Do you send your kids to sleep-away summer camps?

[Laila619]

Ditto MC...I'm just a very nervous parent in general. I hate my kids being away over night. I worry about lack of supervision, lack of security, etc.

 

[jstarfireb]

I don't have kids, but I went to soccer camp and space camp as a kid and loved both. I'd have no problem sending kids there as long as they were interested in whatever the camp was about, but I wouldn't want to force a camp on them if they weren't into it. So I'd let the kid decide.

 

[Snowdrop13]

There aren't really any camps like that here (UK), maybe due to the weather or shorter summer hols (about 6 weeks)??? I'm pretty sure I'd let my older child (11) go as I'm happy he can swim, cross roads safely, use a cell phone to call for help etc etc but not my younger one as he can't. I'm amazed there are so many worries about potential molestation- don't you have checks on people who look after children?

 

[purplesparklies]

My oldest, who will be 12 in 2 weeks (YIKES), is away at camp for his very first time right now. It is very popular in this area and is held at a Campfire campground at a lake. It is only $450 for the week and includes tons of activities. Each week there are specialty programs and themes. Each camper participates in all of the normal camp activities: crafts, swimming, archery, etc. and gets to choose three "electives" to focus on. This week, one of the specialty activities is archaeology. My son is hugely interested in archaeology so he chose to participate in archaeology, canoeing and stand-up paddle boarding.

The background check on camp employees and volunteers is extensive. The ratio of counselors to campers is excellent. My son has 5 boys in his cabin and two counselors. As a protective and aware parent and teacher, I am aware of possible risks. They are truly everywhere. I am much more comfortable with sending my child to this very well established and respected camp that has been around for decades than I am sending my child to the home of some random classmate whose family I don't know well. There truly is safety in numbers. Child predators need to be able to isolate a child.

The camp counselors are all past camp attendees whose lives have been hugely impacted and who come from all over to be a part of the camp experience for young campers. They have made great friendships with kids who they never would have had the opportunity to meet. I can't wait to hear all about my son's experiences this week. I suspect that he, like many of his friends, will insist on going every year. It makes me happy to think that this camp will give him amazing childhood memories that he will have always.

 

[pandabee]

No overnight camps b/c I would be worried about child molesters. And, not all molesters are grown ups. If a child has been molested, there is more chance they might do something inappropriate and I don't want my kids to rely on strangers to protect them from this.

Second reason is I don't always think the camp counselors pay enough attention. My kids & I were at a park and there was a YMCA group there and the counselors were all texting on their phones while the kids threw rocks and did whatever they wanted.

My kids are allowed to spend the night at friend's houses. We've never had a serious problem, but there are a couple houses they cannot sleep over at again due to events that have transpired over the years.

We had hoped to do some fun day camps that include kayaking, hiking, etc., but the prices are really high for two boys so we're going to do those next year. This year, I've taken them to do those things on our own and we go swimming, camping, etc., but we're spreading the events out through the summer...a hike one day, home the next, then a museum another day, home... my kids like down time.

I know your post didn't mean to single anyone out but as a former camp counselor, I am a little saddened that a parent wouldn't feel comfortable leaving their kids at a respectable camp. I don't know the situation about the YMCA group but perhaps it was a day camp, where the counselors might feel more like glorified babysitters than a true camp counselor who had gone through training and talked about standard procedures of the institution. At the camp I worked at, we had a strict no cell phone policy. We were only permitted to use our phones during breaks, never by the pool or while watching kids, or even in our cabins at night. I don't intend to change your views but just wanted to let you know there are camps and camp counselors out there that parents should feel comfortable leaving their children with.

My oldest, who will be 12 in 2 weeks (YIKES), is away at camp for his very first time right now. It is very popular in this area and is held at a Campfire campground at a lake. It is only $450 for the week and includes tons of activities. Each week there are specialty programs and themes. Each camper participates in all of the normal camp activities: crafts, swimming, archery, etc. and gets to choose three "electives" to focus on. This week, one of the specialty activities is archaeology. My son is hugely interested in archaeology so he chose to participate in archaeology, canoeing and stand-up paddle boarding.

The background check on camp employees and volunteers is extensive. The ratio of counselors to campers is excellent. My son has 5 boys in his cabin and two counselors. As a protective and aware parent and teacher, I am aware of possible risks. They are truly everywhere. I am much more comfortable with sending my child to this very well established and respected camp that has been around for decades than I am sending my child to the home of some random classmate whose family I don't know well. There truly is safety in numbers. Child predators need to be able to isolate a child.

The camp counselors are all past camp attendees whose lives have been hugely impacted and who come from all over to be a part of the camp experience for young campers. They have made great friendships with kids who they never would have had the opportunity to meet. I can't wait to hear all about my son's experiences this week. I suspect that he, like many of his friends, will insist on going every year. It makes me happy to think that this camp will give him amazing childhood memories that he will have always.

Thanks for that post purplesparklies! That sounds a lot like the camp that I worked at. It is definitely an amazing bond that holds people together. Many of the counselors went to camp together and became counselors together. It is great to see that even some of my past campers have now become counselors!

 

[House Cat]

I used to send my oldest son to Camp Gut Busters. It is a camp for kids with Crohn's and Colitis. The camp has medical staff onsite, excellent food, and fabulous activities for the kids. It was great for us parents who can't really send our special needs kids away to camp because of their meds, feeding tubes, etc. The camp is totally free too. Once the kids get older, they can become counselors.

The other really great aspect of this camp was that my son got to see that he wasn't alone. He learned what other children went through with their illness.

If you're located in the Northern CA area and know kids with Crohn's disease or Colitis, you should mention the camp to them. I'm sure their doctor already has, but just in case...

I think there's one in Southern CA too, but not certain.

If your children have special needs of any kind, I think it's a good idea to see what kind of activities are out there for them. You never know!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Having not read any of the responses, when can they start? Is 14 months too young? And where does one find these camps? Also, exactly how long can they stay?

Or should I say, commiserations? Young ones take a lot of work. Not much time to

Another thread got me curious. Do your kids attend sleep-away summer camps? If so, what age did they start? How long are they away?

No, my kids do not attend sleep-away camps and they won't ever.

We're in the minority here, but mine won't go either. I'm too nervous!

They can sleepover at Grandma's and Grandpa's house.

Ladies, care to elaborate? I think I might be in this minority too, but haven't really thought much about it as mine is so young.



I never went, no money for such things when I was a child. And let me just say that the prices being quoted here made me say faaaaaaaark!

No overnight camps b/c I would be worried about child molesters. And, not all molesters are grown ups. If a child has been molested, there is more chance they might do something inappropriate and I don't want my kids to rely on strangers to protect them from this.

Second reason is I don't always think the camp counselors pay enough attention. My kids & I were at a park and there was a YMCA group there and the counselors were all texting on their phones while the kids threw rocks and did whatever they wanted.

My kids are allowed to spend the night at friend's houses. We've never had a serious problem, but there are a couple houses they cannot sleep over at again due to events that have transpired over the years.

We had hoped to do some fun day camps that include kayaking, hiking, etc., but the prices are really high for two boys so we're going to do those next year. This year, I've taken them to do those things on our own and we go swimming, camping, etc., but we're spreading the events out through the summer...a hike one day, home the next, then a museum another day, home... my kids like down time.

