Diamonds in Diamond Dock Videos

[Rod]

Maybe it''s me, but the first video did not make me want to run out and trade my diamond for a Solasfera. I personally felt the "non-fera" held it''s own quite nicely. Maybe, that was the point??

Just a layman''s view...........

 

[He Scores]

RE: Garry, diamond cut grading comes down to the observation and opinion of beauty you cant do that totally with an IS scope or on a computer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Looks can be decieving. Look grade and Cut (workmanship) grade are not the same.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/10/2006 2:55:35 PM
Author: He Scores



RE: Garry, diamond cut grading comes down to the observation and opinion of beauty you cant do that totally with an IS scope or on a computer.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Looks can be decieving. Look grade and Cut (workmanship) grade are not the same.



Bill Bray

Diamond Cutter

I agree with you that there is a difference and I look at both for my own purchases but with both GIA and AGS calling theirs a cut grade its a lost battle so I joined em.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/10/2006 2:55:35 PM
Author: He Scores


RE: Garry, diamond cut grading comes down to the observation and opinion of beauty you cant do that totally with an IS scope or on a computer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Looks can be decieving. Look grade and Cut (workmanship) grade are not the same.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

I was teasing gentlemen, just teasing.

But ideal-scope is a lighting environemnt, it is consistent, portable, affordable etc.
and it does illustrate elements of workmanship that show up in lessor optical symmetry.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/10/2006 7:32:44 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 4/10/2006 2:55:35 PM
Author: He Scores


RE: Garry, diamond cut grading comes down to the observation and opinion of beauty you cant do that totally with an IS scope or on a computer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Looks can be decieving. Look grade and Cut (workmanship) grade are not the same.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

I was teasing gentlemen, just teasing.

But ideal-scope is a lighting environemnt, it is consistent, portable, affordable etc.
and it does illustrate elements of workmanship that show up in lessor optical symmetry.

Garry You forgot to mention that the IS doesn't make you seasick like the video does..
Too much of that good Aussie Red before taking video me thinks

 

[Rhino]

Just a note on the lighting.

LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis. I don''t think there are any 2 lighting environments that are identical so debating whether the led''s are sufficient or not to me is moot. If I had taken the video in direct sunlight, we could make an argument that we can''t bring the sun around with us all the time too.

The 12 LED''s represent a lighting environment that is neither too strong nor too weak which is why I like them. They are sufficient to make the observation under and do it accurately, insomuch that a layman can see the differences for himself. In fact an upcoming program we''ll be featuring on "The Nature of Scintillation" shows the differences of nuances in scintillation amongst diamonds with similar proportions, the only difference ... altering minor facet measurements and demonstrating how they impact scintillation.

Garry... I am able to capture the visible differences among the GIA Cut grades. From Excellent to Very Good, Good, Fair and Poor so I am not limited to comparisons of trash vs cherries. Of course viewing these videos on DVD are a whole lot more clear as the quality and resolution of the high definition transfer doesn''t come through as well on a 320 x 240 video file but you can see the differences in them nonetheless.

I''ll demonstrate these things in an upcoming program.

Thanks for the kind words folks.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 4/10/2006 2:51:32 PM
Author: Rod
Maybe it''s me, but the first video did not make me want to run out and trade my diamond for a Solasfera. I personally felt the ''non-fera'' held it''s own quite nicely. Maybe, that was the point??

Just a layman''s view...........

Hi Rod,

The video on the Solsafera was not to try and drive someone towards that stone. I apologize if you got that impression. We do love and enjoy its appearance but we posted that because we get many requests by folks to view the differences side by side in an equally lit environment. If I did not make it clear in the video the comparison is between 2 beautiful stones, both with excellent brightness, fire and scintillation. They are simply 2 different flavors of super ideals and we get many folks who choose either way. Interestingly the Solasfera diamond is perhaps the only type of stone we have analysed that has edge to edge reds in reflector technologies that do not incorporate painting to acheive it.

Kind regards,

 

[Rhino]

Date: 4/9/2006 10:59:16 PM
Author: kaleigh
I liked both the videos. #2 was clear on my computer and was very well done IMHO.

Thanks Kaleigh!

I''m glad you appreciated them. Leo cut my mug shot out of the Princess one though!

heh... perhaps a good idea? I certainly don''t want to scare anyone.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/10/2006 9:21:44 PM
Author: Rhino
Just a note on the lighting.

LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis.

Rhino..Sorry, I disagree.. The 12 Leds represent a specific high angle environment and because they are limited in scope and angle of incidence, they can significantly alias any result. Might give you a pretty picture and a sales tool but hardly a way to judge the overall difference in cutting quality. Just as GIA''s single chromatic flare from above is not necessarily a measure of overall fire potential. Sorry, but that is the science.

Have you ordered your 1000 DiamondDork selling tools yet? The price should come down significantly as the warehouse fills up with unsold units and they have a fire sale.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/10/2006 11:02:21 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/10/2006 9:21:44 PM
Author: Rhino
Just a note on the lighting.

LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis.

Rhino..Sorry, I disagree.. The 12 Leds represent a specific high angle environment and because they are limited in scope and angle of incidence, they can significantly alias any result. Might give you a pretty picture and a sales tool but hardly a way to judge the overall difference in cutting quality. Just as GIA''s single chromatic flare from above is not necessarily a measure of overall fire potential. Sorry, but that is the science.

Have you ordered your 1000 DiamondDork selling tools yet? The price should come down significantly as the warehouse fills up with unsold units and they have a fire sale.

LED Fire sale

 

[Rhino]

Hi Marty,

We''ll just to have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. There are many different spot lighting environments one can examine diamonds under. I have made use of leds for years and am familiar with what kind of appearance to expect from them. There are many varying intensities of spot lighting environments from as strong as the sun to as weak as far away spot lighting in a high ceiling in a restaurant. Which one is correct? All of them and none of them.

My primary concern is that the lighting is not showing a deceptive view but one that is truthful and factual to represent the appearance in that environment.

Thanks for your constructive criticisms.

Kind regards,

 

[cymbrie]

Well I''m no expert, but I certainly enjoyed the videos VERY cool THANKYOUVERYMUCH...now will we be seeing any asschers under the diamond doc anytime soon

?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/10/2006 11:02:21 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/10/2006 9:21:44 PM

Author: Rhino

Just a note on the lighting.


LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis.

Rhino..Sorry, I disagree.. The 12 Leds represent a specific high angle environment and because they are limited in scope and angle of incidence, they can significantly alias any result. Might give you a pretty picture and a sales tool but hardly a way to judge the overall difference in cutting quality. Just as GIA''s single chromatic flare from above is not necessarily a measure of overall fire potential. Sorry, but that is the science.


Have you ordered your 1000 DiamondDork selling tools yet? The price should come down significantly as the warehouse fills up with unsold units and they have a fire sale.

Marty your crack is showing.
snide remarks are not educational and are counter productive.
It is getting old,,,,,
Your a smart guy so lets hear your design for a lightbox to do a "look" study with.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/11/2006 12:29:28 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/10/2006 11:02:21 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/10/2006 9:21:44 PM

Author: Rhino

Just a note on the lighting.


LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis.

Rhino..Sorry, I disagree.. The 12 Leds represent a specific high angle environment and because they are limited in scope and angle of incidence, they can significantly alias any result. Might give you a pretty picture and a sales tool but hardly a way to judge the overall difference in cutting quality. Just as GIA''s single chromatic flare from above is not necessarily a measure of overall fire potential. Sorry, but that is the science.


Have you ordered your 1000 DiamondDork selling tools yet? The price should come down significantly as the warehouse fills up with unsold units and they have a fire sale.

Marty your crack is showing.
snide remarks are not educational and are counter productive.
It is getting old,,,,,
Your a smart guy so lets hear your design for a lightbox to do a ''look'' study with.

storm you probably need a light room, not a box.

You did not try any of those simple experiments?

Rhino - did you ever get around to reading the Journal article I posted last month?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 4/11/2006 12:29:28 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/10/2006 11:02:21 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/10/2006 9:21:44 PM

Author: Rhino

Just a note on the lighting.


LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis.

Rhino..Sorry, I disagree.. The 12 Leds represent a specific high angle environment and because they are limited in scope and angle of incidence, they can significantly alias any result. Might give you a pretty picture and a sales tool but hardly a way to judge the overall difference in cutting quality. Just as GIA''s single chromatic flare from above is not necessarily a measure of overall fire potential. Sorry, but that is the science.


