Conservative grandmother and gay relationship: advice?

[WishfulThinking]

Okay, Ladies in Waiting...

Maybe you can help me out. I''m in a complicated situation right now, and I need some good, sound practical advice. I''m sorry this is so long, but I am trying to include as much information as possible so that people can get a better sense of what is going on and perhaps give me better advice as a result!

I am a woman engaged to another woman , and we''re tentatively planning on having a small ceremony with our immediate families in June 2009. Because the planning will be fairly small for this event, we haven''t solidified a date yet, and we are also waiting to determine whether California will allow same sex marriages after the Nov. election, as that will play a factor in which month and where we have our ceremony.


Both of our immediate families are fine with our getting married and plan to attend. Our friends are also thrilled for us. However, for obvious reasons, it has been difficult talking about our plans to marry with others. My extended family has been the most difficult, as S is not very close with her non-immediate family. I am very close with many people in mine, including my grandmother. My grandmother lives in Portugal [I live in the US] and is in her mid-80s. She has extremely traditional ideas about... well.... everything. Because she lives so far away, we [meaning myself, as well as others in my family] have sometimes not been entirely forthcoming with her in our correspondences, whether they be by phone or by mail. Although I have been "out" as a lesbian for almost 9 years now, she doesn''t know. She has asked me MANY times about whether I have a boyfriend, and is disappointed by my replies that I do not. Rather than correcting her that instead of a boyfriend I have a girlfriend and telling her about my relationships in the past, I have let her think I was single.

Omitting these details about my life is not something I am especially proud of, but those relationships were usually short and not serious, and all of them occurred during times when I was in the US and she was in Portugal. It is VERY difficult for us to communicate over the phone, and there is a significant language barrier between us, so explaining it when we are not face-to-face, which doesn''t happen often, is virtually impossible. So- 9 years later, she still doesn''t know.

I want to tell her.

My family is freaking out. My mom, while she supports my being honest with my grandmother, is worried that she will have a total freakout [as she is prone to do about EVERYTHING] and be upset. She has agreed to assist me in bridging the language gap between me and my grandmother, but she is a bit unhappy that she will likely have to bear the brunt of what people anticipate as my grandmother''s disappointed, angry, and worried response. I am in agreement with my mom about how difficult my grandmother''s reaction will be, but that can''t be the only consideration, considering the situation. I have come to an agreement with my mom, though. We agreed to tell her.

However, my uncle and aunt do not think I should tell her at all. Ever. Neither does my cousin, his wife, or my other cousin. They all have anecdotal stories about their own lives- one of my cousins got a tattoo that she never told my grandmother about, my uncle cheated on my aunt [they are still together] and no one ever told my grandmother, etc. They gave me a HUGE lecture about this the other day when I was there for a visit, and it was sort of upsetting. They don''t understand at all why I want to be honest with her, or really comprehend how complicated the situation is or could be if I do lie about it.

Considerations:
I have to be true to myself. I think it''s degrading to myself and my relationship that I should actively lie about it to other people. I adore my grandmother, but I love S, and we''re going to spend the rest of our lives together. No contest [sorry grandma]. I will feel horrible if I have to censor my relationship because of this, and honestly, I don''t think I could live with myself if I did.

If everyone else knows... can we really expect it to stay a secret forever? She will more likely than not find out eventually because everyone else knows, and she''s no idiot. My family is also really into gossiping.

I would rather she hear it from ME than through the grape vine.

My grandmother is possibly coming to the US to my college graduation next May. S is in my graduating class and a HUGE part of my life and I am not hiding her and our relationship during this important time. I''m just not. The travel is up in the air, but if she decides to come, there''s not much we can say to dissuade her from it without making her sad about missing it. No good excuses here.The small family wedding would be held the week after our graduation.

My grandmother is not going to die any time soon. I am so grateful for this. I really hate how everyone keeps implying that I should wait to get married until she dies. Well, that could be another 10 years judging by the lifespans of her side of the family, and I''m not going to be making my decisions based on that. I don''t want to have to make a HAPPY decision about who I spend my life with based on when someone I love passes away. That''s horrible.

