Destroying America

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/11/2007 12:47:59 PM
Author: Macie
Here locally there are some problems between the Cuban, Purto Rican and whites. When I was going to Miami there where some white people flaming a Purto Rican flag, about a bock down the road where I use to eat the best roast pork the Purto Rican woman who was the cook there was crying asking why do they burn our flag? All I could do was to hug her and wonder about it myself.

that sux and is wrong :{

 

[luckystar112]

Well, in my opinion flag-buring is a RESULT of segregation...and yes, it is extremely sad.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 9/11/2007 9:39:10 AM
Author: surfgirl
osinbreeze, your post made me so sad. Multi cultural societies are rich in diversity, passions, differences! I dont want to live in a cookie cutter society where everyone is like a stepford wife, thinking the same things, doing and acting the same way. It is extremely knee jerk to say that encouraging multi cultural society somehow encourages female genital mutiliation (and I work on this topic in developing countries so I know what I''m talking about). What you refer to are immigrants who have almost no assistance on assimilating into US cultural norms so they bring their cultural baggage with them, and most people who engage in FGM dont really want to but they dont see a way not to adhere to cultural practices. When given reasonable, safe alternatives to make them feel as is they''ve kept some small semblance of cultural norms, they are often quite willing to walk away from more destructive practices like the ones you reference. All it takes is some thoughtful communication, education, and non judegemental interventions. You cannot change someone''s behaviors if you dont take the time to understand why they do what they do.

You want to live in a non-ethnic country where everyone thinks the same? Looks the same? May I remind you of a little thing called Nazism? It''s not a good thing, trust me. Tolerance is, for some reason, a very difficult and threatening thing for people who buy into this ''post 9/11 hysteria'' that many people have bought into these days. I would encourage you to practice a little tolerance for the sake of the country you seem to want to ''protect''. In fact, the hysterical knee jerk animosity and discrimination US policy aims towards Muslims has exacerbated the extremist movement. Have you ever spoken to a Muslim in the US? Or in Asia? Do you know what they think? How they feel? Most are appalled at the goings on with Mulsim exrtemists, yet many Americans think all Muslims are extremists.

Ditto.

My mood today is ... uncertain to say the least so I''m going to leave it as ditto and say that the original post''s message smacks of ignorance, and enrages me. Oshin, I don''t mean that as a personal attack, and I like you... but... I STRONGLY disagree with you. And agree with surfgirl 100%.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Where does the former governor of Colorado think he would be today if the Native Americans had been able to deny his ancestors entry into this country?

 

[angel_nieves]

Well said Madam Bijoux

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/11/2007 1:17:46 PM
Author: Madam Bijoux
Where does the former governor of Colorado think he would be today if the Native Americans had been able to deny his ancestors entry into this country?

They tried and its a good example of what happens when you don''t/cant control immigration. You get ran over.

 

[rainbowtrout]

I''m not sure why this isn''t clear:

the list of Latin-American men who died on 9/11 was meant to show that integration is alive and well, that just because you come from a multicultural background does not mean you are not willing to give your life for this country and that you are just as American as the next man (and YES, they ARE multicultural, being American does not exclude that).



My point in that post was to illustrate that men and women from all different cultural backgrounds joined together in New York following 9/11. It had nothing to do with illegal immigration, other than to point out that not all multiculturalism is bad.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 9/11/2007 12:55:51 PM
Author: door knob solitaire
Firefighter Nicholas Rossomando

Police Officer Antonio Rodrigues

Police Officer Richard Rodriguez

Police Chief James Romito

Police Officer Robert Fazio

Lieutenant Michael Esposito

Paramedic Carlos Lillo

Paramedic Ricardo Quinn


No disrespect...RT...but this list of fine Americans destroys your point.



Why? They stood for and strived for and believed that being a member of this country was important enough to be ONE with it. Each one of these men (if they were not born here...) learned to speak English, passed the 50 question test in English, took the oath in English, once they were a Citizen they then began to pay taxes with the US currency, they got a Drivers license and THEN they got an education and training to make them a respected and valued member of our society.


