Do you drink the PS "ideal cut" Kool-Aid or ...

[SandyinAnaheim]

Yes, I do drink the PS kook-aid.

Now THAT'S funny! KooK-Ade.

If drinking the Kook-Ade means being informed and relying on the experience of those who know more than myself, than I suppose I do. Thank GOD I stumbled upon this place before my fiancé and I blew our wad!! if not, we would have been taken for a ride by the first bunch to go by.

 

[Safflower]

This is a very interesting thread, thank you! Do I drink the kool-aid? Maybe.

I started my diamond search last summer. I saw people in person with lifeless, cloudy RBs, so I wanted to educate myself when it came time for me.

Essentially, all I wanted was a RB stone, most sparkle, a visually impressive stone, for the right price.

I started out on blue nile, they have very good and helpful basic diamond education. Then I found whiteflash, then I found Pricescope and BGD. I watched and still watch GOG videos on YouTube (so helpful) I went to Shane Co and when I asked about hearts and arrows, they said "an ideal cut diamond is an ideal cut diamond"..but I was not satisfied with this. I compared a few diamonds at Kay, the Leo diamond looked good in the store, but I would love to compare it to an ACA. their Towlkowsky ("the most expensive we have") was overpriced.

I wish that I have seen enough diamonds in person, out of jewlery store lighting, to explore different facet angles and my personal preferences. I feel that it's easier to research online, and go off what others say here on Pricescope for advice.

The avenue for the 'best' stone for me was to go WF ACA, but maybe some day I will be brave enough to go blue nile. GOG "August vintage" is very beautiful to me.

This is what I got:

.88ct ACA H VS2

Depth%: 61.8
Table%: 56.6
Crown angle: 34.8
Crown%: 15.1
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Lower girdle%: 77
Thin to slightly thick

6.10x6.17x3.79mm

I don't have it yet but I hope I love it!

Sorry long post

 

[Dreamer_D]

Maybe I am not understanding the term "kool aid" properly Some seem to think that drinking it means you only buy H&A branded MRBs. I certainly don't ascribe to that very narrow definition of "cut is king". I really like branded stones because they are so easy to pick when you are not familiar with all the ins and outs of diamond cut. And if I were buying a large engagement ring, I also would buy a branded H&A because I like the idea of the perfection. But, I also think that you can find well-cut diamonds that are not branded H&As. And I would happily buy them. The Kool Aid I drink is generic

...

I do not buy into that any one particular branded cut is the best of the best and feel each stone must be evaluated on its own merits.

Ditto!

CUT IS KING!!!

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I'm not sure what the kool aid definition exactly is, but here are my priorities, in order, when shopping for colorless diamonds.

Cut -most important, ideal cut
Carat - I guess I'm a bit of a size queen
Color - I find beauty in all colors. D-Z no problem.
Clarity - As long as it's eye clean I'm ok. Typically I stay SI2 or better, but will consider a very clean I1

Now if it's for a gift, some of these priorities change. Color and clarity might move up and carat moves down.

 

[woofmama]

I have drunk the Kool-Aid and I liked it I found PS when looking for an EC. Researched and lurked quietly for months. Found one I liked on JA, a bit of an unconventional shape and a K. But the ASET (which I knew to request because the Kool-Aid told me to )
showed it would be a bright and lively diamond. I love it.

My next Kool-Aid induced purchase were my studs. Went with BGD Signature H si1's. That Kool-Aid was very good too!

I view PS this way: if I spending hard earned money on jewelry, I want to feel I made savvy decisions & got the most for my money.
I have made many other purchases since then and in every respect felt they were worth what I spent, well researched and much better deals than I could have found without the knowledge gained from PS.
Pass me the Kool-Aid please

 

[MarionC]

This is what I got:

.88ct ACA H VS2
I don't have it yet but I hope I love it!

Sorry long post

a little bit of thread hijacking...