So do your children go to school? Or do you homeschool? What about going to church (or insert whatever religious institution here) or clubs like boys scouts etc? All of these places have been it the news for molesters. I totally understand your concern as this is my #1 fear for my children, but I wouldn't rule out everything becasue it has happened in the past.

They are kept in little bubbles and I let them out once a day for exercise!

Of course they go to school but they aren't left alone with an adult overnight at school...in a classroom setting, with 25 or so kids, I don't think that can be comparable to overnight camp. We do not go to church and are not members of the boy scouts. The clubs they've been part of have been ran where there are at least two leaders and they have meetings a couple hours long, but no child is ever alone with an adult or put in that position. When they go on field trips, I now ask the teacher who my children will be chaperoned by.

And, someone in the family married a person who has a relative who raped a child. I didn't know the full details for years and during that time, he started showing up at family events hosted at our house. I told everyone I found out the REAL story and peoples' feelings became hurt over it like I was the bad person...(he went to prison and everything) and the pathetic part is everyone pretends like it never happened, he still goes to events (but not at our house anymore), and they act like everything is just fine. It's the most bizarre denial ever. That is the scariest. When people still allow someone like that in their home b/c they're a relative.

 

[pregcurious]

I started going as a child at the age of 12.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I know your post didn't mean to single anyone out but as a former camp counselor, I am a little saddened that a parent wouldn't feel comfortable leaving their kids at a respectable camp. I don't know the situation about the YMCA group but perhaps it was a day camp, where the counselors might feel more like glorified babysitters than a true camp counselor who had gone through training and talked about standard procedures of the institution. At the camp I worked at, we had a strict no cell phone policy. We were only permitted to use our phones during breaks, never by the pool or while watching kids, or even in our cabins at night. I don't intend to change your views but just wanted to let you know there are camps and camp counselors out there that parents should feel comfortable leaving their children with.s!

Yes, it was one of the day camps. The YMCA has before/after school care during the school year and full-day care during the summer and yes, they're basically glorified babysitters. It was very disturbing b/c I had taken my kids to a quiet park and then suddenly an entire busload of kids come running off the bus and were being "watched" by teens texting on their phones. That was four or five years ago. I'm not sure if the problem is better or worse now, but I will vouch for the YMCA pool and say the lifeguards there are extremely attentive. They pay attention and switch off regularly so nobody starts to space out or anything. My kids DO change in the individual changing rooms, though, not the locker room.

And, I do know of two camp counselors who did that as a job in high school and both were mature and responsible...but they were girls. I wouldn't want my sons to be with male counselors.

And, fwiw, I'm less strict than other parents. Some of my younger son's friends have never spent the night at any friends' houses before.

 

[momhappy]

No overnight camps b/c I would be worried about child molesters. And, not all molesters are grown ups. If a child has been molested, there is more chance they might do something inappropriate and I don't want my kids to rely on strangers to protect them from this.

Second reason is I don't always think the camp counselors pay enough attention. My kids & I were at a park and there was a YMCA group there and the counselors were all texting on their phones while the kids threw rocks and did whatever they wanted.

My kids are allowed to spend the night at friend's houses. We've never had a serious problem, but there are a couple houses they cannot sleep over at again due to events that have transpired over the years.

We had hoped to do some fun day camps that include kayaking, hiking, etc., but the prices are really high for two boys so we're going to do those next year. This year, I've taken them to do those things on our own and we go swimming, camping, etc., but we're spreading the events out through the summer...a hike one day, home the next, then a museum another day, home... my kids like down time.

I know your post didn't mean to single anyone out but as a former camp counselor, I am a little saddened that a parent wouldn't feel comfortable leaving their kids at a respectable camp. I don't know the situation about the YMCA group but perhaps it was a day camp, where the counselors might feel more like glorified babysitters than a true camp counselor who had gone through training and talked about standard procedures of the institution. At the camp I worked at, we had a strict no cell phone policy. We were only permitted to use our phones during breaks, never by the pool or while watching kids, or even in our cabins at night. I don't intend to change your views but just wanted to let you know there are camps and camp counselors out there that parents should feel comfortable leaving their children with.

My oldest, who will be 12 in 2 weeks (YIKES), is away at camp for his very first time right now. It is very popular in this area and is held at a Campfire campground at a lake. It is only $450 for the week and includes tons of activities. Each week there are specialty programs and themes. Each camper participates in all of the normal camp activities: crafts, swimming, archery, etc. and gets to choose three "electives" to focus on. This week, one of the specialty activities is archaeology. My son is hugely interested in archaeology so he chose to participate in archaeology, canoeing and stand-up paddle boarding.

The background check on camp employees and volunteers is extensive. The ratio of counselors to campers is excellent. My son has 5 boys in his cabin and two counselors. As a protective and aware parent and teacher, I am aware of possible risks. They are truly everywhere. I am much more comfortable with sending my child to this very well established and respected camp that has been around for decades than I am sending my child to the home of some random classmate whose family I don't know well. There truly is safety in numbers. Child predators need to be able to isolate a child.

The camp counselors are all past camp attendees whose lives have been hugely impacted and who come from all over to be a part of the camp experience for young campers. They have made great friendships with kids who they never would have had the opportunity to meet. I can't wait to hear all about my son's experiences this week. I suspect that he, like many of his friends, will insist on going every year. It makes me happy to think that this camp will give him amazing childhood memories that he will have always.

Thanks for that post purplesparklies! That sounds a lot like the camp that I worked at. It is definitely an amazing bond that holds people together. Many of the counselors went to camp together and became counselors together. It is great to see that even some of my past campers have now become counselors!

Child molestation has little to do with "respectable" camps and I don't think that MC was being unreasonable. I would guess that it's a fear that she shares with every parent. Sure, child molestation can happen any time/any where, but t's not that far-fetched to think that molestation is maybe more likely to occur when a child is not under the direct supervision of a parent (like when a child is away at camp). It's not an insult to all camp counselors.

 

[ericad]

I wouldn't let our daughter go because of my fear of child predators. It's too risky. As a kid, our neighborhood day care was busted for child pornography and nearly all of my friends were victims of this family who would have passed any criminal background check with flying colors. My brother and I were spared because our parents were very protective - we never had baby sitters, sleep overs (until we were much older), weren't allowed to ride our bikes to the store or to school alone, etc. There was also a rash of child abductions in the East Bay (where we lived) while we were growing up in the 80's, which reinforced the limitations our parents set for us. In fact, our next door neighbors' teen daughter was the victim of an attempted abduction right on the corner next to our house, in broad daylight, by a couple in a car. It was terrifying, but she got away.

While there aren't predators lurking around every corner, they do exist around us and so I'm always cautious about putting my child in a situation where she can be victimized. While I don't smother her, I do weight the risks and try to make good and balanced choices. Some parents in my circle are more protective than I am, and others view me as being the overprotective one. I'm ok with that. It's a balancing act.

PS - we've already had 2 separate situations where our daughter received inappropriate attention, once at age 4 and once at age 7. It's frightening to see someone trying to gain access to your child, engaging in grooming behavior. Had we not been present to see the warning signs (in both instances it would have been easy for her to have been left alone with both individuals, unsupervised, if we were less protective) it might have escalated into something catastrophic. Both situations occurred in places with many other people around, over a period of time, by individuals who we would only consider to be acquaintances (which is why their behavior stood out to us as being clearly inappropriate.)

