Dealing with flaky friends

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Anyone have them? I do. One of my BFFs is a lovely, wonderful, kind person that I love like a sister, but holy crap is she incapable of ever committing to a plan. In her defense, sometimes the situation can't be helped - but over the last two months about 1 meet-up plan (of half a dozen) has actually happened. Sometimes she just can't, sometimes she'll totally just change her mind (in which case it IS her own decision), sometimes she'll pre-commit to something and of course, she can't later. Without going into specifics, because it's just annoying, what would you do?

I'm frustrated enough that I just don't want to make plans with her anymore, and every time we do commit to hanging out, I am 90% sure it's not going to happen (and most of the time I'm correct). She's not a bad friend or a bad person - she's just EXTREMELY flaky.

Add to that that I'm the type of person who hates to be canceled on, and likes to make plans in advance.... is there a "going up the wall" emotie here?

Suggestions?

ETA: Did I mention that she like NEVER answers her phone? It's always dead...or in the car... or somewhere else.

 

[iugurl]

I am just guessing that you are the one to call her, email her, text her, invite her, etc. She probably never calls you or invites you to do anything. Am I far off?

If I am right, I have had friends like that before . Most of those friendships have ended. Not necessarily because of an fight or some "thing", but I just got tired of being the only one who ever put any effort into the friendship. I would stop calling and inviting those type of people to hang out. I would wait to see how long it took them to realize they haven't seen or talked to me in awhile. Sometimes they would call after a few weeks, sometimes they would never call (or not for MONTHS and MONTHS).

Now I realize such "friendships" are NOT friendships. They are not worth the time that I spent worrying about them or the effort I put into calling, leaving voicemails (that were rarely returned), making plans, and rescheduling plans. If someone wants to be your friend, they will TRY to be your friend. I am sorry, but she does not sound like a true, real friend. If she wanted to talk to you, she would call or email. If she wanted to spend time with you, she would ask you to hang out, and then would actually keep the plans, not cancel. I can understand canceling due to emergencies, but obviously that is not the case.

Basically, I would do absolutely nothing. I would stop initiating any sort of conversation with her. Again, if she wants to talk to you, she will call you. I would stop trying to do anything. See if she tried to be friends with you. If not, then obviously she doesn't care.

If she is the one calling/inviting you... well I don't know what I would do. I don't think I would continue making plans with her without some sort of action, due to her flakiness. Perhaps, I would tell her that I am a busy person also and I don't have the time to constantly make plans but have them canceled at the last minute. Therefore, the next time I make plans with her, I really need her to show up and not cancel. But I would word it nicer than that

 

[Sam121]

I have dealt with flaky 'friends' a lot of times before, and I know how it feels to be disappointed again and again. I utilize a '3 strikes' rule - If they flake out on me up to 3 times and not for very legitimate reasons as well, I just relegate them to acquaintance status, and I stop bothering. Like what iugurl said, if they value your friendship, they will at least try to return your call, catch up with you etc.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ditto the above or just make last minute plans with her since she is so flaky she might put off someone else for you then.

 

[JewelFreak]

I've had friends like that & usually they're great fun when we do get together, but in the long run it becomes not worth the effort & I just let them drift away. I've realized that as different as our attitudes are to a time commitment, many of our other values or opinions don't jibe either. People like that are often fairly self-centered: your time (or disappointment) just isn't important enough to them to think about. Other folks find it hard to say No, so you propose something, they agree, knowing they won't carry through. Neither type is raw material for a lasting friendship.

As suggested above, try leaving it up to her for a while. If she doesn't get in touch, you'll probably find you care less & less. It doesn't make her a bad person, just somebody you can't count on to keep a promise -- & you'll find more satisfaction hanging with your other buds.

