discouraged

[purselover]

Date: 1/18/2009 8:21:38 PM
Author:mariewest
First off, according to the LIW list I am going to get kicked of in Feb. I thought the rule was if I hadn''t posted in three months? I have posted this month, just not that often, but I''ve posted. Either way, I thought I would give a little update on what''s going on.


Since I''m not a common poster I''ll review:


My SO and I have been dating for two years. A year ago he had stated that he would propose within 2008. He was asking me lots of ring questions last June and kept saying thing like ''it''s going to be sooner than you think.'' I''m not sure what changed other than his financial situation, but in August he said that it was going to be ''a little later than he hoped, and hoped that I would hang in there.'' He said that maybe in six months he would propose (making in Feb.)


Well last month I asked again about the timeline, to see if we were on the same page still and he then said that it may be in a year or so! Well, that''s a big different; three months to a year (or more.) His excuse is that he just can''t afford it. Well, I have shown him some rings that I liked that are affordable. He tells me he wants me to stop talking about it because he has some things going on that needs more priority (he''s applying to grad schools.) I am very supportive of him and he''s efforts.


The biggest thing is that he''s grad school that he really wants to go to is on the other side of the country. We have discussed this in depth and I have told him that I would move out there with him, which would mean leaving my job and looking for another one. I have told him from the start that I would really like to be engaged before making that move. He says that he would like to be financially stable before proposing. I understand that, but it may take a lot longer than we want. I don''t want to be the live-in girlfriend for a long time (we don''t currently live together) because I feel that I would be acting like a wife and he''ll have no real reason to propose after a while.


We have a trip planned in less than 2 months and it would ideal for him to propose there. I don''t have my hopes up, but I''m getting discouraged with his lack of wanting to push it forward. He''s one of those guys that if he wants to get something done, then he''ll do it. I''m not sure if there is any other reason why (besides money, which is says there isn''t) or what, but I''m just sad that he''s not making it more of a priority when I''m willing to make him a priority of mine.


I''m still hanging in there though, I''m not ready to cut the relationship because of it quite yet, but at some point it may not be worth it anymore.

I just had to come back to this....you mentioned you don''t want to be a live-in girlfriend b/c then he''ll have no incentive to propose...are people really like this?? I really don''t mean this to be rude so I hope it sounds okay, but why would you want to be with someone with that attitude? I can''t imagine having a SO who got so "comfortable" with living together that he would no longer want to get married. If you really think that would happen that''s a problem, and then is he really proposing b/c he wants to marry you or b/c he just wants to live with you? I mean there are plenty of good reasons to still get married after living together, like practical insurance and tax reasons, and then there''s also the symbolism of the ceremony and the celebration with family.

 

[forensics1]

Speaking from someone who is turning 30 in 3 months, yes, there would be a big difference if you were 32. I am a different person, with different views and goals than 22 year old I once was. And, I wasn''t patronizing anyone saying I know more than they do because I''ve been in a relationship longer than the OP. All I was trying to do was offer up some advice. I got engaged for the first time when I was 22. By the time my wedding date came about (almost 2 years later) I had completely changed as a person, as did my x-FI. Money was tight, we had changed as people due to the fact that being only 22 we were still growing into who we were as adults, as our own persons. Those few things caused A LOT of rifts between us...hence the breaking of the engagement. I do think money is a very large part in any relationship as does growing into who you are. It can make or break it and that pressure on a person in their early 20''s is tough. Maybe your FF wants to make sure that money doesn''t come in between you two.

Your FF may not be ready because he wants to provide financially for you and wants you to be happy. I think Italianhaircolor was trying to convey it''s a whole different world when providing for you as your boyfriend as opposed to your husband; it''s FAR MORE SERIOUS...as someone else said, forever is a long time. You said it yourself: He says that he would like to be financially stable before proposing. I understand that, but it may take a lot longer than we want. Then let it.

I''m not going to get into a giant heated debate here, I was simply trying to offer up some REAL LIFE advice. I''m sorry if what I wrote was so offensive, but it''s the truth. Pressure on a person who is trying to apply and get into grad school, buy a ring, propose, and move across the country is a lot of pressure from a lot of different angles. There is a lot of life to be lived and both of you have goals and dreams. I think that should be a focus.

Good Luck.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

nah marie you won''t get kicked off...we just like to hear from everyone at least once a month or so.

I would perhaps wait and see if the trip brings anything to light for you and see if he is just trying to throw you off...

But...your an LIW...so we Totally understand!!