They had the freedom to continue their cultural practices...they listened to the music of their choice, ate the food of their choice, WORSHIPED at their choice, participated in political elections as they choose. Were able to continue their own family heritage...but in so doing respected and honored what AMERICA stands for. They kept their names...and their ethnicity at the forefront of who they were. And America is far richer for having them as citizens.


We are grateful for their honoring our nation with the service they gave....But again these men would not agree with non conforming. It is what made them the fine Americans they were.


DKS


a ditch digger, and a trash man provide just as honorable part of our society. I am not saying that everyone has to have an education or vocation...just take part in equality as an UNITED NATION...through tax paying, registration, communicating etc.

*points above*

I forgot to quote you, but we have the same point. I think that the OP had several different points and perhaps it seemed like I was adressing immigration policy. I wasn't, I was addressing that multiculturalism isn't an either or, that integration still works. Many young soldiers in Iraq are also Latino, I believe.


ETA: That isn't to say that there are not large problems with the immigration system and with how people are being integrated into American society, the numbers of illegals, etc. But it wasn't really my point.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

If the former governor of Colorado was critically ill, I wonder if he would decline the help of a multilingual/multicultural doctor who had just arrived here?

 

[luckystar112]

Obviously not. Even Hitler put his beliefs aside and allowed a Jewish doctor to work on his ailing mother.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

If anything is divisive it is th e ex-governor''s speech and mentality.

 

[surfgirl]

Some interesting post here today...But what I wanted to say is MACIE! I LOVE MONGOLIA!!!!!!! It was one of the most amazing assisgnments of my life, to date. What an amazing country. Have you been? When I saw your photo I can totally see a Mongol face in your features...I was imagining you wearing a del...If you''ve not been there, please do yourself a huge favor and go one year in early July for the Naadam Festival...one of the most special things I''ve ever experienced anywhere in the world. You''re so lucky to have that link to such a wonderful country...!

 

[door knob solitaire]

I beg everyone...to go back once again and reread that quote. Lamm was using those segments as metaphors to the point he was making. I think the tone of this thread has gotten off track. I think our posters have turned his words around...His speech was HOW TO DESTROY...again this quote is how to destroy our country. Not how to run it.

"I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

I see his point as this... Once we divide AMERICANS as subgroups instead of a MAIN COMMON one...such as we are ALL AMERICANS FIRST...we will destroy the unification that formed this country.

Am I terribly off track?

DKS

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 9/11/2007 9:39:10 AM
Author: surfgirl
osinbreeze, your post made me so sad. Multi cultural societies are rich in diversity, passions, differences! I dont want to live in a cookie cutter society where everyone is like a stepford wife, thinking the same things, doing and acting the same way. It is extremely knee jerk to say that encouraging multi cultural society somehow encourages female genital mutiliation (and I work on this topic in developing countries so I know what I''m talking about). What you refer to are immigrants who have almost no assistance on assimilating into US cultural norms so they bring their cultural baggage with them, and most people who engage in FGM dont really want to but they dont see a way not to adhere to cultural practices. When given reasonable, safe alternatives to make them feel as is they''ve kept some small semblance of cultural norms, they are often quite willing to walk away from more destructive practices like the ones you reference. All it takes is some thoughtful communication, education, and non judegemental interventions. You cannot change someone''s behaviors if you dont take the time to understand why they do what they do.

You want to live in a non-ethnic country where everyone thinks the same? Looks the same? May I remind you of a little thing called Nazism? It''s not a good thing, trust me. Tolerance is, for some reason, a very difficult and threatening thing for people who buy into this ''post 9/11 hysteria'' that many people have bought into these days. I would encourage you to practice a little tolerance for the sake of the country you seem to want to ''protect''. In fact, the hysterical knee jerk animosity and discrimination US policy aims towards Muslims has exacerbated the extremist movement. Have you ever spoken to a Muslim in the US? Or in Asia? Do you know what they think? How they feel? Most are appalled at the goings on with Mulsim exrtemists, yet many Americans think all Muslims are extremists.