Over the next few years I will be moving, and my grandmother wants to come visit me at my new location. I''ll be living there with my wife at that point. That seems really difficult to manage.

... I don''t know what else to say. There is more, but there always seems to be more with this story, and I could go on and on for ages. I want to tell her, and I was planning on telling her until every single relative I have freaked out at me [I''m not exaggerating... it was horrible] and basically told me I''m not allowed to tell her. However, they don''t actually have a say in it, and they don''t run every aspect of her life, nor will they have to deal with the fall-out.

Does anyone have any advice? How would you deal? How would you react if I was your granddaughter [please be nice while you''re being honest- I want people to be honest, but I''m a person, please remember that]? Should I tell her? Is it possible or advisable to start a lie this big?

I am so confused and sick about this. I appreciate in advance anyone who reads all of this. Thanks.

 

[vslover]

I think you should tell her and end the discussion with "I love you Grandma and I want to give you a little time to get used to this, so when you''re ready/willing to talk some more, I''ll be waiting" or something like that. Be true to yourself...and to S...everything else will fall in to place.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/29/2008 10:02:20 PM
Author: vslover
I think you should tell her and end the discussion with ''I love you Grandma and I want to give you a little time to get used to this, so when you''re ready/willing to talk some more, I''ll be waiting'' or something like that. Be true to yourself...and to S...everything else will fall in to place.

Ditto. Give her time after you discuss this with her. She may even surprise you and end up being more accepting than you think...

My brother came out to my grandmother, it didn''t go well at first. But after some time, she was fine with it.

I wish you all the best, I know it''s hard. You have to be true to yourself, and hopefully she''ll come around.

 

[fieryred33143]

Excuse my frankness here…

Your grandmother is 80. She has had 80 years of love, happiness, mistakes…life in general. And while she isn’t going to pass away any time soon, she has still lived her life according to the way she has wanted to.

Now, its your turn. Will it hurt her? Absolutely. Will she understand? Nope. But this is your life. As you said, you shouldn’t censor your love to shield others from what they don’t understand or don’t accept.

Tell her you love her, you respect her, and that you want her blessing. But don’t apologize for who you are and who you love. Don’t hide your true feelings to make her feel better. And if your other family members chose to hide their lives to protect her, then that’s them. Their situations have nothing to do with you and your future fiance.

I wish you all the best.

 

[purrfectpear]

Of course you are entitled to tell her. You''re her granddaughter and your mother (her daughter) also agrees to support you in being honest.

I''m a little shocked that the other relatives are so insensitive about this

Partly they are probably trying to "spare" her the shock, but I also think they are being selfish in that they just don''t want to deal with the subject knowing she will call them too. Too bad. This is about you and your grandma, not about them.

No one should have to live a lie, ever.

 

[princesss]

Oh, sweetie, I''m sorry you''re getting such a rough response from your family about this.

I think you should tell her. The things other people are saying they''ve hidden from her are all incidental things that don''t hide a crucial part of their lives. You lying to your grandmother about your sexuality is a HUGE part of your life, and (IMHO) if *you* are ready to tell her and feel it''s important, then they ought to just shut up and be there to support you. I''m sorry, but hiding a tattoo is NOWHERE NEAR as emotionally draining hiding your relationship (and, hopefully, marriage *crosses fingers for November*) with the love of your life.

I''m glad you see the situation clearly, and I know I''d be thrilled and proud of you if I were your FI. You''re doing what we recommend to ladies on here all the time: you''re recognizing that you''re a unit with your FI and plan on showing them that despite whatever opinion they have, your loyalty is towards your future wife. Good for you.

 

[MMMD]

I agree with everyone else, tell your grandmother. So many wonderful things are happening in your life and keeping secrets will diminsh your happiness. And your marriage is much different than an affair or a tattoo. Those events can be kept secret by the family members and they can still maintain a relationship with Grandma. Your marriage isn''t something that can be hidden if your grandmother comes to visit! Good luck.

