Did my fiance get ripped off?

[Dancing Fire]

As much as I would like to think he was saving money...I honestly don't think he even knows that these certificates exist. When he proposed, I immediately asked him the next day if he already had it insured. He said not yet. I told him he would need to take the certificate to our insurance agent and have her do that. He didn't get a certificate, he had to call the jeweler the next day and have them send him one. Which turned out to be a typed letter signed by him.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Ok, so what I take from all this is, get it GIA appraised myself. If it appraised for lower, take action against the jeweler. If the appraisal is accurate, I will live with the setting (which exactly what I thought I wanted till I tried it on) until he upgrades in a few years. I can live with a setting. I cannot however, live with a thief who is supposed to be a trusted and highly recommended jeweler in this town. It's a 4 generation family business. If he is ripping people off (including the most wealthy in this small town) then he deserves to be busted.

First things first. If it was supposed to be a GIA certed stone, then the jeweler needs to provide that cert. If it was just assumed that it was GIA certed, then your fiance might be out of luck. Without the cert, who came up with the specs of G color and VVS2? The jeweler? If that's the case, it's probably not accurate and really is a conflict of interest. He just comes up with a color/clarity grade based on his perception. Unfortunately, that's not worth much. However, you can't really know the facts without talking about it with your fiancé.

Secondly, is it the stone or the setting or both that troubles you? Upgrading the stone later on down the road would more than likely need to be with the same jeweler to get the full value of the stone toward a second one - assuming he does trade ins. Why would you want to upgrade again with someone that you already feel you distrust?

If you like the stone but are more opposed to the setting, I think the jeweler may work with you to change it out although it may cost more money.

In any event, you and your fiancé need to sit down and have a heart to heart talk about this ring. Then you can proceed to the jeweler to see where your next step might be. A certed stone? A complete refund? I don't know where this might lead you but I really don't think I'd put the time and effort into GIA certification at this point because it might not be a stone you want to keep. You could ask the jeweler to send it to GIA on his dime to see if their opinion matched his. If it does, then you can pay for the cert. If not, he can and refund your money. At least he would be selling a papered stone that could be priced accordingly. As it is now, you don't really know the value of the stone. That's where an appraiser would be helpful.

I don't know the terms of the sale of the stone and setting. I'm guessing you don't know it fully either. My best advice is to talk to your fiancé if the ring really troubles you that much. It might not be an easy subject to broach but good marriages are dependent upon communication so perhaps it's best to start here!

Best of luck to you - I know this is not an easy dilemma but these thing usually work out in the long run. We've seen these types of situations here many times before. It's always best to be armed with information and education regarding any product you buy beforehand but hindsight is 20/20. All is not lost - it will just taking some sorting out.

 

[arkieb1]

If you are deeply worried about the ring and want to do something about it the first step would be to take it to a trusted independent valuer/appraiser and find out what colour and clarity the stones actually are. It might well be that the centre diamond is O.K but the stones in the halo to cut corners are not a very high quality in which case you still might be able to go back (with the independent appraisal) confront the jeweller and get a different setting, because reading between the lines that is the part of the ring that you seem to dislike the most.

Irrespective of the different opinions on this forum only you know what you can live with and if it is worth your time pursuing it or not.

 

[Bonfire]

MissGotRocks is right, we must all "speak" to one another with kindness and respect. Everyone's opinions are valid and must be respected as such.

