Diamond Talk Shakedown?

[Rank Amateur]

----------------
On 2/26/2003 11:42:17 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:

I want one of those emails...
----------------

Me too!

But no smooch from Jonathan please!

 

[fire&ice]

I seriously question the wisdom of banning someone who:

1. Is a mature women of strong means.
2. Said women buys jewelry, gemstones diamonds & the like on a frequent basis.
3. Women has many friends in the same position. As well as older friends whose sons are "at that stage". Recently, one friend's son purchased over the internet w/ said women's help.
4. Not only an active participant in Ebay; but, a shareholder as well. DT is sponsered by Ebay.

Go figure. Maybe Gilbert is on vacation & Nathan is having his fun.

 

[lawmax]

----------------
On 2/27/2003 6:38:52 AM Rank Amateur wrote:

----------------
On 2/26/2003 11:42:17 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:

I want one of those emails...
----------------

Me too!

But no smooch from Jonathan please!
----------------

Hi R/A

 

[Hest88]

Gee, what shocking developments. I have the greatest respect for the knowledge of those who were just banned. Of course, I feel their pain

and wondered when DT would ease up, but I somehow never thought that the actions of the moderators would get so blatantly reckless.

 

[optimized]

? I'm very intrigued to hear more of the story. I'm not interested in bashing anyone or anything, but this story sounds extremely interesting!

-Tim

[/u]

 

[aljdewey]

I've tried to figure out this thread, but I'm lost.

How does everyone know that these posters have been banned from DT? Where does it say that?

(my investigative skills are evidently evaporating)

Thanks

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 2/27/2003 11

0:40 AM optimized wrote:


? I'm very intrigued to hear more of the story. I'm not interested in bashing anyone or anything, but this story sounds extremely interesting!

-Tim

Opt, The current situation has nothing to do with that anouncement. All banned members have one thing in common... a post on a thread in DT "chit chat" "apology for the delay". The moderator was very ugly to a long time DT poster. I happen to have inside knowledge that one poster believed the response was an injustice. And "said" poster made that view known. Not only was this poster accused of being a diamond vendor in disguise, the poster was out the door w/ no warning or explaination.




[/u]

 

[aljdewey]

HOLY COW!!!! Can anyone spell....."thought police"? Because that's eerily what it seems like over there. I am an extremely infrequent visitor over on DT....mostly because I find the quality of discussion much higher here. The content of the discussion here on Pricescope seems much more mature than on DT, but I guess I can understand why when I see the petulant tone is set by the administrator of DT.

Fire & Ice, thanks for the reference info on this.

 

[pyramid]

43facets

About:
DT Level: Unverified
Member since: Jul 2002
Status: offline
PM Add Ignore

Karma Meter:
Post: 237 of 1027
(4.85 per day)
Post 42 - #191457 09-05-02 03

1 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


quote:
Originally posted by littlesweetyqt
What a classy guy....






.feeling a little opinionated this morning.....

but, yes, my thoughts exactly.





CHANGED YOUR MIND PER CHANCE!

 

[pyramid]

Rank Amateur

About:
DT Level: Banned
Member since: Nov 2000
Status: offline

Karma Meter:
Hits: Out=0, In=1
Post: 1491 of 1818
(2.17 per day)
Post 15 - #191323 09-05-02 02:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
definitely NOT my last post
Newsflash: my name is not really Rank Amateur. Please address me as "Sven Knoutenbach" from now on.


I for one am not going to miss the "If I have a distended unnatural on my girdle that occasionally breaks the surface in my EGL-Kandahar graded diamond from exactly how many feet up in the air can I drop it if it lands on sod with two-inch depth over a sandy substrate? What if the soil is a silty clay? Anyone...anyone? Beuller?"

Sven

p.s. I'll wait until the anti-Wink has sentiment has built up sufficiently before I jump on that bandwagon.
last edited by Rank Amateur on 09-05-02 at 02:44 AM
Report post to moderator



NO AND THEY WON'T MISS YOU EITHER RANK

 

[pyramid]

43facets

About:
DT Level: Unverified
Member since: Jul 2002
Status: offline
PM Add Ignore

Karma Meter:
Post: 251 of 1027
(4.85 per day)
Post 23 - #192055 09-06-02 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


quote:
Originally posted by Maria D
>>Please remove my other aliases Japa and Coloured Light.<<

Don't forget joce!

