Difference between Brian Gavin diamond and Whiteflash.

[TreeScientist]

@the-mother-ring

Must have been a misunderstanding on both ends. I was not saying people were "trashing him", I was pointing out it was not likely a "feud" thing as earlier posts suggested, but rather a financial logistics thing. That was the assumptions I was referring to.

Of course, not accepting outside diamonds is most certainly a financial decision. Diamond vendors pay wholesale for their stones and sell at retail, which is anywhere from 25-75% higher than wholesale. They would be stupid to give a person retail on a trade-in from another company unless the sale contingent on the trade-in was a lot larger than the value of the trade in (like giving someone the full $1000 retail cost on a trade-in stone that is worth $600 wholesale if the sale contingent on the trade is a $50,000 diamond).

That's not the issue. It's making up some B.S. about another vendor's diamond not meeting their criteria (when it most certainly does) that most of us have a problem with. The proper response to "Will you accept this <insert other vendor's SuperIdeal brand> as a trade?" would be "Sorry, we typically do not accept outside stones." Full stop. Nothing more needs to be said.

Even if there is some sort of financial incentive to putting down another vendor's stones and it was not purely out of bad blood, I personally would not like to do business with a company that resorts to such lowbrow tactics to try and gain a sale.

 

[Obscura]

Funny you don't bold the "I think it's silly" and "however unlikely" parts of my statement.

Further more, no one said that it was "inferior" but that it did not fit BG "criteria" and only when pressed did a song and dance on why their brand is "better" (which every company everywhere diamonds or not will do.)

Is it a lame excuse to not take the stone? More than likely. Is the ACA stone less than a BG? Nope. Is it BG's perogative not to take it? Yes.

I doubt the response was dishonest rather than a sales rep's attempt at cushioning a denial to a customer as well as doing their job to promote the brand.

 

[TreeScientist]

Funny you don't bold the "I think it's silly" and "however unlikely" parts of my statement.

Further more, no one said that it was "inferior" but that it did not fit BG "criteria" and only when pressed did a song and dance on why their brand is "better" (which every company everywhere diamonds or not will do.)

Is it a lame excuse to not take the stone? More than likely. Is the ACA stone less than a BG? Nope. Is it BG's perogative not to take it? Yes.

I doubt the response was dishonest rather than a sales rep's attempt at cushioning a denial to a customer as well as doing their job to promote the brand.

If you see my response, I said that it did not meet "their criteria". But the sales rep returning an image with a bunch of tiny irregularities on the hearts image circled with arrows pointing them out is basically saying "This isn't cut to our standards" when many of their stones have even larger irregularities.

Yeah, I'm sure that it wasn't Brian himself who looked over the stone (even though the sales rep said he did), but as mentioned earlier, everyone who works at your company represents your brand. There's been plenty of reports of sub-par customer service from their reps and also these same sorts of lowbrow business tactics being used to talk up their stones. Perhaps if they wanted a better business reputation, they should rein in their sales reps.

All I'm saying is that you don't ever hear of WF sales reps directly putting down other vendor's stones. That's not their m.o. Whether or not it's an ethical business tactic is up to the individual to decide, but I know what sort of company I would rather deal with...

 

[Obscura]

@TreeScientist that wasn't a response to your post.

As for your response: I never said it was a good business practice. Every company has had a sub-par customer service rep or two. And as for putting down the stone? No one said it was an ugly stone, unfit for a super ideal label, or anything bad about the stone other than pointing out minute imperfections as an excuse not to accept it as trade in. All they said was that it didn't fit "their" criteria. Whatever that may entail i.e. likely a cop-out packaged in what the sales rep thought the easiest pill to swallow. And they do accept trade ins from other vendors... at their discretion. I bet they got screamed at a number of times of "what do you mean you don't want to take mine!?" before turning to the "it doesn't meet our criteria" line.

I came on this thread as someone kind of new to super ideals, wanting to get insight and learn from long time members and enthusiasts as I am starting to shop for my first big ticket diamond. I was interested to learn what separated the super ideals of each brand. Sadly, all I saw was a bunch of speculation and melodramatic stances.

 

[TreeScientist]

@Obscura I understand your point of view, but how is essentially inferring that someone's stone is inferior in any way "softening the blow" compared to simply saying that it's not in our company's policy to accept outside stones? Most people with a even a modicum of common sense will understand why a company would not want to accept a used item from another brand as a trade-in. It doesn't really need explaining. Do you take a used Tiffany ring to Cartier and tell them, "I want you to give me full retail value for this ring to use towards my purchase at your store." No. Of course not. And if anyone went to Cartier and asked them this question, they wouldn't need to give them an explanation beyond "We don't accept outside products for trades."

