Does this blue sapphire look okay?

[badabling]

I’m considering this unheated blue Saphhire but am totally new to this game and I’m unsure if it’s a good stone. The entire transaction is done online and it is not returnable since it’s from Sri Lanka and it’s complicated trying to return the stone.

I love the color (at least what I perceive it as…a vivid blue…little darker than a cornflower), looks relatively clean to me but I know close to nothing about clarity, I like the shape and size but I’m a little worried the stone is facing up small for a 3.6 carat and it’s a very bottom heavy stone. Am I correct in assuming that?

I don’t know how to post a video so I’ve posted some screenshots of the stone from the video.

 

[chrono]

I would not risk international purchases where it is non-returnable unless it is something under $500. What is your level of risk?

 

[Rfisher]

If it’s not a blue-blue will you be disappointed?
(It looks really purple in the lab report picture on my monitor, it could be a shifter)
If it’s not as vivid as you consider it to be will you be disappointed?
If its wavy/wonky and it can’t be easily set to look straight, will you be disappointed?
If it’s not surface nick/natural free will you be disappointed?
Will you be disappointed in the long run with its face up size?
Will that tilt window bother you?
Will that extinction pattern bother you?

Do those answers change if it’s a ‘good stone’
1000/carat?
500/carat?
100/carat?

If it’s a total dud to your eye once in hand - how much does the loss of cash (that it does cost) bother you?

Have you researched the lab that did the report?

 

[Avondale]

Upload the video to imgur and then use insert -> media -> paste the link -> PS will do the rest automatically.

It is fat bottomed, indeed. While that's somewhat common, depending on the cutting of the pavilion it could also make setting the stone a bit challenging. For example, in the first tweezers photo it seems to have an off centre culet. Best to acquire detailed video and show it to your jeweller. Aside from that, just pay more attention to the face up measurements when judging the price and your own size preference.

The colour is very pretty if it's true to life. Often these photos and videos are captured with phones, and phones aren't the best for colour accuracy. Furthermore, many phones tend to oversaturate the blue (because people like blue skies in their photos). So keep in mind the saturation might not be as strong. You can ask if the stone exhibits red fluorescence and if it shifts to violet in warm light.

Here are the things I'm concerned about:

1. The lab. I've seen certificates from this lab before, and I've noticed that their treatment identification isn't always stated in full. For example, I've seen a ruby be identified as "standard heat" when standard heat in that part of the world means heat with residues. However, neither the residues nor their quantity were mentioned.

2. This is a Thai lab, the report card is literally from today, yet your vendor is in Sri Lanka? I'm confused.

3. There's obviously missing information about the stone that the vendor has not provided to you. I can't say I'm surprised. It seems to be a culture thing with that part of the world. Where in the west you'd expect full disclosure, buying closer to the source will often times get you a vendor who understates the stone's flaws and if possible avoids the discussion altogether.

Overall, it very much depends on the money you'll be spending and if you can afford to waste them on a bad purchase. I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're considering this stone because it's more affordable compared to what you might be quoted locally. The things is, this difference in price isn't only due to the location. You can be 100% confident that such a stone has flaws that justify the lower price. So you also have to decide for yourself if you accept that, if you're willing to compromise with certain qualities of the stone, in order to get more carat for your buck.

 

[LilAlex]

All good thoughts above. It is included, it is not precision-cut, there is some color-zoning or extinction in the forceps photo, it is a little over-deep (by dimensions alone), perhaps a little asymmetric in the outline, the color may differ a great deal from the photos/videos you were given, and the report is not from a strong lab.

All that said, it could be a solid value for an unheated, pleasant stone. The value-for-the-money math is complicated by how faithful the documentation is (does it really look like that?) and an inability to return it or an enormous "energy hill" to return it (if that is the case). I do not know how to weigh those last two factors but they would make a big difference to me (i.e., I would probably pay at least twice as much to know for sure that the images were representative and the stone could be returned). Then again, I have never bought a gem or piece of jewelry via mail that was not returnable.

