Diamond Quality in Stores (High Street)

[AndyR1976]

This might be a stupid question because it seems very broad– but I’ll as k anyway and I’ll try to explain why I am asking.

What would the general quality of diamonds being sold in High Street retailers (specifically here in the UK)??

I understand that all jewellers probably have a range of stones available to them from very good through to very poor quality, but just hear me out here:

Most people on this forum are obviously careful about what they buy and look carefully into purchasing their diamonds. I am very much like that and look into things and learn about them so I know I am getting value for money (just a habit I guess, plus I like learning about new things).

However, a lot of people probably walk in off the street and buy from a major retailer without really knowing much about diamonds.

Someone said to me that, here in the UK, you would not find any diamonds above a H, SI2, with good cut etc. in High Street shops. I am not talking about your good quality local jewellers or premium stores, but your average, run of the mill chain jewellers across the country. I am thinking specifically about diamonds in the range form 0.5 to 1 carat, to be used in solitaire engagement rings etc.

Is this a good general rule?

Let me put it to you this way – if H. Samuel (a large jeweller in the UK) employed you as a buyer for their diamonds, what sort of stones would you be looking for?? – or would they buy a range of stones from very very good through to very very poor.

this has come from my recent shopping and learning about diamonds - I am looking to get an engagement ring for my other half - somewhere in the 1 - 1/5 carat range with qualities better than H, SI1 and very good cut, symmetry etc. I am just in the early stages of learning and lots of silly questions pop into my head - like, for example, when I walk past jeweller windows I wonder what the quality of all the stones are!!!!

Thanks - I have learned so much from this forum already, this is my first post!

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Andy and welcome

There are a few Brits here, myself included along with Pyramid and Maisie who will probably provide some input. It seems to me that cut quality isn''t really of much importance here, e-ring buyers tend to look at VS goods of middling colour and buy with their eyes. This is fine, but really there aren''t many examples of well cut diamonds in those type of stores to choose from, so that the buyer can decide how important cut is to them. It would be great for cut to become a higher priority here and for jewellers to educate buyers and show them their options more, but it seems that old habits die hard, plus diamonds are so expensive here, it is my opinion that buyers would rather spend more on VS and feel they have a quality diamond, than possibly drop to an eyeclean SI with a better cut. In my experience, SI clarities aren''t regarded as '' quality'' here by the industry so much.

I would advocate great cuts of traditional proportions to Superideals and definitely lower clarities and even colours for those who might be open minded and can see the difference for themselves.

 

[AndyR1976]

Hi L, thanks for your reply - these forums are great for people like me who, 3 weeks ago, knew NOTHING about diamonds - it is much more of a specialised topic than I had anticipated!

U have been doing some reading on the net with people saying that it is worth dropping one or 2 grades on the clarity and colour to get a better cut - I am learning a lot and hopefully in the next few weeks I''ll be able to make that very special purchase!!

Also, just one correction from your reply - I''m not a Brit (how dare you suggest that I am

) - I am an Australian. Been in the UK for 3 years now!

Cheers and thanks for your reply

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/18/2007 7:57:11 AM
Author: AndyR1976
Hi L, thanks for your reply - these forums are great for people like me who, 3 weeks ago, knew NOTHING about diamonds - it is much more of a specialised topic than I had anticipated!

U have been doing some reading on the net with people saying that it is worth dropping one or 2 grades on the clarity and colour to get a better cut - I am learning a lot and hopefully in the next few weeks I'll be able to make that very special purchase!!

Also, just one correction from your reply - I'm not a Brit (how dare you suggest that I am

) - I am an Australian. Been in the UK for 3 years now!

Cheers and thanks for your reply

I am so sorry to have assumed and implied that you were a Pom, my humble apologies to you!

Hehehe...but yes it is generally best to get a great cut and drop the colour and clarity. We call it not paying for what the eye can't see, many SI2 clarities out there which are extremely eyeclean and look the same at normal vision as VS or VVS etc. Also a great cut helps hide inclusions, also a lower colour can face up better than it's actual colour grade with a great cut, superior light return helps this.

I don't know if you have come across the advanced tutorial yet, http://diamonds.pricescope.com/ but this is full of great info and is a must read for anyone buying a diamond.

 

[dandylioncat]

I have checked out the main highstreet jewellers in the UK myself before purchasing a loose stone. The prices for rings in highstreet stores is signficantly higher (30-50%) than buying a loose stone and setting from the internet or from a diamond merchant in the UK.

Samuels sells SI2 and I1 with colours I and J.
Ernest Jones sells SI2 and SI1 with colour H/I and this includes the Leo diamond range which is their most expensive.
Goldsmiths - SI1/SI2 with colour H/I and this includes their Millennium diamond
Argos sells I1/I2 with colour I and J

Sometimes the websites will tell you, if not you have to go in and ask - I did a bit of both..

