Declawing cats. UGH! I had no idea.

[msop04]

We had two cats when I was little and both were declawed in the front. They were indoor/outdoor cats (mostly indoor) and had no problems catching things, climbing fences, or defending themselves. One lived to be 15 and the other 19.

I now have two exclusively indoor cats. I looked into getting them declawed, but never did. Not because I thought it was cruel, I just never got around to it. I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying that, but oh well. What I have to go on is my experience with declawed cats. I would never ever consider it for cats that went outdoors, though.

I have had 4 cats (3 declawed). The only reason Lola wasn't declawed is because I had to give her to my aunt due to her being happier in a "one cat home" -- just didn't have the time to get her declawed. My cats have never had any trouble (thankfully)... they were given a pain patch to be worn for a couple of days after surgery. Flame away.

 

[ForteKitty]

Not flaming, but just because the cats didn't "appear" to be in pain, doesn't mean they weren't actually living with residual pain every day of their long lives. They are very good at hiding pain.

 

[missy]

Not flaming, but just because the cats didn't "appear" to be in pain, doesn't mean they weren't actually living with residual pain every day of their long lives. They are very good at hiding pain.

I agree and also not blaming anyone here but in my experience no veterinarian I ever met would say declawing is a good idea. They might say if it was between putting the cat down vs declawing then go ahead and declaw but I never personally knew one to suggest it for no reason let alone promote it.

I am not calling anyone a liar in this thread -not at all- but just saying not all or even most veterinarians are horrible and uncaring towards animals.

Disclaimer- my sister is a veterinarian so I have know a lot of vets in my life and I have also had pets for 48 years (my mom got our first dog when she became pregnant with me) so I have some experience with veterinarians.

 

[msop04]

Not flaming, but just because the cats didn't "appear" to be in pain, doesn't mean they weren't actually living with residual pain every day of their long lives. They are very good at hiding pain.

Really?? What do they say to you??

In all seriousness, I don't think my animals are in any pain whatsoever. They are super happy and healthy... despite my 15 year old being a chubby baby.

 

[missy]

Mahatma Gandhi — 'The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.'

We have a very very long way to go.


msop, they are very good at hiding pain. They don't have to speak to tell us this yanno? I mean anybody who loves animals and have them as members of their family should get this. That they communicate with us in other ways. Words are not necessary. I know part of your post is tongue and cheek (at least I think it is) but it's not too funny to joke about mutilating an animal. And I don't intend to come across in a mean way but just want people to realize the seriousness of declawing. You already did it and you cannot undo it but moving ahead these are the facts.

 

[ForteKitty]

Not flaming, but just because the cats didn't "appear" to be in pain, doesn't mean they weren't actually living with residual pain every day of their long lives. They are very good at hiding pain.

Really?? What do they say to you??

In all seriousness, I don't think my animals are in any pain whatsoever. They are super happy and healthy... despite my 15 year old being a chubby baby.

You don't have to be snarky. I wasn't a bitch to you, was I?

Cats can be living with a lot of painful symptoms of illnesses while exhibiting no outward signs of pain. You can ask any vet that.

 

[msop04]

Not flaming, but just because the cats didn't "appear" to be in pain, doesn't mean they weren't actually living with residual pain every day of their long lives. They are very good at hiding pain.

I agree and also not blaming anyone here but in my experience no veterinarian I ever met would say declawing is a good idea. They might say if it was between putting the cat down vs declawing then go ahead and declaw but I never personally knew one to suggest it for no reason let alone promote it.

I am not calling anyone a liar in this thread -not at all- but just saying not all or even most veterinarians are horrible and uncaring towards animals.

Disclaimer- my sister is a veterinarian so I have know a lot of vets in my life and I have also had pets for 48 years (my mom got our first dog when she became pregnant with me) so I have some experience with veterinarians.

It's a good idea when you're saving an animal's life. I'm sure if you asked the animal to choose, he would choose to be declawed and remain alive, safe, and loved. Not calling names at all... just stating that choosing to declaw a cat doesn't make you the meanest person ever. If vets were against it because it's so inhumane and will cause pain to the animals forever, then I'm quite certain they would be very much against it, no? Vets are realists. They realize that in order for many to have a cat, it needs to be declawed to have a home.