 

[whitby_2773]

hi marie

it''s good to hear from you - thank you for posting.

i''m sorry you''re feeling discouraged

it sounds as though you have a lot of pro''s and con''s to weigh up in making a decision regarding how to proceed, should your BF get admitted to the university he''s looking into on the other side of the country. time lines are incredibly tough; you can guess, you can try to predict, you can hope - but in the end nobody knows, and i think it''s the uncertainty which gets a lot of LIW''s down. nobody likes to feel that their future is in somebody else''s hands - especially somebody who *may* not be acting as keen as they were a year ago.

so here''s the thing...

you''re not wedded to each other yet, and he is definitely still making the decisions which are in HIS best interests. he HASN''T, as yet, put HIS future in somebody else''s hands. and given that you''re not married (ie bonded for life), that''s his right. but it''s also YOUR right. given that he''s making decisions based on what suits him most, you need to do the same. in marriage, i always say that both parties have to be prepared to meet each other ALL the way. you often have to be prepared to cross the floor, give up what you want, and go all the way to what the other person wants, putting aside what YOU want. however! - in dating, it needs to be kept in balance. if he is still acting independently of you, making decisions alone for his future, then you need to be doing the same. the sorts of things you;re discussing - wedding dates, grad schools, crossing the country, and so on are BIG decisions. this isn''t just a case of giving in over which movie you''ll see. these are things which will intimately affect your future. so make the decisions on the basis of what will work for your life. that''s what he''s doing, and you would be wise to maintain the balance between the two of you at the moment. getting out of step now could lead to big problems in the future - mainly of the ''you getting screwed'' variety, so i''d encourage you to maintain as much independence as he is - no more and no less.

and good luck! you sound as tho you''ve been trying to fit in with his goals and time line. but there''s nothing wrong with having your own, and i''d encourage you to work out YOUR timeline, and then keep it in tact.

let us know how this proceeds please?

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 1/20/2009 12:13:00 AM
Author: whitby_2773


in marriage, i always say that both parties have to be prepared to meet each other ALL the way. you often have to be prepared to cross the floor, give up what you want, and go all the way to what the other person wants, putting aside what YOU want. however! - in dating, it needs to be kept in balance. if he is still acting independently of you, making decisions alone for his future, then you need to be doing the same. the sorts of things you;re discussing - wedding dates, grad schools, crossing the country, and so on are BIG decisions. this isn''t just a case of giving in over which movie you''ll see. these are things which will intimately affect your future. so make the decisions on the basis of what will work for your life. that''s what he''s doing, and you would be wise to maintain the balance between the two of you at the moment. getting out of step now could lead to big problems in the future - mainly of the ''you getting screwed'' variety, so i''d encourage you to maintain as much independence as he is - no more and no less.

let us know how this proceeds please?

Excellent post, Whitby. I wish I''d received these kinds of peptalks when I was a young single girl (with boyfriend)!!!!!!!! I should print this out and give it to my girl when she''s 18.

 

[bobbin]

Date: 1/18/2009 9:42:05 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor


Sure, it wasn''t what you wanted to hear but, is anything other than ''lets go ring shopping, honey'' what any LIW really wants to hear?

I don''t want to start a huge argument here Italia, but this is the second time recently that you have made a statement that stereotypes all LIW in an offensive way- I cannot find the other post right now, but it was something to do with all LIW simply wanting the ring and not thinking through what marriage is about.

I for one, when I post about my concerns or little LIW freakouts, am posting so people can help me see the other side of the story, but also so that I can receive some support. I am not expecting or wanting to hear anything along those lines, and when I talk to SO about engagement, it isn''t what I am expecting or wanting to hear either (I just want honest communication with him). I rarely, if ever, see a post from a LIW that comes across as her wanting the ring more than the marriage, or wanting to force her SO into getting engaged.

LIW for most of us is a place that we can express our feelings about this subject in a safe environment without being judged like we would by our friends and family in the real world. I am not saying that you shouldn''t offer advice in an honest manner, but please try to respect our need to have this environment to vent in by keeping the stereotypical remarks and judging behaviour out of your posts.

Sorry for the threadjack mariewest.

 

[LadyluvsLuxury]

whitby ANOTHER great post by you! (I was looking for a smiley with a thumbs up but there isn''t one!

)

Anyway, mariewest what you''ll find on ANY internet forum is that you will be given advice from individuals based on what he/she has experienced in his/her own life. So the people who married relatively young and are still married at 25+ years will say one thing, the people who married for the first time in their thirties will say another, those that had been married more than once will say another, etc. etc. So PLEASE do not take offense to anything someone says to you. Yes, I agree sometimes things could be said with more tact but I find often behind the anonymity of a computer people lose it. At the end of the day there is absolutely NO study that says if you follow x, y, z your marriage will last forever and you will be happy so at the end of the day all we can do is take the risk and trust our heads and hearts that we are making the best decision FOR US not for any one else.