--- Laurie

 

[GamerGirl]

I used to have a friend like this -- when we got together (on one of those oh so rare occassions when the planning actually worked) it was like we were sisters. Talk about everything, have a blast. When we didn't get together I never heard from her, she would respond to only every second or third email ( and I would only be emailing about once a week maximum). She actually brought it up once - saying how she was soooo busy and had been such a bad friend to a bunch of us lately and that she was really going to try to do better - no change. I just figured, if I was important enough to her she would contact me. So I stopped emailing/calling and I think I have heard from her twice in the last couple of years.

She is a facebook "friend" and not much more at this point. That way we can stay in touch but I don't have to waste so much energy trying to make the friendship happen. Gives me more time to focus on the friends who spend their energy on me too

 

[iLander]

It's 2 things;

1)she is a narcissist; they have no empathy for other people or their own effect on them. It's selfish, plain and simple.

2) she is spoiled, and never had anyone do this to her so she doesn't know how it feels. Which results in number 1.

Flaky is a kind excuse for rude behavior, but it's still rude.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

My BFF can be like that sometimes. Usually our plans are broken up by her husband, who is controlling and jealous. When we make plans I never "pen" it in my calendar, but rather pencil it in since I never really know if she is going to show up or text some excuse about her husband needing his a$$ wiped. Before she got married, it was her dad that would thwart our plans. He needs a sandwich, the laundry done, etc. She gets taken advantage of very easily, obviously. We have been friends since 7th grade and since we're so close I've brought up my observations to her several times and while she promises to do something about it nothing ever seems to happen. I love her like a sister and know that I am the person that she is closest to so I put up with it because I don't want her to get hurt. I'm her rock so to speak.

 

[vintagelover229]

I had a friend like that once. She was one of the coolest most fun people to be around too. We got along great but she already had her "party" or "going out" friends. She knew I was new in town but never invited me shopping with her or her friends (which was fine). The only time she hung out with me we always ended up hanging out with two of her guy co-workers (one she dated and still liked. A little background she'd been with her bf/fiancee now husband since 13 and we were 19-22 when we knew each other. Her bf broke up with her for a little while and she dated a co-worker. He found out and wanted her back so they split and she got back with him. Another thing to note is she was beautiful and these guys are like...uh yeah. Not in the same hotness league at all. Shes now happily married to her bf though).
I came to the conclusion she only wanted to hang out with me bc I would keep my mouth shut (easy to do when I don't co-mingle with any of her group). So when I moved and I couldn't make it to her wedding she told me (idk if she was joking or serious) that it was OKAY to just SEND HER GIFT. FYI I asked this girl to be a BM in my wedding and she flaked out (not to mention the numerous plans she'd flaked out on) and never sent US a gift (not that I cared but when she said I was like ummm no).

Yeah, I ended that one sided friendship. I wasn't sad but was disappointed bc other than being slightly selfish and some what of a flake she was a really cool person. If the work is all done by you trying to set up etc. I'd let it go. One sided friendships are exhausting and who wants to be friends with someone who doesn't care half as much about the friendship as you do. There are plenty of other cool people who aren't flakes to hang out with to waste your time on the ones that aren't willing to maintain the friendship.

 

[iota15]

Yup, like the girls here, I've had this friendship. Still do. Earlier in my youth (more than 15 years ago now), I think I was "that girl" for a while too, so I can see both sides of the coin.

When I was "that girl", my BFF came up and talked to me about - straight up, no holds bar about how it made her feel. I flaked out on her a few times, and I made sure to never do that to her again (and happily, I can say I didn't). We're still great friends many years later.

It really comes down to being way too selfish to care about other people or their time. You don't think of it that way when you decide not to show up - but really, that's what it boils down to. I'd rather do X (wash my hair, work, take care of my pet, etc.), than get up and go see N, who is ready and practically standing at the movie theatre. It is totally selfish.