 

[Sky56]

ericad - what you wrote was very interesting and disturbing. I have several adult friends who were sexually abused when they were children by relatives. I was surprised at how many friends/acquaintances told me this happened to them. I don't know anyone personally who was affected by stranger abduction.

Getting back to summer camps, don't you think that kids verbally and physically abusing other kids (non-sexual) is ~far~ more common at camps and similar situations than sexual abuse? I think the biggest prevalent risk to your kid is non-sexual abuse from other kids! I would have given anything to spend the summer in my neighborhood or with my parents. After age 15, I did that - no more summer camp.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

ericad - what you wrote was very interesting and disturbing. I have several adult friends who were sexually abused when they were children by relatives. I was surprised at how many friends/acquaintances told me this happened to them. I don't know anyone personally who was affected by stranger abduction.

Getting back to summer camps, don't you think that kids verbally and physically abusing other kids (non-sexual) is ~far~ more common at camps and similar situations than sexual abuse? I think the biggest prevalent risk to your kid is non-sexual abuse from other kids! I would have given anything to spend the summer in my neighborhood or with my parents. After age 15, I did that - no more summer camp.

Verbal & physical abuse is certainly more common at school and so I'm guessing it's the same as summer camps. I've always told my kids that if a child physically assaults them, to hit them back, but my kids have never done so. One of their friends was being bullied by another child and the one being bullied (who is one of my son's best friends) had also been told the same thing but his mom never expected him to fight back but one day he DID decide to fight back and turned and punched the bully in the nose and gave him a bloody nose. The bully never bullied the other boy again. Go figure. The boys needed to establish boundaries and they somehow did on their own terms.

Bullying, in general, is pretty bad, though. There are a lot of complaints and kids have even transferred to other schools b/c of it. My kids have been on both ends. Other parents have even tried to bully me! It is weird. There is one parent who confronted me twice on school grounds, the second time YELLING out at me, "have you talked to your son about his behavior?" I talked to a third parent and it turned out the bully mom was complaining to the other parent about her son, my son and two or three other boys plus another girl. She sure had her hands full! She told the other parent that she wanted her to call and tell each parent that the kids were not behaving properly. The other parent only called me and then we just decided to let it go.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I used to send my oldest son to Camp Gut Busters. It is a camp for kids with Crohn's and Colitis. The camp has medical staff onsite, excellent food, and fabulous activities for the kids. It was great for us parents who can't really send our special needs kids away to camp because of their meds, feeding tubes, etc. The camp is totally free too. Once the kids get older, they can become counselors.

The other really great aspect of this camp was that my son got to see that he wasn't alone. He learned what other children went through with their illness.

If you're located in the Northern CA area and know kids with Crohn's disease or Colitis, you should mention the camp to them. I'm sure their doctor already has, but just in case...

I think there's one in Southern CA too, but not certain.

If your children have special needs of any kind, I think it's a good idea to see what kind of activities are out there for them. You never know!

I'm not sure of the name of the camp here, but there's also a similar camp for celiac, etc., around here.

 

[ericad]

And what's the deal with not allowing kids to call home while at camp? Maybe not every camp does this, but the camp I went to as a kid wouldn't allow us to call home, not even once. And a friend of mine just had a major feud with her daughter's school over the same issue. The week long camp had the same rule, and so she refused to allow her daughter to go until the camp agreed that she could bring her cell phone and use it to call home once per day.

Why wouldn't camps let the kids call home? That's crazy to me!

 

[purplesparklies]

It is so troubling to hear of the personal stories related here. Most of us have them, sadly. I have cousins who were molested by a neighbor man. He was older, friendly, seemingly harmless. I have a friend whose son was molested within a 2-minute time frame by an employee of a local store while the boy was in the bathroom and the mother was in the aisle outside the door with her two young daughters.

The thing to remember is that we all need to be aware and make our children aware. My older son is going into middle school. His bubble is growing. I can't be with him every minute, as much as I may like to think I can. Educate your children. I am the mother of two sons. I have tried very hard to make sure my boys are aware of the dangers in the world. I work hard to teach them to respect their bodies and to make sure others do as well. We started, at a very young age, to discuss boundaries. If it is covered by a bathing suit, no one but themselves, their mom & dad or their doctor should ever touch that area. We have discussed and role-played responses to inappropriate actions by others or even what to do when something simply doesn't feel right. Teach your children to trust their instincts always. Read The Gift of Fear. It is a great book. Discuss it with your children.

Teach your children how to react to any threat. Teach them basic self defense moves. Teach them to scream and kick and run. Have them practice. There are threats in the world. Teach your children to be aware of their surroundings. The best gift you can give your child is knowledge. I am doing my best to arm my children with the knowledge, skills and confidence to go out in the world and be happy, successful and well adjusted. Yes, it is terrifying to allow them to spread their wings and fly a bit. I hate it. My goal is to make them aware of real threats but not teach them to be timid and scared. It is not easy.

My child wanted desperately to attend camp with his friend. He wanted to experience all of the things his friends come home talking about. He is smart. He is aware. He is confident. As a mother, I have a tremendous amount of anxiety and the potential dangers are on a seemingly never-ending reel that runs in my mind. Some allow their kids to attend summer camp or sports camp or art camp. Some don't. Some allow their kids to attend sleepovers. Some don't. It isn't because some care more than others. It is simply a difference in perceived threat &/or our perceptions of how well equipped our child is to deal with potential threats. We all do the best we can.

 

[TooPatient]

And what's the deal with not allowing kids to call home while at camp? Maybe not every camp does this, but the camp I went to as a kid wouldn't allow us to call home, not even once. And a friend of mine just had a major feud with her daughter's school over the same issue. The week long camp had the same rule, and so she refused to allow her daughter to go until the camp agreed that she could bring her cell phone and use it to call home once per day.

Why wouldn't camps let the kids call home? That's crazy to me!

Where "A" is at right now doesn't allow cell phones or any other electronic devices. They do have a couple of phones but those are for emergency use only. The kids aren't allowed to call out and we aren't allowed to speak with them on the phone. The exception being for family emergencies.
They do have staff to take any calls we want to make, answer all of our questions, and get "A" for us if we really have to.

BUT

They do have "e-mail", paper mail, etc.
We are able to e-mail her and then they print it out and deliver as much as we want. She can write on paper and they scan/e-mail to us. Plenty of paper mail opportunities. We can also send packages to her or order from their on-site gift shop and have that taken to her. They also have staff taking pictures through the day and those get posted every evening so we can see what they've been doing.



BTW,

I can see how people would be concerned about safety. We're comfortable because this is a well respected place that has been around for a long time. Counselors go through much training. They've got two counselors in each cabin plus others keeping an eye around the place. Private showers etc.

 

[Gypsy]

I was overprotected as a child. Severely over-protected. When I was 12 I was finally allowed to walk to and from school (6 blocks). My grandfather would follow me, as I walked, in the car. Kid you not. It was embarrassing and polarizing. My friends who lived on my block and walked to school thought it was weird, and I wasn't able to walk with them. They all walked in a group. I trailed behind, alone. And my grandfather followed in the car. I was 17 before I was allowed to go to summer camp (as a camp counselor). And I was 17 before I was allowed to sleep over anyone's house (senior in highschool). My curfew was 8pm. It was ridiculous.