IMO, I would first say to you that you certainly have to applaud your SO for having his priorities straight (i.e. pursuing his education). From what I gather he, like MANY men, want to know that he is in a place to support a family. If he is in grad school will he be working? Will you be working to support the both of you? There might be issues for him there. You have to keep in mind that while you may know your marriage won''t be until ''X'' year, and you won''t want kids until ''X'' time; many men feel that once they are engaged their FI will pressure them into marriage ASAP and then next will come the baby and then all their dreams of football, Xbox, and bars will be shot to hell (I''m being tongue in cheek). What I am really saying is that your idea of ''what''s next'' and his idea of ''what''s next'' is probably very different. This is where open communication comes into play. You have to really figure out what is going on in his head. The flip side is...if he knows that you won''t move with him unless you are engaged and he is insisting he does not want to be engaged then he is silently telling you something...and you need to consider that as well.

No one can tell you whether or not you should make that move. We do not know your financial situation, what industry you work in (i.e. can you easily find a job if you relocate?) but I would advise you to think of yourself in this situation as well. If he is not ready to make the commitment to you that you want then do not disadvantage yourself by moving away from your friends/family for a lower paying job or a dead-end job for the sake of your SO. You need to weigh the pros/cons and BE A LITTLE SELFISH, he obviously is!

 

[tlh]

Date: 1/18/2009 10:40:43 PM
Author: mariewest
forensics1:
Would it have made a difference if I was 32? Two years is a decent amount of time to be dating, so I think you''re being rude. Don''t compare your SO with mine because you obviously don''t know all the details of our relationship from that one post.

For you and Italiahaircolor, tell me how it differs between ''what they can provide for you (regardless of your stature and earnings) as your husband'' differs from boyfriend? Especially if we do end up moving in together.

I''m also not trying to pressured him into marrying me, and we wouldn''t get married right away, not until we''re probably 25 (fall of 2011.) I''m sorry, is that too young for you too?

I am a little offended by being called ''neurotic.'' I know you are trying to be honest and realistic, but don''t belittle me because of my age and my situation. If I wanted to hear that I would be chatting on ''The Knot.'' I''m not going to enter into something being so native about it.

Oh, sweetie, HUGS! I understand you are lashing out, because you are feeling hurt, but I dont think they meant that in a bad way. And Yes, it would make a difference if you were 32. I am gonna say something, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don''t be offended, I know you opened your heart up here, and it feels like people are being nasty to you... but I dont think they are meaning to be wearin'' the meanie pants! THey just want to give you a little perspective. I know your pain. TRUST ME!!! I waited for 2+ years while my now hubby tried to get his finances together. (Yes, I am married now, happily... so waiting is worthwhile! and yes, I moved across the country to be w/ him SANS ring. Was it stressful, heck yes, did I say, where''s my ring every day for MONTHS, YOU BETCHA, but it was worth it. We lived together and I could see from living with him, what it would be like being married... I looked at it as a test run. One I could painfully leave w/o the mess of paperwork. But it worked out and we are married! YAY!)
Yes, the older you get... the more you feel like you aren''t a spring chicken anymore. Women are valued for their looks and beauty, and have been so since the dawn of time. As you get older, unless you are DEMI MOORE WHO IS GORGEOUS MIND YOU, beauty can fade, and men can find you less desirable... because men in their 30''s now don''t want their equals, they want young, sexy doe-eyed females who adore them. I know this doesn''t apply to all men, but some women as they get older, DO feel insecure about their age, and their prospects.
What they meant, is that you are young, you have your whole life ahead of you. Yes two years is long enough to know if your relationship is headed in the right direction... but you are also young enough to really enjoy the ride. I am not saying that this makes what you are feeling have any less value or signifigance than if you are older... I just think, women, smile- and think... ah the joys of youth. You have that. Seriously, you are young, and beautiful, and you are with a man that loves you.
Think back... problems of yesterday don''t seem nearly as important today. I am not trying to trvialize what you are going through, because it was sooo painful when I went through that... not once but TWICE.
I think what some ladies are saying, is step back. Breathe. It will happen, but all that frettin is NOT good for you. One of my best friends (now DH) was applying to law schools. They were dating, and he was accepted to a law school across the country. She told him, I will not move in w/ you without a ring on my finger. She held firm, and when it came time for him to go, he would not go without her. (And yes, she was olnly 22 at the time also.) He didn''t want her to have a crummy little ring (this was in his words a matter of pride, since the size of the ring was in HIS eyes, a symbol of HIS VALUE of HIS WORTH, and he couldn''t have that, she would have settled for a ring from the nickel machine at walmart, because it was the symbol, not the actual ring that mattered to her... but it mattered to HIM.)... so what did he do? HE got a bigger stu loan and bought her a ring with it. They have been happily married now for over 10 years.

