Did my fiance get ripped off?

[glp1011]

I am worried he may have gotten ripped off. He went to a reputable jeweler in town who is very well known. After picking the ring up, the jeweler mailed a typed letter with the specs of the ring so that we could have it insured. No GIA report? The specs are as follows:
Center Stone:
Round Brilliant
1.3 carat
VVS2
G Color

Setting totals 0.3 total carat weight with 28 diamonds that "match" (according to his letter) the color of the center stone.

To me the setting it self looks poorly made, and the diamonds look extremely dingy. The total price paid was $12,500 but the total price appraised is $14,500.

This price seems extremely high to me. What do you all think??

 

[proto]

it means you dropped 12.5k and have no idea what you purchased.

cant tell if you got ripped off or not

I am not GIA certified, but from the side profile of the diamond, I am seeing more colour than I would expect from a G.

did you keep a receipt?

 

[OECsareforLovers]

Hi OP,
I'll try to get you started while others who are more experienced chime in. It's really hard to tell if you got ripped off without a cert with specs (measurements, angle percentages, ect) from a reputable grading lab (GIA/AGS), or ASET images.

The price wouldn't be high if it were a superbly cut true G VVS2 (James Allen has a 1.2 G VVS2 H&A for 12,850), but from what you say it doesn't sound like a superbly cut diamond.

What are your options at this point? Can you return it (would you even want to)?

 

[kenny]

Can you return it?
Without a grading report from GIA or AGS those G VVS2 specs could in reality be anything!

You could place two diamonds side by side, one worth ten times the other, and they may look similar to you and I.
Color and clarity grades affect the value tremendously.
That's why getting graded independently and reliably is essential to establishing a value.

You can't judge clarity or color from pictures, especially on the Internet and viewed by a zillion different monitors.

 

[glp1011]

Since we didn't get a GIA Report or any other certified report, I don't have angle info. What should I do? I haven't even mentioned to him that I'm worried he may have been ripped off. He wen't in as a cash buyer and no knowledge of diamonds. That's what worries me so much. It has been 2 months exactly. I don't know if he kept a receipt, more than likely not. I have no idea what to do at this point. The setting itself is what bothers me the most. The center diamond itself is very pretty although it does tend to photograph looking like it has more color than it does. The setting though seems to be uneven, some diamonds seemed to be shoved in and look crooked. The inside of the band had deep gouges in it from where they must have had it mounted while working on it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Especially on how to approach him about this???

 

[kenny]

I'm sorry to say the facts of this story are stacked against you.
One option is to just fergetaboutit and chalk it up to experience.
Knowing what I know after reading Pricescope for 10 years and considering everything in your story, that's probably what I'd do if I were you.

IMO chances are you are in for a lot of heartache if you pursue this, and the outcome may be just living with it anyway.
Then again, some people just have to pursue justice, at any cost.
What you do now depends on what kind of a person you are.

Perhaps call the store anonymously and ask what their return policy is.
If you are within a full money-back period then bring this up with your guy.
If you are not, then let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[glp1011]

Here is another picture with better lighting...does this do the center stone more justice?

 

[glp1011]

I do want justice but I don't even know how to approach this. I don't want to hurt his feelings but I wish he had asked a friend for advice or help!

 

[glp1011]

Would it be crazy of me to ask for the certified report myself when I take the ring to have it cleaned?

 

[OECsareforLovers]

It's not crazy to ask for info when you get the ring cleaned, but are you sure the stone has been graded by GIA?

 

[glp1011]

No...that's what makes me want to ask. I wanted to know what their answer would be. I wish there was another jeweler in town that I could take it to and ask their opinion but this is the only jewelry store with an actual certified jeweler. The other stores send stuff off. Maybe I should just appreciate what I have. I just hate the thought of someone taking advantage of him. He really wanted something bigger and said he may replace it in a few years. I'm worried if he wants to sell this one at that time, that our lack of information may hurt us.

 

[kenny]

Perhaps pay an independent professional appraiser, (who does not buy or sell diamonds because that's a conflict or interest) to grade it.
Tell them you want color and clarity graded to GIA standards, rather a best-guess since it is in a setting.

Don't bother asking another jeweler or pawn shop.
They also have a conflict of interest.

Here is a list of appraisers, https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers

 

[MissGotRocks]

Do you love the ring? That is the 64 million dollar question. If you love it, don't worry about the money. If you don't love it, sit down and have a very frank conversation with him. Then you can both go to the jeweler and ask these questions. My guess is that if it were GIA certified, you or he would have the cert by now. It does look much more tinted from the picture than a G color stone but that could be the lighting and lots of other factors.

