deflated

[anchor31]

Montreal?? Cool! Where?? My family lives less than an hour north from the city and my father works there. Both my siblings live there for school. I studied in Montreal for a couple of years too, but then I exiled myself to the east of the province last January. I don''t generally like big cities, but it''s close to home and now that I''m so far away, I realize I''m quite attached to it! My boyfriend lives close to the city too, so I guess that''s where my heart is!

Anyway, it''s a very good idea to do things by yourself. I hope you have fun!

 

[nytemist]

I usually stay at the Days Inn downtown on Rene Levesque or the Holiday Inn downtown on Sherbrooke St West. I''ve been there more times than I can count since high school. Sometimes it''s a toss-up to whether I like Montreal or New York more.

The friend that I''m going with has a friend who lives there and she just bought a place. I don''t know where exactly yet. I know she loves the Mount Royal area, so maybe she lives around there.

I''ve alwasy loved doing things myself... dining out, movies, concerts, travel, more. It drives BF nuts when I''m away from him during travel. He feels left out.

 

[anchor31]

Where are you from? I never expected to find someone on PS who''s so familiar with where I come from (and can''t wait to go back to)... It really cool.

And I agree it''s a great feeling to go out and do things by yourself. I have "loner-tendencies" and I get the need to have a date with myself every once in a while...

 

[larussel03]

I''m glad that you guys talked and that you feel better!!! It''s good to do things without him, and to not bring it up--just be ultra independant and he''ll notice that and want to propose

 

[Buena Girl]

Date: 11/14/2005 12:25:16 PM
Author: nytemist
.....He still wants an Oct 2006 wedding, so we have to get cracking. It''s possible, my friend planned hers in ten months. Heck another planned hers in 3.

It made the weekend better, having cleared some air. I can''t help that feeling of what if and I hate that it''s the whole deadline situation. I''d feel beter if he didn''t hold onto the ring forever to make some giant production. Like Nike says, JUST DO IT!

....

Right there with ya! We also want an Oct 2006 wedding. BTW, I L

VE the Nike reference!!!

That slogan is a perfect motto.

 

[nytemist]

Hey, it''s a pop culture catch-phrase that fits the bill for a lot of us here!

This Thursday will be interesting at his family''s place... want to know which one will ask the infamous question- his mom or his sister. More so, what his answer will be.

 

[SoonIHope]

Good luck at Thanksgiving nytemist!!! Hopefully this will be your last holiday with awkward questions like that!!

 

[larussel03]

lucky for me this is the last year bf and I will spend the holidays separate. his brother is a senior in highschool and wants bf to go to his football game, and I have to go to my parents b/c my cousin just moved here to go to BU medical school and will be going to my house also. Hopefully this will also be the year we get engaged so i wont have to live through those awkward family holiday parties.

Good luck on Turkey Day!!! Just let your bf answer the nosy relatives'' questions. Let him get put on the spot!

 

[picky]

Why do women give men so much power in these matters. If you want to get engaged and he''s dragging his feet, then why don''t YOU propose to HIM?? But a nice masculine ring or watch, and propose. THere. He''ll accept or reject, and you''ll have your answer. This is almost 2006. Women ask men out on dates now. Women often split the bill. Women keep their names after marriage. ANd women should propose to their bf''s if the men are dragging their feet.

 

[larussel03]

/

Date: 11/27/2005 6:41:01 AM
Author: Prisms
Why do women give men so much power in these matters. If you want to get engaged and he''s dragging his feet, then why don''t YOU propose to HIM?? But a nice masculine ring or watch, and propose. THere. He''ll accept or reject, and you''ll have your answer. This is almost 2006. Women ask men out on dates now. Women often split the bill. Women keep their names after marriage. ANd women should propose to their bf''s if the men are dragging their feet.

I think I personally would be hesitant to propose to a guy if he''s been dragging his feet. I''d be too nervous that he wasn''t ready and was accepting just because after I realized that since he''s not going to propose when I want him to, I decided to steal his thunder and propose instead of him. If you''ve had discussions/set deadlines etc about him proposing, then I think the ball is officially in his court.

 

[anchor31]

I think my boyfriend is dragging his feet because while it is something he definitely wants to do, he is not quite ready right now. So if I proposed to him he might say no, or he might marry me earlier than he would be ready to and possibly resent it later. I wouldn''t want that to happen. He''s a very traditional guy and he might also resent the fact that I took it upon myself to do something he felt like he had to do himself.

Yes, nowadays women do a lot more in the man/woman relationship and it''s a good thing, but I think there are a few things we should still let the man do. My sister told me this recently:
"I met this guy and we talked about [dating and proposal and so on]. You know, feminism and how men/women relationship have changed. Anyway, men can''t be as "alpha male" as they could before, and he was telling me that having to go and "get the girl" is something that they still should be able to do.
You can drop a few hints, but let him be a man and win his girl."