 

[surfgirl]

While I ditto pretty much what everyone else has already said, is there any way to visit your grandmother in person? If so, that's probably the best way to handle this, in person. It's a lot to take in for someone her age, given that you already know she probably wont take it well. Then again, she may surprise you and be accepting about it, you never know. As long as you go into this knowing that she may have a hissy fit and not speak to you (thinking that will change your mind or something equally silly), and you are prepared for that, you will be fine.

One other thing, have you discussed with your mother whether or not perhaps an initial heartfelt letter from you (with a follow up phone call) might be better given how your grandmother might react? Or is an initial phone call the better way to go with her? I'm just wondering...

ETA: My late grandmother was wonderful about this sort of thing. When one of my cousins came out later in life, his mom (my grandmother's sister) was initially freaked out and my grandmother was like, "whatever, he's still Bill, what's the big deal?..." She also had a friend later in life who was a lesbian and she was quite fond of her. Alas, I wish I could lend you my grandmother sweetie...It'll all work out, dont worry...

 

[Clio]

I agree that you should tell her. Not only is lying about your relationship doing a disservice to S, but I also think it would be disrespectful of you grandmother. I know if I were she, I would rather know - even if I disapproved strongly - than be lied to.

It''s entirely possible that she will surprise you. When I got engaged, we were apprehensive about telling my grandmother because my husband is not white. My grandmother was, to put it bluntly, quite racist. Not only that, but my husband is Vietnamese, and my grandmother was raised in China, where she absorbed some of the historical Chinese contempt for the Vietnamese. When we announced the engagement, however, my grandmother embraced Steve with open arms. We got married in her town, and not only did she get involved in the planning, but she got all of her friends involved as well.

Yes, it''s likely that she will be upset, maybe for a short time, maybe for longer. But whatever her reaction, I think that as long as you make it clear that a) you love her and want to continue a relationship with her, and b)you love S and will not back down, you will be fine in the end.

Good luck!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thank you so much vslover, Kaleigh, fireyred, purrfectpear, princess, MMMD, and surfgirl for you fast and helpful responses.

I feel a bit more reassured after hearing your feedback, especially since I know that you are all one step removed from all of this, unlike me or anyone else involved on my end, and because you give such sound advice. I had always wanted to tell her, and I knew it would be hard and tumultuous, but it was what needed to be done. After this weekend and the huge blow-up that ensued after people found out I was engaged, which I announced quietly to a few people at a time, in order to make it more personal and manageable, and so as to not let my grandmother know *quite* yet. Not everyone else knows yet, either. However, before even congratulating me, the first words out of their mouths was that I''d better not tell my grandmother.

I almost cried right then and there, and the conversation [if you could call it that?] went on for over a half an hour with every person present weighing in on what they think is best... they all agreed I should never say a word. Suddenly I was the odd one out, and I started to doubt and question everything all over again. It had taken me months to even work out whether and how I planned to tell my grandmother, and everyone else seemed to know the "right" plan of action for my situation within minutes of hearing about it.

I will definitely take the advice about giving her time after we discuss it, and I even dare to hope sometimes that it isn''t going to be as bad as everyone anticipates. She has a history of being a liiiitttle on the crazed side when it comes to non-traditional situations, but she''s come through in a pinch. My parents got a divorce, and even though in my grandmother''s world it''s unheard of, she stood by my mom and still loves her. I think that experience has allowed my mom to realize that I, too, need to be honest with my grandmother about my life and what''s going on. For her, too, the practical implications of hiding a divorce were unreasonable. Than again, no one dreamed of telling her not to tell my grandmother ever. Nor would they tell me the same thing if I''d fallen in love with someone of a different race, even though that would unfortunately probably be just as taboo according to her standards.

purrfect pear- Yeah, it sounds surprising if you''re an outsider, but they are SO like this. It''s really quite typical of them.

