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Did I get ripped off?!? Cushion Cut (2 pics)

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ConfusedDude

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
12
Hello all. I'm brand new to this forum and have not done sufficient research about this topic so don't yell if this is a repeat.

Basically, I just bought a stone for my beautiful lady and went in with a budget of around $6,000 for a ring since I'm a student and can afford nothing in life, haha.

After A LOT of research and going to A LOT of diamond sellers (I skipped the retail stores), I decided to spend 100% of my budget on the stone and will just end up putting it in a solitaire (which can easily be upgraded in a year or so).

My lady is the type of person who focuses more on quality rather than quality so size wasn't an issue. She just wants a good looking stone so I tried...

Specs:
1.2 ct Cushion Cut
Color - E (EGL USA certified - not GIA...is this a problem???)
Clarity - VS1
Depth - Not good - 73%
Table - Not good - 55%?
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Excellent
Fluorescence - None
Size - 6.07mm x 5.68 mm (1.07 ratio)
Price - $6,000 (with tax and setting will be ~$6,600)

So my issue, is that when I looked at the stone under loupes - it was crystal clear. Like stunning brilliance - no issues nothing. But when Iook at a picture of it in from that small room, it's picking up a lot of grays and blacks. Is that normal? or does that mean that I bought a poorly cut stone based on the bad depth and bad table and bad ratio? A comparable stone on BlueNile is around $9,000 - but again, I don't care as much about the specs. I just want to know that I didn't spec chase and actually got a good stone...

2012-12-04_11-40-39_386.jpg
This is a digital zoom-in of a cell phone picture from normal distance through the naked eye. I think the stone sparkles white well, but picks up so much gray on the edges...


2012-12-04_11-31-36_710.jpg
This a zoom-ed in view of a cell phone picture through loupes. You can see the clarity of the facets, but is that gray and picking up all the color around it normal? Or did I just get seriously ripped off...

:confused: :errrr: :confused: :errrr:

-ConfusedDude
 
Re: Did I get ripped off?!?

If you can still edit the title, add Cushion, to get the cushion people's attention.
 
I'm not an expert, but I can give you my input.

EGL grades more loosely than GIA or AGS. The vast majority of posters here will tell you to stick to GIA or AGS graded stones (unless you're buying an antique diamond). So your E/VS1 graded stone might be graded by GIA as G/SI1 (just an example, I have no idea what your actual stone would be graded as). Both E color and VS1 are kind of overkill, so I wouldn't worry a bunch about the color and clarity of your stone as long as the color looks good to your eye and you don't see glaring, visible inclusions.

Cushion cuts are a fancy cut. You can't judge them by numbers like you can judge a round brilliant cut diamond by numbers. There is no HCA tool for cushion cuts. You have to judge cushions by facet pattern and light performance.
 
Well as for GIA vs EGL I wouldnt worry. I would worry if it said SI2, H or something. Now Im not saying that they are graded the way GIA may have graded them, but what I am saying is that even if, lets say, its off my 3 grades in color and 2 in clarity. If you go to James allen and look up H colors between VS2 and SI1 at 1.2 ct, the cheapest one is 5200, and that isnt a stone i would want, and quite a lot of them are 6000+. My point is that even though you may have gotten a stone graded by a more lax grading scale, seems like the seller took that into account when selling it. So now its only a question of cut quality, like a PP said its not about the numbers exactly, as long as the light return is good, do you like how it looks to you visually? Are you ave to take it somewhere to get an ASET?

ETA, Even if its off by color and is really more around a G-H range, that is still considered colorless and a very nice color, and clarity may be off but as long as its eye clean and doesnt have any dangerous iclusions (which i would imagine they probably wouldnt have graded it a VS1 if that was the case) then you are find there as well. You want a stone that is eye clean, really.... higher clarity after that is just a bonus.
 
ConfusedDude|1355678229|3332747 said:
Specs:
1.2 ct Cushion Cut
Color - E (EGL USA certified - not GIA...is this a problem???)
Clarity - VS1
Depth - Not good - 73%
Table - Not good - 55%?
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Excellent
Fluorescence - None
Size - 6.07mm x 5.68 mm (1.07 ratio)
Price - $6,000 (with tax and setting will be ~$6,600)
Click to expand...