I agree with her. Men are proud creatures and they hold some tradition dear. So lets let them be men and win their women.

 

[Kit]

Date: 11/27/2005 6:41:01 AM
Author: Prisms
Why do women give men so much power in these matters. If you want to get engaged and he''s dragging his feet, then why don''t YOU propose to HIM?? But a nice masculine ring or watch, and propose. THere. He''ll accept or reject, and you''ll have your answer. This is almost 2006. Women ask men out on dates now. Women often split the bill. Women keep their names after marriage. ANd women should propose to their bf''s if the men are dragging their feet.

Prisms, while I completely appreciate your perspective and agree 100% it just doesn''t work like this with every relationship. I am a feminist and am completely comfortable proposing to my BF. He loves the fact that I am a feminist, independent, smart and self-reliant woman who eschews traditional gender roles and refuses to do his laundry

. BUT...he would be very hurt if I proposed. He comes from a traditional family and I think that proposing is something he''s dreamed of all his life, much in the way that many women have dreamed of being proposed to. I don''t feel comfortable taking that away from him. It will happen when he is comfortable and ready, but within a timeframe we have mutally agreed to. It makes things complicated, but people have needs and so it''s just the way it goes.

 

[MissAva]

Date: 11/27/2005 8:02:00 PM
Author: Kit

Date: 11/27/2005 6:41:01 AM
Author: Prisms
Why do women give men so much power in these matters. If you want to get engaged and he''s dragging his feet, then why don''t YOU propose to HIM?? But a nice masculine ring or watch, and propose. THere. He''ll accept or reject, and you''ll have your answer. This is almost 2006. Women ask men out on dates now. Women often split the bill. Women keep their names after marriage. ANd women should propose to their bf''s if the men are dragging their feet.

Prisms, while I completely appreciate your perspective and agree 100% it just doesn''t work like this with every relationship. I am a feminist and am completely comfortable proposing to my BF. He loves the fact that I am a feminist, independent, smart and self-reliant woman who eschews traditional gender roles and refuses to do his laundry

. BUT...he would be very hurt if I proposed. He comes from a traditional family and I think that proposing is something he''s dreamed of all his life, much in the way that many women have dreamed of being proposed to. I don''t feel comfortable taking that away from him. It will happen when he is comfortable and ready, but within a timeframe we have mutally agreed to. It makes things complicated, but people have needs and so it''s just the way it goes.

Traditional gender roles have only been traditional since we became an industrialized society but the man proposing (or really the men deciding who the women went to) has always been that way. I could not ask him, I would feel like i was stealing something from him.
I also don’t think you need to be a feminist to be smart and self reliant I think you can be both of those things and still respect tradition.

 

[picky]

but the man proposing (or really the men deciding who the women went to) has always been that way.

Hmm, are you sure about that? Perhaps in Western culture....but not in all cultures. MOTHERS have often determined who the son/daughter marries. Just because this society is sexist and patriarchial doesn''t mean all are, or always have been.

Marriage, IMO, should be a DECISION that two intelligent adults come too. Not the sole decision of a man who calls all the shots while the woman sits begging and hoping for scraps like the dog under the table. It''s YOUR decisions to give your power away.


And we wonder why women are still enjoying the status of second class citizens...

 

[MissAva]

Which culture in which time period are you referring to?
And why does that makes things sexist? Would the mothers be just as bad?

 

[picky]

In many cultures, in the case of arranged marriage, the MOTHERS of the sons have a strong voice in selecting the pool of women out of whom he can consider for marriage. Sons often consult their mothers for help in finding an "appropriate" wife. This is true in many middle eastern cultures....asian too.

In Vietnam, traditionally the MOTHER of the son often has a heavy hand in helping select a pool of women she approves of before the son makes any choice of his own. Even after he finds a woman who agrees to marry him, if his new wife doesn''t produce sons to the mother-in-law''s liking, his mother may even find a NEW wife for him, even if he and his bride strongly oppose it. My Vietnamese future-mother-in law said that if I don''t have a male child next year, she''s finding him a new wife.

(she knows damn well she lives in America now and he would NEVER agree to it.

Women have always had a strong input into who their sons marry. My point is that MEN have not always been the sole decision makers in who ends up their mates. Women in western countries are brainwashed to believe men should have all the power in the "next big step".

 

[picky]

I wanted to add, (

), that the marriage proposal tradition has actually become more sexist...in my understanding, women used to entertain marriage proposals from several different men, outside of the context of a committed sexual relationship, and in the end SHE was the one ultimately choosing which mate was the best for her. In the context of today''s committed, sexual relationships, it ends up the woman at the bottom of the power ladder, just waitin for her man to finally step up.