Most all the vets/vet students I've asked (which is a lot, since they tend to work as pharm techs near AU's vet school) have told me that a successful declawing would feel like a nail being cut deep into the quick, but wouldn't cause any lasting pain once the inflammation is gone and they are healed. I can only go by their expertise. I know there are horror stories, but that is the case with pretty much everything in this world.

 

[justginger]

Not flaming, but just because the cats didn't "appear" to be in pain, doesn't mean they weren't actually living with residual pain every day of their long lives. They are very good at hiding pain.

Really?? What do they say to you??

I take animal abuse, which declawing IS, deadly seriously, so am happy to rise to your bait. Once. Feel free to ignore me because I'm not going to check for a response - this topic upsets me too much, and it will only deteriorate from this constrained reply.

A comparison to this outrageous justification (they 'seem' like they feel fine!): we chop off the last digit of all your fingers, give you a bit of morphine for a while, and then if you are unable to communicate to your cat, in her vocalisation method, that you have sore days over the rest of your life, we'll all assume you feel great.

 

[missy]

msop, You are misinformed plain and simple. Declawing is mutilation and it is inhumane. Period. Justify it however you want and as I said you cannot undo what you have done and I understand you didn't know how horrible it was to do but moving forward if you can just open your mind to the possibility you were misinformed and never declaw again that would be a win for any future animals you might make part of your family.

 

[monarch64]

Yeah....I... Msop, I don't think someone who owns declawed cats is the meanest person in the world. However, your attempt at being tongue-in-cheek or humorous about it kind of goes over like a turd in a punch bowl. The practice of de-clawing is considered animal cruelty in many countries. I don't necessarily draw the conclusion that declawing a cat=horrible owner, but I find it difficult not to think differently about someone when they outright laugh about something that so many consider very repulsive. Just seems really disrespectful, I guess. But it's Saturday evening. Maybe you're just relaxing and it came out wrong.

 

[msop04]

Not flaming, but just because the cats didn't "appear" to be in pain, doesn't mean they weren't actually living with residual pain every day of their long lives. They are very good at hiding pain.

Really?? What do they say to you??

I take animal abuse, which declawing IS, deadly seriously, so am happy to rise to your bait. Once. Feel free to ignore me because I'm not going to check for a response - this topic upsets me too much, and it will only deteriorate from this constrained reply.

A comparison to this outrageous justification (they 'seem' like they feel fine!): we chop off the last digit of all your fingers, give you a bit of morphine for a while, and then if you are unable to communicate to your cat, in her vocalisation method, that you have sore days over the rest of your life, we'll all assume you feel great.

I understand if you feel that way... If it's such a terrible and inhumane thing to do, then why do vets perform these procedures day in and day out? I'm not sure what the vet's version of the Hippocratic oath is, but I'm pretty sure it would follow the same idea of "first, do no harm" -- however, I'm not a vet.

 

[kenny]

If vets were against it because it's so inhumane and will cause pain to the animals forever, then I'm quite certain they would be very much against it, no? Vets are realists. They realize that in order for many to have a cat, it needs to be declawed to have a home.

Most all the vets/vet students I've asked (which is a lot, since they tend to work as pharm techs near AU's vet school) have told me that a successful declawing would feel like a nail being cut deep into the quick, but wouldn't cause any lasting pain once the inflammation is gone and they are healed.

I can only go by their expertise.

Uhm no.
You can question authority, and follow the money.
You can also consider that 22 more-human countries have banned cat declawing.
In America money/lobbyists/trade associations rule, not ethics or morals.

Vets are influence by the $1,000 an hour they get to declaw cats, and there is huge demand from people who care about their furniture more than their cats.

Two parties win.
One loses.
The cat.

 

[msop04]

msop, You are misinformed plain and simple. Declawing is mutilation and it is inhumane. Period. Justify it however you want and as I said you cannot undo what you have done and I understand you didn't know how horrible it was to do but moving forward if you can just open your mind to the possibility you were misinformed and never declaw again that would be a win for any future animals you might make part of your family.

It is absolutely possible that I've been misinformed. However, it's kind of disturbing to believe that veterinarians would perform a procedure on an animal that they know to be so cruel and abusive, KWIM??

