Could you vote for the death penalty?

[fire&ice]

Ah - aggravating and mitigating. They also brought up his sexual abuse as a kid.

Would the evidence of a 36 foot sheet rope be aggravating or mitigating? I suppose if they caught him in the act of escaping certainly mitigating. Maybe not just the rope by itself.

Another thing - what if you say you could vote/recommend the death penalty & you have a change of heart during the trial - Are you obligated to tell the court?

 

[divergrrl]

I''m responding without reading others replies, to preserve, I guess, my feeling on the issue (not be influenced)


I could not vote for the death penalty. I simply think that responding to violence with more violence is not the answer.

Also, the amount of money it costs to put a person on deathrow, the taxpayer cost for all the appeals, far exceeds the cost of putting a murderer in prison for life with no chance of parole.

Now I do think that the Lifers should not have access to things like college, etc. because there is no chance of releasing them into the general public, so why should we pay for them to better themselves after they have so recklessly discarded human life? I do believe that people who would otherwise be eligible for the DP for murder should be in a program that is less comfortable (cable, education, etc..) but still be treated humanely.

It''s such a touchy issue & I respect that others have a different viewpoint. I think it gets hard when there is a particularly violent/pathological killer, and the more heinous the crime, the easier it is to think "that person does not deserve to live". I, myself, have thought that before (Dahmer, Ward..that guy across the way from me...like just across the river, who murdered the two jr. high girls and then buried them under his concrete patio) but when you take a look at how the system functions, its not efficient. And then I reiterate my first sentence.

Later,

Jeannine

 

[divergrrl]

Date: 8/17/2006 6:02:41 PM
Author: Shay37
Anyone touching my kids would not have to worry about burdening the system with lengthy appeals.

shay

And see, this is why I didn''t read the posts first before responding...

Shay, I have a 20 month old...when I read your post, it gets my blood going, because I can totally BECOME your sentiment.

If anyone touched Jake, the death penalty would be the last of their worries.

GROWLLLLLL....momma grizzly bear.

(see, its emotion.....dang...I try to be so zen like sometimes).

Jeannine

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 8/18/2006 9:28:15 AM
Author: strmrdr
yes I could and would.

ditto..and totally with ya shay on the anyone touching my kids

 

[portoar]

Date: 8/17/2006 6:02:41 PM
Author: Shay37
Anyone touching my kids would not have to worry about burdening the system with lengthy appeals.

shay

I''m with you on that, Shay. Touch my kids you die.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/18/2006 7:41:18 PM
Author: portoar

Date: 8/17/2006 6:02:41 PM
Author: Shay37
Anyone touching my kids would not have to worry about burdening the system with lengthy appeals.

shay

I''m with you on that, Shay. Touch my kids you die.

Yup, right there with you Shay.

My kids mean the world to me and it''s my job to protect them, so if it were me and some creep, the creep would be a sorry soul.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/18/2006 7:41:18 PM
Author: portoar

Date: 8/17/2006 6:02:41 PM
Author: Shay37
Anyone touching my kids would not have to worry about burdening the system with lengthy appeals.

shay

I''m with you on that, Shay. Touch my kids you die.

Well, for loss of words - this is precisely why the Harvey''s died the awful death they did. The Mom was the most vocal & subsequently the most brutal of deaths.

Honestly, I''m at a loss for words. Wow me the wrath of Mama Bear - but at what expense? She, as I wouldn''t in the moment, know what PCp would do to someone.

 

[movie zombie]

PCP removes restraint in all forms.....and a physically strong man won''t even be stopped by bullets in many cases.....the pain will merely enrage him and he turns into a berserker [think viking raiders on steroids]. and i''m talking being shot with a gun that would normally take him down. unless one is a very accurate shot, a PCP induced violent person isn''t going to be stopped by a moma bear, or a papa bear for that matter. however, using violence against that person will merely push them to react even more violently. its like they get in touch with some inner strength and it becomes unleashed....they aren''t able to control/stop it.

i totally understand the feeling and need to protect our young....but sometimes our attempts to protect them can endanger them further.

http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/drug_guide/PCP

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fshallu.htm

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/MISC/pcpviol.htm "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel. Both aspects concern the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive behavior. There are reports of increased aggressiveness and ''super-human'' strength that develop in some people who take phencyclidine."

i used to be a crisis line volunteer.....and our area had a PCP problem.

movie zombie

 

[WTNLVR]

I support the death penalty. Now, would I sentence every murderer to the death penalty? That depends on the crime and circumstances. I just think that there are evil people out there that commit such horrible crimes, knowing they are doing wrong, that they deserve to die. No point in the government funding their stay in the prison system for years after committing say, the total slaughter of a family with young children, on a random urge.Just my opinion.

 

[fire&ice]

Thanks MZ - we don''t hear much about PCP in our area. Why take it? What''s the upside of the drug.

I''m unsure about the other 4 murders (besides the Harveys & one''s he hasn''t confessed to) & the one attempted murder - but I would venture a guess on all accounts that he was on PCP. The paranoid violence is just something unthinkable except for the drug.

Yeah, in each incident - in his own words - the people tried to "get away" (mostly in a non-violent way). He said it got "crazy".