If I wanted a pair of shoes, three people offered an opinion. My mother was (without cause) completely worried about my arches. Wasn't allowed to buy shoes alone, or clothes. Every time I did the minute I walked in the house I was told in detail all the mistakes I'd made (that shade doesn't look good on you-- The horror! That style is a fad, it won't last!), forced to return the stuff and buy what the adults "knew" was a better choice. After a while it wasn't worth it to try anymore. They broke me. Either I was so scared of making the wrong choice I couldn't chose between a pink or blue sweater and had an anxiety attack (real). Or I'd just wait till my mom had time and she could pick it all out (obedient zombie). I wanted to play the flute... my mother had heard an old wives tale that it deforms your lips. No flute. I can't tell you the sheer number of fears my family instilled in me. Violins will give you calluses! OH NO!! Can't have calluses! Choir. That I was allowed to do. Except all my friends were in other music classes. And I knew no one in choir. Did it matter? No. It was the "right" choice.

And OMG, does it affect your socialization and your comfort level with your peers. And once you hit college... it cripples you.

In college I met a LOT of overprotected kids with terrible instincts-- either completely wild since they were free for the first time to make decisions for themselves, and making terrible decisions. Or completely afraid of everything and unable to make a decision for themselves without calling home; crippled. One girl had been so sexually repressed (orthodox religious household) she dropped on her knees and made every guy happy who gave her a smile. She got an STD, not surprising. Had no idea she could from oral sex. Another girl didn't know much about alcohol. Drank punch at a party. It was made with Everclear. She was wheeled out by the paramedics as I watched. Fortunately dating and supervised drinking (wine with dinners) were two things my mom HAD let me experiment with a little with so neither was very alluring for me and I didn't end up in the hospital like those two.

I had no middle ground on other things though. I fluctuated between wild rebellion and fear. It was awful not know how to make decisions for myself as a 20 year old. I had no confidence and my much wilier peers took advantage of that, often. So honestly, did my bosses. And my co-workers. I had a verbally abusive boss at 22. NO IDEA how to handle it. Every time before that if someone bullied me, I called my mom. Guess what? You can't call your MOM on your boss. You have to deal with it yourself. And you have no idea how. So either you quit, or take the abuse. Either way... bad.

I can tell you that the best thing you can do is to trust your kids and trust yourself (trust but verify) once they hit grade school, with growing responsibilities... and some SPACE to make their own decisions so they learn to start trusting their own judgement.

Cause folks: eventually they are gonna have to do that. And you DO NOT want that to be when they are 20 and have a shiny new credit card and are in Europe for spring break... where the drinking age is 18. You want that to be when they are 11 and wanting to try goats milk, or to buy the 'wrong' shoes. Something that you can supervise... but allow them decide for themselves. So what if they try goats milk and its gross. Great. Now they know. Or they try it and love it. Great. What is the purpose of protecting them from the experience? There isn't any. So they eat a Twinkie on occasion: feed them good food 95% of the time and teach them good eating habits AND how to cook to counteract it. One Twinkie every three months isn't the bed of the world. So they buy shoes that don't match anything they own? Either they carry it off with their own unique sense of style, or they learn they prefer more classic styles. Either way? Who cares! The world isn't going to end. If your son wants a pink tu-tu...get him one. If you girl wants camo... get her some. Earth will keep spinning. Don't sit there and tell them why its wrong, or why they will regret it. Let them experience it, while you supervise. And your kid will make mistakes. And then learn that it's not the end of the world when they do. And you will too. That's what you want them to do. They need to understand that making mistakes is how we learn and grow. And that sometimes the only way you can really live is to take risks, then enjoy the rewards, or deal with the challenges. Existing isn't enough. Safe in your apartment. Afraid to go out.

My cousin's best friend committed suicide at age 20. Kid was all Ivy League. Country Club set parents. Did a lot of charity work in highschool, played sports and was generally outgoing. Why did he kill himself? He had been overprotected for so long, that when he was he went to college he finally was FORCED to make decisions for himself. Well... not surprising, he made some mistakes. Had NO IDEA how to deal with it. Couldn't handle failure, thought it was all his own fault and now he's dead.

Training wheels are good. But you gotta let go. Cut those apron strings one by one. So its gradual and before that kid is left alone on their own, they've got a history of good decisions behind them to guide them and the confidence to stick by their decisions when their peers try to talk them into stupid sh*t. And so they learn that when they make a mistake... it's OK. That they have to pick themselves up and keep going.

You can't protect them forever. You've got to teach them to protect themselves. And the solution to that is not to teach them to be afraid of everything. It's to teach them that life can be scary, but that they can handle it. To let them make decisions, and mistakes. And YES to expose them to situations that are not perfectly within your control at all times. Because you are NOT going to always be there.

Frankly you could be hit by a truck next week. Where will that leave your overprotected child then? In a worse situation than if you let him go to summer camp for a week or two (8 weeks is a too long for the first or second time), learn to live in an environment outside of parental control, where he has to make decisions and mistakes without you. Kids have to learn to deal with "bad people" (not criminally bad, mind you) eventually. Might as well start them off in small doses, and when they can talk to you about it and so you can teach them how to deal with people who are bullies, or tyrants, or just plain MEAN. Cause they WILL NOT be able to avoid them forever.

 

[pregcurious]

I started going as a child at the age of 12.

I forgot to add, I was allowed to fly alone to the same camp at the age of 13. I ended up fine, and am very responsible. The freedom was important for my development. To this day, flying alone is not a big deal. I only fear flying with small children

 

[justginger]

I was overprotected as a child. Severely over-protected. When I was 12 I was finally allowed to walk to and from school (6 blocks). My grandfather would follow me, as I walked, in the car. Kid you not. It was embarrassing and polarizing. I was 17 before I was allowed to go to summer camp (as a camp counselor). And I was 17 before I was allowed to have a sleep over.

If I wanted a pair of shoes, three people offered an opinion. My mother was (without cause) completely worried about my arches. Wasn't allowed to buy shoes alone, or clothes. Every time I did the minute I walked in the house I was told in detail all the mistakes I'd made (that shade doesn't look good on you-- The horror! That style is a fad, it won't last!), forced to return the stuff and buy what the adults "knew" was a better choice. After a while it wasn't worth it to try anymore. They broke me. Either I was so scared of making the wrong choice I couldn't chose between a pink or blue sweater and had an anxiety attack (real). Or I'd just wait till my mom had time and she could pick it all out (obedient zombie). I wanted to play the flute... my mother had heard an old wives tale that it deforms your lips. No flute. I can't tell you the sheer number of fears my family instilled in me. Violins will give you calluses! OH NO!! Can't have calluses! Choir. That I was allowed to do. Except all my friends were in other music classes. And I knew no one in choice. Did it matter? No. It was the "right" choice.

And OMG, does it affect your socialization and your comfort level with your peers. And once you hit college... it cripples you.

I saw a LOT of overprotected kids with terrible instincts-- either completely wild since they were free for the first time to make decisions for themselves, and making terrible decisions. Or completely afraid of everything and unable to make a decision for themselves without calling home; crippled.

I was in the mix of both . No middle ground. I fluctuated between wild rebellion and fear. It was awful not know how to make decisions for myself as a 20 year old. I had no confidence and my much wilier peers took advantage of that, often. So honestly, did my bosses. And my co-workers. I had a verbally abusive boss at 22. NO IDEA how to handle it. Every time before that if someone bullied me, I called my mom. Guess what? You can't call your MOM on your boss. You have to deal with it yourself. And you have no idea how. So either you quit, or take the abuse. Either way... bad.