They are definitely trying to shield her, but I know even they have their own boundaries with what can be said. My mom''s divorce made the cut, my marriage didn''t. But those standards are so arbitrary, and you''re right in saying that it''s not about them.

pricess- I thought the same thing about how ridiculous it was to compare S to a tattoo. Plus, tattoos can''t be hurt by being kept a secret. S is amazing, but it really is hard to be someone''s "dirty little secret," no matter the circumstances that lead to it.

surfgirl- Thank you for the suggestions. I really appreciate your help with this. I am definitely telling her in person. That''s one of the reasons this is coming up right now, as she arrived in the US a week ago and is staying in a month. We''ve visited her twice at my uncle''s house, and in a few weeks she will come to stay with my mother, where I am living for the summer. Since I do not see my extended family frequently, I announced my engagement to some people this past weekend, knowing I won''t see them again soon. I am not planning on telling my grandmother until she comes to stay with us, as I think it is a lot easier to talk with her and spend time with her away from other people, especially since others are being so unsupportive. It will at least initially delay any family drama that might happen.

I do have to talk to her about it in person. If she were literate enough in English to read a letter, I would have approached it that way. I love using written words to express myself in emotional situations, because it gives me much more clarity and control than I might otherwise have. She doesn''t read English well, though, so that is not an option. The phone is equally difficult, as sometimes it''s hard for her to understand without having a personal context. I will also need my mother on hand [but probably not initially present, so I can talk to her alone] in case she doesn''t understand something, or has questions. We communicate fairly well, but there is definitely a barrier there.

I am expecting an initial hissy fit. I am trying to be realistic about it and envision all the possible scenarios. There are many. Most probable is that my relationship and marriage will fall into the "avoidable tragedy" category. This is so SAD, what a SHAME, I am a BEAUTIFUL GIRL, this is a STAGE... imagine it all in really broken, hysterical, Portuguese-accented English.

I love her, I really, really do. We''ve always been very close. If it''s an "avoidable tragedy" my mom will be blamed for raising me wrong, my parents'' failed marriage will come into the conversation, as will my attending an all-women''s college, and the fact that I have [successfully!] battled mental illness in the past. I feel badly for my mom about this, but there''s not much that can be done, and we''ve talked about it already. My uncle [mom''s older brother] is also quite likely to call her and yell at her for "letting" me tell her [as if I''m not an adult]. I told her I would field those calls. I am a freaking ADULT. I am getting MARRIED. He is insanely controlling, but it is not his business, and on that I will stay firm.
The other option is that it will never be discussed again, as if it never happened. The initial stage of hysteria might even be skipped here... she literally may just act like she never heard. The "what she doesn''t know can''t hurt her" attitude. If this is the case, I won''t press things with her further. If asked about my life in the future I will include S and our life together briefly as it is relevant and DEFINITELY respond to the inevitable [if she goes this route, that is] "do you have a boyfriend yet" questions by answering that I am already married. I guess we''ll cross this bridge when we get there, though. Sorry for the rambly and long-winded response!



Thanks again everyone for being so kind, helpful, and understanding. I appreciate it more than you could know.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 6/29/2008 11:38:16 PM
Author: Clio
I agree that you should tell her. Not only is lying about your relationship doing a disservice to S, but I also think it would be disrespectful of you grandmother. I know if I were she, I would rather know - even if I disapproved strongly - than be lied to.


It's entirely possible that she will surprise you. When I got engaged, we were apprehensive about telling my grandmother because my husband is not white. My grandmother was, to put it bluntly, quite racist. Not only that, but my husband is Vietnamese, and my grandmother was raised in China, where she absorbed some of the historical Chinese contempt for the Vietnamese. When we announced the engagement, however, my grandmother embraced Steve with open arms. We got married in her town, and not only did she get involved in the planning, but she got all of her friends involved as well.


Yes, it's likely that she will be upset, maybe for a short time, maybe for longer. But whatever her reaction, I think that as long as you make it clear that a) you love her and want to continue a relationship with her, and b)you love S and will not back down, you will be fine in the end.


Good luck!