Here is a top of the line cut stone - one clarity grade down from what you supposedly have: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3143305.htm?source=pricescope

Gives you something to compare to (although not exact) in terms of color, cut and clarity.

 

[glp1011]

Thank you for the list of appraisers! And to answer the question of do I love the ring...he got exactly what I thought I wanted, but I think I am a little disappointed in the halo, stones in the band. I think I would have loved it had the stones been a bit bigger...perhaps with a scalloped edge. So, I love that he got exactly what I wanted! He can't help that my taste changed a little after seeing it on my hand! I would never hold that against him...or want to tell him.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Then maybe he wouldn't mind going back to look at more settings. It's something to wear for a long, long time so if changing it out a bit will make you really happy, it might be worth having a conversation with him. Be sure to let him know that he got you exactly what you wanted but after some thought, you might want something a bit different.

 

[glp1011]

Thank you for the advice...perhaps I should! And that's a great way of putting it! Considering I never actually tried on rings but rather picked out pictures I liked, maybe he won't be as upset that I didn't like it as much as I thought I would.

 

[Tourmaline]

I see no harm in casually asking the jewelry store if you can have the certificate, but it seems there isn't one. Your fiance probably thought he was saving money, and he might be really hurt if you bring it up. Perhaps you might live with it until upgrade time and then act shocked if and when you find out it's not worth what he paid. Remember to keep it clean (brush it often with a soft toothbrush and dishwashing soap), as that will help all the stones to sparkle to their best ability. If stones are set crookedly, you could just walk into the store and ask them to fix that for you.

 

[glp1011]

As much as I would like to think he was saving money...I honestly don't think he even knows that these certificates exist. When he proposed, I immediately asked him the next day if he already had it insured. He said not yet. I told him he would need to take the certificate to our insurance agent and have her do that. He didn't get a certificate, he had to call the jeweler the next day and have them send him one. Which turned out to be a typed letter signed by him.

 

[kenny]

Do you love the ring?
That is the 64 million dollar question.
If you love it, don't worry about the money.

I TOTALLY disagree.
I think that's horrible advice.

What if it is thousands of dollars overpriced because GIA would give it grades of K SI1 instead of the G VVS2 she was told by the seller?

Your harmful advice helps dishonest retailers rip off customers.
Please stop giving it.
It encourages ignorance instead of education, emotion instead of thinking.

That's fine for a psychic forum, but this is a diamond education forum.

 

[tyty333]

Do you love the ring?
That is the 64 million dollar question.
If you love it, don't worry about the money.

I TOTALLY disagree.
I think that's horrible advice.

What if it is thousands of dollars overpriced because GIA would give it grades of K SI1 instead of the G VVS2 she was told by the seller?

Your harmful advice helps dishonest retailers rip off customers.
Please stop giving it.
It encourages ignorance instead of education, emotion instead of thinking.

That's fine for a psychic forum.
This is a diamond education forum.

She has had it 2 months Kenny...what do you think the jeweler will do for her at this point? Just looking for ideas. To be honest (and
blunt), yes, I think your BF got ripped off but at this point I'm not sure what can be done about it. Maybe the jeweler will feel some
guilt and try to help you out with a GIA graded stone or a nicer setting?

 

[kenny]

Do you love the ring?
That is the 64 million dollar question.
If you love it, don't worry about the money.

I TOTALLY disagree.
I think that's horrible advice.

What if it is thousands of dollars overpriced because GIA would give it grades of K SI1 instead of the G VVS2 she was told by the seller?

Your harmful advice helps dishonest retailers rip off customers.
Please stop giving it.
It encourages ignorance instead of education, emotion instead of thinking.

That's fine for a psychic forum.
This is a diamond education forum.

She has had it 2 months Kenny...what do you think the jeweler will do for her at this point? Just looking for ideas. To be honest (and
blunt), yes, I think your BF got ripped off but at this point I'm not sure what can be done about it. Maybe the jeweler will feel some
guilt and try to help you out with a GIA graded stone or a nicer setting?

Scroll up.
I initially recommended just living with the ring.
To quote myself, "I'm sorry to say the facts of this story are stacked against you.
One option is to just fergetaboutit and chalk it up to experience.
Knowing what I know after reading Pricescope for 10 years and considering everything in your story, that's probably what I'd do if I were you."

I stand my my strong objection to that horrible advice, "All that matters is you love it."
Such manipulative garbage encouraging ignorance and just trusting your heart is what you'd expect to hear from a sleazy shyster in New York's diamond district ... "Oh don't trouble your pretty little head with all that thinking stuff."