 

[nala]

I want to add that until you get all the facts of the transaction from your fiance, you need to keep your cool . I say this because you started to use a very angry tone (not judging) but something tells me that if the documents are not in your favor, the only recourse you have is that your jeweler is the only one in your small town, so he will probably be very accommodating IF you approach him nicely but firmly. IOW, give him a chance to rectify the situation first, no harsh tone or labels like thief. I think he realizes his reputation is at stake since everyone goes to him and if you show him your concerns and back these up with facts RESPECTFULLY, I think he will know it's in his best interest to have happy customers. If you don't get what you want, you can tell him that you will let all his future customers know how his diamonds are poor quality...etc...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Ok, so what I take from all this is, get it GIA appraised myself. If it appraised for lower, take action against the jeweler. If the appraisal is accurate, I will live with the setting (which exactly what I thought I wanted till I tried it on) until he upgrades in a few years. I can live with a setting. I cannot however, live with a thief who is supposed to be a trusted and highly recommended jeweler in this town. It's a 4 generation family business. If he is ripping people off (including the most wealthy in this small town) then he deserves to be busted.

Ask the jeweler if you can use the stone as "trade up credit" for a XXX GIA or a AGS 0 cut stone.

 

[newtodiam]

OP did you post pictures? theyre no longer visible

 

[MissGotRocks]

Other posts have been edited here as well.

An apology generally works better than an edit.

 

[Cricketcat]

I read through things very quickly. . . The first thing I would do is get a loupe, or even better go to another jewelry store in town, get the ring cleaned, and use their loupe and see what the stone looks like. With a VVS2 I don't think you should really be able to see anything through a loupe, and if you do see anything at all, then I would ask the jeweler at this other location about the inclusions you see and what kind of a clarity grade the stone could be. I would also call the store where the ring/diamond was originally purchased to just inquire generally about return/exchange/upgrading just to have that information before moving ahead. Good luck!

 

[MollyMalone]

Ok, so what I take from all this is, get it GIA appraised myself. If it appraised for lower, take action against the jeweler. If the appraisal is accurate, I will live with the setting (which exactly what I thought I wanted till I tried it on) until he upgrades in a few years. I can live with a setting. I cannot however, live with a thief who is supposed to be a trusted and highly recommended jeweler in this town. It's a 4 generation family business. If he is ripping people off (including the most wealthy in this small town) then he deserves to be busted.

FYI sending the ring to GIA is actually not an option (even if you didn't mind the long turn-around time); GIA does not assess mounted diamonds, only loose ones.
http://www.gia.edu/gem-lab-service/diamond-grading

I join in the recommendation to obtain an independent appraisal, for you two should have a more detailed report for insurance purposes than what the jeweler's letter apparently provides. The independent appraisal will give you information that you now lack. And for more information about appraisals and jewelry insurance in general (your household insurance agent may not offer the kind of insurance you should have), see this article that's posted on Pala International's web site; it was written a number of years ago, but the advice remains sound:
http://www.palagems.com/choosing_an_appraiser.htm

Like nala, I will encourage you to not jump the gun. It really is too bad that your fiance wasn't an informed purchaser, but his lack of knowledge doesn't necessarily mean that you have good reason to "take action", in the ominous sense it sounds like you're thinking of.

Let us know what the independent appraisal tells you (and what description is found in the purchase receipt)-- we'll keep our fingers crossed that the appraisal gives you greater peace of mind!

 

[MollyMalone]

P.S.

I haven't even mentioned to him that I'm worried he may have been ripped off.

Forgot to say in my preceding post that I think you are wise to not say anything at this point about how you fear that he got ripped off. We know that you want to champion him, but he may "hear" it as you think he was foolish/gullible.
Obtaining an independent appraisal does not send any possibly negative message; it's simply the next step people should take with a pricey ring they wish to insure even when the center diamond has a GIA or AGSL report. Because neither of those labs grade diamond jewelry nor do they offer any sort of monetary appraisal -- altho' many people are content to rely on the typically brief appraisal supplied by the jeweler from whom they purchased the ring (and then regret that decision, for the reasons explained in the Pala International article, should they ever have to submit a claim to their insurance company).