Thanks for the response, Clio. I actually told my family when they were voicing their opposition to my telling her that I thought it was disrespectful not to. They [obviously] disagreed, but I think it is a very valid point. If I were in her shoes, no matter how I would react, I would rather be treated like an adult who is included in the conversation rather than a child to be protected and tiptoed around. Plus, there is the possibility that she could accept my relationship, and if that is the case she would be terribly hurt.

I also appreciate your perspective as part of an interracial couple. I am so glad things worked out between you and your FI and your grandmother! I know for a fact that my extended family [none of whom are racist, to my knowledge] would 100% support my telling my grandmother that I was in an interracial relationship. We would all be acutely aware of her reaction, which could be quite negative, as Portugal is a pretty racist country to have been raised in, but they would be supportive anyways. I fail to see how this is different. She would react the same to those things- in fact, her statements about same sex marriages have actually been very similar to her statements about interracial marriages when we have discussed this stuff in the past. In the abstract, she categorizes both as "avoidable tragedies" and wonders what the world is coming to. But who knows how she would actually react when it is her granddaughter that she is close with rather than a random, hypothetical gay couple that she has no relationship with. For the record and what it's worth, she does support [in the abstract] interracial and same sex marriages; actually, she is apathetic to them, but she believes that the government shouldn't tell people what to do and not to do to that extent. She would sort of just rather not know about it or being disapproving than stop it, if that makes any sense.

 

[Kaleigh]

I''m glad we were of help. Please let us know how it goes. Keeping my fingers crossed for you. I was surprised that my grandmother came around to my brother. Actually my parents took it the worse. I ended up taking a summer course to help explain all of this to them. It took my dad years to accept it. He lost a lot of time with my brother. But in the end, they had a wonderful relationship. I am glad I had a hand in that. When my brother told me, I was in college. He was on the phone with me, and said I have something to tell you. I said, you''re gay, so tell me something new. He said how did you know? I said from day one. It doesn''t matter one bit. I love you. I said as long as you don''t tell me your bed time stories all will be fine. He laughed, and cried at the same time. I can only imagine the relief he felt. And the relief I felt that it was out in the open, as I knew it was a heavy weight on his shoulders....

So good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Kaleigh- I really can't express how thankful I am for all of you right now. I am so emotional naturally, so it's even worse when I have something this large and important and already emotionally-charged to deal with. It's going to be a long ride, but I am happy to know that I can come here and feel comfortable sharing how I am feeling and getting some of the best advice on the 'net!

To threadjack myself, and if you don't mind my asking, what course did you take to help explain your brother's situation to your parents? As a gender studies student, I am envisioning all sorts of things, since right now I basically study these things for a "living." Your exchange with your brother when he was ready to let you know sounds so cute- I bet he was so relieved!

It's great you're so supportive.
As stupid and naive as it sounds, it is still weird for me when people I know closely are unsupportive. I grew up in a very liberal part of already liberal Massachusetts [where I could get legally married if S was a resident, but no luck] where many people are fine, and a nearby town is actually hailed nationwide as the lesbian equivalent of P-town.

People here are cool, my parents are cool, and now my college is cool, and probably 40% of us are gay or queer identifying anyways.

But I LOVE being in this environment.
I've been "out" since I was 12 or 13, but responses have been so positive that it wasn't until I was much older that I really understood the magnitude of the hate that is directed toward those of us in the LGBT community. Now I am facing perhaps moving to a conservative state such as Arizona, which is a lot of stress. It frightened me, and still does. Now I am planning to work with these issues in politics and law for the rest of my life!
/threadjack. Yeesh.

 

[Kaleigh]

Wishful,
It was at Villanova University, back in 1981?? It was titled Sexual deviancy. (SP?) Terrible title, but read on...

The proffesor was awesome. He explained to us through many studies, that you are born gay. It's not a choice. I always say to anyone that argues with me on this, I say look, being gay isn't easy. Would YOU choose to be something that is hard, that is looked down upon. I think that really helped my parents, to know they didn't do anything to cause this. I guess as parents, their first question was what did we do wrong? I explained, you didn't do anything wrong, now embrace him and love him.