 

[nytemist]

As it stands, the only reason why there is a "wait" situation is because he said it would happen before this year was over. I''m simply giving him the chance to make good on his promise. If it doesn''t happen, trust me I''ll be in his face asking is this happening or not. I was going to ask him that at one time and said so since he''s having such a hard time getting his head together. His plea wa "please, it''s something I''ve always wanted to do."

I''m in no way a submissive. I haven''t been brainwashed. If his promise is broken, I will ask him, If he stammers, I know exactly how much this relationship matters to him and I''m done. He may want to be the one to propose, but he has no power over me. He knows I''m quite capable to move on and support myself without him. That scares him to death.

 

[Caribou]

Date: 11/28/2005 5:55:55 AM
Author: Prisms
I wanted to add, (

), that the marriage proposal tradition has actually become more sexist...in my understanding, women used to entertain marriage proposals from several different men, outside of the context of a committed sexual relationship, and in the end SHE was the one ultimately choosing which mate was the best for her. In the context of today's committed, sexual relationships, it ends up the woman at the bottom of the power ladder, just waitin for her man to finally step up.

Sorry but I think that's ridiculous.

I think if a woman wants to propose than go for it...if she doesn't and wants to hold onto the tradition of being proposed too than that's great. I don't think she is putting herself at the bottom of any 'power ladder'. I'm would never propose to my BF not because I'm afraid he'll say no but because I want him to do it...I'm certainly not 'waiting' for my man to finally step up. Nor do I think alot of women on here are.

 

[SoonIHope]

Date: 11/28/2005 10:27:53 AM
Author: Caribou

Date: 11/28/2005 5:55:55 AM

Author: Prisms

I wanted to add, (

), that the marriage proposal tradition has actually become more sexist...in my understanding, women used to entertain marriage proposals from several different men, outside of the context of a committed sexual relationship, and in the end SHE was the one ultimately choosing which mate was the best for her. In the context of today''s committed, sexual relationships, it ends up the woman at the bottom of the power ladder, just waitin for her man to finally step up.

Sorry but I think that''s ridiculous.

I think if a woman wants to propose than go for it...if she doesn''t and wants to hold onto the tradition of being proposed too than that''s great. I don''t think she is putting herself at the bottom of any ''power ladder''. I''m would never propose to my BF not because I''m afraid he''ll say no but because I want him to do it...I''m certainly not ''waiting'' for my man to finally step up. Nor do I think alot of women on here are.

And in addition to that, it isn''t as one-sided as you seem to think. All of the LIWs here have discussed marriage with their boyfriends and come to some sort of an understanding as to what the next step is mutually. That little bit of tradition at the end is, for most of us, not a "decision" since there isn''t any question as to whether we''ll accept or not; it''s just that after a mutual decision has been made, we still like the idea of the romance and tradition. Plus, my boyfriend would definitely be sad if he didn''t get to do it himself, not because he''s a man and needs to exert his manliness by authoritatively making that decision for the both of us, but because he just always assumed he would do it and is getting excited about the idea.

 

[larussel03]

Date: 11/28/2005 10:27:53 AM
Author: Caribou

Date: 11/28/2005 5:55:55 AM

Author: Prisms

I wanted to add, (

), that the marriage proposal tradition has actually become more sexist...in my understanding, women used to entertain marriage proposals from several different men, outside of the context of a committed sexual relationship, and in the end SHE was the one ultimately choosing which mate was the best for her. In the context of today''s committed, sexual relationships, it ends up the woman at the bottom of the power ladder, just waitin for her man to finally step up.

Sorry but I think that''s ridiculous.

I think if a woman wants to propose than go for it...if she doesn''t and wants to hold onto the tradition of being proposed too than that''s great. I don''t think she is putting herself at the bottom of any ''power ladder''. I''m would never propose to my BF not because I''m afraid he''ll say no but because I want him to do it...I''m certainly not ''waiting'' for my man to finally step up. Nor do I think alot of women on here are.

I agree as well, there is no "power ladder" in my relationship. We are completely equal and that''s why we get along so well and enjoy each other so much. We both agreed that he''s the one who will be doing the proposing, and if I had a real problem with it (besides being impatient!) I''d let him know immediately and vice versa.

 

[picky]

Well I understand that the women in this particular forum are very sensitive about this issue...considering the title of the forum is "Ladies in Waiting". From the outside, it looks like you are giving your power away and letting the man determine where and when your relationships go. If you truely believe that this is not the case, then that''s wonderful. Still, the tradition is degrading to the woman, and it seems ridiculous to hold on to tradition just for the sake of tradition itself...especially if that tradition is sexist and degrading to women. But whatever. I can''t post in this forum anymore, much to your collected relief...because the powerlessness is disturbing.