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/s...=&threadid=3957




Maria






Maria, I am beginning to think you have missed your calling as a secret agent or investigating reporter. Actually, we could use both in the world today. Woodward would be proud



HA HA. MARIA.D. ANOTHER OF THE BANNED CLAN

 

[niceice]

----------------
Hey Robin-Todd, where is that thread? I didn't see it when I just snuck over there to look.
----------------

We honestly couldn't tell you. When we try to bring up the main page of DT we reach the log-in error screen and any of the links listed there result in "page not found" it appears that our IP has actually been blocked. Must have hit a nerve

Of course, we KNEW we were going to hit a nerve! We knew what we were doing when we did it and we knew that we would probably be permanently banned from DT. No loss. We thought about what we were going to say in advance and we made a stance knowing full well that it would probably be our last. The reality is that we only recently started posting to DT and thus we didn't have as much to lose as some of the other vendors who have invested many years of their time contributing to DT and "eating their words" for fear of being banned as so many have been before them.

Since we have no doubt that our footsteps have been erased from the history books of DT, we will say that we publicly opposed the moderator of the Diamond section of DT and critisized him for publicly attacking Rhino for his post pertaining to his weather related "absence". We pointed out that the Mod. seemed to have a particular interest in Rhino since he seemed to be acting in a manner which was overzealous regarding the post being moved - specifically that he attacked Rhino rather than simply moving the post from the Diamond section of the forum to the chat section as he has with so many other posts without comment... And that many of those other posts which were quietly moved were those of the prominent advertisers of DT.

We went on to say that it seemed to us that these types of forums needed the participation of the dealers and appraisers to merely survive - after all, where would any of these forums be if the only participants were the public - leading the public - without any real knowledge of the product or industry. That there had to be a balance of understanding regarding a dealers acts of what the moderator referred to as "self promotion" and participation with the community that makes up such a forum. You see, we really feel that these forums are "communities" and as such there will be misunderstandings, confusion, disagreements, and a lot of fun! We felt that Jonathan's post regarding his "absence" was merely a response to the many inquiries being made on the various threads on DT asking him to respond to specific inquiries which were addressed to him... His explanation regarding his absence in our opinion was clearly an attempt to let the "community" know why he had not responded to those threads in a timely manner - easier to post a three line thread than try to find the time to address a myriad of messages while in "catch up mode"... As direct competitors of Rhino's we recognize this, so we asked why the moderator couldn't see it from the high place of his throne.

On another thread we suggested that Rhino was being CENSORED without cause and provided a link to the Blue Ribbon campaign sponsored by the Free Speach Coalition or something like that... Yea, we like to hold the
Finally we drove the last nail in our coffin by mentioning the thread entitled something like "it's a new year at DT" that gives reference to what we assume to be DCC (referenced above) by stating something along the lines of "now we understand the true meaning behind that article - what really happened... why people have left DT and started a new community of their own"... And pointed out that if DT made it so unpleasant and difficult for people to openly participate in their forums, that it was not beyond the financial capabilities of most of the dealers to open their own forums where they would not be so strictly monitored. Do you know how difficult it is to have to watch every word that you write to ensure that you are not promoting yourself, your store, or the services that you offer? What should take three minutes to draft as a response that flows as "casual conversation" takes twenty minutes to rephrase so that it is acceptable to the Moderators on DT. Who needs it? Certainly not us and probably not any of the other diamond dealers on the internet, most of us spend a small fortune every month $$$ driving traffic to our sites and we certainly don't need to refer that traffic off to DT or any other forum simply to introduce our clients to our competitors... We chose to participate because it seemed like an open thing to do... A way to share information with the public, most of whom really need a way to better understand what they are trying to buy... Those of you who have seen our contributions to DT have probably noted that we openly admit that it is possible to find diamonds with equal visual performance to the ideals that we sell, we were not there to "self promote" but rather to educate from a perspective of experience.