I'm really failing to see how putting down someone's diamond makes it an "easier pill to swallow."

Also, any customer who would scream at a sales rep for not accepting a used item from another store as a trade is a customer that, as a company, I would not want to deal with in the least.

I have not purchased from either of these brands, or any SuperIdeal brand for that matter (I prefer to find well-cut stones on the open market without the "SuperIdeal" premium) so there's no bias on my part. I'm simply pointing out lowbrow business tactics when I see it. This, plus several other instances of BG's questionable customer service that I've seen over the year and a half I've been active on here, have led me to conclude that WF and HPD generally handle situations with more class than BGD. That's my unbiased opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Obscura]

And I fail to see how they are calling the stone "inferior" or why trying to upsell their brand is shocking or something other than what every brand does. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I haven't heard of other BG issues, and you may be right with the sucky customer service. That's going to be bad for them as a business. Personally, I think WF jumping in and adding about their transparacy was another (obviously better) form of upselling their brand. For me, this instance seems like fussing over nothing.

On a positive note, this thread just helped me decide to buy from HPD.

 

[TreeScientist]

On a positive note, this thread just helped me decide to buy from HPD.

Congrats! That's a great decision. Their 80% buyback policy is the best in the business and, IMO, a great selling point for the company. Hopefully you'll never need it, but always good to know you can get 80% back for the stone. I'm sure you'll be happy with a CBI. All of the SuperIdeal brands are excellent from a cut perspective, so you really can't go wrong there. Don't let the nitpicking on here confuse you too much as a newbie. Any slight deviations between the brands are purely pedantic, i.e., you're never going to notice a difference in IRL performance.

 

[diamondnewbieny]

And I fail to see how they are calling the stone "inferior" or why trying to upsell their brand is shocking or something other than what every brand does. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I haven't heard of other BG issues, and you may be right with the sucky customer service. That's going to be bad for them as a business. Personally, I think WF jumping in and adding about their transparacy was another (obviously better) form of upselling their brand. For me, this instance seems like fussing over nothing.

On a positive note, this thread just helped me decide to buy from HPD.

I fell the same about WF jumping in , but they are simply stating what their brand do, but did not put down on another vendor.

Just some extra detail, my diamond is about $22k the diamond I looked at with BG is not a few dollars more, it’s $18k more. So I doubt that they won’t make any money.

I am not upset that they are not taking my diamond, which they can tell me from the beginning or just let me they won’t give me 100% of the diamond value is sufficient and I can decided from there.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Funny you don't bold the "I think it's silly" and "however unlikely" parts of my statement.

Further more, no one said that it was "inferior" but that it did not fit BG "criteria" and only when pressed did a song and dance on why their brand is "better" (which every company everywhere diamonds or not will do.)

Is it a lame excuse to not take the stone? More than likely. Is the ACA stone less than a BG? Nope. Is it BG's perogative not to take it? Yes.

I doubt the response was dishonest rather than a sales rep's attempt at cushioning a denial to a customer as well as doing their job to promote the brand.

Based on your reply to @TreeScientist I gather this was a reply to me (since I bolded part of your earlier post)? If so:

1) I bolded the part I was specifically responding to vs editing your post to only that part. I do that so as not to present your comments out of context.

2) As I noted earlier, the BGD rep did not use the word ‘inferior’, but it was clearly inferred in their beyond-necessary criticism & recut recommendation of OPs diamond. They didn’t just ‘talk up’ their brand; they trashed their competition (and former business partner/s). Again, as @TreeScientist noted - had BGD taken a more appropriate, generic & tactful approach from the get-go when presented the potential trade, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Diamonds are not only a financial transaction; they’re an emotional one.

Of course, BGD is free to talk up & promote their products however they see fit. As a potential customer, I’d fully expect them to tell me all the benefits of why their diamonds are simply & utterly stupendous. And to a degree, yes, it’s reasonable to demonstrate your value proposition in contrast with your competition, but there is a right and wrong way to do that. BGD chose the wrong way, and in the process they offended their customer as well as (IMO) disrespected WF and AGS - the same lab that grades their own diamonds. When I purchased my WF diamond (in my avatar pic), I owned another diamond I inquired about possibly trading in toward the purchase. I sent them them GIA report, they reviewed it, and they politely & respectfully advised that it was not something they were able to take in for trade (altogether different shape/cut). They didn’t trash-talk my diamond in the least, and - IIRC - they suggested an alternative I could contact if the funds were needed to purchase the WF diamond (they weren’t; I still have the other diamond).