 

[msop04]

Yeah....I... Msop, I don't think someone who owns declawed cats is the meanest person in the world. However, your attempt at being tongue-in-cheek or humorous about it kind of goes over like a turd in a punch bowl. The practice of de-clawing is considered animal cruelty in many countries. I don't necessarily draw the conclusion that declawing a cat=horrible owner, but I find it difficult not to think differently about someone when they outright laugh about something that so many consider very repulsive. Just seems really disrespectful, I guess. But it's Saturday evening. Maybe you're just relaxing and it came out wrong.

I wasn't meaning to be disrespectful at all, so I apologize if my comments were taken the wrong way. I just found it kind of funny to make a comment stating that cats are masters at hiding pain. I wasn't making light of it -- I just thought it was a kinda weird statement to make. My cats tend to let me know when they aren't about 99% comfortable.

 

[ForteKitty]

How is it a weird statement to make? I've heard that from a lot of vets.

 

[msop04]

If vets were against it because it's so inhumane and will cause pain to the animals forever, then I'm quite certain they would be very much against it, no? Vets are realists. They realize that in order for many to have a cat, it needs to be declawed to have a home.

Most all the vets/vet students I've asked (which is a lot, since they tend to work as pharm techs near AU's vet school) have told me that a successful declawing would feel like a nail being cut deep into the quick, but wouldn't cause any lasting pain once the inflammation is gone and they are healed.

I can only go by their expertise.

Uhm no.
You can question authority, and follow the money.
You can also consider that 22 more-human countries have banned cat declawing.
In America money/lobbyists/trade associations rule, not ethics or morals.

Vets are influence by the $1,000 an hour they get to declaw cats, and there is huge demand from people who care about their furniture more than their cats.

Two parties win.
One loses.
The cat.

Okay... Just to be clear, you're saying that veterinarians across this country will knowingly torture an animal for money?? Really??

It may not be the best thing in the world, but to think that an animal doctor who has spent many years in school because of his/her love and compassion for all animals would commit such a terrible act on a daily basis is beyond my comprehension.

 

[monarch64]

Yeah....I... Msop, I don't think someone who owns declawed cats is the meanest person in the world. However, your attempt at being tongue-in-cheek or humorous about it kind of goes over like a turd in a punch bowl. The practice of de-clawing is considered animal cruelty in many countries. I don't necessarily draw the conclusion that declawing a cat=horrible owner, but I find it difficult not to think differently about someone when they outright laugh about something that so many consider very repulsive. Just seems really disrespectful, I guess. But it's Saturday evening. Maybe you're just relaxing and it came out wrong.

I wasn't meaning to be disrespectful at all, so I apologize if my comments were taken the wrong way. I just found it kind of funny to make a comment stating that cats are masters at hiding pain. I wasn't making light of it -- I just thought it was a kinda weird statement to make. My cats tend to let me know when they aren't about 99% comfortable.

I think (and I'm no animal expert but this is personal logic) that animals who are in pain and/or disabled in any way instinctively hide or do not let on to other beings that they are in pain as a defense mechanism. You know how predators go for the weakest member of the herd? If an animal knows it's in a weakened state it's ingrained behavior pattern is to not let anything that might eat it know that its weakened so it can increase its chances of survival. Or maybe I'm totally wrong. Idk.

I'm gonna have to be finished talking about it, I'm like JG and find it very upsetting. And I don't want to feel judge-y about posters I like based on this thread! I appreciate your clarification, Msop!

Edited to correct typo.

 

[msop04]

How is it a weird statement to make? I've heard that from a lot of vets.

That's interesting, FK...

I've never heard that statement before... I've actually only heard the opposite. Everything that I have read and/or has been explained to me has described animals as being like infant humans. Reactions to pain/discomfort would include his hissing, meowing/sounds, etc, with chronic pain presenting as irritability, depressive behaviors, lack of energy, etc.

I'm really very interested to know what you have heard, as this is so different from what I have had read or discussed with my vet.

 

[CJ2008]

My vet has told me on more than one occasion that she does not BELIEVE in declawing - that none of HER cats are declawed - and that she really believes at the very *least* it causes them arthritis at some point.

But that between the animal not having a home/ending up abandoned, or declawing it, she'll do it.

I think for some vets, who see animals being left in the streets, etc., is why they'll do it. And definitely, others do it because they may not really care and rather make the money/not lose a client rather than having that person go somewhere else and get it done.

