CVB LAD Communication?

[House Cat]

SunnyDelta,

I sincerely apologize that you are getting dragged into this thread. I hope you get taken care soon!

to clarify Erica's comment on my email being answered immediately yesterday, That email was my 3rd attempt after 13 days, of non response from the 1st attempt or 2nd attempt. The timeline started mid January when I said "go". The one CAD I received was just a visual iteration of the band with baguette pictured anyways (I said fine, I get it that you didn't have the ability to change the look to "French" cuts and it was just a picture) it did not have any specs dimensions, mm, nothing on the CAD (I assumed it was just a stock CAD design anyways - not sure why it took 2-3 weeks for that image and for me to 'approve' said image, and again I said there were no changes other than the rise off the finger is all).

Communication like other's have said is key. if you said give me three weeks to sort this out, sure, I would have not bugged you for three weeks, but will ask for update after the three weeks mark, being vague does not give a customer confidence in that you are truly vested in our projects, or being vague almost gives me a sense that you 'haven't yet" started on my project perhaps?

I've had experience with other jewelers that have messed up an order, and they quickly made my order a priority to "fix" the problem earlier than later avoiding this long delay of timeline, not adding me back into que which I have felt happened here or they have given me an option at which point to either continue the project giving me a different timeline or part ways.

Signing off. Thanks all.

It's all very familiar. Like I said before, I could write a novel.
So Sorry DandT, I hope it all gets resolved for you soon!

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here....

 

[SunnyDelta]

SunnyDelta,

I sincerely apologize that you are getting dragged into this thread. I hope you get taken care soon!

to clarify Erica's comment on my email being answered immediately yesterday, That email was my 3rd attempt after 13 days, of non response from the 1st attempt or 2nd attempt. The timeline started mid January when I said "go". The one CAD I received was just a visual iteration of the band with baguette pictured anyways (I said fine, I get it that you didn't have the ability to change the look to "French" cuts and it was just a picture) it did not have any specs dimensions, mm, nothing on the CAD (I assumed it was just a stock CAD design anyways - not sure why it took 2-3 weeks for that image and for me to 'approve' said image, and again I said there were no changes other than the rise off the finger is all).

Communication like other's have said is key. if you said give me three weeks to sort this out, sure, I would have not bugged you for three weeks, but will ask for update after the three weeks mark, being vague does not give a customer confidence in that you are truly vested in our projects, or being vague almost gives me a sense that you 'haven't yet" started on my project perhaps?

I've had experience with other jewelers that have messed up an order, and they quickly made my order a priority to "fix" the problem earlier than later avoiding this long delay of timeline, not adding me back into que which I have felt happened here or they have given me an option at which point to either continue the project giving me a different timeline or part ways.

Signing off. Thanks all.

It's all very familiar. Like I said before, I could write a novel.
So Sorry DandT, I hope it all gets resolved for you soon!

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here....

Your right Housecat, I got way too caught up in this today. I wasted an entire day at work participating in this.

If anyone would like to continue this discussion offline I am open to that. This includes you too Erica.

 

[Mayk]

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here... t.

WHY would you taunt this customer to pile on more and question her after others have shared similar stories? Insinuating she's lying or something isn't right? She's choosing to walk away after having personal business aired blow by blow. Then some posters are defending these actions. If this had been Leon people would be screaming for blood. This thread is dreadful and each time I looked at RT today this thing was bouncing back to the top. I've worked with a long line of PS vendors and nothing comes close to the details shared here. I personally would be devastated if I shared info during my purchase to see it aired. So much emotion goes into decisions like these not to mention money, stress of ordering a custom piece, expectations. Then to have continued challenges during the process would certainly add to the stress and overall satisfaction in the end regardless of the outcome of the item purchased.

 

[House Cat]

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here... t.

WHY would you taunt this customer to pile on more and question her after others have shared similar stories? Insinuating she's lying or something isn't right? She's choosing to walk away after having personal business aired blow by blow. Then some posters are defending these actions. If this had been Leon people would be screaming for blood. This thread is dreadful and each time I looked at RT today this thing was bouncing back to the top. I've worked with a long line of PS vendors and nothing comes close to the details shared here. I personally would be devastated if I shared info during my purchase to see it aired. So much emotion goes into decisions like these not to mention money, stress of ordering a custom piece, expectations. Then to have continued challenges during the process would certainly add to the stress and overall satisfaction in the end regardless of the outcome of the item purchased.

Because if there IS a novel to be written, I would like to hear about it Mayk! I am a potential customer. I am offended that you would accuse me of taunting anyone on this forum!

This poster is insinuating that there is SO much more to this story! She isn't choosing to walk away! Walking away would be to simply do just that, not to publicly make the offer to tell the rest of the story to another poster! This tells EVERYONE that there is something else to know. She is creating this environment for herself. Let her handle it... if one wants to insinuate in public, they should be prepared handle themselves in public.

 

[azstonie]

Full payment without immediate delivery would be unacceptable to me and I would ask myself what financially secure business would require it of me. My latest purchase was at a B&M, who didn't require payment until I was "happy."

ETA: I see the 50% down, 50% on completion payment policy.

The assumption that an 'heirloom quality' ring (vague, nonspecific) wouldn't hold up for me, nor would other similar assumptions used to direct attention away from failing to meet self-specified completion date.

The beat-the-client-up customer service policy is repellant.

 

[ericad]

Full payment without immediate delivery would be unacceptable to me and I would ask myself what financially secure business would require it of me. My latest purchase was at a B&M, who didn't require payment until I was "happy."

That is indeed an excellent question, I would wonder the same if it was at all applicable to me. My policy is a 50% deposit to start CAD's, and the balance upon completion (and I always send my setting clients pics of the finished ring before requesting the balance). Often times, especially with repeat clients, they choose to pay in full just to keep it simpler. But it's totally the client's choice - I have never once requested anything more than my usual 50% deposit.

This was clarified in the thread multiple times, even by the OP who conceded that she wasn't required to pay in full, but that in fact it was her choice and she did so voluntarily. Hopefully you will take the time to read the thread before jumping to conclusions.