Have you ordered your 1000 DiamondDork selling tools yet? The price should come down significantly as the warehouse fills up with unsold units and they have a fire sale.

Marty your crack is showing.
snide remarks are not educational and are counter productive.
It is getting old,,,,,
Your a smart guy so lets hear your design for a lightbox to do a ''look'' study with.

Ok so you guys disagree, fine. But slinging insults isn''t productive and sheds a bad light on what is trying to be accomplished here. No pun intended. Hehe. But seriously for those that want to learn, as I do this negative mud slinging is counter productive as Storm mentioned above.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/10/2006 11:23:41 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 4/10/2006 11:02:21 PM

Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/10/2006 9:21:44 PM

Author: Rhino

Just a note on the lighting.


LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis.

Rhino..Sorry, I disagree.. The 12 Leds represent a specific high angle environment and because they are limited in scope and angle of incidence, they can significantly alias any result. Might give you a pretty picture and a sales tool but hardly a way to judge the overall difference in cutting quality. Just as GIA''s single chromatic flare from above is not necessarily a measure of overall fire potential. Sorry, but that is the science.


Have you ordered your 1000 DiamondDork selling tools yet? The price should come down significantly as the warehouse fills up with unsold units and they have a fire sale.

LED Fire sale

Garry grow up some people are trying to learn around here this isn''t romper room.
It would be nice if for once we could talk about something around here without the 2 stooges routine!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/11/2006 12:43:29 AM
Author: kaleigh
Ok so you guys disagree, fine. But slinging insults isn''t productive and sheds a bad light on what is trying to be accomplished here. No pun intended. Hehe. But seriously for those that want to learn, as I do this negative mud slinging is counter productive as Storm mentioned above.

sorry Storm, its just 2 funny

 

[strmrdr]

I give up.....
good night.....
You just dont get it or dont give a rats fanny.....

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 4/11/2006 12:56:20 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 4/11/2006 12:43:29 AM
Author: kaleigh
Ok so you guys disagree, fine. But slinging insults isn't productive and sheds a bad light on what is trying to be accomplished here. No pun intended. Hehe. But seriously for those that want to learn, as I do this negative mud slinging is counter productive as Storm mentioned above.

sorry Storm, its just 2 funny

Garry, Obviously I said that to get your ATTENTION. Glad it worked.

Also making fun of me isn't cool.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/11/2006 12:29:28 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/10/2006 11:02:21 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 4/10/2006 9:21:44 PM

Author: Rhino

Just a note on the lighting.


LED''s do represent a light source that is common to spot lighting environments. When you view a diamond in spot lighting environments the views are similar and people find themselves in spot lighting environments on a fairly regular basis.

Rhino..Sorry, I disagree.. The 12 Leds represent a specific high angle environment and because they are limited in scope and angle of incidence, they can significantly alias any result. Might give you a pretty picture and a sales tool but hardly a way to judge the overall difference in cutting quality. Just as GIA''s single chromatic flare from above is not necessarily a measure of overall fire potential. Sorry, but that is the science.


Have you ordered your 1000 DiamondDork selling tools yet? The price should come down significantly as the warehouse fills up with unsold units and they have a fire sale.

Marty your crack is showing.
snide remarks are not educational and are counter productive.
It is getting old,,,,,
Your a smart guy so lets hear your design for a lightbox to do a ''look'' study with.

Storm: You have to keep a sense of humour about the DD.
First of all, if you want to show the effects of assymetry or poor cutting in dimaonds (or any stone) you don''t put it in a random assymetrical envirionment. You put it in a symmetrical envirionment..

Maybe something like what GIA used in their hemisphere studies or maybe something like Randy Wagner''s Brilliance Scope Viewer. I''ve seen that tool, and it seems to me a much better envirionment to evaluate general and relatibve cutting differences than the DD. Rockdoc has one of those and I''m trying to get one from Randy Wagner to play with.

Now using a limited set of LEDS will give you some visualization of fire, but you want to look at the TOTAL fire potential of the stone and the DD DEFINATELY does not show that. From what I can observe in the design it aliases the hell out of any resultant observation.