I don't think you got ripped off but the deal isn't probably not as hot as you think. EGL-USA is cheaper because the grading is less consistent than GIA. Your stone could be a E/VS1 but it also could be a H/SI1. From what I have seen, EGL is usually 1-2 color grades off and almost the same on clarity.

The diamond is deeper than I usually would consider. The deeper it is .. the smaller it will face up.
 
I am no expert, but looks to my eyes dark and not picking up light (seems you are blocking much of it with your cell), would be nice if you have a return policy just incase.
Here is a close option from GOG:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9318/
it gets close to the 6 mm your stone has, but look at the brightness and ASET.
I pulled that stone for comparison.

_2416.jpg

megascope__0.jpg
 
to know the price you click on reserve (you do not commit to buy by doing that , just to know the price), it is for 5,824.00 and has a life time policy
 
Cut is not very good.
 
do you have a return policy? If so people here would be happy to find you another one for your budget
 
Ok, so people on here are confirming my concerns. I'll go tomorrow and try to get a refund...I've only paid half and haven't had the ring made yet so it probably wont be a huge issue.

Please provide suggestions. Maybe not even just specific stones, but what to look for. EVERY JEWELER has told me different thing. One has insisted that the only thing to focus on is color. Another, clarity. Another, cut - regardless of color and clarity.

I don't know the technical term but I think that my PRIORITY is of course budget, but also brilliance. If I can get a stone slightly larger than 1 ct that would be ideal. But i want that thing to shine and sparkle in all light no matter what angle you look at it and what source of light is hitting it. That's brilliance right? And i dont want a cloudy diamond or one that has visible inclusions. I'm relatively picky and definitely pickier than her, but due to my profession, i pay a lot of attention to color/detail/flaws. Thats why i'm second guessing this stone because I think i was drawn in by the color, but i dont know if I got the right amount of brilliance for my budget.

Guidance will be much appreciated. I just wanna get something that'll make her happy.
 
EGL USA tends to be better so I also wouldn't worry about that. It looks like a good diamond and I'm sure if you put the diamond in front of a white light and in a better lit room it'd look a lot better. The lighting in whatever room the picture was taken of doesn't seem to be that good.

*What you really need to focus on is if you like it and if you think your girl will like it! It's SO different with cushions because everyone has a different preference on what cut they like. If this sparkles enough for you, then I say stick with it. It's NOT by any means an ugly stone!
 
Of the "4 C's" (cut, color, clarity, and carat size), cut should always be the most important priority.

A well cut diamond is going to appear whiter and bigger than a poorly cut diamond of the same size because it will reflect more light.

Clarity can sometimes affect light reflection, especially if you get a stone with a lot of cloud inclusions.

I would suggest going to the Good Old Gold website and poking around. Jon has a lot of good information over there and deals a lot with cushions. He also has a YouTube channel (name: diamondinfoman) that has a lot of really informative videos.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DiamondInfoMan/videos?query=cushion+cut

I would start out with this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O7H8E_MYRM
 
The stone is definitely too deep and appears smaller than it should. I would absolutely return it. It is good you came here before it was too late.

I love the Good Old Gold cushion already posted. It is nicely cut and still has high color and clarity. I am looking to see if I can see any others, but I will tell you, nicely cut cushions are not easy to find.
 
Even if all the ratings, pictures, tests (like Xray and ASET or whatever) look good, isn't it still a bit risky to buy a stone online without seeing it up close and personal?

I'm going back to the guy tomorrow and having him show me lower rated stones with a better cut, but I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable spending a few grand online for a stone I've never seen before. Maybe I'm too old school?

Any thoughts on what I should ask/look for tomorrow? I was under the impression that since cusion cuts are so variable, there is no such thing as a true "ideal cut". So what type of depth % range or table % range should i look for to indicate that it is a good cut?
 
ConfusedDude|1355697276|3332940 said:
Even if all the ratings, pictures, tests (like Xray and ASET or whatever) look good, isn't it still a bit risky to buy a stone online without seeing it up close and personal?

I'm going back to the guy tomorrow and having him show me lower rated stones with a better cut, but I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable spending a few grand online for a stone I've never seen before. Maybe I'm too old school?

Any thoughts on what I should ask/look for tomorrow? I was under the impression that since cusion cuts are so variable, there is no such thing as a true "ideal cut". So what type of depth % range or table % range should i look for to indicate that it is a good cut?
Click to expand...