We hope that we have said nothing here which violates the rules of PS - we don't think that we have, nor are we trying to "make a point" of any kind regarding this forum. We are simply explaining why we got kicked off DT... We entered a community with open minds, we didn't like what there was to see, and we decided to stand up and tell the Dictator how we felt. The Dictator didn't like what we had to say, he ordered the troops to execute us publicly - but yet we remain alive to haunt their halls from yet another venue

 

[optimized]

(for now, anyway). I applaud the stand taken by you two! The impression I get from reading the posts following Jonathan's deleted post makes me feel like he was wronged, and it was great for someone to stand up for him. I wish I'd seen his post before it was axed. I would probably written one of my verbose replies to DT's response (although with such a splendid reply by NiceIce, it would have probably been redundant).

I post Robin and Todd's post below. I trust they don't mind me doing this, but if there is any problem with this I will be happy to ask Leonid to remove it. I certainly think it's worth reading though...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NiceIce

About:
DT Level: Banned
Member since: Mar 2000
Status: offline
Company: Treasures by R.J.

Karma Meter:
Hits: Out=133, In=61
Post: 143 of 147
(0.14 per day)
Referrals: 1
Post 11 - #251509 02-26-03 02:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't feel that the thread was self promoting at all, however maybe it should have been posted in Miscellaneous / Chat or something... Prior to making his post, Jonathan had been being attacked in several threads on DT/Diamonds for failing to respond to questions that were specifically addressed to him regarding some of the explanations on his web site, we felt it appropriate that he posted something indicating why he had been unable to respond.

Obviously the moderators on DT don't agree with our thoughts on the matter, and since we are merely contributors to the threads on DT our opinion really doesn't matter, but as a direct competitor of Jonathan's we would like to say that we didn't take any offense at the post, nor did we see it as self-promotion. We were quite surprised by the position taken on it by DT and the reality is that there would probably have been less discussion regarding Jonathan's post if the thread had simply been moved... We frequently see threads moved on DT - without comment and did find ourselves wondering why the moderator felt it necessary to comment on this specific post as opposed to the others we see moved daily without comment.

As a contributor to DT and other forums, we would like to say that it is a little confusing as to what will be considered "appropriate" by the moderators and what will not. Often times a simple comment is interpreted as being an intentional major violation of the policies which are in force, when in reality it was not an intentional "act" at all.

We think that there has to be some leeway in the "interpretation" of what is said by the contributors and the actions taken on those comments by the moderators... For instance, we were recently "reprimanded" on another forum (not DT) for "self promotion" when we made a statement regarding two brand name versions of diamonds... (note that those brands are not mentioned here because we don't want to make the same mistake twice - life as we know it is a learning curve, we try not to make the same mistakes twice). A person had asked for a visual comparison between two specific brands of diamonds... We indicated that "we represented both brands in our store, but that we could not sell them on-line." In our minds, we were clearly indicating that we were familiar with both brands because we sold them, thus we were in a position to actually comment on the differences in cut as opposed to merely hypothecate on the differences in cut, however we felt that we eliminated the "self promotion" aspect of the reply by clearly stating that "we could not sell them on-line" and hey, how many people are going to fly to Roseburg, Oregon to compare the stones side-by-side in our store when they can be found in any major store in any major city? Not very likely...

Nevertheless, we were reprimanded for the post and threatened with being permanently banned from the forum if we did it again - we've received one other warning and that was for making the link beneath our signature a descriptive link to our web site (the same as appears here on DT - so much for a common sense approach to the rules)...

It's kind of funny, the threat of being permanently banned did not make us tremble with fear and think "oh no, we're going to get kicked off "Forum X" for violating protocal and actually indicating that we sell something... Because we know exactly where to purchase the scripts that run these types of forums and like many of our competitors we have the financial resources and programming talent available to us to create our own diamond forum on one of our web sites... Heck, it would probably be more effective for us in terms of promoting our business and retaining our clients - the link on our site leading our clients to DT only opens them up to be preyed upon by our competitors - think about it... We spend a lot of money to get people to our site, why do we want to send them off to a diamond forum where they will meet our competitors? For the education? Most of us provide a pretty in-depth education on our sites already.