 

[OoohShiny]

I think there has been some great advice in the posts in this thread

I personally would say to your other half that you would like to send it to an accredited(?) independent assessor for insurance valuation purposes. Then, when it returns, if the assessment is way off what the jeweller has claimed it is, you could discuss it with your boyfriend - if it comes back that the stone / ring has been valued at a lot less, you could say "ok, let's try another appraiser to check" (perhaps DenverApprasier on here!). It would cost perhaps a few hundred dollars to send it appropriately insured and pay for the appraisal services, but when you then have two appraisals coming back with what I am presuming is worse stone specs / a lower value, you can say to your other half "oh, it looks like the first appraiser was correct - perhaps we should talk to the store?". If he has the idea that he wants to talk to the store, any negative feelings he may have will be directed towards the store owner, rather than him feeling bad because you like it less than you though you would

 

[needfullshinythings]

In my younger years I had a very similar experience, this is how it went down ( I gave the ring I thought she wanted ) all seemed to be going well until a couple of weeks later. 1 night we were sat watching telly and she dropped the " ive got something really important to tell you " bombshell on me !!! As you can imagine my head filled with the obvious man stuff of Affair/Pregnant/born a man etc etc. Much to my great relief it was none of those, imagine how pleased I was that of all the things that could have had a negative effect on my life had been eliminated. She then explained the reason for not being happy with the ring ( not my fault ) and we decided to go together to get it sorted out. Ultimately the wearer of the ring should have the greater input when choosing a lifetime ring, if I had my time again I would propose with a very nice but cheaper ring and then buy the sparkler later. We are quite simple creatures us men, as long as you are happy then we are happy. IMHO the more you hold it in the harder it will be to tell him. I know I have not mentioned the finance side of things or the aesthetic side either, ultimately this will come down to part of forming a meaningful relationship, TRUTH !!! All men have a list of " IVE GOT SOMETHING TO TELL YOU ITEMS " in their head, the ring certainly isn't one of them. I sincerely hope you can read this for the practical advice that it is, and I hope you get it sorted asap.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Excellent advice from a male perspective! I think that is very helpful to the poster!

 

[tyty333]

Born a man.....hahaha !

 

[little_birdie]

So the lesson here is, if you have something not-so-good to tell the SO, start the conversation with 'I have something important to tell you..' then let him think of the worst things first before putting his mind at ease. 'I dented your car today'

ETA to add: on a more serious note, the post is appreciated, it just also made me laugh is all!

 

[Rhea]

So the lesson here is, if you have something not-so-good to tell the SO, start the conversation with 'I have something important to tell you..' then let him think of the worst things first before putting his mind at ease. 'I dented your car today'

That's exactly how I read it! Lesson learned. Years ago I hated my engagement ring and talking about it caused some problems that I don't think have completely healed even after nearly a decade. Next time I'm going to start the conversation like this and hopefully head off some of that damage.

 

[needfullshinythings]

I'm not saying it will work on all men. In this modern metrosexual society we live in today, who knows how they will react !!! Maybe they don't think like us simpler older men, if a man is so shallow that he cant see the overall bigger picture regarding the whole situation then IMHO there would be greater issues than the ring itself. On the other hand, life together is full of compromises. Do you feel more comfortable telling or keeping quiet ? The original post says she is not happy with the ring so compromise is not an option, the ring was not cheap so money isn't the main issue either. I hope you can see where this is leading ? These were the exact same reasons my OH chose to do it that way. It worked on me, that's all

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I want to add that until you get all the facts of the transaction from your fiance, you need to keep your cool . I say this because you started to use a very angry tone (not judging) but something tells me that if the documents are not in your favor, the only recourse you have is that your jeweler is the only one in your small town, so he will probably be very accommodating IF you approach him nicely but firmly. IOW, give him a chance to rectify the situation first, no harsh tone or labels like thief. I think he realizes his reputation is at stake since everyone goes to him and if you show him your concerns and back these up with facts RESPECTFULLY, I think he will know it's in his best interest to have happy customers. If you don't get what you want, you can tell him that you will let all his future customers know how his diamonds are poor quality...etc...