In my patent pending fire performance scope, you can take pictures of the fire or you can just look at the stone being illuminated with over 5000 point sources of light, where you don''t alias the results using a VERY LIMITED illumination envirionment (12 LEDS is VERY Limited compared to 5000 points). The prototype is being used by a client of mine in Kentucky. I''ve got some pics he took along with the SRN file data we are looking at, that I''ll probably post this weekend, as I am very busy right now.

To me, technically, the DD is a joke, nothing more, nothing less, a useless attempt at making money by GIA to try to support their screwed up cut grading system results.

 

[jasontb]

5000 light sources

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/11/2006 1:22:10 AM
Author: jasontb
5000 light sources

Yup, give or take a few..

I stand corrected !!!!, My patent prototype has actually over 400 square inches for point illumination with about 25 sources per sqaure inch, so it is really about 10,000 point white light sources from the girdle plane to the zenith.
I''ve been trying to model and understand the results but it is really computer intensive to do the job I want to do as I don''t have a reverse ray trace setup in my SAS2000 software. Only forewrd Montecarlo where I can also compute the chomatic flare model like GIA did. I previously published the comparison of my results with GIA''s published data, so it is generally accepted, I believe, that I know what I am doing regarding the methodology and arithmatic, although GIA would never admit it, because of the "not invented here syndrome".

I''ll leave the reverse ray race stuff to Sergey, and I''ll be getting together with him to discuss some of these issues at the AGS conclave later this month. To model what you can see and photograph is a real chore, might chew up more than an hour or so of computer time to raytrace a photoreal model, depending on the processor speed. But it doesn''t alias the results like 12 LEDS do....

 

[JohnQuixote]

1) Thanks to Rhino & Garry for the video content, and to Leonid for posting them together so we can hear contrasting viewpoints.

2) The feeling from the scientists is that DD is not a prime environment in which to separate out cut details. As a merchant Rhino sees its merits. Maybe I’m just a fan of peace in our time, but I don''t think these things are in conflict. Selling diamonds can be a different business than pure evaluation of cut quality. If DD functions as documented in the journal article it seems that it would lend itself to sales. After several threads these different views are just being reinforced.

 

[adamasgem]

Here is a AGS 3 cut (old AGS system). I would have posted the SRN files, but they have to be redone because they were so bad.

 

[adamasgem]

Here is a 4 cut (old AGS system)

 

[adamasgem]

Here is a 9 cut (old AGS system)

 

[adamasgem]

Here is a SRN web view of the cut.. The natutalrs are there but, from what I am told the stone does have meet point faceting.. The table facet seems to have a problem due to the scan that doesn''t exist.. Some recal or checking the 20K Sarin has to be done.... All the SRN files I recieved were that bad, showing lack of meet point faceting..

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 4/11/2006 12:05:15 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

2) The feeling from the scientists is that DD is not a prime environment in which to separate out cut details. As a merchant Rhino sees its merits. Maybe I’m just a fan of peace in our time, but I don''t think these things are in conflict. Selling diamonds can be a different business than pure evaluation of cut quality. If DD functions as documented in the journal article it seems that it would lend itself to sales. After several threads these different views are just being reinforced.

John, I''ll respectfully disagree with you, regarding there not being a conflict between "truth" and "marketing".

Just because some company pronounces something as Excellant (EX), doesn''t necessarily make it so. (Unless one uses a convenient redefinition of the word Excellant)

I guess the DD and new GIA EX paper are going to make a lot of merchants very happy $$$$$, giving them the "tools" to maximise profits at the expense of the consumer, but that is only my opinion.

 

[pricescope]

I went to DeBeers store on 5th Ave today. The diamonds on display shine like crazy - lots of fire and scintillation!

I looked up: in addition to traditional halogen spotlights, they have some sort of very small and bright LED type of light sources or perhaps fibre-optic outlets for the very bright lamp.

I never seen diamonds sparkling like this even in a jewelry shop.

 

[MissAva]

Date: 4/11/2006 4:10:05 PM
Author: Pricescope
I went to DeBeers store on 5th Ave today. The diamonds on display shine like crazy - lots of fire and scintillation!

I looked up: in addition to traditional halogen spotlights, they have some sort of very small and bright LED type of light sources or perhaps fibre-optic outlets for the very bright lamp.

I never seen diamonds sparkling like this even in a jewelry shop.

If I remember correctly I think there are also little lights within the cases...perhaps FFF or BG can help me out here.