Kansas_Lady, my story is similar, and I [finally] ended my search with an ACA exactly the same ct wt, & it arrives tomorrow. They are beautiful diamonds. I've seen one before, so I'm really excited to open that box tomorrow. I hope you will post your reactions - - -and photos

 

[LLJsmom]

Some Kool-Aid worked.

Beautiful settings, AVR, AVC, warmer old-cut obsession, french cuts, Single Stone, Canera...Yes, now a convert.

Not so much. MRB - still prefer it in colorless D-Fs. Still mind-clean issues, at least for rings. Cut is king? Verdict is still out.

 

[ChristineRose]

These are some ideas I have found a bit Kool-Aid-y:

It's better to go down in color to a grade that has visible tint under less than optimal conditions than to compromise cut.
It's better to go down in clarity and stretch the concept of eye-clean than to compromise cut.
It's better to buy a small, superbly cut diamond, than a bigger diamond.
It's better to buy a simple setting than to compromise on your diamond.
A precision cut diamond is better than a standard cut diamond of the same proportions.
GIA excellent was made fairly broad because the cutters demanded it.
Synthetics are junk.
CE diamonds will fall apart.
CE diamonds have no resale value (this is more or less true of all diamonds).
Natural is better (I like to visualize a diamond mine when anyone called mined diamonds "natural.")

There are some people that look at the "bad" stones and like them better than the PS-approved ones. That's especially true when you include price tags of course. I don't discount the value of advice from people who don't have money in the game--that's invaluable. And nothing being said on PS is false it's just that not everybody necessarily defines better same way the site does.

 

[Dancing Fire]

There are some people that look at the "bad" stones and like them better than the PS-approved ones. That's especially true when you include price tags of course. I don't discount the value of advice from people who don't have money in the game--that's invaluable. And nothing being said on PS is false it's just that not everybody necessarily defines better same way the site does.

Then Ebay is perfect for you...

 

[Todd Gray]

These are some ideas I have found a bit Kool-Aid-y:

It's better to go down in color to a grade that has visible tint under less than optimal conditions than to compromise cut.
It's better to go down in clarity and stretch the concept of eye-clean than to compromise cut.
It's better to buy a small, superbly cut diamond, than a bigger diamond.
It's better to buy a simple setting than to compromise on your diamond.
A precision cut diamond is better than a standard cut diamond of the same proportions.
GIA excellent was made fairly broad because the cutters demanded it.
Synthetics are junk.
CE diamonds will fall apart.
CE diamonds have no resale value (this is more or less true of all diamonds).
Natural is better (I like to visualize a diamond mine when anyone called mined diamonds "natural.")

There are some people that look at the "bad" stones and like them better than the PS-approved ones. That's especially true when you include price tags of course. I don't discount the value of advice from people who don't have money in the game--that's invaluable. And nothing being said on PS is false it's just that not everybody necessarily defines better same way the site does.

This is why it is important for people to spend some time actually looking at diamonds prior to purchasing one, in order to determine which of the many options available meets their personal sense of what is attractive and desirable in a diamond. I don't necessarily disagree with the points that you're making, but I do see things from a different perspective and want to share an alternative point of view, which possibly explains the basis of some of the things which you've apparently been told. As with most things in life, they are rarely as simple as they seem and are often merely a matter of personal preference:

1. I have evaluated countless thousands of diamonds in the almost 30 years that I have been in the industry, thus I have definitely had the time and opportunity to define the parameters of my personal preference, and I would be inclined to sacrifice a color grade or two, in order to maintain the range of proportions that I prefer, and the volume of light return and sparkle which result from it.

2. I actually did select an SI-2 clarity, I-color, round diamond which was not "eye clean" and exhibited very strong blue fluorescence for my own personal wedding ring, because it enabled me to get 2.25 carats... buying a diamond always involves determining how to balance the characteristics to achieve the look that one is going for.

3. The 2.25 carat which I purchased, was superbly cut, but I definitely could have purchased a larger diamond if I had ignored my preference for proportions and diamond cut quality behind... but I chose light return and sparkle over size, as stated previously it is a matter of personal preference.