Regardless it is not a lighthearted/cutesy subject to mutilate an animal no matter which way you look at it so it's kind of heartbreaking to see it being made light of

 

[msop04]

I think (and I'm no animal expert but this is personal logic) that animals who are in pain and/or disabled in any way instinctively hide or do not let on to other beings that they are in pain as a defense mechanism. You know how predators go for the weakest member of the herd? If an animal knows it's in a weakened state it's ingrained behavior pattern is to not let anything that might eat it know that its weakened so it can increase its chances of survival. Or maybe I'm totally wrong. Idk.

I'm gonna have to be finished talking about it, I'm like JG and find it very upsetting. And I don't want to feel judge-y about posters I like based on this thread! I appreciate your clarification, Msop!

Edited to correct typo.

No, that totally makes sense... I just wonder if that applies to completely domesticated animals (like my lazy, 70-degree-loving, pampered house cats)??

 

[kenny]

If vets were against it because it's so inhumane and will cause pain to the animals forever, then I'm quite certain they would be very much against it, no? Vets are realists. They realize that in order for many to have a cat, it needs to be declawed to have a home.

Most all the vets/vet students I've asked (which is a lot, since they tend to work as pharm techs near AU's vet school) have told me that a successful declawing would feel like a nail being cut deep into the quick, but wouldn't cause any lasting pain once the inflammation is gone and they are healed.

I can only go by their expertise.

Uhm no.
You can question authority, and follow the money.
You can also consider that 22 more-human countries have banned cat declawing.
In America money/lobbyists/trade associations rule, not ethics or morals.

Vets are influence by the $1,000 an hour they get to declaw cats, and there is huge demand from people who care about their furniture more than their cats.

Two parties win.
One loses.
The cat.

Okay... Just to be clear, you're saying that veterinarians across this country will knowingly torture an animal for money?? Really??

It may not be the best thing in the world, but to think that an animal doctor who has spent many years in school because of his/her love and compassion for all animals would commit such a terrible act on a daily basis is beyond my comprehension.

Please see the film in my OP, 'The Paw Project".
It's now streaming on Netflix.
Also note that no Vet Association would even agree to be interviewed for the documentary.
If it's harmless why do 22 countries ban declawing of cats?

Please get educated.

 

[msop04]

My vet has told me on more than one occasion that she does not BELIEVE in declawing - that none of HER cats are declawed - and that she really believes at the very *least* it causes them arthritis at some point.

But that between the animal not having a home/ending up abandoned, or declawing it, she'll do it.

I think for some vets, who see animals being left in the streets, etc., is why they'll do it. And definitely, others do it because they may not really care and rather make the money/not lose a client rather than having that person go somewhere else and get it done.

Regardless it is not a lighthearted/cutesy subject to mutilate an animal no matter which way you look at it so it's kind of heartbreaking to see it being made light of

Maybe that is the case -- my vets always know that my cats were adopted from the local animal shelter, so maybe they think ppl won't adopt if they don't perform the procedure?? I'm trying to understand why none of mine ever once tried to dissuade me from the declawing... ??

One would think that if they truly believe that it was inhumane but they would say so -- in a PC way, of course.

 

[CJ2008]

My vet has told me on more than one occasion that she does not BELIEVE in declawing - that none of HER cats are declawed - and that she really believes at the very *least* it causes them arthritis at some point.

But that between the animal not having a home/ending up abandoned, or declawing it, she'll do it.

I think for some vets, who see animals being left in the streets, etc., is why they'll do it. And definitely, others do it because they may not really care and rather make the money/not lose a client rather than having that person go somewhere else and get it done.

Regardless it is not a lighthearted/cutesy subject to mutilate an animal no matter which way you look at it so it's kind of heartbreaking to see it being made light of

Maybe that is the case -- my vets always know that my cats were adopted from the local animal shelter, so maybe they think ppl won't adopt if they don't perform the procedure?? I'm trying to understand why none of mine ever once tried to dissuade me from the declawing... ??

One would think that if they truly believe that it was inhumane but they would say so -- in a PC way, of course.