I can tell you that the best thing you can do is to trust your kids and trust yourself (trust but verify) once they hit grade school, with growing responsibilities... and some SPACE to make their own decisions so they learn to start trusting their own judgement.

Cause folks: eventually they are gonna have to do that. And you DO NOT want that to be when they are 20 and have a shiny new credit card and are in Europe for spring break... where the drinking age is 18. You want that to be when they are 11 and wanting to try goats milk, or to buy the 'wrong' shoes. Something that you can supervise... but allow them decide for themselves. So what if they try goats milk and its gross. Great. Now they know. Or they try it and love it. Great. What is the purpose of protecting them from the experience? There isn't any. So they eat a Twinkie on occasion: feed them good food 95% of the time and teach them good eating habits AND how to cook to counteract it. One Twinkie every three months isn't the bed of the world. So they buy shoes that don't match anything they own? Either they carry it off with their own unique sense of style, or they learn they prefer more classic styles. Either way? Who cares! The world isn't going to end. If your son wants a pink tu-tu...get him one. If you girl wants camo... get her some. Earth will keep spinning. And your kid will make mistakes. And then learn that it's not the end of the world when they do. And you will too. That's what you want.

My cousin's best friend committed suicide at age 20. Kid was all Ivy League. Country Club set parents. Did a lot of charity work in highschool, played sports and was generally outgoing. Why did he kill himself? He had been overprotected for so long, that when he was he went to college he finally was FORCED to make decisions for himself. Well... not surprising, he made some mistakes. Had NO IDEA how to deal with it. Couldn't handle failure, thought it was all his own fault and now he's dead.

Training wheels are good. But you gotta let go. Cut those apron strings one by one. So its gradual and before that kid is left alone on their own, they've got a history of good decisions behind them to guide them and the confidence to stick by their decisions when their peers try to talk them into stupid sh*t. And so they learn that when they make a mistake... it's OK. That they have to pick themselves up and keep going.

You can't protect them forever. You've got to teach them to protect themselves. And the solution to that is not to teach them to be afraid of everything. It's to teach them that life can be scary, but that they can handle it. To let them make decisions, and mistakes. And YES to expose them to situations that are not perfectly within your control at all times. Because you are NOT going to always be there.

Frankly you could be hit by a truck next week. Where will that leave your overprotected child then? In a worse situation than if you let him go to summer camp for a week or two (8 weeks is a too long for the first or second time), learn to live in an environment outside of parental control, where he has to make decisions and mistakes without you. Kids have to learn to deal with "bad people" (not criminally bad, mind you) eventually. Might as well start them off in small doses, and when they can talk to you about it and so you can teach them how to deal with people who are bullies, or tyrants, or just plain MEAN. Cause they WILL NOT be able to avoid them forever.

It makes me sad to see how many mothers have been made fearful of the world at large, perhaps by a media system that reports unending loops of horror stories. Yes, bad things happen. I get that. But the true likelihood of your child being molested at camp, when millions of children attend every summer, is mind boggling low. There's statistically probably a greater chance of them dying on the commute to school or being struck by lightning. It just seems like such a shame to keep kids from the pure joy and very serious benefits (in terms of maturation) of attending summer camp.

I understand parents vary, but for me, it falls into the helicopter parenting that I (as a NON parent) see as extremely counter-productive, as Gypsy explained so well. I did camp from grades 3-9, and then was a counselor for the following 3 years, with no hint of issues during those times. Imagine if every child associated with my program hadn't experienced it "just in case" something bad might have happened during that time period.

 

[Gypsy]

It is helicopter parenting ginger. And it does your kids no favors.

For me parents like that can't see the forest for the trees. They protect their kids as children so much that those kids never learn how to be adults... and suddenly there they are adults in years, but not experience. And that's a horrible way to be.

Your job as a parent isn't to protect your child from new experiences, shield them from reality, and keep them safe from life itself so that they only learn to exist. You can't and you shouldn't even try.

Your job is to guide them... to expose them to new experiences while you supervise less and less as they grow, to show them what reality is and that they don't have to be afraid of it... give them the confidence they need so they can deal with reality without anxiety meds, a shrink, or alcohol. It's to show them how to live, and live well.

 

[Gypsy]

I started going as a child at the age of 12.

I forgot to add, I was allowed to fly alone to the same camp at the age of 13. I ended up fine, and am very responsible. The freedom was important for my development. To this day, flying alone is not a big deal. I only fear flying with small children

Another thing I was allowed to do. At 10 I visiting my aunts in the summers. Flew alone, had the supervision of flight attendants. Nothing happened. And if my mother had been on the plane with me and something went wrong... its not like she could fly the thing. She would have died along side me. Big help!

 

[charleston1]

I think the chances of being molested at camp are very low compared to being molested by a relative/neighbour/family friend/coach.

I went to camp as a kid and sent my kids to camp. A friend of mine was horrified and mentioned the camp re: molester fear (she did not go to camp as a child). I tried to explain to her that at camp you are never alone with one other person. You are together with your cabinmates 24/7.

Of course it is not impossible for it to happen; however, I do not remember ever being alone with someone older at camp. The only time you were not with all your cabinmates as if you had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. However, you were not allowed to go alone, you had a buddy that was one of your cabinmates the same age as you.

 

[Gypsy]

Oh. And FWIW.

Overprotected me. No sleep overs, no walking to school truly alone, 8pm curfew, no camp. Safe from child molestation??? Wrapped in my cocoon by my mother?

You'd think so. But you'd be wrong.

Guess what? I was 15 and my uncle's best friend (30 something) picked me up after school one day cause no one else could make it, and I wasn't allowed to take the bus. He had kids of his own. Including a daughter that was 3. Perfectly safe, right?

He hit on me.... took the 'long way home' including an alley. Put his hand on my knee, kept it there and slid it up to my upper thigh under the top of my shorts. Told me how much I'd grown and how pretty I was. And tried to kiss me, I turned my head. Thank god for school programs about getting away from assailants (we had rape/ self defense education in 8th and 9th grade). I sat there terrified in the car until we came to a stop sign, whereupon I took the opportunity offered and unlocked the door, and jumped out of the car, and started running home.

I got home, pretended to wave to him and said goodbye (there was no one there) and went in the house, told my grandparents that he had plans and couldn't stay for dinner. I did not tell anyone. Ashamed and scared I avoided him like the plague. No one noticed. Until a year later when someone was inviting him to something I could not get out of. When I finally told my mom. And she of course, handled it.

Those of you who are so worried about child molestation. I'd be interested to see how many kids get molested by people their parents know and trust, rather than strangers at camp. Frankly, I bet that you guys would be horrified at the stats.

You can't protect your kids from everything. Not even the 'very bad'. But you CAN prepare them for it, and you should. But hiding them away and wrapping them in cotton isn't the way to do it.