I don''t think it is an "excuse" in any way shape or form for what this monster did to his victims. But, at least it can be rationalized in terms of why someone could even do these terrible things. The actions aren''t even the acts of a rabid animal.

In my mind, maybe he wouldn''t commit these horrible crimes if he weren''t on PCP. He is capable on PCP. Nothing would stop him from taking the drug again. It would not affect the way I would feel about voting for the death penalty.

 

[msdarlinjoy]

Yes ... I could vote for the DP.

 

[ladykemma]

in houston texas we recently had two murder trials that stand out

one was a dentist who ran over her philandering husband in the parking lot of a hotel (round and round). he had messed with her head to the point where she "lost it". i would have "lost it" too, and I felt sorry for her.

andrea yates. what to say?

for either of these i would NOT have voted death penalty

 

[phoenixgirl]

The criminal in question did receive the death penalty. The jury stipulated that it was for the murder of the little girls and gave him a life sentence for the other crimes. This is interesting . . . I just voted in a poll on the Times Dispatch website regarding whether or not the guy "deserved" the death penalty.

So far, 584 people have voted . . .

556 said yes (95%)

21 said no (3%)

7 said unsure (1%)

I expressed my qualms about the DP earlier, but I''ve always thought that if we just had some sort of national voting system, people''s guts would tell them what is right. If 95% of people acquainted with the case think the person deserves death, that seems pretty certain. A guy who brutally murdered a 4-year-old girl for no reason, a guy who said he wanted to die, a guy who was found to be planning an escape . . . it''s hard to make any argument in favor of life in prison. Still, I am glad the decision wasn''t in my hands.

 

[fire&ice]

I didn''t see the poll. Interesting - 95%.

Yeah, I have to say even on PCP - how could you do what he did to a 4 year old little girl? I really thought they were going to be a hung jury on that issue. Though it saddens me, I think they got it right.

 

[diamondfan]

Date: 8/19/2006 10:04:50 AM
Author: fire&ice
Thanks MZ - we don''t hear much about PCP in our area. Why take it? What''s the upside of the drug.

I''m unsure about the other 4 murders (besides the Harveys & one''s he hasn''t confessed to) & the one attempted murder - but I would venture a guess on all accounts that he was on PCP. The paranoid violence is just something unthinkable except for the drug.

Yeah, in each incident - in his own words - the people tried to ''get away'' (mostly in a non-violent way). He said it got ''crazy''.

I don''t think it is an ''excuse'' in any way shape or form for what this monster did to his victims. But, at least it can be rationalized in terms of why someone could even do these terrible things. The actions aren''t even the acts of a rabid animal.

In my mind, maybe he wouldn''t commit these horrible crimes if he weren''t on PCP. He is capable on PCP. Nothing would stop him from taking the drug again. It would not affect the way I would feel about voting for the death penalty.

People put all kinds of stuff in their bodies, and it can lower inhibitions or make one paranoid and violent. Yes, it is their choice to do it, but when innocent people pay the price it pisses me off. Just part of a total package, someone who does not make decisions that are for the good of anyone. I never did drugs at all, and am not being judgemental. But certain things are known to be so dangerous. It might make it easier or possible to behave in that fashion, but I have a hard time with passing the buck...as you say, what is to say they won''t keep on doing it? What about the person with 25 dui''s who keeps drinking and getting behind the wheel, and kills people while drunk? Legal substance, abused with tragic consequences. PCP is like an animal tranquilizer. I understand someone smoking a bit of pot (like a happy hour martini) but some of the stuff people are putting in themselves? Just insane. And, there are so many people who are not high at all, just psychopathic, remorseless...no value to human life, people are not dimensional to them, they do not care how the families feel...true monsters who operate under a totally different code. I think killing Ted Bundy, for example, was the only answer in his case. Even during various arrests, he escaped, killing more people...it was just in his blood. While I can see the side that says we are killers as well if we enforce the death penalty, I bet the sorority girls, little 12 year old girl and the others he killed on his spree in Flordia would gladly have voted for it in heartbeat...

 

[phoenixgirl]

Apparently there were a few hold-outs against the death penalty, but honestly I''m glad they came around.

Yes, "I was on drugs" is just not an excuse when you''ve already killed your wife and tried to kill another man. OK, so you were stupid and took PCP. Well, after the first time when it turned you into a monster and you did something unforgiveable, that''s when you turn yourself in for help. At least, that''s what you do if you''re human.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I was reading about what the different jurors said, and I remembered what happened when I had jury duty in February. This is not related to the death penalty at all, just jury duty.

I walked in the room and there were about 30 people there already, about half black and half white . . . and they had segregated themselves by race on different sides of the middle aisle. It wasn''t like anyone knew anyone else, so who knows what psychological or cultural phenomenon was occurring. I was like, "Well I''ll be darned if I''m going to color-code myself!" and I sat on the "other" side. I think maybe people were just afraid to be the first person to do so because after that people just sat wherever and started chatting. To my mind it was a sad thing to see in 2006.

 

[Linda W]

I am with Shay. If anyone hurt or killed my daughter, or my little grandboys. Watch out!!!!!!!

Talk about a mother bear, that is me.


Linda