Dad shot dead in Florida home during newborn’s homecoming

[justginger]

Re: Dad shot dead in Florida home during newborn’s homecomin

People who do not like guns perceive them as evil. This is the reason they are so vehement in their advocacy of gun control.

I see no difference between a parent whose child dies by an gun accident in the home and one whose child dies by drowning in their pool. Many more children die from drowning in the family pool than accidentally shooting themselves or another child. Both require an element of irresponsibility on the part of the parent. But personal responsibility is out the window sad to say.

Great example. Pool safety is legislated here as well. Legally all pool owners must have an automatically 'swing shut and lock' mechanism to their pool gate, and pool fencing requirements are strict (height, construction, materials, etc). Furthermore, all access to the pool area must also be automatically locking - my ex-in laws were required to have their back sliding doors be spring loaded to automatically close and lock. Like guns, pools are not banned - but they are dangerous, even to wandering children, and are thus very heavily regulated.

 

[msop04]

People who do not like guns perceive them as evil. This is the reason they are so vehement in their advocacy of gun control.

I see no difference between a parent whose child dies by an gun accident in the home and one whose child dies by drowning in their pool. Many more children die from drowning in the family pool than accidentally shooting themselves or another child. Both require an element of irresponsibility on the part of the parent. But personal responsibility is out the window sad to say.

Great example. Pool safety is legislated here as well. Legally all pool owners must have an automatically 'swing shut and lock' mechanism to their pool gate, and pool fencing requirements are strict (height, construction, materials, etc). Furthermore, all access to the pool area must also be automatically locking - my ex-in laws were required to have their back sliding doors be spring loaded to automatically close and lock. Like guns, pools are not banned - but they are dangerous, even to wandering children, and are thus very heavily regulated.

FWIW, many of the drownings that have taken place at home pools have been due to kids climbing over 6"+ fences to use a neighbor's/friend's pool -- I'm sure alcohol and drugs have been involved more often than not... that's illegal too, by the way. LOL. I'd love to see the mandates on a fence that will keep teenagers out! HA!

Legislation only goes so far, otherwise we'd have it for anything and everything... giving us the perfect crime free, worry free world we all dream of... wouldn't that be nice??

 

[nkarma]

Re: Dad shot dead in Florida home during newborn’s homecomin

People who do not like guns perceive them as evil. This is the reason they are so vehement in their advocacy of gun control.

I see no difference between a parent whose child dies by an gun accident in the home and one whose child dies by drowning in their pool. Many more children die from drowning in the family pool than accidentally shooting themselves or another child. Both require an element of irresponsibility on the part of the parent. But personal responsibility is out the window sad to say.

Great example. Pool safety is legislated here as well. Legally all pool owners must have an automatically 'swing shut and lock' mechanism to their pool gate, and pool fencing requirements are strict (height, construction, materials, etc). Furthermore, all access to the pool area must also be automatically locking - my ex-in laws were required to have their back sliding doors be spring loaded to automatically close and lock. Like guns, pools are not banned - but they are dangerous, even to wandering children, and are thus very heavily regulated.

FWIW, many of the drownings that have taken place at home pools have been due to kids climbing over 6"+ fences to use a neighbor's/friend's pool -- I'm sure alcohol and drugs have been involved more often than not... that's illegal too, by the way. LOL. I'd love to see the mandates on a fence that will keep teenagers out! HA!

Legislation only goes so far, otherwise we'd have it for anything and everything... giving us the perfect crime free, worry free world we all dream of... wouldn't that be nice??

I am really sick of the argument that criminals break laws and therefore we should have none. We have them to deter. Even if there were a small percentage of lives saved with prevention laws like gun control, pool safety, etc...let's still respect the value of that one life. Let's also respect that there were studies done on prevention and the appropriate people put those preventions into place to make the best effect on society as whole. People still die in car crashes, guess the seatbelt, airbags, etc.. were dumb ideas. It's not an all or nothing game.

Really to those who think guns should not be controlled, abolished, or regulated at all because the bad guys will still get them, are you really posing that everything should be legal because the bad guys still get those too? Or am I not getting it?

 

[redwood66]

Re: Dad shot dead in Florida home during newborn’s homecomin

People who do not like guns perceive them as evil. This is the reason they are so vehement in their advocacy of gun control.

I see no difference between a parent whose child dies by an gun accident in the home and one whose child dies by drowning in their pool. Many more children die from drowning in the family pool than accidentally shooting themselves or another child. Both require an element of irresponsibility on the part of the parent. But personal responsibility is out the window sad to say.

Great example. Pool safety is legislated here as well. Legally all pool owners must have an automatically 'swing shut and lock' mechanism to their pool gate, and pool fencing requirements are strict (height, construction, materials, etc). Furthermore, all access to the pool area must also be automatically locking - my ex-in laws were required to have their back sliding doors be spring loaded to automatically close and lock. Like guns, pools are not banned - but they are dangerous, even to wandering children, and are thus very heavily regulated.

FWIW, many of the drownings that have taken place at home pools have been due to kids climbing over 6"+ fences to use a neighbor's/friend's pool -- I'm sure alcohol and drugs have been involved more often than not... that's illegal too, by the way. LOL. I'd love to see the mandates on a fence that will keep teenagers out! HA!

Legislation only goes so far, otherwise we'd have it for anything and everything... giving us the perfect crime free, worry free world we all dream of... wouldn't that be nice??