 

[WishfulThinking]

That sounds remarkably like classes we take in Gender Studies... but we don''t use terms like "deviance" anymore, really. Sounds about right and actually very progressive for the early 80s! And at a Catholic university?! Wow.

I am glad the course shed some light on the subject for you and helped you talk to your family. I definitely identify as being "born gay," if I had to choose. S actually does not, but that is a subject for a different sort of thread, I think. Just to throw in some spice, as she tends to do.

Either way, I think the choices that people make, excepting of course, those choices that cause harm to others, should be respected and tolerated by others. I can''t figure out why people are so concerned- born gay or not, I love who I am, and S loves who she is, and that should be enough. Sadly, it''s not, and those people who identify with having been born gay have really excellent leverage to gain acceptance by pointing that out.

I really appreciate all of your responses and enjoy talking about this, so sorry if I''m boring and for being so off track from the original thread.

If others want to weigh in, I''d appreciate any help or support people are able to give.

 

[bobbin]

I really feel for you in this situation...

My sister is gay and we haven''t told my grandparents and one of my uncles as they are religious and would not be able to accept it. However, my sister is still at the stage where she has not had a significant long-term relationship with a woman as yet and it is still very easy to keep it quiet. Also, our family has been torn apart in the last few years- my aunty, cousin and nana died, my papa remarried, my other aunty and cousin moved to the other side of Australia and now my deceased aunty''s husband (the uncle we haven''t told) remarried after only knowing the woman he married for ten months (they were engaged after one month). She has now told him that she can''t handle him seeing us so he has ex-communicated himself from our family. Anyway, after all this I just don''t think that our family could handle losing anymore family members from our life.

Your situation is different as you have pointed out, S is a huge part of your life and should not be treated like a ''dirty secret''. As long as you are respectful when you tell your grandmother and are prepared for an adverse reaction, you definately should tell her. Hopefully she will prioritise her love for you over any prejudice she may have.

Good luck with it all. What you are doing takes a lot of courage and I think that you are very brave. I will be thinking of you.

 

[bee*]

Date: 6/29/2008 10:02:20 PM
Author: vslover
I think you should tell her and end the discussion with ''I love you Grandma and I want to give you a little time to get used to this, so when you''re ready/willing to talk some more, I''ll be waiting'' or something like that. Be true to yourself...and to S...everything else will fall in to place.

totally agree with this.

 

[gwendolyn]

Hey sweetie, I think everyone''s basically covered what I was going to say, but I just wanted to offer my sympathy that you have to deal with the stress of this situation, and my support to hold your head up high and be proud of who you are. You and S make a BEAUTIFUL couple--maybe after some time, your grandma will be able to see this.

 

[Scorpio_22]

Date: 6/29/2008 10:18:54 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Excuse my frankness here…

Your grandmother is 80. She has had 80 years of love, happiness, mistakes…life in general. And while she isn’t going to pass away any time soon, she has still lived her life according to the way she has wanted to.

Now, its your turn. Will it hurt her? Absolutely. Will she understand? Nope. But this is your life. As you said, you shouldn’t censor your love to shield others from what they don’t understand or don’t accept.

Tell her you love her, you respect her, and that you want her blessing. But don’t apologize for who you are and who you love. Don’t hide your true feelings to make her feel better. And if your other family members chose to hide their lives to protect her, then that’s them. Their situations have nothing to do with you and your future fiance.

I wish you all the best.

So true!! If you feel in your heart that you should tell her, pleeeeaaase do so!! I think that knowing you are happy will mean the world to her and she can stop worrying that your still single!

sending you good vibes xox

 

[meresal]

Agree you should tell her and give her some time afterwards... but you said that she is a very smart woman, is there any chance that she already has an idea??

 

[HollyS]

Well, you don''t really have a dilema; you and your mom have agreed to tell your grandmother. You''re past that hurdle.