 

[MollyMalone]

Although not reflected in Erica's quote, Aztonie had amended her post to reflect her awareness of the 50% down, 50% upon completion policy before Erica composed and posted her rebuttal. (Had she inserted her ETA afterwards, the Edited with time stamp notation would appear at the bottom of Aztonie's post.) So I have no idea why Erica thought it necessary to jump on her.

I think you're right jimmianne, but the reality is that LAD is one person - me. CvB is one person - Caysie (with me helping her). * * * It would be great to have a PR person, an admin assistant, a shipping manager and a social media rep. But then my business wouldn't be what I wanted it to be when I started LAD. But perhaps that's the direction we will need to take in order to handle the growth we are experiencing right now. But it just doesn't feel like "me" - therein lies the conundrum.

No one has suggested that you hire a platoon, but the reality is that LAD isn't all about you. Plus, weekly updates to customers who have placed orders (and letting them know that's what they can expect), would eliminate all the emails, messages, calls, etc asking for status updates which you and Caysie have been receiving & are adding to your total workload. The server & email problems need not be chronic ones.

Your emotional-philosophical conundrum is not an uncommon one for solo entrepreneurs & small businesses... actually any enterprise, be they growing or floundering, is (hopefully) revisiting, revising their vision and business plan in light of changing circumstances, not sticking with the plan they drew up before launching. I imagine there are 'net forums devoted to this topic. But it could be actually more efficient to take advantage of in-person resources.

In all likelihood, your town/city doesn't offer all the free/minimal cost workshops, etc. for solo & small businesses that New York State and NYC did, under Mayor Bloomberg (I have no first-hand knowledge of the present state of affairs in NYC), and your local US Small Business Administration office is probably not as robust as the NYC one. But if there are no government-sponsored resources in your vicinity (and even if there are) SCORE is, in my own experience and that of friends and family in New England and the Midwest, awesome.
https://www.score.org

 

[LLJsmom]

Although not reflected in Erica's quote, Aztonie had amended her post to reflect her awareness of the 50% down, 50% upon completion policy before Erica composed and posted her rebuttal. (Had she inserted her ETA afterwards, the Edited with time stamp notation would appear at the bottom of Aztonie's post.) So I have no idea why Erica thought it necessary to jump on her.

I think you're right jimmianne, but the reality is that LAD is one person - me. CvB is one person - Caysie (with me helping her). * * * It would be great to have a PR person, an admin assistant, a shipping manager and a social media rep. But then my business wouldn't be what I wanted it to be when I started LAD. But perhaps that's the direction we will need to take in order to handle the growth we are experiencing right now. But it just doesn't feel like "me" - therein lies the conundrum.

No one has suggested that you hire a platoon, but the reality is that LAD isn't all about you. Plus, weekly updates to customers who have placed orders (and letting them know that's what they can expect), would eliminate all the emails, messages, calls, etc asking for status updates which you and Caysie have been receiving & are adding to your total workload. The server & email problems need not be chronic ones.

https://www.score.org

I have been following this thread with interest. Erika, I have never purchased your pieces but I think they are beautiful. I hope you won't mind me commenting.

Without being able to tell who was at fault when and for what reason, I feel comfortable saying that Erika it seems you would not be hurt by extra help. You did say so yourself that it is "one person - me". And you do recognize that your business has grown quickly in a relatively short amount of time. That the end result is some things falling through the cracks is not surprising, and is a natural growing pain. The key is how you intend to address the issues. I don't doubt that you are trying your absolute best to be as responsive as you humanly can be while maintaining some semblance of a life. I do feel for you. It seems your volume of business is at the point where you can benefit from administrative help so that you can focus on creating and managing the process, and letting someone else respond to the many, numerous emails, updates and other small details that can take up so much of your time. I think it will serve you well personally and your business too. I have seen small business owners who have had trouble letting go of any aspect of running their business. However when it grows to such a size that it cannot be successfully managed without additional help, you end up needing to make a choice. Either get more help or restrict the amount of business you take on. Otherwise some aspect will inevitably suffer. And I can totally tell you don't want that to happen. Even just one person helping you respond to emails for four hours a day three days a week could relieve a significant amount of the workload. Good luck Erika. I hope you find a workable solution.

 

[Mayk]

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here... t.

WHY would you taunt this customer to pile on more and question her after others have shared similar stories? Insinuating she's lying or something isn't right? She's choosing to walk away after having personal business aired blow by blow. Then some posters are defending these actions. If this had been Leon people would be screaming for blood. This thread is dreadful and each time I looked at RT today this thing was bouncing back to the top. I've worked with a long line of PS vendors and nothing comes close to the details shared here. I personally would be devastated if I shared info during my purchase to see it aired. So much emotion goes into decisions like these not to mention money, stress of ordering a custom piece, expectations. Then to have continued challenges during the process would certainly add to the stress and overall satisfaction in the end regardless of the outcome of the item purchased.

Because if there IS a novel to be written, I would like to hear about it Mayk! I am a potential customer. I am offended that you would accuse me of taunting anyone on this forum!

This poster is insinuating that there is SO much more to this story! She isn't choosing to walk away! Walking away would be to simply do just that, not to publicly make the offer to tell the rest of the story to another poster! This tells EVERYONE that there is something else to know. She is creating this environment for herself. Let her handle it... if one wants to insinuate in public, they should be prepared handle themselves in public.

Her novel is NOT your business. The vendor made all of her transaction public, she shouldn't have to defend herself because you don't believe her. Maybe the parts she hasn't shared would do more damage or drag out this thread even longer. She chose to step away from the keyboard. Often in emotional communications this is NOT a bad idea.

 

[MarionC]

Lovely post, LLJs. Thoughtful.

I say kindly and hopefully helpfully --- the best response from a vendor to a client with public complaints is to just say - "I'm sorry you felt you were not well-served. I will contact you off-line to resolve things. Best regards", etc.

I know the saying "the customer is always right" is not true, but when the customer is told publically how wrong she is, it does not help a person's business.