I can tell you that it took my vet a LONG time to feel comfortable enough to tell me this...and that's because I've actually come out to her and said "I know you and I see declawing differently" (the reason I know she does is that I've found 2 cats in the time she's been my vet...both times when I told her I would absolutely not let anyone who would declaw them adopt them, she made the comment that "if it's between them having a good home or not..." - so I kind of pushed to have that discussion with her out in the open.

msop, it's also possible that some vets do NOT see it as a big deal...like Kenny would say, vets vary...

But for the most part I would think they - with all the education and learning as to EXACTLY what the procedure is - really through the years learn to be "hardened" and rather see cats stay/end up in a good home than on the streets and some do it because they don't care...

It is also my understanding - from research I've done (although I don't recall the sources) that cats do indeed hide pain or discomfort. (eta I mean domesticated cats, that's what I had read up on)

I do also think that even if say on the pain scale the pain is a 1 or 2 - very mild for the rest of their lives - you're still taking away a primary function of who they ARE as animals/creatures...it's THEIR toes/fingers...it's what they climb with, what they fight with...such an integral part of who they are...so I think for me I wouldn't even care if research showed the pain is not that great...I still see it as taking something away from them that shouldn't be taken.

ETA Thank you for keeping your mind open about this and discussing it further.

ETA2: and yes, that could be a further possibility...I would guess a declawed cat is LIKELY to find a home quicker than one who isn't declawed...hopefully one day that will change...

 

[msop04]

If vets were against it because it's so inhumane and will cause pain to the animals forever, then I'm quite certain they would be very much against it, no? Vets are realists. They realize that in order for many to have a cat, it needs to be declawed to have a home.

Most all the vets/vet students I've asked (which is a lot, since they tend to work as pharm techs near AU's vet school) have told me that a successful declawing would feel like a nail being cut deep into the quick, but wouldn't cause any lasting pain once the inflammation is gone and they are healed.

I can only go by their expertise.

Uhm no.
You can question authority, and follow the money.
You can also consider that 22 more-human countries have banned cat declawing.
In America money/lobbyists/trade associations rule, not ethics or morals.

Vets are influence by the $1,000 an hour they get to declaw cats, and there is huge demand from people who care about their furniture more than their cats.

Two parties win.
One loses.
The cat.

Okay... Just to be clear, you're saying that veterinarians across this country will knowingly torture an animal for money?? Really??

It may not be the best thing in the world, but to think that an animal doctor who has spent many years in school because of his/her love and compassion for all animals would commit such a terrible act on a daily basis is beyond my comprehension.

Please see the film in my OP, 'The Paw Project".
It's now streaming on Netflix.
Also note that no Vet Association would even agree to be interviewed for the documentary.
If it's harmless why do 22 countries ban declawing of cats?

Please get educated.

I'm really not surprised vet associations would not agree to an interview. That would be like gynecologists agreeing to be interviewed by a bunch of pro-lifers in a documentary about abortions... It would be a total setup. I non this isn't the same issue, but the controversy is similar.

However, I have Netflix and will certainly watch the film.

That said, any "education" will vary with the "educator." I haven't been totally blind, and I love my kitties with all my heart. I'm not saying "I'm right, you're wrong" by any stretch of the imagination, but if ANY of my vets would have said it was absolutely cruel and inhumane, I would not have done it. I will also follow-up via email with the vet professors at the AU School of Vet Medicine for additional info/professional opinions.

 

[msop04]

I can tell you that it took my vet a LONG time to feel comfortable enough to tell me this...and that's because I've actually come out to her and said "I know you and I see declawing differently" (the reason I know she does is that I've found 2 cats in the time she's been my vet...both times when I told her I would absolutely not let anyone who would declaw them adopt them, she made the comment that "if it's between them having a good home or not..." - so I kind of pushed to have that discussion with her out in the open.

msop, it's also possible that some vets do NOT see it as a big deal...like Kenny would say, vets vary...

But for the most part I would think they - with all the education and learning as to EXACTLY what the procedure is - really through the years learn to be "hardened" and rather see cats stay/end up in a good home than on the streets and some do it because they don't care...[\quote]

That's very true... some vets may look at "the big picture" of saving cats' lives.