With the friend I currently have that is this way, I know he thinks the world of me - but I flat out told him, we're all busy and I am certainly no exception. We all make priorities in life and at some point, if you love me like family (like you say you do), you have to make me a priority over (getting groceries for your mom, writing your thesis, and on and on down the list). If other things are lower on the priority list, then you'll have to do them some other time or not at all. Because that's what I do for you. And when you make me sit there and wait for you for hours, or cancel last minute - well, I could have readjusted things I had to do, or used my luxury rec time on someone who makes me a priority. My rec time is very precious to me, and if you valued me, that time should be precious to you too.

Now, it took a few tries over time but it did work... with him. However, as I was speaking with a guy, I could probably be a little more down and dirty straight up with him.

If you haven't yet, speak to your friend - candidly and frankly. If it doesn't work, then well, you have your answer with respect to your friendship. But it's better to have spoken up first, then to let a good friendship expire because at this point in their life, your friend is just too wrapped up in herself. Although, with all of my looong time friendships, I find there are waves of more contact and less contact over the years. Maybe you're just having one of those periods of "less contact".

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Iugurl - She does call or email to set up coffee dates, etc. but the thing is, she rarely follows through - something always happens to get it canceled, or she changes her mind and the plan about 50 million times to the point where I'm confused about where and when the heck we're meeting. She's one of my two best friends from high school and we've always been close - I was MOH at her wedding. And I've always been the one to put in the effort to keep in touch with both of them (and that's fine). But we live in the same town now! I know she has a husband and work and her parents live in town, but I guess I'm just feeling like the friendship has become really uneven lately. And of course, she's TTCing now so I can imagine how much more unbalanced it'll be when she does have a baby (but then again I'll have moved by that point).

Sam121 - She does try. And if it was any other friend (i.e. not one of my two best friends) I would've cut the cord long ago.

Stone-cold - Ugh, that's the other thing - last minute plans rarely work because I can never get in touch with her because she never answers her phone.

JewelFreak - exactly. It's a lot of fun when we're together, but lately I only ever see her at the gym.

So that's kind of where some of the other bitterness for me comes from. Because our yoga class is always early evening and she's usually rushing in from work, I've always laid her mat out for her. Our class gets crowded. Once she never showed, didn't call, or text. She did have a work issue, but I would've appreciated a heads-up (so that I could clear her mat and let someone else have the space). She knows I always have my phone on me.

The other issue is something she said a while back that stuck with me, which is that she can always ignore my texts and not respond if she doesn't want to meet up, or something of that sort. Considering she DOES do this a lot that does piss me off. Since she also did this when I was sick and lonely (when she's sick and lonely I bring her food and tea) I guess there has been a little bit of suppressed resentment on my part. And of course she reaches out more when her husband is away and she's lonely. Blah.

GG - Omg, that sounds EXACTLY like this situation! And I have other friends here in town but they're all new acquaintances really, from this past year. I did stop inviting her to ski with us on the weekends because she could never make it, so it just stopped being worth the bother. I don't know - we've been friends for over a decade. I would hate to lose that, but once I leave in June and then she has a baby, I can't imagine the friendship staying the same even when I'm back home. And this makes me really sad Btw, the crazy busy excuse - I have friends who are attorneys in NYC. THEY are busy. My friend has busy times (which I respect) but honestly, compared to them, she is not that busy.

iLander - Oh I don't think she's a narcissist. She's just ... not quite as considerate? I think it's more that - she knows we've been friends forever and she expects that I will forgive her for pretty much anything. And she is not an aggressive person at all. She's not good at standing up for herself (and that is 180 to me - and you can see this difference in approach in many different aspects of life). And part of it is that she's not good at standing up for herself or her time when her family gets really really insistent about doing XYZ at a certain time, and that might conflict with our plans. And I get that. But on the other hand... she's an adult, she's married, she has her own life and will soon have a kid, so she needs to learn to assert boundaries I guess.