 

[badabling]

Upload the video to imgur and then use insert -> media -> paste the link -> PS will do the rest automatically.

It is fat bottomed, indeed. While that's somewhat common, depending on the cutting of the pavilion it could also make setting the stone a bit challenging. For example, in the first tweezers photo it seems to have an off centre culet. Best to acquire detailed video and show it to your jeweller. Aside from that, just pay more attention to the face up measurements when judging the price and your own size preference.

The colour is very pretty if it's true to life. Often these photos and videos are captured with phones, and phones aren't the best for colour accuracy. Furthermore, many phones tend to oversaturate the blue (because people like blue skies in their photos). So keep in mind the saturation might not be as strong. You can ask if the stone exhibits red fluorescence and if it shifts to violet in warm light.

Here are the things I'm concerned about:

1. The lab. I've seen certificates from this lab before, and I've noticed that their treatment identification isn't always stated in full. For example, I've seen a ruby be identified as "standard heat" when standard heat in that part of the world means heat with residues. However, neither the residues nor their quantity were mentioned.

2. This is a Thai lab, the report card is literally from today, yet your vendor is in Sri Lanka? I'm confused.

3. There's obviously missing information about the stone that the vendor has not provided to you. I can't say I'm surprised. It seems to be a culture thing with that part of the world. Where in the west you'd expect full disclosure, buying closer to the source will often times get you a vendor who understates the stone's flaws and if possible avoids the discussion altogether.

Overall, it very much depends on the money you'll be spending and if you can afford to waste them on a bad purchase. I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're considering this stone because it's more affordable compared to what you might be quoted locally. The things is, this difference in price isn't only due to the location. You can be 100% confident that such a stone has flaws that justify the lower price. So you also have to decide for yourself if you accept that, if you're willing to compromise with certain qualities of the stone, in order to get more carat for your buck.

Thank you everyone for your comments and feedback! I realize there are so many things I didn’t even consider.

I’ve added the link to the videos…total noob here so I hope it works

https://imgur.com/a/iQ2VIP2

I don’t know the lab except it is in Thailand since the seller is in Thailand right now. I asked for a certificate and that is what he got. What other information should I ask for…he says it’s clean except for a feather.

Please let me if the stone looks alright in the video. I would like a vivid blue and definitely not a color change stone. I value all the comments and feedback. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

 

[Avondale]

The link works, yeah. We can see both videos.

Okay. First on colour. There's no way you can be certain what the stone will look like to your eyes until you receive it. Just to illustrate, I will show you an example of my own.

I bought this ring preloved from another PSer. She had posted a wide array of photos displaying the stone in various conditions, and I knew what I was buying. I love this ring to bits. I'm showing it just because it's an excellent example of how cameras treat blues.

The first image is from the original owner. The second is from me, unedited, straight out of the camera. And the third is an image that I colour corrected to look as close as possible to what I see with my eyes.



Oh, it's also a colour shifter.

While we're on colour, the first video shows quite distinctive colour zoning, right here:



Typically you'd expect the vendor to point it out for you. But when you're buying from Sri Lanka, you get a video and are left to figure it out on your own.

You see, you're told that the stone is clean except for a feather. First of all, what I see here:



Looks more like a fingerprint than a feather. I'm not sure if I'm seeing something in the top right corner of the stone in the first video. In any case, many things could be visible in the videos and photos you receive, but only recognisable after you know to look for them, meaning, after you have the stone in your hands and have examined it yourself.

The cutting is definitely not ideal. The off centre culet is a huge pet peeve for me, although many people don't mind and don't notice it. The shadowing it shows is also a bit... eh.

Regarding the certificate, the main risk is the stone being actually heated. Paying untreated prices for a heated stone is obviously not okay.

All in all, my advice would be to first decide what you want and what you can compromise on. Are you bothered by inclusions? Are you bothered by imperfect cutting? Will you be vastly disappointed if the colour is not as saturated as you see in the video? If your answer is yes, you might want to consider passing on this sapphire, or you run the risk of being disappointed with it and feeling like you've wasted your money.