I have done business with most of the vendors here. Things do not always go smoothly no matter how many accolades they are given here.
I have had one want me to pay for their mistake, one who told me one policy then said another policy later and yet another policy the third time, and I have had one very poor setting job.
[also...There are so called "experts" - non trade - here who recommend stones I have personally had professional vetted that do not meet reasonable performance standards].
So one must be a realist but for the most part people are good, including the talented CVB and LAD.

 

[House Cat]

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here... t.

WHY would you taunt this customer to pile on more and question her after others have shared similar stories? Insinuating she's lying or something isn't right? She's choosing to walk away after having personal business aired blow by blow. Then some posters are defending these actions. If this had been Leon people would be screaming for blood. This thread is dreadful and each time I looked at RT today this thing was bouncing back to the top. I've worked with a long line of PS vendors and nothing comes close to the details shared here. I personally would be devastated if I shared info during my purchase to see it aired. So much emotion goes into decisions like these not to mention money, stress of ordering a custom piece, expectations. Then to have continued challenges during the process would certainly add to the stress and overall satisfaction in the end regardless of the outcome of the item purchased.

Because if there IS a novel to be written, I would like to hear about it Mayk! I am a potential customer. I am offended that you would accuse me of taunting anyone on this forum!

This poster is insinuating that there is SO much more to this story! She isn't choosing to walk away! Walking away would be to simply do just that, not to publicly make the offer to tell the rest of the story to another poster! This tells EVERYONE that there is something else to know. She is creating this environment for herself. Let her handle it... if one wants to insinuate in public, they should be prepared handle themselves in public.

Her novel is NOT your business. The vendor made all of her transaction public, she shouldn't have to defend herself because you don't believe her. Maybe the parts she hasn't shared would do more damage or drag out this thread even longer. She chose to step away from the keyboard. Often in emotional communications this is NOT a bad idea.

She is making it everyone's business by publicly telling diamondseeker that she will share the novel. By doing this she insinuates that terrible things happened with regards to her transaction with LAD.

I don't like it.

LAD is a very small business. When someone insinuates poor behavior on the business owner's part, that is very damaging. I can see the potential for people to avoid LAD because MAYBE something awful happened with this one customer.

I would appreciate forthcoming behavior instead of this backhanded stuff that is going on.

Now Mayk, stop trying to police my posts and worry about yourself. Thanks.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Just one comment about a suggestion above. Weekly updates??? Um, just go ask Victor or Steven or Leon if they will give weekly updates while a piece of jewelry is being made. I can almost tell you that if you asked for that, they would just refuse the job. I have even been directly told by one of them that they refuse jobs if they foresee problems upfront.

My realistic suggestion is an email update at the 6 week mark (which begins after the 50% deposit and CAD approval) if the piece is not ready. I do not email a vendor before 6 weeks (after the design and deposit are complete) for an update. I think CVB/LAD generally has a 6-8 week timeline. An email at 6 weeks saying the bench says it will be ready soon is great. Then at 8 weeks (or sooner) another email is necessary to say the piece is either here or the bench had a problem xyz and they say it will be around another week, so sorry for the delay. I think that is reasonable, or the customer can certainly email at 6 weeks and again at 8 if the item has not arrived.

In my own last project which fell during the same timeframe as one in this thread, I did check in at 6 weeks and learned of the serious illness and eventually the subsequent death of the father of the bench person Caysie wanted to complete my ring which had caused a back-up since he was hardly working for several weeks. I told her absolutely that time was of no issue for me and to not worry about it. She fortunately added another very high end bench who quickly finished my ring. They have chosen not to use this as an excuse publicly, but I think it needs to be said.

The moral of the story is, sometimes there are things in the background that vendors don't publicize. But we are talking about people with real lives, children, parents, families. Erica and Caysie can't control deaths and cancer and worked almost non-stop trying to get an additional capable bench to add to their team. They got an excellent one. I realize jewelry is something important to most of us. But when one let's it cause them major emotional distress, I think they need to maybe step back, get a grip, and realize that it is relatively unimportant in the overall scheme of things. Learn lessons, move on.

 

[Mayk]

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here... t.

WHY would you taunt this customer to pile on more and question her after others have shared similar stories? Insinuating she's lying or something isn't right? She's choosing to walk away after having personal business aired blow by blow. Then some posters are defending these actions. If this had been Leon people would be screaming for blood. This thread is dreadful and each time I looked at RT today this thing was bouncing back to the top. I've worked with a long line of PS vendors and nothing comes close to the details shared here. I personally would be devastated if I shared info during my purchase to see it aired. So much emotion goes into decisions like these not to mention money, stress of ordering a custom piece, expectations. Then to have continued challenges during the process would certainly add to the stress and overall satisfaction in the end regardless of the outcome of the item purchased.

Because if there IS a novel to be written, I would like to hear about it Mayk! I am a potential customer. I am offended that you would accuse me of taunting anyone on this forum!

This poster is insinuating that there is SO much more to this story! She isn't choosing to walk away! Walking away would be to simply do just that, not to publicly make the offer to tell the rest of the story to another poster! This tells EVERYONE that there is something else to know. She is creating this environment for herself. Let her handle it... if one wants to insinuate in public, they should be prepared handle themselves in public.

Her novel is NOT your business. The vendor made all of her transaction public, she shouldn't have to defend herself because you don't believe her. Maybe the parts she hasn't shared would do more damage or drag out this thread even longer. She chose to step away from the keyboard. Often in emotional communications this is NOT a bad idea.

She is making it everyone's business by publicly telling diamondseeker that she will share the novel. By doing this she insinuates that terrible things happened with regards to her transaction with LAD.

I don't like it.

LAD is a very small business. When someone insinuates poor behavior on the business owner's part, that is very damaging. I can see the potential for people to avoid LAD because MAYBE something awful happened with this one customer.

I would appreciate forthcoming behavior instead of this backhanded stuff that is going on.

Now Mayk, stop trying to police my posts and worry about yourself. Thanks.