I couldn''t have said it better, so I''ll ditto surfgirl as well. The content of the original post is scary to me and the first thing that came to my mind was the Holocaust. I''ve said this before when talking about the immigration debate-in my opinion, immigrants are being used as scapegoats by the Right, just like Hitler used the Jewish people as scapegoats during the Holocaust. Scary.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 9/11/2007 5:44:20 PM
Author: door knob solitaire
I beg everyone...to go back once again and reread that quote. Lamm was using those segments as metaphors to the point he was making. I think the tone of this thread has gotten off track. I think our posters have turned his words around...His speech was HOW TO DESTROY...again this quote is how to destroy our country. Not how to run it.

''I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities.''

I see his point as this... Once we divide AMERICANS as subgroups instead of a MAIN COMMON one...such as we are ALL AMERICANS FIRST...we will destroy the unification that formed this country.

Am I terribly off track?

DKS

I saw it the same way DKS. I wasn''t offended even a smidgen by that speech...WHICH IS TWO YEARS OLD, BTW.

Diffences in reading comprehension, I guess. Reminds me of that line...what is it?

"A woman without her man is nothing"

Tell a group of men and women to punctuate that line, and most men end up with

"A woman without her man, is nothing."

Offensive right? Well, you''re just reading what you WANT to read. Here''s what women usually put-

"A woman: Without her, man is nothing."

So, my point is....I guess we interpret things the way we want to?

 

[door knob solitaire]

Lucky star

Thanks for your agreement...you know I can be a tad dense...it is possible I am still.

DKS

 

[goldenstar]

I reread the original post and I was still offended...

 

[perry]

I''ve seen those point before, so I did a little verification:

First, the story is True as per the Truth or Fiction site:

www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/l/lamm.htm


However, I believe the basic outline of that speach is at least a decade old. I know I have seen the key points before - years ago in something I read.

I believe there is some degree of truth to the speach. America was built largely by imigrants who worked to generally unify their efforts for a better america - although there was not always peace between groups.

However; I also believe that the speach pushes the fringe as well and does not adequately ballance other items.

My gut check is that the essance of the speach is probably 66% true - but misses an important 33%.

I also beleive that even before the imigration issue that America was drifting away from its roots and becoming to socialist. mmethinks the government subsidy programs have often gone to far and some of them have been maintained well beyond their point of effectiveness (or proof that they were not effective at all).

One of the base concept of the tax break that religions have was because the religions used to care for the poor and down and out. I believe that they should take that responsibility over again and greatly reduce the governmetn involvment. I belive that if the people of the churches were caring for the poor and needy in there area that they would learn a lot of things that you cannot learn by just giving money to someone else so that someone else can do it.

I do worry about America - and where it is going.


Perry

 

[angel_nieves]

Not to get off topic: however Surfgirl my parents have been to Mongolia, I have not

. Thanks for the comment I have always felt I features leaned towards my fathers Irish Dutch side and none of my mothers Mongolian, Native American side you have made my day.

Also we are hoping to go to Mongolia in July in the upcoming years my birthday falls on the 7th of July so the Naadam Festival will be very special.

 

[oshinbreez]

I''m sorry if the post offended anyone. I didn''t mean it to do that.

A friend emailed it to me over a year ago, but I felt that today, of all days, it was appropriate.

What I considered to be the main point, is that we are AMERICANS. As DKS said, I see his point as this... Once we divide AMERICANS as subgroups instead of a MAIN COMMON one...such as we are ALL AMERICANS FIRST...we will destroy the unification that formed this country.


United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

America's strength is in being able to absorb and "Americanize" different cultures. It takes a couple generations but inevitably happens. Look at the German, Irish and Italian cultures, which at first were separatist and clannish. They are all now "Americans" more than Germans, or Irish, or Italian.