DivaDiamond - Exactly. And talk about being taken advantage of - there are a few things my friend has done that make me go WTF. Like she and her husband bought an old house two years ago, and it needs renovations. They hired a company. A brand new company with new referrals. Why? Because they were new, and she and her husband were new to town (moved back to our hometown) and if it were them, she would want someone to give her a chance, so she's going to give them a chance. Yeah, the company stole her $5K deposit (they're not rich btw), she and her DH just filed a lawsuit in small claims, and two years later the house is still not done.

Vintagelover - Oh man! That does not sound like a real friend at all! Yes, it is exhausting, and that's what I'm feeling. I'm just getting tired of making the effort - actually amend that, I AM tired of the effort already. I just hate to feel this way because she is one of my good friends. But it does say a lot that she's not the first person I turn to when in a crisis or something exciting happens ...

Iota - I think that's a good idea, speaking to her. I don't want to sever anything without having a talk with her. But, and this is my wussiness speaking, I am leaving in less than 2 months - should I just hold my peace, grit my teeth, and ride it out? I won't ever be back home for more than a month I think after this move....

Thank you all - I so appreciate your advice, and hearing your experiences and knowing I am not alone!

 

[VRBeauty]

Please don't hate me because I'm -- sometimes -- flaky.

 

[Gypsy]

Please don't hate me because I'm -- sometimes -- flaky.

Me too. I'm moody. Sometimes something that sounds like a blast for weeks... one day (usually the day before or day of) just sounds... meh, not so hot.

I've cancelled on people I love to pieces, so it's not that it's plans with people that I'm not close to. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood to do... whatever.

Especially if it involves a lot of driving (anything over 20 minutes), or getting dressed up fancy with makeup, or (heaven help me) both.

 

[zoebartlett]

BEG -- I haven't read the other replies yet so I may be repeating others' advice.

You mentioned that your friend isn't a bad friend but she's just flakey (flaky?). To me, someone who cancels on you 90% of the time and who you can't really count on IS a bad friend. My mom has someone in her life who is like this. They've been friends since before I was born. They make plans and my mom ALWAYS tells me that she just knows this person is going to cancel. And guess what? She does. It's always one excuse or another. I'm surprised my mom hasn't written this woman off yet but she hasn't.

Friendships shouldn't be one way streets. It might not always be 50/50 but it's frustrating when you're putting in all the effort and your friend isn't reciprocating.

 

[zoebartlett]

I hate it when people use the busy excuse. Everyone has busy lives; everyone has stuff going on. It's important though to make time for your friends. I forgot to mention earlier that I've had these kinds of friends too and it's draining. Have you told your friend how you feel? If anything, it might make you feel a little better to get your thoughts and feelings out there.

 

[JewelFreak]

The other issue is something she said a while back that stuck with me, which is that she can always ignore my texts and not respond if she doesn't want to meet up,

The end of that sentence, I assume, is "....because you always come back (for more)," right? In other words, she knows she can take you for granted, no thoughtfulness necessary.

I don't see why you have to formally sever the friendship, BEG, maybe just stop doing all the work. If she doesn't make an effort then, let things drift. You might talk to her about it & hope that helps -- at least she'll know her cavalier treatment of you hurts, which shouldn't need to be said to what I'd call a real friend. I think you're right that things will naturally cool once the baby comes (after you've been required to admire it).

I've had friendships like that too -- eventually let them float away. The last one where that happened was somebody I'd known since 4th grade & by then we were in our 40s. She called me but only at around midnight when she was smashed, to talk for 2 or 3 hrs when I had to go to work in the a.m. Finally I told her I just had to get some sleep, could she call earlier....and haven't from her in 20 yrs. My heart still has fondness for her, I wonder where she is, but don't regret letting something go that wasn't authentic anymore.

--- Laurie

 

[Gypsy]

I don't know. I'm kinda getting offended at the assumption that just because you flake occassionally you are a horrible, inconsiderate, self centered person.

BEG, this isn't geared toward you. Rather some of the posters that have responded.