 

[Rhapsody]

Prisms, you have been nothing but angry and rather rude in 90% of your postings on pricescope. You have no right to attack the people here because you have issues with the beliefs and traditions they have. Bully for you that you are so empowered and enlightened but don''t make assumptions about other people and their relationships.

 

[larussel03]

Date: 11/28/2005 8:06:34 PM
Author: Prisms
Well I understand that the women in this particular forum are very sensitive about this issue...considering the title of the forum is ''Ladies in Waiting''. From the outside, it looks like you are giving your power away and letting the man determine where and when your relationships go. If you truely believe that this is not the case, then that''s wonderful. Still, the tradition is degrading to the woman, and it seems ridiculous to hold on to tradition just for the sake of tradition itself...especially if that tradition is sexist and degrading to women. But whatever. I can''t post in this forum anymore, much to your collected relief...because the powerlessness is disturbing.

Bye Bye!

 

[picky]

I''m not angry.

I think you are being a litte sensitive, but whatever!

 

[nytemist]

Well, whatever- I trust the opinions of the other adults on the forum who are secure, independent, well-rounded and courteous.

 

[Caribou]

See ya Prism, don''t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

I find it rather funny that you will get on your soap box and tell us how we are giving our power over to our men but yet you are willing to commit to marriage which back in the day was all about the woman taking care of the man and him being the ''man of the house''......aka giving the power to him.

I one for can not wait until I ''give all power'' (as you say) to my BF after we are married.

 

[SoonIHope]

Date: 11/29/2005 9:35:21 AM
Author: Caribou
See ya Prism, don''t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

I find it rather funny that you will get on your soap box and tell us how we are giving our power over to our men but yet you are willing to commit to marriage which back in the day was all about the woman taking care of the man and him being the ''man of the house''......aka giving the power to him.

I one for can not wait until I ''give all power'' (as you say) to my BF after we are married.

EXACTLY, Caribou! The tradition behind marriage in general is exactly the same as the tradition behind proposals. I think it''s important to remember that the main tenet of feminism isn''t that you HAVE to be independent and oppose all traditions based in sexism, it''s that you as a woman have the right to choose to do whatever you want. Staying home to raise your kids isn''t inherently sexist unless you do it because you feel you have no other choice and your husband doesn''t believe you belong in the workplace. If you CHOOSE to stay home and raise your kids (or have your SO propose to you, whatever) then that is as informed and legitimate decision as any other - it''s just that we as women need to have the OPTION to do whatever we want. And, in the case of this forum, what we want is a traditional romantic proposal. That is essentially all you know about any of us, because that is the LIW binding principle, so I don''t think you have any right to judge us or our relationships based on this alone. A lot of us consider ourselves feminists and oppose traditional gender roles in a million other ways, so there isn''t anything wrong with making the MUTUAL DECISION with our boyfriends that this is how we would like to get engaged.

 

[Caribou]

Date: 11/29/2005 9:49:30 AM
Author: albicocca

Date: 11/29/2005 9:35:21 AM
Author: Caribou
See ya Prism, don''t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

I find it rather funny that you will get on your soap box and tell us how we are giving our power over to our men but yet you are willing to commit to marriage which back in the day was all about the woman taking care of the man and him being the ''man of the house''......aka giving the power to him.

I one for can not wait until I ''give all power'' (as you say) to my BF after we are married.

EXACTLY, Caribou! The tradition behind marriage in general is exactly the same as the tradition behind proposals. I think it''s important to remember that the main tenet of feminism isn''t that you HAVE to be independent and oppose all traditions based in sexism, it''s that you as a woman have the right to choose to do whatever you want. Staying home to raise your kids isn''t inherently sexist unless you do it because you feel you have no other choice and your husband doesn''t believe you belong in the workplace. If you CHOOSE to stay home and raise your kids (or have your SO propose to you, whatever) then that is as informed and legitimate decision as any other - it''s just that we as women need to have the OPTION to do whatever we want. And, in the case of this forum, what we want is a traditional romantic proposal. That is essentially all you know about any of us, because that is the LIW binding principle, so I don''t think you have any right to judge us or our relationships based on this alone. A lot of us consider ourselves feminists and oppose traditional gender roles in a million other ways, so there isn''t anything wrong with making the MUTUAL DECISION with our boyfriends that this is how we would like to get engaged.

Right on Albicocca!!!

Some people.......I swear.

 

[picky]

Haha. Lordy, you women in here are testy! Well I wish you all the best, and hope your men "step up to the plate" sooner than later.