You can't stop the inflow of people, especially from border countries. It's impossible. You also can't stop the multiplication of population once they're here. In 20 years the Hispanic race will no longer be a minority in the U.S.

Eventually intermarriage, interbreeding and inter-relations promotes unity. Once a race becomes your "blood" or your friend or your coworker, they are no longer your enemy, but your friend and family.

I am of English and German ancestry. Once hated enemies, now joined together through decades of interbreeding. I drive a car made by another past hated enemy, the Japanese.

Integration and interbreeding is the "internet" of the human race. Sooner or later it is going to level the playing field of racism and racial division. Once your "enemy" is "family", he is no longer your enemy.

What is an "American", anyway? Except for the Indians, there is no such thing as a "Native American". We ALL come from somewhere else.

Embrace change and evolve, or resist change and be shattered.

 

[Pandora II]

Good comments Richard,

But this isn''t always the case - take Northern Ireland, where I lived for several years in the early 1990''s - segregation of communities and in schools did real harm and there is still deep mistrust in what I would definitely describe as ''ghetto'' areas.

In mainland Britain - especially London it was very much hoped that people would inter-marry and the races would blur into a big melting-pot. Sadly a paper out last year has shown that even 4th generation immigrants (who one would hardly call immigrants) are overwhelming marrying partners from their ''original home'' countries. Thus perpetuating the segregation in communities.

The area I work in as a politician has around 43% new immigrants and we have a lot of problems - high unemployment, huge levels of people with no qualifications, a lot of people from countries where they have seen or suffered unspeakable horrors (and not enough psychiatric resources to help them) plus 15,000 people on the housing waiting list. (I''m a Liberal Democrat - in case anyone wondered where my politics lie)

I wish I knew the answers, but I don''t. However I can see that the present system is failing everyone, most of all those who arrive here hoping for a better life and finding it very different from the streets paved with gold that they imagined. Some make it - but the vast majority do not.

 

[goldenstar]

I do agree with the concept of unity, but the article seemed to say that unity and cultural diversity are mutually exclusive. THAT is the concept I do not agree with. I believe, and know from experience, that people with different language and cultural backgrounds can flourish together. Multiculturalism is not going to be the downfall of America, what will destroy the country is hate and intolerance.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 9/11/2007 8:30:50 PM
Author: goldenstar
I do agree with the concept of unity, but the article seemed to say that unity and cultural diversity are mutually exclusive. THAT is the concept I do not agree with. I believe, and know from experience, that people with different language and cultural backgrounds can flourish together. Multiculturalism is not going to be the downfall of America, what will destroy the country is hate and intolerance.

Well said, gs. I totally agree.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 9/11/2007 5:44:20 PM
Author: door knob solitaire
I beg everyone...to go back once again and reread that quote. Lamm was using those segments as metaphors to the point he was making. I think the tone of this thread has gotten off track. I think our posters have turned his words around...His speech was HOW TO DESTROY...again this quote is how to destroy our country. Not how to run it.

''I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities.''

I see his point as this... Once we divide AMERICANS as subgroups instead of a MAIN COMMON one...such as we are ALL AMERICANS FIRST...we will destroy the unification that formed this country.

Am I terribly off track?

DKS

You were incredibly right by suggesting that people certainly are comprehending the original post differently! All I can say is that I think we have a large number of children from illegal alien homes in our local schools. The parents do not speak English so the children cannot have help with homework. It will take time for them to overcome the academic disadvantages. I welcome those of other cultures and races, but I do believe they should be required to learn English, get a social security card, and pay taxes just like I do. We adopted a child from another country and race, so I certainly am not prejudiced. But I strongly believe that integrating people to the point of common language and contributing to the tax system fairly are things that strengthen and unite the country, whereas the illegal situation with cultural and language barriers causes problems. My child was born in another country, but she is an AMERICAN! And we do not call her "other country-American" either!!!