People flake on me. I don't think about it twice. I certainly don't question my friendships with them. I don't think they take me for granted or that they are selfish narricists or whatever. I don't even think about it as flaking. Just... a change in plans. I see you when I see you, when we can both make it. I don't need to see you every week or even every YEAR to know that you love me. I call you when I call, otherwise you call me. And I don't keep track of how many times who has called who or whose turn it is to call. Just too much stress.

I don't flake on important stuff. As long as you tell me what is important to you or I know what is important to you, I will be there if I can. And if I can't your just going to have to deal. Or let me know that something upset you, and I'll make sure to remember that in the future.

Frankly, if a friend of mine can't deal with the fact that I'm occassionally gonna "flake"-- I think that it's THIER issue, not mine. You want to stop being friends with me because of whatever has pissed you off (and that you've kept to yourself and are passive aggressively holding against me) and you can't just talk to me and say, "Hey Gypsy, it's important to me that if you say you are going to be there you are there." or HOWEVER YOU WANT TO SAY IT (if you are that worried about it) -- you probably aren't worth MY TIME in the first place.

Sheesh people. Sh*t happens. Plans change. Deal.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Thanks Gypsy!

 

[Gypsy]

Anytime babe.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Gypsy - haha no big. It's not like I'm super secretive on here or anything. But just in case.

VR & Gypsy - being flaky is ok. Having flakiness as your defining attribute because it happens 9 times out of 10 - that's becoming less ok in my book (and really only in regards to this one friend). Because I feel like I've tried really really hard to be a good friend, to be there, to make plans, to include her if I'm doing stuff with other friends (because let's face it, she doesn't have a ton of friends, especially not real friends, in town and I'd love to include her in my new group of friends because I'm leaving but she's staying here), to not change plans or cancel excessively...and after months of her flaking out on me (repeatedly) I'm just getting tired.

That said, she IS a good friend when I DO see her. She's supportive, she listens to my drama (and believe me I have plenty of it), we have lots of fun...it's just getting to the place where we're actually in the same place at the same time!

JewelFreak - I don't want to sever the friendship and I don't intend to. We've been friends too long, and after I move, it becomes far more of a moot point, right? I am worried that once she does have a kid (because our other best friend and I are so not even close to being ready for THAT - she's light years ahead of us on the domesticity front) that we really won't hear from her ever. But take that as it comes...

 

[Autumnovember]

I'm going to be totally honest here about my own perceptions on people who flake and break plans....

This isn't meant to offend anyone, rather it is my own thoughts.

I don't take people who are flaky seriously (and I'm not saying flaky once in a while). Not ever. For a million and one reasons.

I cannot stand when people break plans, it drives me up the wall and I tend to cut those friendships out of my life fairly quickly when I see that the individual is a flake. I want no part in that. I can honestly say that none of my friends are flaky because any that were flaky, I've stopped talking to.

That being said, I don't expect friends to see my every single week or once a month or whatever or call me X amount of times. I do expect my friends to keep plans with me when they're made. If it is a friend I rarely see and she flakes on me when we DO make plans, thats not cool. If it is a friend who I see on a weekly basis and she can't make it to something...its different.

 

[iugurl]

@Gypsy, I don't think everyone who cancels plans is a bad friend. But when you say occasionally, what do you mean? Like 1% of the time? 20%,50%, 80%?

Sure if it is a low number, then sure it is ok. Another question, how much time do you give in advance? Do you cancel a day before or an hour before?

I would get annoyed with anything less than a day, if it was at my house. My house is normally clean, but when people come over, I go into clean-freak mode. I clean EVERYTHING from top to bottom of my whole house. It takes me hours. I would be irritated to have them cancel an hour before, when I cleaned and also prepared food for hours. Sure, that is my choice. I choose to super-clean the house and make food. Guests did not make me. But I did it for THEM. I made pies or whatever to make them happy.

If it was to go see a movie or something, then an hour or two (or more) would be ok. I often meet people in Indianapolis (1 hour away) so if I were to be meeting them there, I would want more notice.

