charge a "one price for all customers". It is up to the vendor how they choose to run their business and it is up to us to decide whether we support or don't support their policies by buying or avoiding them.

No. I don't feel as though he'd be receptive to what I have to say.

Yes. I agree. However, both of the people asking for prices from him had never bought from him before. So I thought that was weird.

 

[FrekeChild]

Thanks Freke for doing your due diligence and honestly talking about this vendor.
I know our community appreciates it! I hope he stops altering the color of that stone and just prices it accordingly instead of playing with photoshop.

It seems like a pretty stone in it's own right...if it was advertised that way, there would be much less disappointment.

Yes, it is a pretty stone, and the cutting is good, with excellent polish, but I know after seeing the original super blue pictures, that I was disappointed when I opened the box. If I had bought it based on the new super saturated purple pictures, I would also be disappointed, because the stone just doesn't display those colors in any lighting situations.

So, I think he's shooting himself in the foot. He's opening himself up to a couple things here by altering the color of the stone for pictures:
1. Returns, so lost money in shipping.
2. Unhappy customers. If a stone is so wildly different from his pictures, why should I trust that the next one will actually resemble the real stone in color?

 

[FrekeChild]

Normalized the pictures... as this is never fair to the potential buyer.

Freke,
Does it look like these IRL?

I don't think it's quite that gray, but these altered pictures are more realistic than the super saturated blue and purple ones.

Here are more pics I took in a variety of lighting situations.

 

[FrekeChild]

Couple more.

 

[chrono]

So, I think he's shooting himself in the foot. He's opening himself up to a couple things here by altering the color of the stone for pictures:
1. Returns, so lost money in shipping.
2. Unhappy customers. If a stone is so wildly different from his pictures, why should I trust that the next one will actually resemble the real stone in color?

There are several vendors in the CS vendors list that I refuse to buy from for the above 2 reasons but they remain there because others have had good experiences.

 

[minousbijoux]

So, I think he's shooting himself in the foot. He's opening himself up to a couple things here by altering the color of the stone for pictures:
1. Returns, so lost money in shipping.
2. Unhappy customers. If a stone is so wildly different from his pictures, why should I trust that the next one will actually resemble the real stone in color?

There are several vendors in the CS vendors list that I refuse to buy from for the above 2 reasons but they remain there because others have had good experiences.

+1 - the list is based on, for lack of a better term, the consensus of experiences of the PS community. It is right for Freke to bring this up (and I certainly appreciate the thorough photo documentation in various lighting situations, Freke), and for others to be cautioned by Freke's experience. That said, others have had good experiences with him, so he should stay on the list.

I echo TL's approach as well that we would welcome it if Lloyd wanted to provide any explanation or relevant info on this in a non-argumentative way.

 

[marymm]

So, I think he's shooting himself in the foot. He's opening himself up to a couple things here by altering the color of the stone for pictures:
1. Returns, so lost money in shipping.
2. Unhappy customers. If a stone is so wildly different from his pictures, why should I trust that the next one will actually resemble the real stone in color?

There are several vendors in the CS vendors list that I refuse to buy from for the above 2 reasons but they remain there because others have had good experiences.

Same for me.

 

[T L]

So, I think he's shooting himself in the foot. He's opening himself up to a couple things here by altering the color of the stone for pictures:
1. Returns, so lost money in shipping.
2. Unhappy customers. If a stone is so wildly different from his pictures, why should I trust that the next one will actually resemble the real stone in color?

There are several vendors in the CS vendors list that I refuse to buy from for the above 2 reasons but they remain there because others have had good experiences.

Same for me.

Me too.

 

[pregcurious]

The irony is that the stone is quite pretty based on Freke's pictures. It is not necessary to "photo enhance" this stone to sell it for the listed price, which is reasonable.

I'm getting better at reading when people's pictures have been doctored. I've tried taking pictures of my stones under different lights, with different cameras. The Clear Cut Gem pictures have a very saturated, vivid quality to _all_ the stones, which is not realistic.

 

[katharath]

The irony is that the stone is quite pretty based on Freke's pictures. It is not necessary to "photo enhance" this stone to sell it for the listed price, which is reasonable.

I completely agree, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[RTFrog]

Freke: I'm glad you took more pictures of that stone, much appreciated. The tweaks that were applied do show more gray, picking up the
background that the gems are shot on. I feel that this is altering their appearance, especially when seeing the stone against your skin tone.

Backgrounds, as we have seen time and time again, can seriously alter the appearance of the stone.