You saw that one in person, and it isnt the quality you wanted, so no i dont think its risky to buy it online. Frankly i think its more risky to buy it in a local store that doesn't provide you with as much info
 
ConfusedDude|1355697276|3332940 said:
Even if all the ratings, pictures, tests (like Xray and ASET or whatever) look good, isn't it still a bit risky to buy a stone online without seeing it up close and personal?

I'm going back to the guy tomorrow and having him show me lower rated stones with a better cut, but I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable spending a few grand online for a stone I've never seen before. Maybe I'm too old school?

Any thoughts on what I should ask/look for tomorrow? I was under the impression that since cusion cuts are so variable, there is no such thing as a true "ideal cut". So what type of depth % range or table % range should i look for to indicate that it is a good cut?
Click to expand...

Yes! pretty much what you've said is true when armed with proper tools and knowledge.
If you have the ASET tool with you which is a very small cost that will help you in a multi thousand dollars purchase (you can order it and it comes with few different cut Zirconia's for training), then you go to the store and look the stone with the ASET and you will make an informed purchase.
You still can buy on the net (all my diamond purchases were on the net i never seen the stones except after they were set and sent to me) but then you buy the seller before the stone.
Reputable sellers on this forum are many, with a lot of help from PSers and you will never go wrong.
I wish you luck on your quest.
 
You can always return if you don't like it. Problem with buying in person is there is usually only a few cushions to choose from, of ranging quality.
 
So, complete change of direction. I went back today and decided against the stone. In fact, I think i've decided on a Round Brilliant. I didn't get to spend too much time looking this afternoon (i'm going back tonight) but there was one stone that caught my eye and my wallet.

1.2 ct RB
G, SI2 (GIA certified, not EGLUSA)
Excellent cut (apparently there is no such thing as IDEAL cut - that's a separate category created by different retailers and sellers)
Ex polish/ Ex symmetry
Depth - 61.2%, Table 59%
6.87mm x 6.83mm - so it looks big for the size b/c of the cut.

Same price - $6,000

Any thoughts on this one? I wasn't a huge fan of the clarity or color...but the brilliance was hard to ignore...

image_67.jpg
 
angles, please.
 
Good thing i took pics of the cert! I didn't even know angles were important!

33 is crown and 41.6 is pavillion so HCA is 4.6. According to that it's good but far from the best. So overall, still not great huh? but what about for the Price?
 
I wouldnt buy it with thta HCA score personally, now you were looking at both cushions AND rounds...does that mean you're open to any shape, or are those really the only two?
 
PIcture was not that great. Angles confirmed it.
 
Great info! keep the suggestions coming, if you dont mind =)

And actually, I've now pretty much purely transitioned to a RB. After looking at both cushions and RB, I feel the cushions themselves trap more light internally which almost give them an icy/internal glow quality, but the RB radiate more light externally to give a unique sparkle that almost no other cut can.

For the one that was suggested, for the same price do you think going with a 1.2 vs a 1.07 matters? G vs H? Si1 vs Si2? stupid specs...so complicated, haha.

More seriously, what about the fluoresence. Doesn't that kill a stone?
 
ConfusedDude|1355779718|3333668 said:
Great info! keep the suggestions coming, if you dont mind =)

And actually, I've now pretty much purely transitioned to a RB. After looking at both cushions and RB, I feel the cushions themselves trap more light internally which almost give them an icy/internal glow quality, but the RB radiate more light externally to give a unique sparkle that almost no other cut can.

For the one that was suggested, for the same price do you think going with a 1.2 vs a 1.07 matters? G vs H? Si1 vs Si2? stupid specs...so complicated, haha.

More seriously, what about the fluoresence. Doesn't that kill a stone?
Click to expand...

G vs H isnt going to be a problem, if I were you id probably go down to an I, still considered colorless and will get you the most bang for yout buck. Si1/2 is really up to you. if its eye clean and no dangerous inclusions then isnt that really all you want? 1.2 vs 1.07 IS noticeable, but a well cut stone will have a more visual impact than a poorly cut stone, so its about buying the best you can afford not just considering the size aspect.

and I love flour. and as long as a trusted vendor will tell you there isnt any ill effects, i would feel very comfortable buying one. Really if everything else was equal id rather have one with flour than without
 
For your budget and the size you want, I SI1 is where I would shoot for.
 
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