Sorry House Cat. You are not in charge of me. I think your post was an attack on someone who wanted to walk away and stop throwing mud. I still think that and you are stilling digging for dirt by asking (wait demanding) she post her novel of what transpired.

 

[soxfan]

Just one comment about a suggestion above. Weekly updates??? Um, just go ask Victor or Steven or Leon if they will give weekly updates while a piece of jewelry is being made. I can almost tell you that if you asked for that, they would just refuse the job. I have even been directly told by one of them that they refuse jobs if they foresee problems upfront.
.

I agree. Expecting weekly updates is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[House Cat]

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here... t.

WHY would you taunt this customer to pile on more and question her after others have shared similar stories? Insinuating she's lying or something isn't right? She's choosing to walk away after having personal business aired blow by blow. Then some posters are defending these actions. If this had been Leon people would be screaming for blood. This thread is dreadful and each time I looked at RT today this thing was bouncing back to the top. I've worked with a long line of PS vendors and nothing comes close to the details shared here. I personally would be devastated if I shared info during my purchase to see it aired. So much emotion goes into decisions like these not to mention money, stress of ordering a custom piece, expectations. Then to have continued challenges during the process would certainly add to the stress and overall satisfaction in the end regardless of the outcome of the item purchased.

Because if there IS a novel to be written, I would like to hear about it Mayk! I am a potential customer. I am offended that you would accuse me of taunting anyone on this forum!

This poster is insinuating that there is SO much more to this story! She isn't choosing to walk away! Walking away would be to simply do just that, not to publicly make the offer to tell the rest of the story to another poster! This tells EVERYONE that there is something else to know. She is creating this environment for herself. Let her handle it... if one wants to insinuate in public, they should be prepared handle themselves in public.

Her novel is NOT your business. The vendor made all of her transaction public, she shouldn't have to defend herself because you don't believe her. Maybe the parts she hasn't shared would do more damage or drag out this thread even longer. She chose to step away from the keyboard. Often in emotional communications this is NOT a bad idea.

She is making it everyone's business by publicly telling diamondseeker that she will share the novel. By doing this she insinuates that terrible things happened with regards to her transaction with LAD.

I don't like it.

LAD is a very small business. When someone insinuates poor behavior on the business owner's part, that is very damaging. I can see the potential for people to avoid LAD because MAYBE something awful happened with this one customer.

I would appreciate forthcoming behavior instead of this backhanded stuff that is going on.

Now Mayk, stop trying to police my posts and worry about yourself. Thanks.

Sorry House Cat. You are not in charge of me. I think your post was an attack on someone who wanted to walk away and stop throwing mud. I still think that and you are stilling digging for dirt by asking (wait demanding) she post her novel of what transpired.

Sigh.

Mayk, you are wrong about me.

Take care.

Hugs.

 

[LLJsmom]

When you are in the customer service industry it's hard. (I am myself.) You don't always get to choose the types of clients you take on. It would be safe to assume that business owners service all kinds of different clients with many differing expectations. A service provider cannot always control or manage that. You have to do your best because "they are the client". If I have said yes to the project I will need to see it through to the end, regardless of the bumps that that come along and the seemingly crazy service level expectations that may come up. Additional administrative help will allow Erika more time to deal with these blow ups that happen in most projects. It can be so many things, the client, or the bench, or the weather, or its personal, or the product or supply. It's just part of running a business. And sometimes if your best is not good enough, it just simply means that there are only 24 hours in the day and there is only one of you. Time to get help.

 

[MollyMalone]

Just one comment about a suggestion above. Weekly updates??? Um, just go ask Victor or Steven or Leon if they will give weekly updates while a piece of jewelry is being made. I can almost tell you that if you asked for that, they would just refuse the job. I have even been directly told by one of them that they refuse jobs if they foresee problems upfront.

My realistic suggestion is an email update at the 6 week mark (which begins after the 50% deposit and CAD approval) if the piece is not ready. I do not email a vendor before 6 weeks (after the design and deposit are complete) for an update. I think CVB/LAD generally has a 6-8 week timeline. An email at 6 weeks saying the bench says it will be ready soon is great. Then at 8 weeks (or sooner) another email is necessary to say the piece is either here or the bench had a problem xyz and they say it will be around another week, so sorry for the delay. I think that is reasonable, or the customer can certainly email at 6 weeks and again at 8 if the item has not arrived.

In my own last project which fell during the same timeframe as one in this thread, I did check in at 6 weeks and learned of the serious illness and eventually the subsequent death of the father of the bench person Caysie wanted to complete my ring which had caused a back-up since he was hardly working for several weeks. I told her absolutely that time was of no issue for me and to not worry about it. She fortunately added another very high end bench who quickly finished my ring. They have chosen not to use this as an excuse publicly, but I think it needs to be said.

The moral of the story is, sometimes there are things in the background that vendors don't publicize. But we are talking about people with real lives, children, parents, families. Erica and Caysie can't control deaths and cancer and worked almost non-stop trying to get an additional capable bench to add to their team. They got an excellent one. I realize jewelry is something important to most of us. But when one let's it cause them major emotional distress, I think they need to maybe step back, get a grip, and realize that it is relatively unimportant in the overall scheme of things. Learn lessons, move on.

ds, I don't have a strong opinion at what particular juncture they should start sending out updates (although I think saying it will be "soon" is meaningless); the idea is for LAD-CVB to take a proactive, routinized approach (I have not been the only one to suggest this!), so as to fend off repeated inquiries throughout the process. With about a dozen customer orders -- or even more -- in the works at any given time, that's scarcely onerous, and less so with some help brought on board.

Jewelry surely does not trump dying, illness, etc. But again, sending out an e-mail general advisory to current customers & using the auto-reply feature to alert others that there might be a delay in responding would eliminate the more time-consuming task of responding to individual inquiries or ignoring inquiries entirely, leaving current or prospective customers wondering, if not disgruntled.