There seems to be quite a discrepancy in the hue, tone, and saturation of the stone as represented in Vendor photos.

 

[pregcurious]

In the second set of Freke's photos, the stone looks much more gray, and less saturated.

Freke, can you tell us the differences between the 2 conditions?

 

[FrekeChild]

In the second set of Freke's photos, the stone looks much more gray, and less saturated.

Freke, can you tell us the differences between the 2 conditions?

If you go back to the original post on the first page, you can see that I took photos with three different cameras. Typically I don't do that, I just use my iphone because it's easiest, but I was really trying to see if I could make the color of the original vendor photos appear using any of my cameras. I don't know which camera took which pictures anymore because they were taken almost a year ago. The ones I have posted so far were ones that I shared with a friend, and were the most representative of the color I saw in hand.

Here is the stone looking the absolute best I could make it - with my iphone, which typically oversaturates blue hues. Again, this is not representative of the stone in hand. It still does not look like the first or third set of vendor photos.

I never ever manipulate color in any of my pictures, FYI.

 

[Michael_E]

I'm really disgusted with the new pictures.

I must admit that I find it off putting. I'm unfamiliar with the seller - but this makes me uncomfortable, looking at it from a buyer's perspective. I would be questioning all of the seller's pics.

I would question everyone's pictures as well as your own expectations. There are a few things that have been going on since day one in selling on the 'net and they are:

1. The seller will ALWAYS make the best presentation of a stone or piece of jewelry possible. There is a balancing act going on with any vendor between showing good images which will sell and showing mediocre images and not selling anything.You can't really expect that any pictures will show a stone that looks less than the best the seller can do with common studio lighting, because everyone on here buys by the pictures and they just won't buy a stone if it looks less than idea in an image. Also keep in mind that most camera's will highlight some colors at the expense of others. My Nikon for instance can make a pale aqua look like a million bucks and I have to remove color, (but not too much), in Photoshop in order to make it look more realistic.

2. The buyer can always find a lighting condition which makes the stone in hand look it's absolute worst. This might be YOUR normal lighting and so the stone is just plain unacceptable, (while for someone else with different lighting, it may be a treasure). Before you show terrible pictures of a stone in hand you really need to consider the lighting environment that you're using. We can't see that when looking at the picture and it certainly makes a huge difference in the stone's appearance. If you have the ability to return a stone which doesn't suit you and you can't make it look like the pictures from the vendor, just send it back and chalk it up to a mismatch in lighting and a little overkill on the part of the seller.

As a buyer you also need to question your expectations. If you think that you can find a stone of any variety which looks good in ALL lighting conditions, think again. The reality is that all stones look their best in specific lighting conditions and all stones can look very bad in other lighting conditions. They can all change color or lose color if the lighting is rich or poor in different parts of the color spectrum. Once you realize this you can become less particular about finding perfection and enjoy these gems for what they are.

 

[FrekeChild]

Michael,

I understand all of what you're saying, but having seen and played with the stone in hand, I can tell you that it never looked anything like the two pictures attached to this post. That's under fluorescent lighting, daylight, diffused daylight (full shade, under a tree, doing the cupping the hand trick), incandescent, and combinations of all of them. This stone is just not as saturated as his pictures depict.

I have bought and sold dozens of gemstones, so many that I don't want to think about it, and my goal as a seller has always been to make sure that the pictures I have depict what the stone looks like in real life. Or worse than it looks, so that the buyer loves it when they get it. I understand vendors making the stone look it's absolute best to sell it, and I never expect stones to look like that at all times, in all lighting situations. But I think that a line needs to be drawn when the picture of the stone is many times more saturated than the saturation level of the stone itself.

I didn't actively try to find lighting that made the stone look it's worst - I tried to find any lighting situation that would make it look like the blue picture. That's the stone that I expected to receive, and the stone I got looked nothing like the color in the vendor photo.

I consider the difference seen in hand, and in these photos as far more than being a "little overkill". Looking at these pictures, I would consider the stone to be "strong" saturation. The stone in hand is NOT.

 

[katharath]

I'm really disgusted with the new pictures.

I must admit that I find it off putting. I'm unfamiliar with the seller - but this makes me uncomfortable, looking at it from a buyer's perspective. I would be questioning all of the seller's pics.

I would question everyone's pictures as well as your own expectations.