4. If I had a nickel for every email which I receive from people who tell me that they are on a tight budget, looking for a one carat diamond, which (without apparently actually looking at a single diamond in-person) has to be Hearts and Arrows, D-E-F color, VS-1 or higher in clarity, and set in a $4k halo setting which she's in love with and simply MUST have, when their budget maxes out at $10K, I would make, like an extra $1.50 per week!

So how do "you" effectively approach helping a person who presents this type of predicament? I usually start out by pointing out that their budget is out of line with their expectations, demonstrate the price of what they are asking for, present some options of what they could afford by moving things around (color, clarity, carat weight, and yes, even cut quality) and do suggest considering a simple solitaire which will enable them to buy a larger diamond, primarily because I've seen lots of women upgrade their wedding sets, but very few seem inclined to let go of the diamond, thus it makes sense to me to buy the largest, best diamond that your budget allows from the start and point them towards my article on diamond shrinkage syndrome to lighten the mood, but drive the point home.

5. If both diamonds are actually cut to the exact same proportions, not just the same average proportions, with the same star facet length, and the same lower girdle halves, then the buyer is off to a great start... However if they are looking at two diamonds with seemingly the same proportions, let's say a crown angle of 34.5 degrees, which is offset by a pavilion angle of 40.8 degrees, but the precision cut diamond has a high/low range of 34.3 - 34.8 degrees for the crown angle, and a high/low range of 40.6 - 41.0 degrees for the pavilion angle; while the standard cut diamond "of the same proportions" has a high/low of 34.1 - 34.9 degrees, which is offset by a pavilion angle which is based on a high/low of 40.2 - 41.4 degrees, they certainly would present differently in terms of the volume of light return and sparkle factor... Or let's take the "premium ideal cut diamond" which I looked at last night which had LGF's that averaged 80% but the high was actually a hair under 83% and it's being compared with an ideal cut diamond with LGF's which are 76% yea, it's going to make a difference.

6. The gemological laboratories are not immune from financial pressure which is placed on them by the industry, those of us who have been around for awhile, actively involved in the trade, will recall the skirmish that occurred when Peter Yantzer, Director of the AGSL, then Director for one of the GIA laboratories, proposed adding a cut grade to the GIA diamond grading report... As I recall, two trade organizations threatened an outright boycott of the GIA laboratory, who caved to the pressure, resulting in the creation of the AGS Laboratory, and it took almost ten years for the GIA to catch up - and there are those of us who would argue that they have never caught up... but that's another topic all together.

Those of us in the trade, know full well, that many of the diamonds sent to the GIA for grading, are sent by cutters who know full well that they can get an overall cut grade of GIA Excellent by doing so, but that they have no hope of getting AGS Ideal-0 on the same diamond. It's no different than cutters / wholesalers who send their goods to 2nd tier labs, knowing full well that they are likely to get a higher clarity and color grade, than if they sent the same diamond to the GIA / AGSL.

7. Here again it is a matter of personal preference, some people like women with breast implants, and some people prefer women with natural breasts, but you can't always tell the difference until you have the opportunity to inspect them thoroughly, in which case you might re-evaluate the situation and/or change the perception of value that you created in your mind, or might not care in the slightest little bit, based upon your personal preference. But it's always nice to know what you're getting in advance of completing the purchase... just say'n.

8. CE Diamonds might not just fall apart, but if you've ever lit one up with a torch (as done when re-tipping a diamond) you'll know that the filling crackles, spits, and burns right out of the diamond within seconds.

9. Just like a vehicle which has been wrecked, filled with bondo, and sold with a salvage title, CE Diamonds are not worth as much as a diamond of the same characteristics which has not been treated, and they are much more difficult to sell in the secondary market. And most second hand dealers and jewelry stores are not inclined to pay top dollar for something which they didn't sell to begin with, and they probably don't care whether they purchase the item or not, thus the seller needs to make it worth their while to do so, in the business world, that usually presents itself as the opportunity to make profits, which requires that the item be purchased at a price low enough to make that possible, and there needs to be an incentive to buy it used, and not new from an established supplier.