Even Eden had a snake. And innocence did not mean safety for Adam or Eve. In fact, it was their downfall because they had no idea what evil was, or how to deal with it when confronted with it. Now imagine if instead of keeping them ignorant and childlike God had told them the truth, explained why the tree was bad (instead of telling them to avoid it), and prepared them for how to deal with evil? I bet they would have sent that snake packing. Avoidance is not preparation. You can teach your kids to avoid bad people all you want. Unless they are agoraphobic they aren't going to be successful. And they aren't always going to know who is 'bad' until it is too late. And frankly, if you keep them away from bad people, how will they know what to avoid? How to spot the warning signs? How to trust their gut when it tells them that something is wrong and they need to get away? They won't know. You're just leaving them vulnerable, unprepared... and you might as well paint a target on their backs.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I was overprotected as a child. Severely over-protected. When I was 12 I was finally allowed to walk to and from school (6 blocks). My grandfather would follow me, as I walked, in the car. Kid you not. It was embarrassing and polarizing. I was 17 before I was allowed to go to summer camp (as a camp counselor). And I was 17 before I was allowed to have a sleep over.

If I wanted a pair of shoes, three people offered an opinion. My mother was (without cause) completely worried about my arches. Wasn't allowed to buy shoes alone, or clothes. Every time I did the minute I walked in the house I was told in detail all the mistakes I'd made (that shade doesn't look good on you-- The horror! That style is a fad, it won't last!), forced to return the stuff and buy what the adults "knew" was a better choice. After a while it wasn't worth it to try anymore. They broke me. Either I was so scared of making the wrong choice I couldn't chose between a pink or blue sweater and had an anxiety attack (real). Or I'd just wait till my mom had time and she could pick it all out (obedient zombie). I wanted to play the flute... my mother had heard an old wives tale that it deforms your lips. No flute. I can't tell you the sheer number of fears my family instilled in me. Violins will give you calluses! OH NO!! Can't have calluses! Choir. That I was allowed to do. Except all my friends were in other music classes. And I knew no one in choice. Did it matter? No. It was the "right" choice.

And OMG, does it affect your socialization and your comfort level with your peers. And once you hit college... it cripples you.

I saw a LOT of overprotected kids with terrible instincts-- either completely wild since they were free for the first time to make decisions for themselves, and making terrible decisions. Or completely afraid of everything and unable to make a decision for themselves without calling home; crippled.

I was in the mix of both . No middle ground. I fluctuated between wild rebellion and fear. It was awful not know how to make decisions for myself as a 20 year old. I had no confidence and my much wilier peers took advantage of that, often. So honestly, did my bosses. And my co-workers. I had a verbally abusive boss at 22. NO IDEA how to handle it. Every time before that if someone bullied me, I called my mom. Guess what? You can't call your MOM on your boss. You have to deal with it yourself. And you have no idea how. So either you quit, or take the abuse. Either way... bad.

I can tell you that the best thing you can do is to trust your kids and trust yourself (trust but verify) once they hit grade school, with growing responsibilities... and some SPACE to make their own decisions so they learn to start trusting their own judgement.

Cause folks: eventually they are gonna have to do that. And you DO NOT want that to be when they are 20 and have a shiny new credit card and are in Europe for spring break... where the drinking age is 18. You want that to be when they are 11 and wanting to try goats milk, or to buy the 'wrong' shoes. Something that you can supervise... but allow them decide for themselves. So what if they try goats milk and its gross. Great. Now they know. Or they try it and love it. Great. What is the purpose of protecting them from the experience? There isn't any. So they eat a Twinkie on occasion: feed them good food 95% of the time and teach them good eating habits AND how to cook to counteract it. One Twinkie every three months isn't the bed of the world. So they buy shoes that don't match anything they own? Either they carry it off with their own unique sense of style, or they learn they prefer more classic styles. Either way? Who cares! The world isn't going to end. If your son wants a pink tu-tu...get him one. If you girl wants camo... get her some. Earth will keep spinning. And your kid will make mistakes. And then learn that it's not the end of the world when they do. And you will too. That's what you want.

My cousin's best friend committed suicide at age 20. Kid was all Ivy League. Country Club set parents. Did a lot of charity work in highschool, played sports and was generally outgoing. Why did he kill himself? He had been overprotected for so long, that when he was he went to college he finally was FORCED to make decisions for himself. Well... not surprising, he made some mistakes. Had NO IDEA how to deal with it. Couldn't handle failure, thought it was all his own fault and now he's dead.

Training wheels are good. But you gotta let go. Cut those apron strings one by one. So its gradual and before that kid is left alone on their own, they've got a history of good decisions behind them to guide them and the confidence to stick by their decisions when their peers try to talk them into stupid sh*t. And so they learn that when they make a mistake... it's OK. That they have to pick themselves up and keep going.

You can't protect them forever. You've got to teach them to protect themselves. And the solution to that is not to teach them to be afraid of everything. It's to teach them that life can be scary, but that they can handle it. To let them make decisions, and mistakes. And YES to expose them to situations that are not perfectly within your control at all times. Because you are NOT going to always be there.

Frankly you could be hit by a truck next week. Where will that leave your overprotected child then? In a worse situation than if you let him go to summer camp for a week or two (8 weeks is a too long for the first or second time), learn to live in an environment outside of parental control, where he has to make decisions and mistakes without you. Kids have to learn to deal with "bad people" (not criminally bad, mind you) eventually. Might as well start them off in small doses, and when they can talk to you about it and so you can teach them how to deal with people who are bullies, or tyrants, or just plain MEAN. Cause they WILL NOT be able to avoid them forever.

It makes me sad to see how many mothers have been made fearful of the world at large, perhaps by a media system that reports unending loops of horror stories. Yes, bad things happen. I get that. But the true likelihood of your child being molested at camp, when millions of children attend every summer, is mind boggling low. There's statistically probably a greater chance of them dying on the commute to school or being struck by lightning. It just seems like such a shame to keep kids from the pure joy and very serious benefits (in terms of maturation) of attending summer camp.

I understand parents vary, but for me, it falls into the helicopter parenting that I (as a NON parent) see as extremely counter-productive, as Gypsy explained so well. I did camp from grades 3-9, and then was a counselor for the following 3 years, with no hint of issues during those times. Imagine if every child associated with my program hadn't experienced it "just in case" something bad might have happened during that time period.

Gypsy's situation sounds rather extreme... just because some of us don't let our kids go to overnight camps, doesn't mean we keep them wrapped up in shrink wrap and inside a padded envelope of safety. I'm not trying to defend my parenting, but would like to clarify that both my kids are allowed plenty of decision making on their own and my older one can ride his bike to any of his friend's houses and he also was in an independent learning class last year (which HE asked to be put in). He's also allowed to stay home by himself, go on the internet and pick out his own clothes. The only time I say no to something is if it's insanely priced or says something inappropriate or is flat out ugly to the point of where I'd be embarrassed to walk around with them.

I would say my kids are fairly well balanced. If we're in a store and my younger son wants to find something, *HE* has to ask the sales person. The first few times he was told to do it himself, he told me he wasn't sure what to say so he asked me to do it, but I told him he has to practice so he can communicate w/people as he gets older. Now, it's becoming easier for him. He just turned 11 and is able to go into Best Buy and interact with sales people all on his own. I think that type of interaction, on a regular basis, provides a more confident kid than one that is sent off to an overnight camp for one week every summer.

 

[Maria D]

While sexual molestation crimes perpetrated by adult (or young adult) pedophile camp counselors are rare, sexual abuse perpetrated by adolescents on other adolescents is actually not rare at all. Sleep-away summer camp offers ample opportunity for this and other child-to-child abuse, as other posters have sadly explained here. Not letting your child have the overnight camp experience is not the same thing as being an over-protective helicopter parent. There are plenty of other ways to instill independence and confidence in a child.