As a buyer you also need to question your expectations. If you think that you can find a stone of any variety which looks good in ALL lighting conditions, think again. The reality is that all stones look their best in specific lighting conditions and all stones can look very bad in other lighting conditions. They can all change color or lose color if the lighting is rich or poor in different parts of the color spectrum. Once you realize this you can become less particular about finding perfection and enjoy these gems for what they are.

Just to be clear, I never said anywhere that I expect to "find a stone of any variety which looks good in ALL lighting conditions". I'm not in the trade, but I buy gems online fairly frequently (between 2-4 times a month minimally). I've purchased repeatedly from multiple "recommended" vendors (for whatever that's worth). I also sell out of my collection frequently as well. I'm very aware of the limitations of online buying and selling, as it's how I conduct literally all of my gem buying. When I'm selling, I take great care to include pictures of my gems in multiple lighting conditions when applicable, and to provide a description of how the gem performs in different conditions. Obviously most sellers don't have the time to give the lengthy descriptions that I give when selling; but the least they can do when selling items which cost hundreds+ is to provide pictures that are as accurate as possible.

My expectations are simply that I expect vendors to provide realistic pictures, not deceptive ones. That's ALL that I expect. I take my business to those vendors who are able to manage/meet that expectation; and in my experience, most of the successful ones can.

ETA - I found your comment about my "enjoying gems for what they are rather than searching for perfection" to be quite odd. I said in a later post within this very thread that I found this particular gem to be very beautiful - my issue with it was only that it wasn't accurately represented. I own dozens of gems that I purchased from vendors who took accurate pictures of them, and I do indeed enjoy them all.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I appreciate Michael's comments. Following on what he said: those of us viewing a photo that looks very different from a vendor's photo should not jump to conclusions about the inaccuracy of the original photo.

I remember about a year ago, someone was looking for a sapphire for an engagement ring. They bought it, and most people commented that it didn't look as good as the vendor photo, suggested it might not be so nice, and he returned it. It was purchased shortly thereafter by someone who took better photos and many of the same people commented that it was a great stone.

BUT F.C. knows what she is doing, and could NEVER make the stone look like the vendor photo. And she is knowledgeable about stones and their moods etc. So in this case, it really seems like the original photos were not the stone at its best, but the stone as better than it ever was.

 

[selous]

Someone notified me that this discussion was going on here about my products and photography so I feel I should respond as it is easy for someone hiding behind a computer to anonymously smear someones good reputation.

First off let me say emphatically that I have many satisfied customers and very few complaints since I have been in business,not that many from Pricescope but that is probably because I do not frequent or target this website as some vendors do.
I guarantee my gems and if someone isn't completely satisfied it's a simple matter to return the stone with no questions asked.

The specific gemstone in question was hard to photograph as it has subtle color shifts and let me just be clear that the first images of the stone posted here were never on my website,only on my facebook page and were taken quickly because someone had requested a "hand shot",granted they were a bit over saturated and the in camera processor leans towards blue which was explained to the client before shipping,it was in fact mentioned that it was more purple/lavender than blue and that the picture was off.
I always try not to photoshop or change pictures straight from the camera unless absolutely essential but in this case it was obvious that I had to.The latest images are fairly accurate and as close to the actual color as I can produce.
I WOULD BE PREPARED TO SEND THIS STONE TO A THIRD PARTY TO VERIFY THAT!

Frekechild you seem to be on a crusade to discredit my good name for some reason,wow,really? So many posts about this stone and you were not even the client,in fact you are a friend of hers who agreed to inspect the stone for her as she lives in Canada,you neglect to mention that since then she has bought a gem from me and was very satisfied with it.This begs the question ,why the righteous indignation about a gemstone which you did not even purchase for yourself?

The pictures you posted of this stone are really bad,proof of this is the color of the stones in the background in one of the picture contained withing your display boxes,it's fairly obvious to anyone paying attention that the gems in the background are as colorless as you claim my sapphire to be,why would you purchase such colorless gems for yourself?

Last,you claim the package was not insured,that is not true,all packages containing gems are insured and well packed,granted the small boxes we use have room for the gems to move around but damage is not possible,it's more just about presentation and we have phased these out anyway.
On price,well all I can say is that gem rough is always increasing in price and we would be out of business without price increases,to say that "old stock" should stay the same price and not increase is as ridiculous as saying that gem rough that came out of the ground ten years ago and has not been cut should be cheaper than rough discovered yesterday because it is "old".

I will be available on this thread and welcome any questions.

Lloyd Forrester - Owner Clear Cut Gems