Occasionally Goldsmiths and Ernest Jones will sell certificated ones but at SI1 and SI2 level.

So in a nutshell what you have been told is about right. SI2, H/I/J is about the highest most stores stock as standard.

The only ones I know of with any cut information from the above stores is the Leo Diamond from Ernest Jones and the Millenium Diamond at Goldsmiths.

It''s true that sometimes you can come down in colour and clarity to obtain a larger stone. However, it really is down to preference. My girlfriend is colour sensitive so she wanted higher colour(F), but she only wanted SI1 clarity in the stone and to focus on cut and size.

There are a few good jewellers that sell fully certified loose stones, but the price is at a complete premium.

When I make my final decision on a stone and include the platinum setting (another thing which in the UK significantly hikes the price), savings will be made on even Argos prices which is the cheapest in the market place.

I think the problem for us Brits is as has been already said. We are just not educated about diamonds and cut isn''t advertised. Jewellers would push a guy to go up to VS-VVS clarity in order to buy our gf a good stone, but really it isn''t about that. Unless it''s really low clarity then that has no effect on how well a diamond sparkles.

Anyway, enough - have fun hunting and I hope you find a real beaut'' of a stone.

'');" alt="Insert smilie

" src="http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/26.gif" border="0">

 

[pyramid]

Hello Andy. Welcome to Pricescope

I feel that in the UK a lot of the emphasis is on the ring design rather than the quality of the diamond. You are mentioning a 1 and a half carat diamond, I would not buy a diamond that size from a chain store. Having said that though it depends on your budget and what you want too. To get a very good 1 and half carat diamond it will cost a lot more than a chain store one. I would say about £10,000-15000 in a local jewellers and you will only have maybe 2 to pick from and no real information on angles, most likely it will be a lower tier lab which has graded the diamond. The chain stores may sell one that size for like £5000 and this is not going to be an equal diamond.

As Lorelei says cut quality is not really considered over here. One jeweller, a high end local one I spoke to told me I was mistaken mentioning crown and pavillion angles as important and that Polish and Symmetry were far more important and his partner agreed with this. Well they are important but Crown and Pavillion angles being in sync are what makes the diamond most beautiful.

What others have said are the types of colour and clarity sold by chain stores. However, they are not wrong, their prices are higher because they have lots of staff, bright lighting to pay for, have to stay open long hours , have discount schemes for staff, and have enormous rates to pay for renting the stores in the mall in the middle of cities.

If you are looking to buy from an internet vendor you will have to factor in 17.5% VAT and 2.5% Customs charges, but will still find that you are paying way less than you would in the UK for a GIA certificated diamond. AGS is also good but not found really in the UK.

There is a market though for what chain stores sell, not everyone is really into diamonds, they just want a pretty stone, they want to pick a fashionable mounting which a local jeweller may or may not have. I suppose it is a bit like other things like Cars, it is individual choice. Property is very expensive in the UK and people have to make the choice to put their money there, also big diamond rings are not coveted in the UK in the way they are in USA. Most people over here think a half carat diamond is big.

If I was going to buy a ring for say £5000 I would go to the local jeweller or purchase on the internet from a trusted vendor, not just any internet seller but one you have seen and heard the reviews of from people buying. I would not buy from the chain store.

 

[surfgirl]

This conversation is really interesting...As an American, can someone explain why Brits aren''t that interested in the stats of their diamonds?

 

[yellowsparkles]

Good marketing in the US? Really, i would like to know also.

Date: 5/19/2007 9:09:59 PM
Author: surfgirl
This conversation is really interesting...As an American, can someone explain why Brits aren''t that interested in the stats of their diamonds?

Unless you are rich and a footballers wife / girlfriend, you just don''t see big bling.

This is just my opinion, for the average person things are expensive here. People pay a lot of money just to live - rent or mortgage, taxes (income and council), petrol, cars, insurance, etc. It really adds up and there just isn''t an emphasis on having a big diamond.

You know surfgirl, I know plenty of Americans who buy diamonds and don''t really care about the ''stats''. They just want a big diamond. I know of a couple of people who were looking to buy a diamond and I told them about pricescope and emphasized that they study this site before buying. Did they? NO! They don''t want the hassle. They went to the local jeweler and bought what pleased their eyes. They are still happy.

 

[pyramid]

I think that most Brits see big diamonds as showy, gaudy, over the top. I have read this on sites before in America also on here that the large diamond girls say the small diamond girls are just saying that because they are jealous and want a bigger diamond although this is always denied. Well British people in general do like smaller diamonds best, although I don't

I think a good half of them like coloured engagement rings better.