Didn't we see a thread indicating that this "was a new year on DT" that specifically addressed the fact that several former DT contributors had left DT to launch their own forum? At the time we read it, we could appreciate DT's position, but the more we watch the apparent politics of DT, we find ourselves understanding why the competition might have been started... Don't know for sure though, because we weren't around to see it boil over.

Perhaps the moderators need to realize that DT is a forum which serves the joint interests of the diamond buying public and the diamond trade - we both need each other to make DT and forums like it work... Where would forums like DT be if no vendors or appraisers participated in the discussions? It would be the blind leading the blind so-to-speak... Consumers answering questions for consumers - at least for awhile.

It is clear to us that the diamond dealers should not be promoting their services by listing particular stones for sale or recommending their own merchandise for sale as an alternative to something a consumer has found and asked for opinions on... However DT is also a "community" and as such, it develops relationships between the members on all levels. We feel it fair to reason that a member be able to indicate that they are back in circulation especially when he is being attacked on several threads for failing to comment on issues directed specifically to him to be answered.

We also feel that this entire thread should never have had to existed at all... But here it is in black and white - we wonder what is written between the lines in Gray...
last edited by NiceIce on 02-26-03 at 02:32 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-Tim

[/u]

 

[okaynow]

I like pricescope.

Diamond talk is such a bitter place. Its hard to go there and not lose your excitement for diamonds. There are too many elitists in there that care only about pointing out why other people are wrong and they are right. Way too politcal for my tastes.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Hey Robin and Todd

Your IP hasn't likely been banned, you just need to reset your cookies so that your computer isn't trying to log you on when you go there.

 

[Mara]

I believe that what Rhino posted was something along the lines of what he posted on Pscope (see thread below--same thread title as the one on DT) at the same time. How DT could construe Rhino giving an FYI on the fact that his biz was down for 2 days as an advertising ploy or a call for more business etc is completely beyond me. It was good business for Rhino to be thoughtful enough to take the time to let DT and Pscope people know what was going on, esp for those who may have emailed or tried the site only to find no response or a server down etc.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/apology-for-slight-delay-in-response-time.4940/}

We are glad to have all the banned entities here! Yay.

 

[aljdewey]

The thread that one of you was asking about is in the chit-chat section.....

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29148&highlight=apology+for+the+delay

 

[mike04456]

I truly think DT's days are numbered. I've seen this pattern before. The nastiness, arbitrary banning, and the CC# requirement will swiftly kill off the influx of new members that any online community needs to survive.

 

[Rhino]

My apologies for not being able to participate more or comment here. I have things to share and I defineitely feel I've been wronged, Nathan is on a rampage over there. Mara ... you are 100% correct. I posted the same type of thread here on pricescope and it was totally harmless, no in your face advertising whatsoever. Nathan's comments were totally uncalled for however I have received nasty & rude pm's from him in the past so nothing from this guy surprises me. I've been posting there for over 2 years or so and didn't do anything different from what I've always done now all of a sudden anything I wrote over there is wrong. Go figure.

Until I get out from under my email load ya'll will see more of me.

You guys are the best.

NiceIce, Rank & 43facets... Thanks for standing by me and speaking up when you saw how uncalled for Nathan's actions were. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. Not that you were sticking up for me personally but just standing up for what's right in general. That is to be commended.

Anyone want a job answering email?

Peace,
Rhino

 

[niceice]

Thanks to Optimized for finding our thread! We knew that we made more sense on the original thread than we were making in our re-hash of what we recalled posting... Leonid can certainly remove it if he has a problem with it, we personally don't care one way or the other - as far as we're concerned, we posted it publicly and posting it on DT for the public to see is no different than having it posted on PS for the public to see... If nothing else, people can see exactly why we were banned from DT and our status is confirmed within the member profile section as banned. Somebody mentioned that we could reset our cookies, but actually we have no further interest in seeing what is happening on DT, it seems to us that they are slowly committing suicide...