What you have is some anxiety about her reaction; fear of her disappointment; and a little angst and anger at your extended family for asking you to lie. They would prefer you lie because it will make their life easier if they don''t have to admit to grandma that they already knew about your lifestyle. That''s certainly no reason to live a lie.

Do what is right for you. Period. Other people''s reactions are something you have had to deal with, and will continue to deal with on an almost daily basis as a gay person. If you are confident and happy with your life choices, don''t apologize to anyone (family or not), and don''t spend your life avoiding conflict.

Who knows . . . grandma may surprise you.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thank you bee*, gwen, and scorpio. I needed the support and well-wishes!

bobbin- I, too, waited to tell many people in my family because I wasn''t in a significant relationship, and I knew it would be very complicated. I am sorry to hear about the rifts in your own family, but I hope that your sister finds the courage to be open about who she is to as many people as she is comfortable with. Thank you for everything.

meresal- She definitely has no idea. I think many of the other people I have told over the years definitely had an idea, but I am basically the epitome of feminine, and to my grandmother that means only one thing: heterosexual and looking for good-looking men. Then again, in my grandmother''s mind, even if I appeared more masculine and "butch," I doubt it would ever occur to her. The concept that people she knows might actually be gay is something very foreign to her.

HollyS- Thanks for weighing in. You''re right in saying I don''t really have a dilemma. I think that after the fiasco this weekend I started to doubt that we were making the right decision, and my mom was thrown off a bit, too. Hearing the responses on this thread has given us both the outside perspective that we need to be reassured that the decision we''re making is, in fact, an alright one.

You''re also right about my relatives, definitely. They just want everything to be easy for them, and for no one to ever make waves. It works well for them, but I think if their own son were gay they would have a very different take. Not having to bear the consequences of this particular lie themselves in any way, it''s easy enough for them to ask me to lie. No harm no foul to them. I will definitely deal with any reaction accordingly; I figure if I am mature enough to get married I am definitely mature enough to deal with any conflict that my marriage may cause. Due to the nature of my relationship and marriage, it is sure to cause controversy left and right for the rest of our lives. We''re strong enough, both as individuals and as a couple, to handle that. Thanks again.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

To me, what''s important is that you are sensitive to your grandmother''s sensibilities. I love my brother, but he sees tact as selling out and has caused a lot of problems in the family because of it.

You have gotten good advice here, so I wanted to touch on your moving to someplace less liberal. I grew up in liberal Denver but went to college in VERY conservative Colorado Springs. For the most part, it really isn''t any different on a day to day basis but then I was careful not to wear signs of my Pagan faith there either. I will say, we bought a car from a lesbian in Denver that had gay pride stickers on it we thought were cute, so we left them. For three months we had no problems, but then someone tried to run us off the road and we removed the stickers the nest day. Just be aware and subtle, but never ashamed. Know that there are people all over, like myself, who support you and wish you the best, even in intimidating conservative areas.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thanks for the input, brazen_irish_hussy. Oh yes, we definitely will be cautious, especially with family and my grandmother in particular, as well as situations that could be dangerous. However, while there are obviously kind and accepting people almost everywhere, we will eventually be moving someplace where we can hold hands on the street without being beaten to a pulp. While I understand your parallel using symbols of your faith and think it is a good one, unfortunately S is not something that can be removed quite so easily [not that I think you were trying to imply that!]. We will be living in the same house, and wearing rings on our left fingers. People notice things like that, and sometimes, even if you''re not in anyone''s face, so to speak, it can still be very scary and negative. Subtlety can help in potentially sticky situations, but reality is hard to bury. That''s why we''re eventually going to live in a place where we can be ourselves and face what will hopefully be less obstacles, although there will always be something to think about, I''m sure.

Thanks again!

 

[Anastasia]

Wishful,

You have received some wonderful advice here.

You sound like a very secure and mature young woman. You are behaving much more maturely than many of your relatives. I admire your respect for not only your grandmother, but for yourself and your relationship. There is nothing you can do to change your grandmother''s reaction. She will just have to work through it herself. She will either choose to accept it or not.