The weird part is men don''t necessarily have that timeline, we women have. It is ingrained in you as a child, go to college 18, meet sweet heart in college, marry sweet heart 23. Get house 25, have kids 27. Etc. Men, just don''t have that. And I think that the women''s timeline is tied in very closely with societal expectations - and the ticking bio clock.

The waiting is agonizing... and I know you feel like your life is on hold, because in essence you have to leave everything to move for him. I ditto the poster that spoke of friends that have done this and have been heartbroken.... BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. I do think if you are going to do this... you need a little security like pending nuptuals to do so.

But what do I know, I took that leap, and it paid off. So sweetie, it is with the utmost love that I say, take a deep breath, it will all work out just fine. It sucks a dickens right now... but it will work out alright. Just think about what is important to you... close your eyes, and leap into whatever direction YOU CHOOSE. HUGS!!!!!

 

[sba771]

I agree with many of the posters who say you have to do what is right for you. My FI asked me to move to another country and, for me, I need the commitment that we would be getting married. That is me and I know not everyone feels that way. If it is so important to you though and he refuses to do it, don''t move with him. TRUST ME. I was engaged and for the first few months of being here (especially when finding a job was hard) I had so much anger and resentment towards him and I got what I had asked for. If you end up moving only on his terms the anger and hard feelings, especially when things are not easy, will only grow and no one will be happy. If he doesn''t want to propse maybe you should try doing long distance for a while- giving up your life for someone else is really hard and it should be a compromise

 

[blondebunny]

Date: 1/18/2009 9:38:03 PM
Author: decodelighted
I dunno. I think you should stand firm on your ''won''t move without being engaged'' terms. That was the original plan ... up until he changed it. If he''d proposed by Feb then you''d be engaged before he went away to school, right? Well he''s not the only one calling the shots. I think its reasonable to want a high level of commitment before a) quitting your job b) leaving your home c) moving across the country d) staring a whole new life with new friends new everything *temporarily* until he finishes school.


If he goes w/o you it doesn''t necessarily mean you''re breaking up. Maybe he needs time to miss you? Or maybe you''d both decide you''re not ready for that next step.


Good luck whatever you decide. Just don''t sell yourself short or try too hard to be the ''perfect girlfriend''. A guy who loves you the way a husband will love his wife should respect your wishes too. If he doesn''t, there''s your answer.

i totally ditto this..I know alot of girls who were in the same predicament, and well they still dont have rings and they moved with their guy...

If he waits till he is financially stable, he could be waiting the rest of his life..

Since you have a job, have you thought about maybe helping him out with the ring? I dont see anything wrong with helping out with the ring, I helped my FI out some... granted not alot... but he was thankful that I did so he could get me the ring that we both wanted

 

[KatM]

if he says that it''ll be within the next year, would you be ok just staying where you are and doing long distance? it totally sucks at first, but you get into a routine and it''s not the worst thing ever. i think you''re perfectly right to say that you don''t want to move before you''re engaged. the problem is that you can''t make him propose, you can only control your end of things. if you don''t want to move before a proposal, then don''t! he should do what is right for him and his own life goals (especially for education), and your responsibility is towards yourself. Do what''s right for you.

 

[supergirl10]

Hi Marie

I think everyone has been a little harsh on you as well. I know i''ve posted somethings here before and got a very harsh response (well harsher than it should have been).

I am around your age and have been with my (now FI) for just over four years and had been living together for two when we were having a dilema about enagements also. Admittedly i did not come down to moving across country but I can totally see your perspective.

I am the only one of my friends who is anywhere near marrige and I will offer you the same advice as I offered them. I would not move in or away without the commitment. Uprooting your whole life and moving away from you family is a huge deal and granted two years of dating is a reasonable amount of time to know where your life is going and what kind of future you have together.

I HAD always said that I would never ever move in unless I was either engaged or married. He asked me to move in at 2.5 years onto the relationship (engagement discussions had been quite serious from approximately 6 months before) and I figured well we are reallly close to getting engaged so what does it really matter, it will be six months or so max (from my understanding of our mutally discussed timeline) so I said yes. It took him nearly 2 years from that point and it nearly ruined our relationship. Because by my perspective he had broken his promise of getting engaged shorty after we moved in together.

I use to always think if I had not given in and stuck to my bottom line I would not be in this prediciment! But I guess in the end I''m glad that my patience paid off and we have been happily engaged for 6 months. So i guess that is something to consider as well. Will you do long distance, break up or are you happy to move with no solid promise of comittment but a promise that it will come soon. I''m not sure but I think I would stick to my guns.
This may sound evil or childish but if I would have, I have a feeling that I would have gotten the commitment I desired waaay sooner. Also I would consider the implication of renegging on your bottom line.