-----------------
NiceIce, Rank & 43facets... Thanks for standing by me and speaking up when you saw how uncalled for Nathan's actions were.
-----------------

Thanks Rhino, but as you stated, we weren't necessarily doing it for you. The situation was simply wrong and we've never been ones to stand by and simply watch from the sidelines when we think something is wrong. If more people stood up for what they believed in (more of us would be dead) um, we mean, this would be an even better country than it already is.

 

[ociopia]

I know this is going to sound really odd but I, for one, am happy in a completely selfish manner that so many of the "really good vendor-type people" are here and not here and there. Why? I was going nuts trying to read everything in both places!

On a non-narcissistic note, I am so hoping that this is not a financial blow to those of you who get business from DT's "newbies" - as surely it is an extremely well-visited site. However, the more of YOU that are here, the more this site will start getting "hit."

As someone very new, I can't help but think that the owner/moderators of dt are either a) seriously paranoid in a big mental NOT-health way or b) this is all about money and competition for buyers. Eventually perhaps only vendors who buy banner ads will remain on dt. And perhaps those that remain on dt are very glad others are not there to compete with them? (That wasn't very nice of me to say!)

It seems terribly self-destructive of dt. Who wants to participate in a diamond forum where only "owners and want-to-be owners of diamonds" participate? Obviously, these forums are fascinating because of the tremendously varied and valuable input of professionals. The rest of everyone is on some continuum of "me - who knows very little to - many regular participants who know an incredible amount."

So - could someone please explain to me (private if they wish) how to post photos to this forum where they actually appear in the body, as opposed to only being an attachment? I just can't seem to figure that out!

 

[rodentman]

Maybe they keep me there since they know I can shoot myself in the foot all day long.

 

[Rank Amateur]

I just noticed that AGBF, Rockdoc, and GoodOldGold get censored into ****, *******, and *********** . Too funny!!

 

[Mara]

So that is what that meant! I was looking at the e-ring picture topic/thread over there the other day for a little eye-candy fix, and wondered what the **** was as it seemed by reading the context of the message that there was no swear word in there, so couldn't figure out WHAT could be censored in a sentence such as 'I love ****** and they gave me the best diamond ever!'

Now I know.

 

[Rhino]

Haha... Mara. I noticed that too! Every place RockDocs name is mentioned there is a ****** and anywhere my website is mentioned, even from a recent poster you see www.****************
diamondtalk has died. It's a has-been and censorship is rampant. As 43 facets put it ... moderated to death. Gilbert really needs to get a handle on things over there. I really like Gilbert alot. I don't think it's him that's bringing it down as much as his partner is.

Ociopia,

I agree. I think it is great that so many pro's are here on one forum to participate. Of all the forums you've got a tight ship here with Leonid who does a fine job in moderating and communicating with all the people who participate. For quite a while now I've held this forum in higher esteem as the quality of both the questions and answers focuses on what people come here for. Quality information and educated opinions from people who are in this business, experience this stuff day by day and have lived out and observed the answers to those who are seeking them. I am glad to be here.

Good to see you too Rank! Now you just gotta asign yourself an avatar!

Peace,
Rhino

 

[optimized]

Jonathan wrote:

"Anyone want a job answering email?

"

Shouldn't make jokes like that, Jonathan. I'm just WAITING for an opportunity to wedge myself into this business, and your operation would be a prime target...

-Tim

 

[Mara]

Hah! Get in line, Tim!

 

[PuddyKat]

so that's what www.*********** on DT means!

 

[Iceman]

Here is my only email I got from Gilbertz , I was confused because the last couple of months were at Christmas and I was not
on there posting ? Yes , I don't pay a dime on advertising with them , I feel what I contribute 8000 posts were enough to keep
me in good graces with them. I don't think they would ban people that pay money do you??? Anyway here is the letter .

----------------------------------

Subject:
Your $0.02, one last time, maybe
Date:
Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:11:40 -0500
From:
Gilbert
To:





Dear Iceman,

We have shared some good times and some bad times. I suppose it will
be no shock to you that I have not enjoyed your posts for several
months. For quite some time I've been wondering what in the hell I've
ever done to you to deserve such a lousy attitude.