P.S. This has been an eye-opening thread for me in more ways than one, but especially because my 3 custom projects were with goldsmiths whose designs & fabrication were-are (like Victor, Steven, and Leon) all done in-house and completed before the post-order 6-8 week ETA.
I've been surprised by the seemingly more luck of the draw fulfillment of orders that can happen when the casting/forging, finishing, and setting work is done by outside benches, e.g., soxfan received her Casablanca ring from LAD 3 weeks ago, 5 weeks after she first showed us the CADs for her pear, while the replacement batch of French cuts for DandT's older Riveria order was eventually done in mid-March and she is still awaiting her ring.
Erica has explained that

much of [our] jeweler's production time is simply due to jobs which are in the queue ahead of yours, which can change from one week to the next

& it never would have occurred to me that my position in the queue could get pushed back once I was in the pipeline. So I'm thinking I'll start a thread in Hangout whereby we all might gain (I hope) a better understanding of the process involved/the interplay between at least some of the retailing vendors and their outside benches.

 

[msop04]

Just one comment about a suggestion above. Weekly updates??? Um, just go ask Victor or Steven or Leon if they will give weekly updates while a piece of jewelry is being made. I can almost tell you that if you asked for that, they would just refuse the job. I have even been directly told by one of them that they refuse jobs if they foresee problems upfront.

My realistic suggestion is an email update at the 6 week mark (which begins after the 50% deposit and CAD approval) if the piece is not ready. I do not email a vendor before 6 weeks (after the design and deposit are complete) for an update. I think CVB/LAD generally has a 6-8 week timeline. An email at 6 weeks saying the bench says it will be ready soon is great. Then at 8 weeks (or sooner) another email is necessary to say the piece is either here or the bench had a problem xyz and they say it will be around another week, so sorry for the delay. I think that is reasonable, or the customer can certainly email at 6 weeks and again at 8 if the item has not arrived.

In my own last project which fell during the same timeframe as one in this thread, I did check in at 6 weeks and learned of the serious illness and eventually the subsequent death of the father of the bench person Caysie wanted to complete my ring which had caused a back-up since he was hardly working for several weeks. I told her absolutely that time was of no issue for me and to not worry about it. She fortunately added another very high end bench who quickly finished my ring. They have chosen not to use this as an excuse publicly, but I think it needs to be said.

The moral of the story is, sometimes there are things in the background that vendors don't publicize. But we are talking about people with real lives, children, parents, families. Erica and Caysie can't control deaths and cancer and worked almost non-stop trying to get an additional capable bench to add to their team. They got an excellent one. I realize jewelry is something important to most of us. But when one let's it cause them major emotional distress, I think they need to maybe step back, get a grip, and realize that it is relatively unimportant in the overall scheme of things. Learn lessons, move on.

Thanks for this post, DS...

I have followed this thread, and I just feel for all involved. I love jewelry and think it should always make people feel happy. I know that it is a passion for Caysie and Erica, and I do feel like "things just happen" (regardless of what those things may be)... It really sucks when said things effect the client or client's timeline, but sometimes that's just part of it... life happens.

I adore Caysie and think she is a total sweetheart. She is an artist and has a great eye. She has also been extremely understanding with me (I'm probably what one would consider an "overly messaging client" -- so sorry, Caysie!!) Obviously, I'm very excited to work with CVB/LAD for my new setting. Although I'm a pretty impatient person, I also know that it will be perfect, and, fortunately, I don't have a "deadline" looming, per se. That said, I can totally understand where it would be frustrating for all involved when timelines aren't met -- client and vendor. It's just an unfortunate situation, and I hope that everything can be worked out for all involved. I also hope that both clients end up very happy with their pieces when all is said and done, regardless of how things have transpired thus far...

 

[ericad]

Just one comment about a suggestion above. Weekly updates??? Um, just go ask Victor or Steven or Leon if they will give weekly updates while a piece of jewelry is being made. I can almost tell you that if you asked for that, they would just refuse the job. I have even been directly told by one of them that they refuse jobs if they foresee problems upfront.

My realistic suggestion is an email update at the 6 week mark (which begins after the 50% deposit and CAD approval) if the piece is not ready. I do not email a vendor before 6 weeks (after the design and deposit are complete) for an update. I think CVB/LAD generally has a 6-8 week timeline. An email at 6 weeks saying the bench says it will be ready soon is great. Then at 8 weeks (or sooner) another email is necessary to say the piece is either here or the bench had a problem xyz and they say it will be around another week, so sorry for the delay. I think that is reasonable, or the customer can certainly email at 6 weeks and again at 8 if the item has not arrived.

In my own last project which fell during the same timeframe as one in this thread, I did check in at 6 weeks and learned of the serious illness and eventually the subsequent death of the father of the bench person Caysie wanted to complete my ring which had caused a back-up since he was hardly working for several weeks. I told her absolutely that time was of no issue for me and to not worry about it. She fortunately added another very high end bench who quickly finished my ring. They have chosen not to use this as an excuse publicly, but I think it needs to be said.

The moral of the story is, sometimes there are things in the background that vendors don't publicize. But we are talking about people with real lives, children, parents, families. Erica and Caysie can't control deaths and cancer and worked almost non-stop trying to get an additional capable bench to add to their team. They got an excellent one. I realize jewelry is something important to most of us. But when one let's it cause them major emotional distress, I think they need to maybe step back, get a grip, and realize that it is relatively unimportant in the overall scheme of things. Learn lessons, move on.

ds, I don't have a strong opinion at what particular juncture they should start sending out updates (although I think saying it will be "soon" is meaningless); the idea is for LAD-CVB to take a proactive, routinized approach (I have not been the only one to suggest this!), so as to fend off repeated inquiries throughout the process. With about a dozen customer orders -- or even more -- in the works at any given time, that's scarcely onerous, and less so with some help brought on board.

Jewelry surely does not trump dying, illness, etc. But again, sending out an e-mail general advisory to current customers & using the auto-reply feature to alert others that there might be a delay in responding would eliminate the more time-consuming task of responding to individual inquiries or ignoring inquiries entirely, leaving current or prospective customers wondering, if not disgruntled.