My niece is gay. She came out (to everyone) at the age of 20. I (while admittedly being shocked), was so happy for her that she decided to come out at 20, rather than living a lie for many years. The entire family was very accepting and supportive. I give my parents a lot of credit for how well they handled it. My father is in his 80''s, my mother in her late 70''s, and they were both totally accepting. She has been living with her girlfriend for a few years now, and her girlfriend has become part of the family. We love her to death. They live in CA now, so I''m not sure if they will get married or not, but it is nice to know that whatever she chooses to do will be accepted by the family.

Good luck with everything. Just remember that whatever your relatives tell you, you are doing the right thing. It is your life, not theirs and they have no right to tell you what to do.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thanks for your reply, Anastasia, and for the reassurance as well. I am trying to do everything I can to make this go as smoothly as is possible while still maintaining respect for everyone involved. Definitely not an easy feat.

The story about your niece is very sweet. I am glad she had the confidence to come out to everyone rather than living in secret, and that it went so well! I wish her and her girlfriend all the happiness in the world! I plan to live in CA eventually, but it might be some years before we can settle down permanently, as we are still both in school.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

I agree, tell her. She loves you, and hopefully she can come around. It may take her some time to do so, so please try to be as patient as possible, but I do think you need to tell her. Part of making a lifetime commitment to someone (your FI) is including them in your life in all aspects and not hiding anything, you should not have to hide S from her. You need to at least give your grandmother the opportunity to share in your joy with S. To be honest, she may even resent you one way if you don''t. For example, I know this is different but one of my uncles is gay. He never told my father, never would discuss it at all. He''s been living with his partner for over 20 years. My father is so deeply hurt and resentful that his brother didn''t trust him enough to tell him. My father never made any comments or did anything to make his brother think he couldn''t tell him, so my father doesn''t understand why he didn''t share that part of his life. Does this make sense? Give her the opportunity to 100% be a part of your life and your commitment.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 7/1/2008 12:41:22 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS
I agree, tell her. She loves you, and hopefully she can come around. It may take her some time to do so, so please try to be as patient as possible, but I do think you need to tell her. Part of making a lifetime commitment to someone (your FI) is including them in your life in all aspects and not hiding anything, you should not have to hide S from her. You need to at least give your grandmother the opportunity to share in your joy with S. To be honest, she may even resent you one way if you don''t. For example, I know this is different but one of my uncles is gay. He never told my father, never would discuss it at all. He''s been living with his partner for over 20 years. My father is so deeply hurt and resentful that his brother didn''t trust him enough to tell him. My father never made any comments or did anything to make his brother think he couldn''t tell him, so my father doesn''t understand why he didn''t share that part of his life. Does this make sense? Give her the opportunity to 100% be a part of your life and your commitment.

Thanks for the input, Sarah. That totally does make sense. Oddly, I was just thinking about that the other day...
while it''s likely that she will be disappointed or upset, there is the tiny possibility that she will be fine with it. If that is the case she would be SO hurt if she ever found out that I had hidden this from her, and probably offended that I hadn''t trusted her. I also would feel horrible if she passed away and I had never given her the chance to be supportive, regardless of whether she would have or not. There''s always that "what if?" hanging out in the background.

After all of this thinking and reassurance from S, my mom, PSers, and friends, I am going to tell her for sure. I will be seeing her in around 2 weeks or so, and sometime around that time I will take the time to sit down with her and talk face to face. Wish me luck! Meanwhile, I''ve jumped into wedding planning and BWW! Yaaay!

I think I am both a bride in waiting and a lady in waiting. We''re almost definitely doing a ceremony in June, but in some ways we are still "waiting" to see whether it will be legal then. I sure hope so!

 

[AmberGretchen]

What a courageous and wonderful choice you have made wishfulthinking - good luck talking with your grandmother, and it sounds like no matter what, you and S have a wonderful future to look forward to together, and you should be very proud of your integrity and bravery standing up for that choice.