@Texas Leaguer has done exactly the RIGHT thing here, IMO. He has every right to comment on this topic as his company’s product is not only part of the discussion, it was essentially discredited by a competitor. But he did not come on here and make negative comments about the competition; rather, he respectfully supported/lifted up ALL super-ideal vendors, and explained HIS company’s approach to accepting trade-ins without putting down another company’s product; I believe he even - in some regards - defended BGD as well, when outlining the challenges accepting other brands’ products. THAT is how you properly explain your value proposition in the marketplace, IMO, and that is why he/WF are so well-respected on this forum. BGD is free to come on here and do the same; I wish they would because it helps to have ALL sides of a situation laid out.

Lastly, I think it’s fantastic that you’ve chosen HPD for your diamond purchase; Wink (& his staff) are wonderful people, he’s a fair business man, and the diamonds they sell (CBI) are very much loved & admired by folks on here. HPD is also a very respected vendor on this forum for the aforementioned reasons; I cannot think of a single negative comment I’ve ever read about HPD or CBI diamonds on this forum. That said, if you’re removing WF from consideration simply because they addressed their business in this thread to clarify their stance on trade-ins (quite fairly & respectfully, IMO), then I think you’re doing yourself a huge disservice by limiting the already-small super-ideal inventory (comparatively to the broader diamond market) from which to choose. HPD’s diamonds are certainly fantastic, as are WF’s & BGD’s. Threads like these aren’t intended to steer potential customers away from any one vendor; rather, they help create transparency in the online marketplace about what others might expect or know to inquire about (along with trade-in/up policies, buy backs, etc.) when choosing to do business with a vendor, and are part of the overall big-picture you should consider when making such an important, expensive purchase.

 

[pinklemonadegurl]

Instead of focusing on your own exquisite line, why throw another vendor's name out there, and compare? I truly love my ACA, and will choose WF and HPD for all future purchases....

 

[Obscura]

@diamondnewbieny
It sucks they won't take it. But the no matter what reason they give won't take it. It is still a certified super ideal. No matter the lame excuse given to you.

If I were in the position I would contact WF and see if they can source/cut one that matches the diamond you want. That way you can get the (I misspoke earlier) maximum trade in value they allow for their own stones.

Have you looked at High Performance Diamonds? I don't know if they have a similar stone or accept other branded stones, but that may be another option.

 

[diamondnewbieny]

@diamondnewbieny
It sucks they won't take it. But the no matter what reason they give won't take it. It is still a certified super ideal. No matter the lame excuse given to you.

If I were in the position I would contact WF and see if they can source/cut one that matches the diamond you want. That way you can get the (I misspoke earlier) maximum trade in value they allow for their own stones.

Have you looked at High Performance Diamonds? I don't know if they have a similar stone or accept other branded stones, but that may be another option.

Yes I am interested with HPD as well, I just didn’t see that many options with larger stone and not sure if they will accept my ACA, just happened BG had a diamond that I was interested so I asked them first.

 

[diamondnewbieny]

Instead of focusing on your own exquisite line, why throw another vendor's name out there, and compare? I truly love my ACA, and will choose WF and HPD for all future purchases....

I was not comparing, I went with what was available to me at the time.

 

[cflutist]

Yes I am interested with HPD as well, I just didn’t see that many options with larger stone and not sure if they will accept my ACA, just happened BG had a diamond that I was interested so I asked them first.

You should give @Wink at HPD a call. I don't know the specifics on the percentage offered, but @hypermom posted that they took her diamond in trade.

 

[chamois]

You should give @Wink at HPD a call. I don't know the specifics on the percentage offered, but @hypermom posted that they took her diamond in trade.

HPD were willing and graciously took my diamond in trade too at the beginning of the year. I have traded again since then.

Nothing to loose by asking

 

[Wewechew]

Another one who has traded in an outside diamond to HPD! They are very accommodating with outside stones.

 

[cflutist]

Another one who has traded in an outside diamond to HPD! They are very accommodating with outside stones.

You mean all three of you did that? I didn't even know that you could do that, very cool.

 

[chamois]

You mean all three of you did that? I didn't even know that you could do that, very cool.

Yes, I traded my diamond (not purchased from a PS vendor) with HPD for a CBI, I have just recently traded up again with HPD for a much larger CBI.

I personally think that accepting trades makes good business sense, and is also excellent customer service.

 

[Wewechew]

That said, you will lose money on your stone trading into HPD. In this case, I would go back to WF to get your 100% trade in credit.

 

[TreeScientist]

That said, you will lose money on your stone trading into HPD. In this case, I would go back to WF to get your 100% trade in credit.