There are alot of good pieces of advice in this thread. Above is some of the best. You can walk softly because you carry a big stick.
Consumers today are greatly empowered. First, a good jeweler understands the need to do right by customers. Second, if it turns out that the jeweler is behaving unethically, you have various forms of recourse available to you. As suggested BBB complaint, online reviews, etc. That leverage can often bring about accommodation. Gather the facts first. Then develop an action plan based upon what you really want to accomplish, and also with a mind to what collateral damage may not be worth enduring.

 

[thebigjdoe]

Man Here... I would not be offended, but all men are not created equal.

I have been through many necklace/watch/earring/purses purchases for my SO, and I can safely say that everything but the MK purses (which she had pre-pointed out as her fav) were exchanged for something else lol.

I'll say that I am anti-tradition, which is becoming more common but not everyone agrees, and don't buy into the whole "appreciate what you get" blah blah nonsense. Look, our goal is to get you something that you love. We try, we just aren't very good at it. My SO has very specific taste, and I know my odds of landing the perfect gift are pretty low.

I think it is fun though. I get her something that I like, and I think she may like, or even pointed out one day at the mall, but wasn't in love with. This allows us to go together and exchange it for something she really loves. Not only does she get exactly what she wants, but we get to make an adventure out of it, and I get to learn a little more about her taste.

For our engagement ring, WE have been shopping for months. We agreed that I'll pick the stone (hint: you guys are gonna help me hehe) and she will find the perfect setting. I want her to love it. I don't care that she picked it, or if she knows "the question" is coming. This whole tradition of an elaborate secret ring and proposal is bogus. Tradition is dying in the world and there is a reason. For the most part it is illogical.

She usually says something about how sweet I am for getting her what she wanted, picking it out, yada yada. This is usually followed by something about how she kinda liked it when she pointed it out, but not in love with it now. How sweet I am for remembering what she wanted yada yada but it's not her favorite. "Ok lets return it and go together and pick out exactly what you want."

Have you ever brought up other gifts he got you that you weren't in love with? Or do you say you love, wear a couple times, then into the closet it goes? Some people are really firm on the whole appreciate what you get idea, but us more on the logical side and further from the emotional side of ideas just want to nail it, even with your help And when her friends/family comment and ask where she got it, she says "he got for my birthday" or whatever it is.

We all win!

 

[TC1987]

Round Brilliant
1.3 carat
VVS2
G Color

There are many "Graduate Gemologist, G.I.A." people employed by jewelery stores. Back before the Internet, there were a lot of diamonds sold by local B&M stores to local people, and the diamonds were almost all uncerted but came with an appraisal from that Graduate Gemologist, G.I.A. of that particular store. So, I don't think that it would be too far out of the realm of possibility that the stone is actually 1.3ct (weighed on a scale), and a G color and VVS1 or 2 or very close to that. Even the labs themselves say that graders can differ one grade up or down. What's usually lacking in those uncerted stones is the cut grade information, and if it's an older stone that would only get a good or fair cut grade from GIA, that might be the reason that it has no lab report. I own some diamonds like that, I have no idea what grade GIA or AGS would give them, but they are attractive and not dogs.

The average CZ ring in any mall store is a D colorless. So, you (OP) could hold your diamond up against any cz ring and just eyeball how much color difference there is from the side. If it's a G or even an H, you should see some yellow in your diamond but it should not be glaringly obvious. If yours is J/K or perhaps even I, you'd see a pretty significant difference.

Presuming that you are reasonably happy with the center stone, it would be no problem to remount it into a higher-grade setting. Then put a colored gem or a sim stone into the original e-ring mounting and wear it as a right hand or special occasion ring, and the problem is solved. Gabriel, Beverly K are two affordable lines. David Klass in Los Angeles can do custom work but I don't know about his prices nowadays. A new setting can be strategically chosen to accent your center diamond, and also to, say, hide the profile view so that you can't really see the tint from the side.

Brian Gavin and Good Old Gold can have the diamond recut for you.