A lot of it is that houses are very expensive here but then people with expensive houses just seem to see diamonds are frivolous and it's just jewellery. If looking in a jewellery store window, there is maybe 2 over 1 carat diamonds, you will hear people say, 'look at that £7,000, imagine spending that on a diamond'. Always the person with them will agree.

Another phrase I have heard when people say about so and so wants a 1 and half carat diamond, is 'What, who does she think she is, the Queen of England'. It is just seen as really really over the top.

I think because people buy smaller diamonds e.g. 1/4 carat - 1/2 carat that it has never crossed their minds that how it is cut is anything to do with it. Jewellers don't promote it and I don't really think most of them know it is important - if they do they don't tell us. Maybe they buy in poor cuts and sell at top cut prices

It is only recently that most have started giving colour and clarity information. So the public are uninformed but I reallyl think most don't want to be. It is just a ring to them.

The older generation are very sentimental and would never think to part with the ring they were engaged with, the ring shank part, design being more important to them than the stone but then it all comes as one over here, people would not buy a large stone and have it set generally. I think the younger generation may not be as sentimental but they still see the relationship as the be all end all the ring is just jewellery.

 

[ladykemma]

i picked up a half carat over there. in fact the owner of the shop thought it was a fake and sold it to me for cz price. it has nice clarity and good color, just a guess it is a 60/60 cut.

 

[ladykemma]

i used to live in london. here is the stone i would select if i were stlll living there. For safety/security reasons, I felt very unsafe wearing my large stones in london. And people stare and suck their teeth "tsk" -- Very uncomfortable


Whiteflash
0.33 ct F VS1 A Cut Above H&A
$1,005.00 Item Available - Ready to ship

Item Code: AGS-7415306

. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.330
. Depth %: 61.1
. Table %: 54.4
. Crown Angle: 34.9
. Crown %: 15.8
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 40.8
. Pavilion %: 43
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 4.47-4.49X2.74
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

this stone is drop dead gorgeous.

 

[AndyR1976]

Thankyou everone for your comments on my post - sorry it has taken me a few days to get back (been busy).

I plan to buy within the next few months and I certainly don''t intend to buy through a High Street jeweller. I am learning a great deal through this forum and as my plans firm up I will almost certainly refer questions back to the members of this forum - I will even write a blog or little essay about the process of buying a diamond (from the point of view of a complete novice) that may help future readers!

My preference at the moment is to buy from an online dealer (looking at either diamondgeezer.com or whiteflash - both of which seem to have good recommendations.

As to having the stone set - I am thinking of taking it to a local jeweller here (a guy that has a little shop near where I live).

thanks everyone so far - you have been a great help and I will continue to watch the posts!!

A

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/22/2007 5:24:29 AM
Author: AndyR1976
Thankyou everone for your comments on my post - sorry it has taken me a few days to get back (been busy).

I plan to buy within the next few months and I certainly don''t intend to buy through a High Street jeweller. I am learning a great deal through this forum and as my plans firm up I will almost certainly refer questions back to the members of this forum - I will even write a blog or little essay about the process of buying a diamond (from the point of view of a complete novice) that may help future readers!

My preference at the moment is to buy from an online dealer (looking at either diamondgeezer.com or whiteflash - both of which seem to have good recommendations.

As to having the stone set - I am thinking of taking it to a local jeweller here (a guy that has a little shop near where I live).

thanks everyone so far - you have been a great help and I will continue to watch the posts!!

A

That would be great if you could find time to do so after your purchase, newbies find these very useful.

 

[Pandora II]

9 times out of 10 in the UK when people talk about cut they mean shape. On the whole the Brits are very uninformed on jewellery - which is sad when you consider we have one of the best gemmology courses in the world and worldclass gems on show here in London.

I''ve noticed here on PS that the Brit contingent tend to stick around - not too many 3 month posters. I think the fact we are here in the first place shows an abnormal interest in jewellery to start with!

I had a lot of odd looks from people because I spent so much time planning my e-ring. They can''t understand why I didn''t just buy something in an afternoon. I just look at their rings and know EXACTLY why I spent so much time.

With my ring - which is quite unusual, most girls have briefly glanced and gone "Finally... yeah that''s nice", however jewellers have been fascinated (they haven''t seen a tsavorite like mine before apparently - most think it''s a very fine emerald.) and gay men have been really enthusiastic.

Personally I love looking at any bling - but so many girls here get 0.30ct, which is fine, but they pay over the odds for a not very good rock. I think the word diamond is more important than the actual diamond. Most of my friends could easily afford a nice diamond, but just don''t seem interested

- ah well, each to their own!