 

[tyty333]

Ok, I see...you're against the wording.

I was thinking you thought something could be done at this point.

 

[RandG]

You could take the ring to GIA yourself. If it grades lower than what was sold, you have a potential civil case against the jeweler if he misrepresented the ring. You can also file a claim with the BBB. Neither of these will be easy or without stress. Most reliable jewelers would rather take it back and allow you to get what you want before allowing it to escalate. Either way, you shouldn't hesitate to talk to the store and see if you can work something out. You are going to live with this ring for a long time-- it needs to be right.

Now, let me share a bit of experience. My BF proposed to me on my birthday in Rome with a lovely modern cut cushion in a micro pave halo setting. It was a lovely ring, but it was not me to wear a modern cut stone. I struggled with what to do for months, finally telling him I didn't love it and wanted something different. Initially, he was supportive, but deep down, it broke him. He was so devastated and it hurt him that he felt like he failed me. Since then, he will not buy anything for me without me seeing it first. Occasionally, he will mention the ring that I didn't like... the wound is still there. I did eventually get what I want, but honestly, I now wish I hadn't said a thing. Most days I just wear a band anyway. Just my experience.

Good luck.

 

[kenny]

Ok, I see...you're against the wording. .

No, I'm not against just the wording.
I'm against the idea we should turn our brains off, stay ignorant, and just buy something we love even if we are actually being ripped off because we don't know any better and don't want to bother learning.

Horrid advice.

 

[glp1011]

Ok, so what I take from all this is, get it GIA appraised myself. If it appraised for lower, take action against the jeweler. If the appraisal is accurate, I will live with the setting (which exactly what I thought I wanted till I tried it on) until he upgrades in a few years. I can live with a setting. I cannot however, live with a thief who is supposed to be a trusted and highly recommended jeweler in this town. It's a 4 generation family business. If he is ripping people off (including the most wealthy in this small town) then he deserves to be busted.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Do you love the ring?
That is the 64 million dollar question.
If you love it, don't worry about the money.

I TOTALLY disagree.
I think that's horrible advice.

What if it is thousands of dollars overpriced because GIA would give it grades of K SI1 instead of the G VVS2 she was told by the seller?

Your harmful advice helps dishonest retailers rip off customers.
Please stop giving it.
It encourages ignorance instead of education, emotion instead of thinking.

That's fine for a psychic forum.
This is a diamond education forum.

She has had it 2 months Kenny...what do you think the jeweler will do for her at this point? Just looking for ideas. To be honest (and
blunt), yes, I think your BF got ripped off but at this point I'm not sure what can be done about it. Maybe the jeweler will feel some
guilt and try to help you out with a GIA graded stone or a nicer setting?

Scroll up.
I initially recommended just living with the ring.
To quote myself, "I'm sorry to say the facts of this story are stacked against you.
One option is to just fergetaboutit and chalk it up to experience.
Knowing what I know after reading Pricescope for 10 years and considering everything in your story, that's probably what I'd do if I were you."

I stand my my strong objection to that horrible advice, "All that matters is you love it."
Such manipulative garbage encouraging ignorance and just trusting your heart is what you'd expect to hear from a sleazy shyster in New York's diamond district ... "Oh don't trouble your pretty little head with all that thinking stuff."

Let me first say that I find your comments extremely offensive. I am well aware that this is not a psychic forum nor am I anywhere near a sleazy shyster in NY. Who do you think you are?

An engagement ring carries with it a lot of emotion. He bought her what he thought she wanted. He, like hundreds of others that have come here before him, was obviously an uneducated diamond buyer. He's not worried about it - she is. He spent the money on an engagement ring for his future intended. The money is not hers to worry about. However, she is concerned and sounds like not totally happy with the final product. As we've heard countless times before, some fellows are extremely offended when the ring is questioned or doesn't completely wow the lady. I advised her to have an honest discussion with him about her feelings and the possibility of looking at other options. It is important that she love her ring - she will probably wear it every day - but equally important to not totally trash his feelings either.

Money is not the beginning and end of every purchase made. Emotions run high when buying engagement rings - whether you agree with that or not. It just is and I think most people here understand this.

Don't ever think about speaking to me or about me in such a rude fashion again. I would not speak to you this way and it is not at all in keeping with the spirit of this forum. I am as entitled to give an opinion as any other member here - as long as it is done in a respectful, considerate way.