While I'm not one that lets an overhyped media make me fearful of the world, I absolutely would not ever have allowed my child to go to a camp where she could not have called home and where any message I had for her had to be filtered through staff (sorry TooPatient). That sends up all kinds of red flags for me! I have always let my daughter know that I will be there for her whenever and wherever she needs me. That held true when she was four years-old and playing at a friends house or 16 years-old and needing a ride home for whatever reason. Far from making her feel hovered over, it helped her feel safe in venturing out in the world. Why should it be any different at a camp? If my kid needs to tell me something that she thinks is important, then she shall - without having to convince a staff member that it's an emergency.

I did allow my daughter to go to overnight camps when she expressed an interest. When she was younger, she only wanted to do day camps but at age 13 and 14 she opted to attend a couple of week-long camps. She had a reasonably good time but also complained, upon returning, that there were too many rules and too much structure. Today she's a very independent, well-adjusted young woman who is doing fine at university in a different country. I don't attribute any of that to her two weeks at overnight camp! It was about letting her grow and spread her wings at her own pace, always knowing we were there for her whenever she needed us.

 

[TooPatient]

While sexual molestation crimes perpetrated by adult (or young adult) pedophile camp counselors are rare, sexual abuse perpetrated by adolescents on other adolescents is actually not rare at all. Sleep-away summer camp offers ample opportunity for this and other child-to-child abuse, as other posters have sadly explained here. Not letting your child have the overnight camp experience is not the same thing as being an over-protective helicopter parent. There are plenty of other ways to instill independence and confidence in a child.

While I'm not one that lets an overhyped media make me fearful of the world, I absolutely would not ever have allowed my child to go to a camp where she could not have called home and where any message I had for her had to be filtered through staff (sorry TooPatient). That sends up all kinds of red flags for me! I have always let my daughter know that I will be there for her whenever and wherever she needs me. That held true when she was four years-old and playing at a friends house or 16 years-old and needing a ride home for whatever reason. Far from making her feel hovered over, it helped her feel safe in venturing out in the world. Why should it be any different at a camp? If my kid needs to tell me something that she thinks is important, then she shall - without having to convince a staff member that it's an emergency.

I did allow my daughter to go to overnight camps when she expressed an interest. When she was younger, she only wanted to do day camps but at age 13 and 14 she opted to attend a couple of week-long camps. She had a reasonably good time but also complained, upon returning, that there were too many rules and too much structure. Today she's a very independent, well-adjusted young woman who is doing fine at university in a different country. I don't attribute any of that to her two weeks at overnight camp! It was about letting her grow and spread her wings at her own pace, always knowing we were there for her whenever she needed us.

I was a bit hesitant and may feel differently if we weren't within 1 1/2 hours of the camp. The logic that was explained to me made sense and with the people they have present, we were comfortable with this arrangement. After spending months of e-mailing and calling with the staff at camp I felt okay going ahead with this. Had it not been for getting to know the staff, knowing multiple other campers, and knowing the visiting people I'm not sure what decision we would have made.

Each situation is different. Each child is different in what they are capable of handling and each parent is different in how they weigh the good and the bad. I'm very happy to watch the conversation here as so many people are trying to find that balance between independence/experiences and safety. I feel like everyone here is doing the best they can to make the best decisions to find that balance for their own kids and situations.

Quite the challenge!

 

[Gypsy]

Maria, sexual abuse that is peer on peer is well... I hate to tell you, it happened at my junior high AND at my highschool. I wasn't a victim. But I know of it happening. And even reported it once myself. Both my schools were VERY highly rated. Both in very upscale peninsula towns (same town) and many of the kids had very affluent parents. Relatively low class sizes. And not huge schools (though not small either).

It happens when you get kids together and you leave them without direct supervision. Recess, lunch time. Bathrooms, wooded areas at school, behind trees, behind the bleachers... there is opportunity everywhere. And where there is opportunity and children... sh*t happens.

I don't know of one school that has bathroom monitors whose job it is to sit in a bathroom all day and make sure that no kid is molested by a peer. Do you?

I'm not saying it is okay. But it happens. SO following the logic of some of the people in this thread (not you) ...the solution would be to home school them? Completely isolate and protect them. So what if they are never socialized, they'll be SAFE. Is that what's healthy and in the kid's best interest? No, of course not. That's silly. And it's unhealthy. And that's what I am saying. You teach them it is wrong and to report it, and how to defend themselves against it. Because it happens. You don't avoid it and shut them away and never let them out until they are adults completely unprepared for the real world.

And Maria I also agree with you that a camp that will not allow direct parent to child contact sounds dodgy. I wouldn't be okay with that. In fact I'd want a place that had several public phones standing by for the kids use and encouraged the kids to call home in teh evenings. That's judgement. And you said yourself that when your child was an early teen, you let them go to camp. That's very different than what I hear from others in this thread. What I hear is you were cautious and used common sense. Not that you were one of the helicopter parents.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MC... my situation wasn't that drastic from MY MOTHER's point of view. It didn't affect all areas, my mother's 'fears' and her protectiveness. In fact she thought she was very liberal. Why? I was allowed to drink wine with dinners starting at fourteen if I wanted to. I was allowed to date boys (supervised) starting at 14. My grandparents were immigrants and my grandmother spoke no english. So I was always interacting with shopkeepers (and I don't personally think that's a good example of 'freedom'), from a very young age, and with just about everyone else. I was NOT shy and I was a chatterbox. I was allowed to have friends over my house. And I was allowed to fly places on my own. My mother thought AND STILL THINKS that she was a very liberal mom. She was not. In fact she was insanely over protective. But if you talk to her.. to this DAY she'll just tell you she was cautious but very liberal. It's a matter of perspective. I'm sure you think you are liberal. And you may be. But just because you THINK you are... doesn't mean you are. My mom certainly wasn't. And she'll NEVER understand that.

If you ask her why she didn't allow me to pick out my own clothes. She'll tell you she did. That she just helped me do so. That she educated me on fabrics and styles and advised me, so I would learn how to dress appropriately. That's her perspective. But that's what my experience was at all.


One parent on the boards once said they rip pages out of the books their kids read. I thought to myself...that sounds like my mom. Although that parent felt they were justified. Same as my mom felt she was when she gave me an 8pm curfew in highschool.

There's also another aspect of being overprotective. Some kids rebel. In fact most will. Starting with the early teens.

There was a lot I was able to do BECAUSE my parents were confident I was obedient when I wasn't. I faked obedience very well. I wasn't allowed to walk to school or take a bus-- there was nothing I was able to do about that. But I was able to ride my bike for hours after school and on weekends. I just had to stay "within 3 blocks" or at the house of one of the neighborhood kids... well, there was no way they were going to be able to check on me at all times. And I was frequently more than a mile away without them knowing. When they thought I was two blocks away or I was at X's house... guess where I was? I lived on 23rd Ave. The Mall was on 31st. I spent every weekend at the mall from the age of 12 to14 when we moved. No one knew. That's not safe either.

They used to check up on me. I'd lie. Oh you looked for me on 24th street and 25th? I was on 21st. Or I was at Carrie's house, and my bike was in the back yard.