Note that the people who pose questions here on PS are actually asking for input from people with experience, by which to better form their own opinion, I'm not aware of a single person who has been forced into buying a diamond from any one of us, nor forced into drinking the Kool-Aid which we set forth in a variety of flavors, and therein is an interesting point to consider... is the Kool-Aid being offered grape flavored, blue, orange, sweetened with sugar, or sugar-free? Is it even Kool-Aid at all, or is it simply a generic knock-off? What a thread...

 

[Karl_K]

This thread is bugging me and it just hit me what it was.


"ideal cut" should not be the PS Kool-Aid.
The PS Kool-Aid should be MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!
That a long time member does not see it that way makes me sad and wonder what can be done about it.

 

[Todd Gray]

This thread is bugging me and it just hit me what it was.

"ideal cut" should not be the PS Kool-Aid.
The PS Kool-Aid should be MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!
That a long time member does not see it that way makes me sad and wonder what can be done about it.

 

[CanuckAB]

The PS Kool-Aid should be MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!

I agree 100% with this!

 

[Gypsy]

Excellent posts Todd and Karl.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Love both posts as well! This is an educational forum. There are forums for many, many things: cars, pets, watches, cooking, etc. The purpose of them is to educate and inform buyers - not to encourage people to spend their money on sub par items. If you've had the chance to learn here about diamonds and cut quality and then take that information out into the buying world, you'll probably understand its merit. If you're trying to use some of it on one or two diamonds or many unseen diamonds on the internet, you may feel that it is asking for more perfection or money than you prefer. That's when everyone has to make their own determinations regarding color, clarity, cut quality and budget. It doesn't mean that the advice is wrong or prejudiced; it may mean that folks have a hard time achieving as large a stone as they would like or as good a color as they had hoped while applying excellent cut quality standards.

The Kool-Aid is the Kool-Aid - whether you drink it or not is entirely up to you.

 

[Dancing Fire]

This thread is bugging me and it just hit me what it was.


"ideal cut" should not be the PS Kool-Aid.
The PS Kool-Aid should be MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!
That a long time member does not see it that way makes me sad and wonder what can be done about it.

Stormy, are you talking to me?.. b/c for the last 10 yrs I have not bought any diamonds outside the AGS 0 cut box.

 

[4_cs]

For me it is a guide.Since finding PS I have looked at more diamonds online than I care to admit. I have also visited many jewelry stores to look at diamonds . My "diamond eyes" are new but I am learning.I found out I much prefer OEC's and AVR's to a MRB, but without PS I wouldn't have known. I much prefer the information I can get here to educate myself about diamonds, then relying on a salesman in a store. I researched the car I drive, my home appliances , restaurants and hotels. I want to make informed purchasing decisions. PS is part of that process.

 

[Roxy]

For me it is a guide.Since finding PS I have looked at more diamonds online than I care to admit. I have also visited many jewelry stores to look at diamonds . My "diamond eyes" are new but I am learning.I found out I much prefer OEC's and AVR's to a MRB, but without PS I wouldn't have known. I much prefer the information I can get here to educate myself about diamonds, then relying on a salesman in a store. I researched the car I drive, my home appliances , restaurants and hotels. I want to make informed purchasing decisions. PS is part of that process.

This is a great example of what I think that PSers try to do. Since most folks don't spend a lot of time studying diamonds as a hobby, and often come to PS knowing very little (like I did), I think a lot of us try to give enough info and opinions to light the fire of intellectual curiosity on the parts of "new" consumers.

The idea is that the consumer will then do additional research on their own (e.g, spend some time in local jewelry stores applying some of the info they’ve received here), and come back for additional guidance, comparisons, etc.

When I first came to this site 11 years ago, I loved the idea of getting a ton of insight and DIFFERENT opinions from a variety of perspectives that would give me something NEW to think about. So anytime I give my opinion to someone, I try to remember what I enjoy most from this site and I try my best to provide additional "food for thought" from another viewpoint.