My personal opinion is that I would pass on it. If I'm after a 3+ct saturated blue unheated sapphire, I'd rather go down in size a bit to accommodate my budget and would buy from someone I know and trust. Yes, I would pay more per carat, but I'd know what I'm getting and I'd be satisfied with it. Some purchases are low stakes, you can afford to take the risk there. But it doesn't seem like this one is one of those.

 

[badabling]

The vendor sent another video of another stone. Please let me know if this looks more promising. It is uncerted right now but he says he can send it to the same lab. He says GRS and GIA will take too long and GCI lab will certify immediately and that is why he gives it to that lab.

https://imgur.com/a/vGsjFlG

4.62ct
8.74x8.8x6.2mm

Both stones are unheated and price point is $2500 - $3000@carat. He says it is negotiable once I decide on the stone.

 

[badabling]

The link works, yeah. We can see both videos.

Okay. First on colour. There's no way you can be certain what the stone will look like to your eyes until you receive it. Just to illustrate, I will show you an example of my own.

I bought this ring preloved from another PSer. She had posted a wide array of photos displaying the stone in various conditions, and I knew what I was buying. I love this ring to bits. I'm showing it just because it's an excellent example of how cameras treat blues.

The first image is from the original owner. The second is from me, unedited, straight out of the camera. And the third is an image that I colour corrected to look as close as possible to what I see with my eyes.



Oh, it's also a colour shifter.

While we're on colour, the first video shows quite distinctive colour zoning, right here:



Typically you'd expect the vendor to point it out for you. But when you're buying from Sri Lanka, you get a video and are left to figure it out on your own.

You see, you're told that the stone is clean except for a feather. First of all, what I see here:



Looks more like a fingerprint than a feather. I'm not sure if I'm seeing something in the top right corner of the stone in the first video. In any case, many things could be visible in the videos and photos you receive, but only recognisable after you know to look for them, meaning, after you have the stone in your hands and have examined it yourself.

The cutting is definitely not ideal. The off centre culet is a huge pet peeve for me, although many people don't mind and don't notice it. The shadowing it shows is also a bit... eh.

Regarding the certificate, the main risk is the stone being actually heated. Paying untreated prices for a heated stone is obviously not okay.

All in all, my advice would be to first decide what you want and what you can compromise on. Are you bothered by inclusions? Are you bothered by imperfect cutting? Will you be vastly disappointed if the colour is not as saturated as you see in the video? If your answer is yes, you might want to consider passing on this sapphire, or you run the risk of being disappointed with it and feeling like you've wasted your money.

My personal opinion is that I would pass on it. If I'm after a 3+ct saturated blue unheated sapphire, I'd rather go down in size a bit to accommodate my budget and would buy from someone I know and trust. Yes, I would pay more per carat, but I'd know what I'm getting and I'd be satisfied with it. Some purchases are low stakes, you can afford to take the risk there. But it doesn't seem like this one is one of those.

Thank you so so much for your detailed response!!

I see these videos but I’m not even sure what to look for. I’ve seen sapphires through a loupe but being untrained I’m not sure what I’m looking at. I don’t know if it’s correct but I check for color zoning by putting the stone over incandescent light….I think I saw that in some YouTube video.

I was in Sri Lanka recently and you’re right the sellers never say much about the stone. It’s way cheaper than in the US or even Thailand but again I guess you are paying for the peace of mind and full disclosure when buying from those countries. Most of the stones in Sri Lanka were not certified but the vendors would arrange to get it done.

The wonky culet does not bother me as much because I don’t notice it once it’s set. I do like the color I’m seeing in the video but I won’t be too upset if it’s a tad lighter than the video because in my experience the stones always look darker on iPhone cameras.

But as you rightly pointed out my main issue would be paying the price of an unheated stone for a heated stone. I was hoping that the certificate would eliminate that doubt and especially since it was just certified (I’ve heard stories of vendors heating the stone after the certification). Would these labs really certify a heated stone as an unheated one? I’m appalled if that is the case but I guess in this part of the world it is completely possible.