This. BGD also never said they wouldn't accept her trade, only that they wouldn't give her full value for it (making up some B.S. about it needing a recut). Same would go for HPD, sans the B.S. reasoning. You'll (almost) never get full value from another vendor for a trade in unless the price difference between the trade and new diamond is astronomical for reasons I explained in a prior post.

To me, the biggest benefit of buying from a SuperIdeal vendor is the 100% trade-in policy. So IMO, it would be silly (nice way of me saying stupid) to accept anything less that full value for your SuperIdeal from another vendor. That's just leaving thousands of perfectly good dollars on the table. Especially seeing as WF will do/has done custom cuts for customers desiring larger stones in a specific color/clarity.

 

[diamondnewbieny]

It’s years later… I ended up here because I am now shopping for Diamond again.

Anyway I want to update after my post about BG diamonds, my account from their website was removed for some reasons. (I had purchase history with them before, sometimes I like logging in the account and look at the images because I didn’t save them.) somehow it was removed, I meant completely wiped out. I thought I have my password wrong, but I reset password and it said no account found. Just very strange it happened after I made the post here….

So when I am shopping for Diamond again…without thinking too much I search their web site.( Forgot I have no access to my account anymore.) I tried logging in, again no account found. It could very well be system upgrade and all their customer’s account were deleted, but I just find it to be such a coincident that my account was deleted after I made this post.

This is something interesting to think about. Anyway I am moving on to other vendors. ：D

 

[MissGotRocks]

It’s years later… I ended up here because I am now shopping for Diamond again.

Anyway I want to update after my post about BG diamonds, my account from their website was removed for some reasons. (I had purchase history with them before, sometimes I like logging in the account and look at the images because I didn’t save them.) somehow it was removed, I meant completely wiped out. I thought I have my password wrong, but I reset password and it said no account found. Just very strange it happened after I made the post here….

So when I am shopping for Diamond again…without thinking too much I search their web site.( Forgot I have no access to my account anymore.) I tried logging in, again no account found. It could very well be system upgrade and all their customer’s account were deleted, but I just find it to be such a coincident that my account was deleted after I made this post.

This is something interesting to think about. Anyway I am moving on to other vendors. ：D

Welcome back! What are you looking for now? Trading in or buying new?

 

[diamondnewbieny]

Welcome back! What are you looking for now? Trading in or buying new?

Thank you! Probably trade in because I have no emotional attachment with with my current 3ct Diamond. The only one I have emotion attachment is my original engagement ring.

I do have the 6.5 radiant made into a 3 stone ring. So maybe I will look for a new setting as well.

 

[diamondnewbieny]

It’s years later… I ended up here because I am now shopping for Diamond again.

Anyway I want to update after my post about BG diamonds, my account from their website was removed for some reasons. (I had purchase history with them before, sometimes I like logging in the account and look at the images because I didn’t save them.) somehow it was removed, I meant completely wiped out. I thought I have my password wrong, but I reset password and it said no account found. Just very strange it happened after I made the post here….

So when I am shopping for Diamond again…without thinking too much I search their web site.( Forgot I have no access to my account anymore.) I tried logging in, again no account found. It could very well be system upgrade and all their customer’s account were deleted, but I just find it to be such a coincident that my account was deleted after I made this post.

This is something interesting to think about. Anyway I am moving on to other vendors. ：D

I got a call from BG staff who left me voice mail, and told me they did not remove my account. It was a system upgrade and they have glitch of removing accounts because of it.

Like I said before, it could very well be their system upgrade, but they want me to clarify this back on price scope. Which is understandable.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Thank you! Probably trade in because I have no emotional attachment with with my current 3ct Diamond. The only one I have emotion attachment is my original engagement ring.

I do have the 6.5 radiant made into a 3 stone ring. So maybe I will look for a new setting as well.

That is exciting! Do you know what you are looking for or just beginning the search?

 

[diamondnewbieny]

That is exciting! Do you know what you are looking for or just beginning the search?

Just starting my search. It might take a while to make up my mind. The 3ct round from WF is kinda perfect for everyday wear, but I am getting bored with it. My other 6.5ct radiant 3 stone is too much for everyday in my opinion.

I actually had David Klass sourced the side stones and made the ring for me. Love it. I am attaching few images. Just want to share.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Just starting my search. It might take a while to make up my mind. The 3ct round from WF is kinda perfect for everyday wear, but I am getting bored with it. My other 6.5ct radiant 3 stone is too much for everyday in my opinion.

I actually had David Klass sourced the side stones and made the ring for me. Love it. I am attaching few images. Just want to share.

Both rings are beautiful! Can’t wait to see what else you have in mind!