Now that I have almost finished cleaning up things on the consumer
side of the equation, I can do the even more important job of
cleaning things up on the vendor side of the equation.


------------------------------------

Ok, after I got that message I figured I need to say my good-byes, so I did.
The funny part was, 2 weeks later he posted I was banned !!!!
I emailed him back and said "Nice touch" "Do you know that's like an employee quitting their job and the boss calls 2 weeks
later and say's YOUR FIRED!" No answer, he does not return email.

He took my sons name off the list that had nothing to do with it also? What ever

He has taken out the people that are the experts and some of the good consumers and leaving the remaining experts that are
afraid to post.

I don't get it. I said my good-byes over there.

The funny thing is they keep "Bella"??????? She has got a few warnings, which is more then most have before the boot.

Anyway it gives me more time to help with the education over here and DCC

Nuff said
The Iceman

 

[AGBF]

I have not been reading Pricescope, Diamond Chit Chat, or Diamond Talk regularly so if I post some abysmally ignorant things, please forgive me.

I know little about the current state of affairs on Diamond Talk, but more than a bit about the past since I was one of the very early posters to Diamond Talk. (I believe I joined in March, 2000.)

In this thread one person asked who owned Diamond Talk and another posted the name and address of Joe Devon. I *believe* that Joe Devon is simply an employee who does work on the technical aspects of Diamond Talk.

I have no personal knowledge of who owns what percentage of Diamond Talk, but the owner of record of the "parent company", Diamondring.com, is Joseph Sclussel. Some of you who used to read Diamond Talk back when there was a picture of a smiling blonde (for no apparent reason) may recall that there was speculation as to why her picture was up. She is Debbie Schlussel, Joseph Schlussel's daughter.

The people who make decisons about Diamond Talk policy include the administrators: Gilbert and Nathan. They are *NOT* the only people involved, however. I would speculate that Joseph Schlussel is also involved.

Another concern metioned in this thread by someone was what the Diamond Talk administration might do with with her credit card information.

I do not believe the administrators will in any way abuse the information financially. Believe it or not, I think they have *some* decency.

If you make waves the administrators/owners will, however, read your PMs and trace down from what sites you visited Diamond Talk. If, like me, you belong to any private groups they will try your Diamond Talk password (to which they have access) to get into the other group and, if successful in that endeavor, they will read your private group then publish defamatory information about you on their website.

They may *not* publish all the private information they learned. They may not discuss your spouse's infidelities or your children's mental retardation on Diamond Talk. They *WILL*, however, send snippets of what you wrote-edited for effect-to people about whom you care.

They will try to tear you and your friends apart by falsely making your friends think you betray them behind their backs. They will have no regard for the feelings of those they hurt in an attempt to harm YOU. If telling one of your friends that you called him unreliable suits their purposes they will do that. Even if it hurts your innocent friend's feelings deeply. Even if it is taken totally out of context.

Their rule seems to be that "hitting below the belt" is telling stories about your family (although they know them) but anything remotely connected to Diamond Talk is fair game.

Since this thread, which has been left here, mentions all the elements I address I am assuming it is all right to add what I know.

When I see other rational and thoughtful people (like R/A and NiceIce) being treated as my friends and I were, I relive what it was like to be banned first, so that I had no voice, then defamed.

Since I was part of Diamond talk for so many years, *MANY* readers know my real name and e-mail address and phone number. When Gilbert, Nathan, et al defamed a character named AGBF, I was defamed to all those people who knew me off-line.

Many newer posters to Diamond Talk believed I must be a harpy and a troublemaker because Gilbert said I was (after silencing me). If they had read the archives and followed what Gilbert posted to and about me for many years they would see that the picture was quite, quite different.

I was at Gilbert's side after 9/11, trying to help when he set up a website with the names of victims. Unbeknownst to me Gilbert had considered asking me to become the moderator of the forum.

Once I became troublesome (read: trying to shed light on the darkness) I became evil. The archives (until they are doctored) will show the truth, however. And many oldtimers here *KNOW* the truth because they lived it with Gilbert and me.

There may be some depths to which the owners of Diamond Talk will not sink, but the depths to which they *will* sink are profound.

AGBF