It is also my understanding - from research I've done (although I don't recall the sources) that cats do indeed hide pain or discomfort. (eta I mean domesticated cats, that's what I had read up on)

I do also think that even if say on the pain scale the pain is a 1 or 2 - very mild for the rest of their lives - you're still taking away a primary function of who they ARE as animals/creatures...it's THEIR toes/fingers...it's what they climb with, what they fight with...such an integral part of who they are...so I think for me I wouldn't even care if research showed the pain is not that great...I still see it as taking something away from them that shouldn't be taken.

ETA Thank you for keeping your mind open about this and discussing it further.

ETA2: and yes, that could be a further possibility...I would guess a declawed cat is LIKELY to find a home quicker than one who isn't declawed...hopefully one day that will change...

When I got my first cat, I was barely in college and living on my own for the first time. When it came time to think about declawing, I specifically asked about it hurting the cat. I was very nervous, as I had never had an animal that I would be solely responsible for -- I was a little nervous to say the least. When the procedure was finished, I grilled my vet about signs and symptoms of pain to look for in my cat. He told me what I stated above. Other vets have told me the same thing for the most part.

I had also researched declawing, but the info was all over the board… With that I consulted the only people who I knew to ask -- the experts... my vet group.

Thanks to Kenny for recommending the video, and also to those who have kindly offered other possible explanations/opinions and additional information.

 

[kenny]

Vets declaw, so it must be okay?

HUH?


With all due respect, that's naive.
Using that 'logic', if the government allows cigarette sales then cigarettes must be harmless.
Once again ... money corrupts.
Please do not blindly trust the system.

I'm looking forward to your response to the film.
Thanks for being open minded enough to watch it.

So, to ask again, why do 22 countries ban cat declawing as inhumane?
Does that not give you pause, and make you question whassup with American vets?

 

[CJ2008]

I can tell you that it took my vet a LONG time to feel comfortable enough to tell me this...and that's because I've actually come out to her and said "I know you and I see declawing differently" (the reason I know she does is that I've found 2 cats in the time she's been my vet...both times when I told her I would absolutely not let anyone who would declaw them adopt them, she made the comment that "if it's between them having a good home or not..." - so I kind of pushed to have that discussion with her out in the open.

msop, it's also possible that some vets do NOT see it as a big deal...like Kenny would say, vets vary...

But for the most part I would think they - with all the education and learning as to EXACTLY what the procedure is - really through the years learn to be "hardened" and rather see cats stay/end up in a good home than on the streets and some do it because they don't care...[\quote]

That's very true... some vets may look at "the big picture" of saving cats' lives.

It is also my understanding - from research I've done (although I don't recall the sources) that cats do indeed hide pain or discomfort. (eta I mean domesticated cats, that's what I had read up on)

I do also think that even if say on the pain scale the pain is a 1 or 2 - very mild for the rest of their lives - you're still taking away a primary function of who they ARE as animals/creatures...it's THEIR toes/fingers...it's what they climb with, what they fight with...such an integral part of who they are...so I think for me I wouldn't even care if research showed the pain is not that great...I still see it as taking something away from them that shouldn't be taken.

ETA Thank you for keeping your mind open about this and discussing it further.

ETA2: and yes, that could be a further possibility...I would guess a declawed cat is LIKELY to find a home quicker than one who isn't declawed...hopefully one day that will change...

When I got my first cat, I was barely in college and living on my own for the first time. When it came time to think about declawing, I specifically asked about it hurting the cat. I was very nervous, as I had never had an animal that I would be solely responsible for -- I was a little nervous to say the least. When the procedure was finished, I grilled my vet about signs and symptoms of pain to look for in my cat. He told me what I stated above. Other vets have told me the same thing for the most part.

I had also researched declawing, but the info was all over the board… With that I consulted the only people who I knew to ask -- the experts... my vet group.

Thanks to Kenny for recommending the video, and also to those who have kindly offered other possible explanations/opinions and additional information.

I hear you msop - you did what you could based on the information you were given, and you trusted it because it came from experts/doctors.

But you know what? Much like I've been feeling about doctors lately, I've been feeling about vets and the people who work there. I swear I sometimes feel like I know MORE about certain things like behavior, etc., than they do. It is amazing to me how many times I'll ask a question, get an answer, and then follow it up with something I've learned and they'll say "oh, yes, you'll want to do that too" or "yes, make sure that doesn't happen" about something that should not have been left out in the first place.