P.S. This has been an eye-opening thread for me in more ways than one, but especially because my 3 custom projects were with goldsmiths whose designs & fabrication were-are (like Victor, Steven, and Leon) all done in-house and completed before the post-order 6-8 week ETA.
I've been surprised by the seemingly more luck of the draw fulfillment of orders that can happen when the casting/forging, finishing, and setting work is done by outside benches, e.g., soxfan received her Casablanca ring from LAD 3 weeks ago, 5 weeks after she first showed us the CADs for her pear, while the replacement batch of French cuts for DandT's older Riveria order was eventually done in mid-March and she is still awaiting her ring.
Erica has explained that

much of [our] jeweler's production time is simply due to jobs which are in the queue ahead of yours, which can change from one week to the next

& it never would have occurred to me that my position in the queue could get pushed back once I was in the pipeline. So I'm thinking I'll start a thread in Hangout whereby we all might gain (I hope) a better understanding of the process involved/the interplay between at least some of the retailing vendors and their outside benches.

Actually, you misunderstood me, my apologies if I didn't explain properly. I meant CvB/LAD jobs in the queue. Let's say that this week I take in 8 orders. And next week you order, so there are 8 jobs ahead of yours (plus any others that came in earlier). But a month from now there might 15 jobs coming in the week before yours, which will impact whether or not your piece is ready closer to the 6 week mark or the 8 week mark. Volume of CvB/LAD orders will impact delivery time, which is why I give an estimate and no delivery times are a guarantee, though 90% of the time we are able to deliver orders within 8 weeks. It's only when there's an occasional curve ball thrown at us that we run behind. This is also the reason that my policies state no rush orders will be guaranteed - best efforts basis only, and even then I'm very reluctant. I won't bump other jobs from their place in line, because that wouldn't be fair.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

They have benches that excel in different things (just as MANY jewelers do), so my job for a pave ring and a job for a band, for example, might go to different benches. If the queue was short for one bench, then yes, a job submitted after mine might be completed first. Plus, one piece may require custom cut stones and one doesn't. That means one may take longer than another. I find this to be the absolute BEST way to do it.

 

[BeekeeperBetty]

I've ordered many handmade custom items that take months to complete, some of which have been very popular and have waiting lists that are years long. I have found that these companies generally have a web page that they update weekly or biweekly that let's people know where they are in the process. Some companies use order numbers to keep it private, and some use first and last initial or whatnot. But having a link that customers can look at will save you a lot of time responding to e-mails and keep customers happy because they know what is going on.

Throwing your customers under the bus when there are complaints looks unprofessional. If this had been another vendor, DBL comes to mind, the pile on would have been epic. But for some reason some vendors here are untouchable, and any problems are always the customer's fault.

 

[chrono]

Throwing your customers under the bus when there are complaints looks unprofessional. If this had been another vendor, DBL comes to mind, the pile on would have been epic. But for some reason some vendors here are untouchable, and any problems are always the customer's fault.

I noticed this as well. For me, because I've seen how LAD has responded to customers in the past, I made my decision long ago to not conduct any business with this company. Even if the customer (I am not inferring to anyone in this thread) is wrong, there are ways to steer it forward. Playing the blame game only makes it look worse. No vendor is perfect and it is unrealistic to expect so. It is how the vendor responds that builds and cements their reputation.

DandT and SunnyDelta,
I am sorry about your experiences and hope it will end satisfactorily for both of you.

 

[ame]

Ok, I am probably going to be a strong and very unpopular opinion, and go a bit against the grain here, but what the hell else is new. Brace thineselves.

I think when complaints are aired, the vendor either remains silent and is assumed guilty or they try to defend themselves and people get mad. So they are kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't. I do feel vendors have the right to reply to public complaints, though.

SD, I didn't take it that Erica was trying to make you look like a nuisance customer. I think she is addressing the problems you expressed regarding communication and is trying to show that there was plenty of communication. But bottom line, I am truly sorry there were problems with your order and the ring had to be remade delaying it's arrival to you. I know that must have been a disappointment. I am sure Erica and Caysie were and are sincerely sorry, too. That is certainly not their desire since they are in this business by choice as it is what they love. You apparently accepted the remake when it arrived, yet now you are expressing that you are very unhappy, and Erica has offered to take the ring back and refund your money. I think that is very generous, and I hope you get the label quickly so you can send the ring back, get your money back, and move on and get the ring of your dreams. I look forward to seeing it!

I agree that they're kind of between a rock and a hard place. It's not fair that they get such blowback for defending themselves and providing proof. Where's the line for them? Where's the line for a consumer? I feel like in this particular instance the line keeps being moved for Erica and that's not fair.

Regarding the other points I italicized: SD your story doesn't add up. But regardless of that, she's been incredibly gracious, and offered you a ridiculously generous offer. Accept it and move on. The fact that you haven't thus far tells me that you're happy with the ring and creating drama for the sake of creating drama.

Why am I saying the last part? Because you aired just enough personal details about the transaction to dangle a carrot, made accusations about not only the transaction and how she operates her business and then made accusations about her character, and she has every right to come here and clarify details. You don't get to just bash a vendor that posts here one-sidedly without backing it up, and especially can't expect them to not come here and try to defend themselves. It's not like you're speaking into a vacuum here. This is a living and breathing environment where you're going to get feedback.

I don't actually feel that she went over the top with personal information, if I may be so blunt. But you're not being particularly forthcoming with actual facts, for someone who is throwing rocks. Ok, enough of that "if I may be" I am going to be. Hold on to the magic carpet.