I disagree with is this:
""Hey Gypsy, it's important to me that if you say you are going to be there you are there." or HOWEVER YOU WANT TO SAY IT (if you are that worried about it)"

I think it goes without saying that if someone makes plans with you on X date at X place, then obviously they want you to be there, and it is important that you show up... Otherwise they wouldn't make plans with you!

But that is your opinion, you have a right to that

I don't keep track of who called who last or who initiated plans last. However, if I call someone the last 15 times, over 6 months, and they are "busy" and can't hang out but they say they'll call me when they have a free weekend but don't I would notice. Or if I would leave voice mails that are never returned. I would stop making effort to spend time with them, since obviously don't care enough to make a 60 second call back or a 20 second text message. If they are busy with work or something, I can understand not making plans (but they still have time for the quick call/text message). If they don't work or have to study on the weekends and just wanted to make other plans every single weekend for 6 months straight, even when they knew I wanted to do something, then yeah I would be annoyed.
Edited to add: Everything in this post is just my opinion. I don't mean to offend or disrespect anyone. And autumnnovember, I agree w/ your post.

 

[CJ2008]

I'm definitely on the "flake" side of the equation.

Mostly, I think it's because I'm moody. And I'm not that social.

When I make plans, in the moment, it sounds great. But usually, as it gets closer to the date...yeah...there are tons of other things I'd rather do. And even though giving in to the mood probably is selfish, and self-centered, and about not putting people on top of my priority list...I would still choose that over meeting up with someone if I didn't feel like it. Most of the time - sometimes I do push myself because we've had the plan for a long time, or because I really would like to see the person, etc.

But when I cancel, I don't cancel last minute. And I do feel like I definitely do respect other people's time. And I do consider myself a good friend in the sense that I'll be always be there for the serious stuff, for when someone needs to talk, etc. But I am definitely not the best friend to "hang around" with too often.

ETA: B.E.G. - you asked for suggestions and I took up the whole post talking about me. Here are my thoughts based on what you said:

- she may love you - to death - but maybe you're asking her to hang out too often. She may simply not be that social (the fact that she never answers the phone is a BIG hint - I never answer mine either.)
- accept the friendship/friend for who she is - someone you can count on for everything - not so much for just "hanging out."
- be honest with her. tell her how you feel, but that you want to understand her, too, and want to see how you guys can compromise so you don't feel like she's taking you for granted yet she doesn't feel pressured to hang out. Maybe sometimes she accepts because she feels bad saying no? Honesty and trying to understand each other for who you really are is a big help.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

Be considerate of my time and money. That's all I ask. Sure, plans change or things happen, and that's fine with me. But if I'm standing at the movie theatre, and you just don't feel like coming anymore and couldn't be bothered to decide this an hour ago when I still could have done something else, then I won't be making plans alone with you anymore just in case it happens again. If I've already purchased the tickets to the play because you said you would go, then you decide you'd rather go to your grandmother's that weekend, you need to offer to pay me for the ticket without me having to ask. Plans can be fluid, and I'll change my mind from time to time as well, but when your decisions affect others, you should have the common courtesy to be considerate of their time and money.

 

[CJ2008]

Be considerate of my time and money. That's all I ask. Sure, plans change or things happen, and that's fine with me. But if I'm standing at the movie theatre, and you just don't feel like coming anymore and couldn't be bothered to decide this an hour ago when I still could have done something else, then I won't be making plans alone with you anymore just in case it happens again. If I've already purchased the tickets to the play because you said you would go, then you decide you'd rather go to your grandmother's that weekend, you need to offer to pay me for the ticket without me having to ask. Plans can be fluid, and I'll change my mind from time to time as well, but when your decisions affect others, you should have the common courtesy to be considerate of their time and money.

Guilty:

I agree with everything you said 100%.

I think there are different levels of what we're talking about - any of the above scenarios are inexcusable. I would have no desire to hang out with someone like that - ever.