Of course I have to defer to them / their knowledge for many things - but more and more - I don't make ANY decisions until I've also done my OWN research.

I think it's possible that even after you watch the film, talk to the professors, etc., you may still view it the same way...but it feels good to know you'll look further into it with a fresh / open mind.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I'm shocked to read statements like "If a vet says it is ok, why would it not be? Why would a vet declaw if it were bad for the cat?"

We know more about cats now. Think back even 10 years ago, if you had said "cat behaviorist" people would have been like

We also don't treat illness with leeches or make pregnant women wear restraints during childbirth. We know better now. Vets know better. If they are still declawing in spite of that then they are following money plain and simple.

 

[packrat]

There are things that Dr's don't want to do but they do them anyway. Our Dr. tried and tried and tried to talk us out of circumcising Trapper, but we wanted it done, so she did it.

But here's the thing, we can't all know everything about everything all the time forever n'ever amen. Cuz if we did, then we'd all be Dr's and Big Smarties. Seeing as how I'm not a Dr. (or a Big Smartie) I go to the Dr when I don't feel good. If the Dr says I have to have a procedure done, or I have X disease, yes, by all means look into it, get a second opinion etc, but I don't question it if she tells me something I've had before or to take a medicine I've had before. If I have a home inspector come, I listen to what he says is fine or needs worked on. I'm not a home inspector. When we took our cats in to be declawed, not a word has ever been said. When it's just something people have "always done", you don't necessarily automatically think hmm, I wonder if there is new and enlightened information about this? You most of the time take it at face value.

Sometimes we should cut each other some slack. Cuz there is a bit of self righteousness now and again that comes off as some are so enlightened and others are just dumb or too lazy to research everything under the sun b/c they didn't know something, or didn't think there was a reason to question something, or don't have the same experiences. I vaccinate, I circumcised, I eat meat, I have declawed cats, I had caffeine and deli meat when I was pregnant w/both kids, I own guns, I love pit bulls, I breast fed, I stayed home w/my kids, I support the death penalty, I am against non-medical use of drugs, my husband hunts, my husband traps, we support fur.

However, knowing now what I know, body modifications will be limited to the further tattooing of myself and my husband.

B/c it sort of goes along--JD asked me the other day when we get our next pitbull if she doesn't have her ears cropped, would I want that done. I said no. I like the look of their ears better natural, but even if I liked cropped better, I still wouldn't, just b/c we had it done to a dog and it bothered me. I don't know why then the declawing thing never crossed my radar--maybe b/c the ears are a larger area and more noticeable? But it wasn't until like the last couple years or so, sometime after having Clementine declawed that my gramma mentioned she'd seen someplace what declawing really was. She happened to be on the internet b/c she had a new cat that was pretty much tearing her skin off (Gramma's have that thin crepe paper skin you know) so she'd had her declawed (again vet said nothing) and she was looking for litter ideas or something random, and found an article.

And yes, animals hide pain, and they hide it very well. I've sat w/kitties that were dying, and they laid in my lap and purred...until they just were quiet. When Sadie got stuck in the kennel fence and was hanging by her back leg, the only way you could tell she was in pain was the look in her eyes (well shock by then had probably taken real pain away). She had to have her leg amputated and you'd think that would be unbearable pain. The vet (who did our declawing) commented that the pain tolerance of animals is astounding. Soon as she was not woozy from anesthesia anymore, she was out of that cage and trying to do zoomies, she was so excited to see us. I am tougher than wang leather when it comes to pain but no way could I ever be that tough.

 

[ForteKitty]

How is it a weird statement to make? I've heard that from a lot of vets.

That's interesting, FK...

I've never heard that statement before... I've actually only heard the opposite. Everything that I have read and/or has been explained to me has described animals as being like infant humans. Reactions to pain/discomfort would include his hissing, meowing/sounds, etc, with chronic pain presenting as irritability, depressive behaviors, lack of energy, etc.

I'm really very interested to know what you have heard, as this is so different from what I have had read or discussed with my vet.

My vet said it is a defense mechanism, just like monarch said. Just because they are domesticated doesn't mean they don't have instincts anymore, as lazy as we may think they are! My vet also asks her patients to listen for odd purring that doesn't really match their expressions (either tired or perhaps not comfortable), as purring can mean the cat is self soothing while trying to mask the pain.