Please do take a look at the video of second stone when you get a chance and I would really appreciate your feedback. I find your comments very insightful and it’s definitely helping me make a decision.

Also as a side note, I met the vendor when I was in Sri Lanka and had a good feeling about him and he came through the reference of a family friend. While he seems honest he didn’t seem too knowledgeable about the stones but now that you mention it maybe it’s like you mentioned they say very little about the stone and expect you to do the questioning.

 

[Avondale]

Would these labs really certify a heated stone as an unheated one? I’m appalled if that is the case but I guess in this part of the world it is completely possible.

Some labs would. Whether this one is one of those labs, I cannot say, I don't know enough. What I do know is that one etsy vendor operating in Bangkok occasionally uses this lab for their stones. I've bought from them once and a couple of other PSers have purchased as well. They seem to have a solid reputation and the shopping experience was mostly positive, so perhaps the lab isn't a total dud. I've also seen other gem dealers provide reports from this lab, but I'm not familiar with them, it's just an observation I've made while browsing.

The thing is, since the gem trade is so prominent in Asia, there's a great number of small local labs there of which we here have heard very little. Some are respected locally and the main concern is their ability to identify less common treatments and ones that can be more difficult to identify. An unheated sapphire should be fairly straightforward to identify for an experienced eye, and the colour zoning basically guarantees the stone isn't synthetic.

With the price per carat you've been quoted, the stone you're considering falls into the 5-figure range. To spend so much knowing you won't be able to return it if something goes wrong? I don't know... Furthermore, have you considered what happens if the sapphire is damaged during shipping or lost? Do you have a secure way to get your money back?

As for the second stone, if what you're looking for is a bright, open colour, this one will disappoint. I find these sapphires to be amazingly beautiful, but they're not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[badabling]

Some labs would. Whether this one is one of those labs, I cannot say, I don't know enough. What I do know is that one etsy vendor operating in Bangkok occasionally uses this lab for their stones. I've bought from them once and a couple of other PSers have purchased as well. They seem to have a solid reputation and the shopping experience was mostly positive, so perhaps the lab isn't a total dud. I've also seen other gem dealers provide reports from this lab, but I'm not familiar with them, it's just an observation I've made while browsing.

The thing is, since the gem trade is so prominent in Asia, there's a great number of small local labs there of which we here have heard very little. Some are respected locally and the main concern is their ability to identify less common treatments and ones that can be more difficult to identify. An unheated sapphire should be fairly straightforward to identify for an experienced eye, and the colour zoning basically guarantees the stone isn't synthetic.

With the price per carat you've been quoted, the stone you're considering falls into the 5-figure range. To spend so much knowing you won't be able to return it if something goes wrong? I don't know... Furthermore, have you considered what happens if the sapphire is damaged during shipping or lost? Do you have a secure way to get your money back?

As for the second stone, if what you're looking for is a bright, open colour, this one will disappoint. I find these sapphires to be amazingly beautiful, but they're not everyone's cup of tea.

Thank so much…I took your advice and decided not to pull the trigger. It’s too much money to risk on a stone that I haven’t seen even though I’ve bought from the seller and he has an idea of the kind of color I’m looking for. I’ll just wait until I can make a trip to Sri Lanka again which isn’t too far from where I live. I loved the country and would love to visit the again.

Thank you everyone else on this forum that knocked some sense into me!

 

[Avondale]

I’ll just wait until I can make a trip to Sri Lanka again which isn’t too far from where I live. I loved the country and would love to visit the again.

Honestly, that sounds like one hell of a plan. Going on a gem shopping vacation? Yes please!

Just make sure to research the available labs. Here's a little bit of something from a knowledgeable fellow PSer: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-best-gem-labs.272578/#post-5106983

For this price, you deserve to have your stone certified by a lab and to be sure of it being natural and untreated.