I am really sick of the argument that criminals break laws and therefore we should have none. We have them to deter. Even if there were a small percentage of lives saved with prevention laws like gun control, pool safety, etc...let's still respect the value of that one life. Let's also respect that there were studies done on prevention and the appropriate people put those preventions into place to make the best effect on society as whole. People still die in car crashes, guess the seatbelt, airbags, etc.. were dumb ideas. It's not an all or nothing game.

Really to those who think guns should not be controlled, abolished, or regulated at all because the bad guys will still get them, are you really posing that everything should be legal because the bad guys still get those too? Or am I not getting it?

I don't think anyone here on either side of the arguement has suggested not having any laws or any regulation. It is certainly not a game. There are laws that exist that should be enforced. If a scumbag is arrested or stopped and has illegal weapons he should be prosecuted but all to often they are released too soon and back on the streets. I am all for stiffer penalties but that introduces a whole host of problems with housing and cost that states are not willing or have the funds to bear.

 

[packrat]

Re: Dad shot dead in Florida home during newborn’s homecomin

I don't know *any* all or nothing people in the gun debate, in my personal life. I know people who say, we need to do something, but what? I know people who are fed up, throwing their hands in the air b/c when someone IS arrested---is it the public that decides what happens? Nope. There's a whole slew of people in the justice system that take it from there. When my husband arrests someone and throws everything he possibly can at the person, to get them OFF the streets...ask me how many times it turns into "welllllll it's his first offense...weeelllllll this penalty seems too harsh...welllll this....wellll that. Ask me about the little kids that have had some of THE most horrendous things done to them and wellllll yanno, I mean jeez....and my husband comes home wanting to vomit b/c of what people are allowed to get away with. Kids, guns, drugs, whatever. It's never ending. There are laws. and there are gradients of those laws. He's done gun searches to get ILLEGAL guns off the streets and out of the hands of drug dealers etc...those people have their fricken ears to the ground. They KNOW. No guns. Did they disappear into thin air? Nope. Another piece of shit is storing them until the cops are gone and you can't search 20 pieces of shits houses at once.

Nobody here is saying since criminals can get guns nothing should be done and there shouldn't be laws b/c they'll do shit anyway. Well..*I* say that but that's me being sarcastic b/c there seems to be a whole heckuva lot of non personal responsibility in the world. Nobody wants to be told NO. I've said that 400 times. So. Maybe we should just throw laws out the window and let stupid people **** themselves up and just be done w/it. You want to do heroin and become a vegetable walking the streets? Well, have at it dumb ass. You want to get drunk and climb a fence and drown? Well I guess then your genes of stupidity won't get passed on now will they?

Christ. People act like those of us who are not proponents of a full on gun ban think it's funny when kids and adults are killed. We're not sitting around having a Mike's Hard Lemonade by the fire pit "ohh yeah dude didja see that one kid got mowed down the other day by that crackhead? OMG ha that was so fricken awesome" ****agoddamned****ingduck people.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Dad shot dead in Florida home during newborn’s homecomin

the laws exist already and the info is in data bases for all legally owned weapons.
the problem is the lack of enforcing those laws AND checking the data bases [why in the world did the deputies in Isla Vista not check prior to making the visit to the perp's apartment?!].



this country has a Bill of Rights: most countries do not.

that same Bill of Rights means that all US citizens have rights....even the bad guys.

those rights are not given to us by the Bill of Rights: they are inalienable/unalienable.

 

[aljdewey]

Re: Dad shot dead in Florida home during newborn’s homecomin

I am really sick of the argument that criminals break laws and therefore we should have none. We have them to deter. Even if there were a small percentage of lives saved with prevention laws like gun control, pool safety, etc...let's still respect the value of that one life. Let's also respect that there were studies done on prevention and the appropriate people put those preventions into place to make the best effect on society as whole. People still die in car crashes, guess the seatbelt, airbags, etc.. were dumb ideas. It's not an all or nothing game.

It shouldn't be an all or nothing game, but it feels like that's what being called for by some (not all) who favor the 'nothing' side. It's already not an 'all' game, because many states do have gun restrictions in place, so 'all' doesn't exist today anyway.

When we're talking about new legislation, the challenge is it has to be a good fit for the greatest bulk of society. Every pro-firearms person I know believes in the value of single individual human lives, but the role of societal government is meant to serve society, not just a few of its members. Is it right to deny 99.999% of the population who are law-abiding gun-owners in the name of the very few?

That's really the question, and it's why your comparison to seatbelts and airbags doesn't work. Seatbelts and airbags are additions made to cars that add safety for car crash victims without stripping away anything from other drivers who don't crash. The more appropriate analogy would be "since some small number of people die in car crashes, let's pass laws that make it much harder for people to own cars, restrict which types of cars they can own, and restrict how much gas they can buy for those cars." Trust me - that legislation would be met with much passionate resistance too. (And even that is a deficient analogy because cars are a necessity to daily living in a way that firearms are not).

Really to those who think guns should not be controlled, abolished, or regulated at all because the bad guys will still get them, are you really posing that everything should be legal because the bad guys still get those too? Or am I not getting it?

I'm not the targeted audience for your question (because I do believe there are legislative remedies that could be implemented to effectively curb some of the issues), but I do not think there is a single one-size-fits-all solution. My feeling is that societal government shouldn't be empowered to strip rights away from the overwhelming majority who abide the law in the name of trying to achieve an unachievable goal on behalf of the few.