You said an awful lot without actually saying more than "it's a novel" and "I'll share it off the board." NO. You started cooking the steak, now you finish it. Either ONLY with Erica and Caysie in private, or you clear it up in here for everyone. None of this with a select few BS. This behind the curtain bullshit around here has to stop. Because she's a poster on this forum, she is given the opportunity to rebut it, and she did so, providing details of the transaction, even if they weren't favorable to her, and she admitted to you that her company made a mistake. Not only did she admit the mistake, she went even further: her company sent that ring that was made incorrectly to you ANYWAY so you had something to wear while they remade the new one and you said you loved it , that's admissible evidence that you, in fact, *were* a happy customer, despite the in-writing fact that you yourself got caught trying to manipulate them into moving up the timeline when you claimed your fiance was disappointed that you couldn't get the ring sooner and you got him mixed up in an "internet scam " causing strife in your relationship. That was on you! You shared that information with her in an attempt to manipulate her and the process, and I think it's perfectly fair that she shared that information to defend her reputation after you came on here and tried to discredit her and her business. You're just mad that she called you out for being dishonest. And even so, she's offered to buyback your rings, refund your money, and move on. That's BEYOND generous, and you're STILL on here going off on a tangent about all this stuff we supposedly don't know that could fill a novel which occurred within 290 emails.

That brings me back to my suspicion that you're actually happy with the ring and just posting salacious commentary to stir the pot.

It's all very familiar. Like I said before, I could write a novel.
So Sorry DandT, I hope it all gets resolved for you soon!

How about you write that novel? I think many of us are interested.

You go into painful detail when it is convenient for you, but then state you are too worn out or not going to mudsling when all eyes are on you to share the truth of your story...the real details.

You have had many opportunities on this thread alone to share the details of your story.

Something isn't right here....

I agree. Erica clarified quite a bit, but you're dangling a carrot, without any actual facts, other than what's convenient, or what makes you look like a victim.

Your right Housecat, I got way too caught up in this today. I wasted an entire day at work participating in this.

If anyone would like to continue this discussion offline I am open to that. This includes you too Erica.

The only offline discussion should be with Erica and Caysie. No one else. If you're going to continue discussing it, do it in the open here, or with only those two.

Her novel is NOT your business. The vendor made all of her transaction public, she shouldn't have to defend herself because you don't believe her. Maybe the parts she hasn't shared would do more damage or drag out this thread even longer. She chose to step away from the keyboard. Often in emotional communications this is NOT a bad idea.

Actually, the vendor didn't make the entire transaction public,but she made enough pertinent details public to rebut many accusations--some of which sound unfounded and absurd. However I am not any of these parties, don't know any of these parties, nor have I worked with LAD or CvB. I've never consulted with any of them about any projects, either.

But when accusations like this get lobbed at a vendor, and it gets going like this, I don't have an issue with this level of information being made public since the accusations were made against the vendor regarding many of these points, and it seems in the case of SD's transaction, her stories were changing along the way regarding the satisfaction of the final products.

Believe me, I get being disappointed in a transaction and with an end product. I might have the record on working with vendors and with resets and remakes and hissyfits. I think I have finally turned the corner on that though. And I've posted negative reviews more than once of a vendor, but this takedown of a vendor is just fcking insane. While several may find it unprofessional that Erica referenced communications with clients, I actually found it was fair in this instance. She also admits that she made mistakes both here and in those emails, and she admits that she did so to these clients, and that said clients acknowledged those mistakes and communications. In SD's case, she was offered a full refund/return, for chrissake. I don't know how that could possibly go any better for you, SD? I mean, what the hell else do you want from the vendor? Does she need to fly to you and personally collect it from you, kiss your feet and hand you the cash in person? I mean, this is just ridiculous.

Workloads ebb and flow, you cannot control health/death, you cannot control when a rush of work comes in, estimates are not always accurate, and vendors and bench jewelers have lives outside of producing our jewelry, too. Shit happens. This can happen with literally any other vendor. ...I feel like in this exact moment, with that last paragraph. I hit that "zen" stage my husband has been waiting for me to hit. Of course if I ever buy or order any more jewelry, I'll be a nutcase again. But whatever.

 

[chrono]

In SD's case, she was offered a full refund/return, for chrissake. I don't know how that could possibly go any better for you, SD? I mean, what the hell else do you want from the vendor? Does she need to fly to you and personally collect it from you, kiss your feet and hand you the cash in person? I mean, this is just ridiculous.

I must have missed the part about the full refund / return offered. I would have accepted this offer graciously, parted ways and never looked back.

 

[ame]

In SD's case, she was offered a full refund/return, for chrissake. I don't know how that could possibly go any better for you, SD? I mean, what the hell else do you want from the vendor? Does she need to fly to you and personally collect it from you, kiss your feet and hand you the cash in person? I mean, this is just ridiculous.

I must have missed the part about the full refund / return offered. I would have accepted this offer graciously, parted ways and never looked back.

It was on page one.

Here, I quoted it. I mean, Erica admitted the mistake they made on the ring, they even sent it to her to let her see it and wear the thing while they remade the other one, and she outright said she loved it, despite remaking the other one with the changes. I don't know what else Erica can do to appease this person who seems to have been manipulative and dishonest at every freaking turn.

Oh No Sunny- I hope you got something beautiful out of it

I think its more the promise and lack of delivery/acknowledgement of emails. When I email to ask "Please provide status?" and I get a response "will check on it, and get back to you" a week later, I still haven't heard a peep, then I have to ask again about status... "remember you'd get back to me?" and I get a response back "band will be done soon" that was in mid March

Anyhoo, supposedly it will be done this week, but I've heard that before.

Thanks DandT,
I eventually did get a ring, but the journey was so extremely stressful that it ruined most of the excitement surrounding our engagement and caused a lot of tension at home. Like you, I also paid in full (upfront) and felt like I was being held hostage by the end of the project. When it comes to lack of communication, missed deadlines, delays, egregious mistakes, and excuses....I experienced and heard it all! It was literally a nightmare.

My take away from the experience is that there are definitely two personalities involved. I rarely communicated with Caysie, but when I did, she was reasonably prompt, polite, and responsive. Erica was the opposite, often ignoring my inquiries or selectively answering only some questions. Like you, I also experienced a honeymoon period with LAD, where during the initial courtship phase she was amazing, attentive, almost too friendly and very involved. I also noticed (and was baffled by) the immediate switch in her behavior once I wired the money. By the end of the project I felt neglected, and to be frank, that she just wasn't paying attention anymore (to me or to important details pertaining to the ring). I was often left hanging feeling frustrated, confused, and at times angry.
In a way, the bad experience was my fault too because I did notice a lot of red flags during the beginning of the project. I choose to stay the course because I was excited, emotionally invested, had received a substantial discount, and mistakenly believed it was only going to be "a few more weeks".