 

[Gypsy]

@Gypsy,
I disagree with is this:
""Hey Gypsy, it's important to me that if you say you are going to be there you are there." or HOWEVER YOU WANT TO SAY IT (if you are that worried about it)"

I think it goes without saying that if someone makes plans with you on X date at X place, then obviously they want you to be there, and it is important that you show up... Otherwise they wouldn't make plans with you!

Let me explain why I disagree with the logic that if someone makes plans with you then they want you to be there AND WILL BE OFFENDED IF YOU DON'T SHOW UP.

There are plans and there are PLANS.

"Let's grab dinner this week" is a plan. So is "We're hanging around the house, we'd love it if you stop by on Saturday to see the kids" and "I need to go to the mall this weekend, I'd love some company."

That stuff... I figure you are going to be doing X anyway... whether or not I am along. You are going to dinner, hangout, and shop. I am an accessory. Sure, you'd have fun if I come along, but it's not like I missed your bridal shower.

That stuff you can flake on me too. You decide you know what... I gotta stay late at work this week b/c whatever and I'm not going to make dinner except at the drive thru, I'd rather go to the beach on Saturday, or I just don't want to go shopping.

Then there are group plans. You have a group of ladies that you go out with once a month. Everyone is going to go out whether or not I come, sure you'd love to have me, but I'm not essential to the plans. I can skip this month because I'd rather read a book. You can do the same to me.

Then there are PLANS. You get a babysitter for the kids and we have reservations at a local place for a couples night out, we buy tickets to a concert we both want to go to, it's your bridal shower and I'm a bridesmaid or your close friend (not just a plus one invite to the wedding), Your having a pot luck and I'm the one that's supposed to provide the main dish. Those are PLANS. Unless my husband or I am really ill (and even if the husband IS ill, if he's okay on his own I'll probably come anyway), or my plumbing goes to hell, or something that can't be avoided.... I'll be there.

I love my friends, and YES shopping is better with them, going out for yogurt and gossip is fun... but it's not like it has to happen on a set time line. I can do those things with you next week. Or the week after.

But if money is committed or anything else like that... if something is a PLAN-- then yeah I get you on not the flaking.

But if it's just one of those plans that's more an "I'd like some company" than a PLAN... I might just cancel. But I will try to tell you as soon as I know that I'm gonna cancel.

BUT IF YOU TELL ME "I NEED YOU"... and you are going nutz because your husband is driving you up the WALL and YOU HAVE TO VENT or you are gonna do something you regret, or you NEED help because your kids are sick and you are alone, or SOMETHING that changes a plan to a PLAN. TELL ME. I won't know otherwise. That's what I mean when I say that you need to tell me. Because otherwise how am I supposed to know that "Let's go shopping this weekend" means "I need adult time because I've been stuck in a house with a 5 year old for a week and I'm starting to use baby talk with Comcast."

People can't read your mind. Even your friends. Sometimes you think something is a PLAN and I'm thinking it's a plan and we get our wires crossed and feelings get hurt. But if I care about you and you tell me, "Gypsy I know our plans were tentative but I REALLY NEED GIRL TIME," I'll be there.

Does that make more sense?

 

[iugurl]

"Let's grab dinner this week" is a plan. So is "We're hanging around the house, we'd love it if you stop by on Saturday to see the kids" and "I need to go to the mall this weekend, I'd love some company."

I don't really consider those plans. "Let's have dinner this week" - well that is not a specific night... that sounds more like "we need to hang out sometime..." does that make sense? If it was, let's have dinner Friday, and you agree - those are plans IMO. "This week" is really vague and noncommittal.

"We're hanging around the house, we'd love it if you stop by on Saturday to see the kids" - again those don't sound like actual plans. More like, if you want stop by, if not ok too, and then you probably reply, sure if we have time or I need to check w/ Mr. Gypsy and I'll let you know later in the week. So again, noncommittal.