 

[nala]

Ok, so what I take from all this is, get it GIA appraised myself. If it appraised for lower, take action against the jeweler. If the appraisal is accurate, I will live with the setting (which exactly what I thought I wanted till I tried it on) until he upgrades in a few years. I can live with a setting. I cannot however, live with a thief who is supposed to be a trusted and highly recommended jeweler in this town. It's a 4 generation family business. If he is ripping people off (including the most wealthy in this small town) then he deserves to be busted.

I don't know if it will be as simple as that. I know that some jewelers will sell diamonds that are uncertified (meaning no certificate) and will make that clear to the buyer. They may then give the buyer some kind of indication as to color and clarity with the understanding that it is only a verbal appraisal but not a replacement for a GIA certificate.

My question is, was your fiance told that he was going to get a certificate from GIA? Or, did he agree to an uncertified stone? Also, is there a receipt that indicates what he bought? What does the receipt indicate? an ESTIMATE or an actual GIA Cert. DIAMOND? I only ask these questions because selling an uncertified diamond does not make your jeweler a thief; lying about it does. I think it would be slanderous to label him a thief if all he did was sell your fiance an uncertified stone.

I do think that you need to find out from your fiance exactly what the transaction was and what documents were involved.Please keep us posted.

 

[Rhea]

Do you love the ring?
That is the 64 million dollar question.
If you love it, don't worry about the money.

I TOTALLY disagree.
I think that's horrible advice.

What if it is thousands of dollars overpriced because GIA would give it grades of K SI1 instead of the G VVS2 she was told by the seller?

Your harmful advice helps dishonest retailers rip off customers.
Please stop giving it.
It encourages ignorance instead of education, emotion instead of thinking.

That's fine for a psychic forum, but this is a diamond education forum.

Whoa! Where did all this venom coming from? Just a couple of posts up you said

I'm sorry to say the facts of this story are stacked against you.
One option is to just fergetaboutit and chalk it up to experience.
Knowing what I know after reading Pricescope for 10 years and considering everything in your story, that's probably what I'd do if I were you.

IMO chances are you are in for a lot of heartache if you pursue this, and the outcome may be just living with it anyway.
Then again, some people just have to pursue justice, at any cost.

Different language, same thing at this point in the transaction. Both of you are encouraging the poster to move on because there's nothing that can be done about it at this point. Both of you acknowledge that digging will likely result in a lot of heartache. No one wants to discourage dishonesty, but there's little the OP can do 2 months later and without dragging her fiancée into this, blind-siding him. If she likes the ring and it's what she asked for her best option may be to just "fergetaboutit".

 

[Bonfire]

Kenny you make very valid points, no doubt. Engagement rings are tricky territory, because as much as you condone it being ignorant advice to not say anything, emotions do rule the day. Is it right to let this store possibly rip you off? No! Hurt feelings from the SO and what the ring represents, trickier. Personally I would be hugely pi**ed off to spent that kind of money and not get what I was told. Shamefull These are good examples of couples learning to talk to each other about important financial decisions, NOW.

 

[OECsareforLovers]

Ok, so what I take from all this is, get it GIA appraised myself. If it appraised for lower, take action against the jeweler. If the appraisal is accurate, I will live with the setting (which exactly what I thought I wanted till I tried it on) until he upgrades in a few years. I can live with a setting. I cannot however, live with a thief who is supposed to be a trusted and highly recommended jeweler in this town. It's a 4 generation family business. If he is ripping people off (including the most wealthy in this small town) then he deserves to be busted.

I don't know if it will be as simple as that. I know that some jewelers will sell diamonds that are uncertified (meaning no certificate) and will make that clear to the buyer. They may then give the buyer some kind of indication as to color and clarity with the understanding that it is only a verbal appraisal but not a replacement for a GIA certificate.

My question is, was your fiance told that he was going to get a certificate from GIA? Or, did he agree to an uncertified stone? Also, is there a receipt that indicates what he bought? What does the receipt indicate? an ESTIMATE or an actual GIA Cert. DIAMOND? I only ask these questions because selling an uncertified diamond does not make your jeweler a thief; lying about it does. I think it would be slanderous to label him a thief if all he did was sell your fiance an uncertified stone.

I do think that you need to find out from your fiance exactly what the transaction was and what documents were involved.Please keep us posted.

I'm with Nala on this one. Unless the jeweler said it was a GIA graded stone I'm not sure you can do much if you send it to GIA and get very different grades. With that said if an appraiser said the stone has wildly different grades (like SI1 K) I would personally take it up with the seller.

As a first step, take it to a local independent appraiser. Sending it to GIA will be more expensive and take FOREVER.