Many times I felt the desire to vent on PS, but never did because there was another poster (who ordered a "Chloe" solitaire I believe) who turned to PS to vent during the exact time period I was having my LAD disaster. Her story was picked apart by some PSers and by Erica. She was made out to be a nuisance-personality, which who knows, maybe she was because there are certainly two sides to every story (even this one).....but at that time I had already experienced so much stress both with the ring and in my personal life (some job & health issues) that I decided to let it go for my own sanity.
It's been a few months and while I'm still not interested in mudslinging or fighting over the "who, what, when, where, and how's" of what happened to me, I do feel the PS community deserves to know that "something might be up" or that "maybe they aren't the only ones" when it comes to issues with this vendor.

I do think Erica has good taste in diamonds and offers fair prices. I also feel that Caysie does beautiful work. I am trying to love my ring. I do however regret the purchase and will likely have it reset in the future to try and "reset" the negative emotional cloud it cast over my engagement. I know that sounds a little dramatic, but it's honestly how I feel.

Sorry for rambling...I wasn't trying to high jack your thread. Just know you are not alone in your feelings or experience. I hope your project turns out well!

SunnyDelta,

You approved your CAD's on Nov 3rd. You then admitted that you told your fiance it would be ready by Thanksgiving, which I very clearly explained would be impossible for a custom setting. We corresponded about the production time frame extensively, and I even sent you copies of our correspondence where I clearly told you that the ring would take 6-8 weeks from CAD approval. You then began emailing Caysie asking that the ring be ready faster, and when I asked you why you said it was because you promised your fiancee and it's causing problems at home, that he feels you sent "his money" to some shady online company, that you've "strung him along since summer because of the whole James Meyer debacle" (which had nothing to do with CvB/LAD), etc. I will admit that you suggesting my business was somehow dishonest or shady was very offensive to me, but I did my best to put your mind at ease during a time when, frankly, there's nothing to do but patiently wait for the ring to be finished.

The ring was finished on January 8th. That's about 9 weeks, including three major holidays and related closures during the industry's busiest time of year, so it was completed within the promised production window. Due to a problem that we had regarding the proportions of the basket motif, which was our fault entirely (and for which I apologized profusely), we then immediately offered to remake the ring for you, but first we shipped the solitaire to you at our expense so that you and your fiancee could see it in person, have the opportunity to make other changes, and to see your OEC because you had bought it sight-unseen. Upon receipt you raved about the diamond and the setting and told me that sending it put your minds at ease, and we proceeded with the remake to correct the problem area in the basket. You seemed completely happy.

At your request, we sent the job to the new jeweler we hired, because you were very taken with a sample ring he had just finished, so the remake went to a different jeweler than the one who made your band (which, in hindsight, was a mistake due to subtle differences in how each jeweler does his metal work). The remade ring was completed on Feb 25th. Upon receipt, you told me that you loved the solitaire but didn't like the wedding band, so I refunded you in full for the band. At every step we have been accommodating and tried our best to make you happy. To hear that your gorgeous solitaire makes you so miserable is a shock, to be honest, because despite a couple of bumps in the road, I thought you loved your solitaire and diamond and have been happily wearing it for the past 2 months.

Since you have such terrible feelings about it, I will gladly buy the ring and diamond back from you. Just shoot me an email letting me know when you'd like to return it, and I will send you a label and refund you in full. I'll happily take it back into my inventory and find a new home for it, since it's causing you so much unhappiness and, as you said, has become a dark cloud hanging over your engagement, which I would never want for any of my clients.

I'm also sorry that you felt at times I was "too friendly" and then at other times I guess not friendly enough - it's hard to maintain the same exact tone across many emails and periods of time. I never intentionally ignored or selectively answered only parts of your emails - we corresponded a lot during your project and I always tried to be prompt and thorough - if I ever overlooked a specific question, or answered 9 out of 10 things - a simple reminder was all it would take to get an answer because I most likely just missed answering that particular question. There's no conspiracy there, I assure you.

 

[SB621]

I wasn't going to comment but For AME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chrono]

Thanks, Ame. I applaud any vendor who offers a return with a full refund. That said, I still don't feel comfortable with how the dialogue played out the last 3 pages.

 

[Laila619]

In SD's case, she was offered a full refund/return, for chrissake. I don't know how that could possibly go any better for you, SD? I mean, what the hell else do you want from the vendor? Does she need to fly to you and personally collect it from you, kiss your feet and hand you the cash in person? I mean, this is just ridiculous.

I must have missed the part about the full refund / return offered. I would have accepted this offer graciously, parted ways and never looked back.

The full refund is very generous. I would have that ring back in FedEx's hands so fast.

 

[ame]

No kidding. Hasta la vista!

I wasn't going to comment but For AME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Ame. I applaud any vendor who offers a return with a full refund.

I absolutely agree. And considering it's custom work, it would be from the start, but given the circumstances now, it's more than generous.

Vendors screw up. I've ****ed up. It happens. It's happened to me. It will happen to others. It is the cycle of bling. A mere mention on this site will make a vendor's business absolutely go through the roof. Keeping up with all of our appetites is not easy, especially during holidays, holy days and wedding rush seasons. But don't post something salacious without proof to back it up, because you can damn well expect a vendor is going to have their ducks in a row and call you to the carpet.

And let me be TOTALLY CLEAR HERE:
I do not have a dog in this game. I have no ill will against SB or DandT or anyone else who feels slighted by this or any related situation, nor do I favor Erica/LAD/Caysie. I just could not read through this thread without feeling like Erica was getting absolutely lambasted with what seemed like an awful lot of not-exactly-forthright information, and given that, I felt she handled it fairly calmly and professionally, in fact, despite comments to the contrary.

 

[marym]

I wholeheartedly agree with Ame as well!!!