The third one, I consider plans. Assuming she says what day she wants to go and you say yes that sounds good, I can make it. If she says it on Monday, but doesn't text/call until 5 pm Saturday, saying hey lets go at 600 tonight, ok those aren't really "plans" IMO.

"But if I care about you and you tell me, "Gypsy I know our plans were tentative but I REALLY NEED GIRL TIME," I'll be there."
What do you consider tentative plans and concrete plans? When they are "tentative" do you say "maybe" or "I'll let you know" or "I need to see what is going on first" or something like that... Or do you say sure! But in your mind, decide it is a maybe, so the other person doesn't know that the plans are tentative? Because if you never committed to coming, and said maybe, then you really aren't flaking or ditching them. But if you told them you were going, but changed your mind that is flaking!

I guess I don't really make such sorta/kinda plans. Most of the time, I call someone and say we need to hang out, how about this weekend? Then they will say sure how about Saturday. Then we will say ok, how about you come at 5 and we can go eat out, and go see a movie or play games, whatever we feel like that day. Or I'll meet you to eat somewhere at noon, then we can head to the mall for a few hours, then maybe see a movie after... Then they'll say ok sounds great Or some variation of the above. Normally it is not maybe we can hang out. But if we did, then those weren't really plans to begin with. I guess I consider "plans" that both parties agree to do something on a certain day, not both parties say maybe we will do something, maybe not...

 

[zoebartlett]

Gypsy -- I don't think it's a matter of flaking occasionally. It's the consistency factor. If someone (especially a close friend) told me they'd do X (whatever we had planned) and kept backing out, especially at the last minute, I'd begin to question the friendship after a while. To me, that says that the person doesn't care enough about me or the friendship to hold up his/her end. Plus, it sends a message to me that says that the person doesn't value my time either.

I've had friends like this, and not to sound like an 8 year old, but my feelings have gotten hurt. I put a lot into my friendships. I know things come up and plans need to be cancelled, rearranged, whatever, once in a while. I'm talking about time after time of thinking I could count on someone only to be disappointed. I believe this is what BEG's referring to (not to put words in your mouth though, BEG, so correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[Gypsy]

Okay well, I make a lot of 'sorta/kinda' plans. The kind of plans that aren't confirmed until the day of or the day before. I make the other sort- firmer plans-- as well. But most of the time it's:

Do you want to do X?
I don't know... sounds good, let me call you and let you know by Y.
Or
How about I call you that morning and we'll see what kind of trouble we can get into.

I'm good about commiting to call to confirm or reject plans. But It's 50/50 which one I will chose to do.

Most of the plans I make tend to be "kinda sorta" plans. My friends have adapted to that, or most of them are the same way. I dislike planning too many things too far ahead.

Oh, and I always pay someone back if they've had to put out money for my attendance. Cancelling doesn't change the fact the money was spent.

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy -- I don't think it's a matter of flaking occasionally. It's the consistency factor. If someone (especially a close friend) told me they'd do X (whatever we had planned) and kept backing out, especially at the last minute, I'd begin to question the friendship after a while. To me, that says that the person doesn't care enough about me or the friendship to hold up his/her end. Plus, it sends a message to me that says that the person doesn't value my time either.

I've had friends like this, and not to sound like an 8 year old, but my feelings have gotten hurt. I put a lot into my friendships. I know things come up and plans need to be cancelled, rearranged, whatever, once in a while. I'm talking about time after time of thinking I could count on someone only to be disappointed. I believe this is what BEG's referring to (not to put words in your mouth though, BEG, so correct me if I'm wrong.)

I agree that if someone is consistently disrespectful of your time and your feelings then you need to re-evaluate. All I'm saying is... sometimes you need to speak up and let someone know that they are hurting you. If they are your friend, maybe they were oblivious and will stop and change, or maybe they don't change and then you know where you stand.

And you don't sound 8 hon. I get it. And I've felt that way too.