If my parents hadn't been so strict and had allowed me more *normal* freedoms, then they probably would have known what I was doing a whole HECK of a lot more often.Because I could have trusted them and been honest with them. And I wouldn't have been sneaking around from the age of 12 with NO cell phone, and no one knowing where I was much of the time.

But they didn't trust me. So I didn't trust my parents. It's a two way street. And all they did was teach me that I had to learn to lie better. And not get caught.

I had stashes of clothes that were "not approved"... not racy or anything like that. Just things I liked that I enjoyed that my parents didn't like. There was one whole month when I was 14 where I would come to school in one thing, change out of it, and just wear one of two pairs of ripped jeans (Not allowed! The HORROR, people will think we can't afford better!) and various tie dye shirts (also not allowed, my grandmother hated them) instead. Then change out of it when it was time to go home. My friend used to take them home with her and wash them for me. I wore the same two pairs of jeans and three shirts for a month. Then off an on the rest of the year.

My parents know none of this to this day. If you suffocate your kids. Well... they might find ways to hoard independence. I certainly did.

 

[Gypsy]

Having not read any of the responses, when can they start? Is 14 months too young? And where does one find these camps? Also, exactly how long can they stay?

LOL!!! *HUGS FOR MONNIE!*

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Maria, sexual abuse that is peer on peer is well... I hate to tell you, it happened at my junior high AND at my highschool. I wasn't a victim. But I know of it happening. And even reported it once myself. Both my schools were VERY highly rated. Both in very upscale peninsula towns (same town) and many of the kids had very affluent parents. Relatively low class sizes. And not huge schools (though not small either).

It happens when you get kids together and you leave them without direct supervision. Recess, lunch time. Bathrooms, wooded areas at school, behind trees, behind the bleachers... there is opportunity everywhere. And where there is opportunity and children... sh*t happens.

I don't know of one school that has bathroom monitors whose job it is to sit in a bathroom all day and make sure that no kid is molested by a peer. Do you?

I'm not saying it is okay. But it happens. SO following the logic of some of the people in this thread (not you) ...the solution would be to home school them? Completely isolate and protect them. So what if they are never socialized, they'll be SAFE. Is that what's healthy and in the kid's best interest? No, of course not. That's silly. And it's unhealthy. And that's what I am saying. You teach them it is wrong and to report it, and how to defend themselves against it. Because it happens. You don't avoid it and shut them away and never let them out until they are adults completely unprepared for the real world.

And Maria I also agree with you that a camp that will not allow direct parent to child contact sounds dodgy. I wouldn't be okay with that. In fact I'd want a place that had several public phones standing by for the kids use and encouraged the kids to call home in teh evenings. That's judgement. And you said yourself that when your child was an early teen, you let them go to camp. That's very different than what I hear from others in this thread. What I hear is you were cautious and used common sense. Not that you were one of the helicopter parents.
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MC... my situation wasn't that drastic from MY MOTHER's point of view. It didn't affect all areas, my mother's 'fears' and her protectiveness. In fact she thought she was very liberal. Why? I was allowed to drink wine with dinners starting at fourteen if I wanted to. I was allowed to date boys (supervised) starting at 14. My grandparents were immigrants and my grandmother spoke no english. So I was always interacting with shopkeepers (and I don't personally think that's a good example of 'freedom'), from a very young age, and with just about everyone else. I was NOT shy and I was a chatterbox. I was allowed to have friends over my house. And I was allowed to fly places on my own. My mother thought AND STILL THINKS that she was a very liberal mom. She was not. In fact she was insanely over protective. But if you talk to her.. to this DAY she'll just tell you she was cautious but very liberal. It's a matter of perspective. I'm sure you think you are liberal. And you may be. But just because you THINK you are... doesn't mean you are. My mom certainly wasn't. And she'll NEVER understand that.

If you ask her why she didn't allow me to pick out my own clothes. She'll tell you she did. That she just helped me do so. That she educated me on fabrics and styles and advised me, so I would learn how to dress appropriately. That's her perspective. But that's what my experience was at all.


One parent on the boards once said they rip pages out of the books their kids read. I thought to myself...that sounds like my mom. Although that parent felt they were justified. Same as my mom felt she was when she gave me an 8pm curfew in highschool.

There's also another aspect of being overprotective. Some kids rebel. In fact most will. Starting with the early teens.

There was a lot I was able to do BECAUSE my parents were confident I was obedient when I wasn't. I faked obedience very well. I wasn't allowed to walk to school or take a bus-- there was nothing I was able to do about that. But I was able to ride my bike for hours after school and on weekends. I just had to stay "within 3 blocks" or at the house of one of the neighborhood kids... well, there was no way they were going to be able to check on me at all times. And I was frequently more than a mile away without them knowing. When they thought I was two blocks away or I was at X's house... guess where I was? I lived on 23rd Ave. The Mall was on 31st. I spent every weekend at the mall from the age of 12 to14 when we moved. No one knew. That's not safe either.

They used to check up on me. I'd lie. Oh you looked for me on 24th street and 25th? I was on 21st. Or I was at Carrie's house, and my bike was in the back yard.

If my parents hadn't been so strict and had allowed me more *normal* freedoms, then they probably would have known what I was doing a whole HECK of a lot more often.Because I could have trusted them and been honest with them. And I wouldn't have been sneaking around from the age of 12 with NO cell phone, and no one knowing where I was much of the time.

But they didn't trust me. So I didn't trust my parents. It's a two way street. And all they did was teach me that I had to learn to lie better. And not get caught.

I had stashes of clothes that were "not approved"... not racy or anything like that. Just things I liked that I enjoyed that my parents didn't like. There was one whole month when I was 14 where I would come to school in one thing, change out of it, and just wear one of two pairs of ripped jeans (Not allowed! The HORROR, people will think we can't afford better!) and various tie dye shirts (also not allowed, my grandmother hated them) instead. Then change out of it when it was time to go home. My friend used to take them home with her and wash them for me. I wore the same two pairs of jeans and three shirts for a month. Then off an on the rest of the year.

My parents know none of this to this day. If you suffocate your kids. Well... they might find ways to hoard independence. I certainly did.

Gypsy - this is kind of two-fold ironic...my mom was the same way to me that she told me what to wear (because it was more durable), what to think, what to be interested in (I should have the same hobbies as her), and she ALSO was raised in a very controlling environment and use to change out of the clothes her mom picked out and wore other clothes at school and then changed back. She ended up dropping out of high school and ran away to the US (from Canada). We might have the same mom! lol

My situation was my mom expected me to do as she said. When I finally put my foot down, she quit talking to me. We didn't talk for many years and I tracked her down a bit over a year ago and she started back up. I'm 40 years old and have two pre-teen boys and she started emailing me lists of ideas of how to take care of my kids! As if I hadn't figured out by now how to take care of them. She would become angry that we didn't take the kids out of school and move to live with her in Europe.

I don't think I'm liberal...I am in the middle. I don't like to buy fast food for my kids, but I let them watch movies they probably shouldn't. We're a bit all over the place based on the circumstances.

And, re: peer abuse, the definition is based on the age difference between the kids and if one kid has more dominant role over another. The reason I know is because my son told me a kid flashed him. Then it happened again. I freaked out and was wondering if I should call the police or what, but I read that this happens and it's not always abuse (but it just says, "YUCK" to me and once my son waited two years to tell me, so I wasn't sure what to do...) I remember this happening to me when I was a kid and my parents called the police on the boy.